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Re: Individual Names RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old

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  • amiak27
    As I have encountered similar village names or variations on the names (as in Zavodie, Zavoda, Zavode; Sulin SzepesSzulin and even Lepesszulin) I have made a
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 9, 2006
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      As I have encountered similar village names or variations on the names
      (as in Zavodie, Zavoda, Zavode; Sulin SzepesSzulin and even
      Lepesszulin) I have made a note on one of my spreadsheets clarifying
      the differences and my conclusions so others will not run through the
      same confusion that I may have encountered. Some months ago that
      helped me clear up confusion one person on the internet was having in
      trying to nail down "Zavoda".
      Oh, I also record names as presented in the original document. How
      else can someone recognize the original when they see it?

      Ron

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Joe Q." <DoctorQ@...> wrote:
      >
      > Or put another way:
      >
      > I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I
      am > not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
      >
      > ;-)
      >
      > Dr. "Q"
      >
      >> >and include the modern day equivalent Jan = John, Alzbeta =
      Elizabeth, etc.
      > >
      > >Dr. "Q"
    • Alan Antoska
      There are basically 2 questions. 1 Who is the target audience of our research/family tree and how best to present information for their consumption? 2 Should
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 9, 2006
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        There are basically 2 questions.

        1 Who is the target audience of our research/family tree
        and how best to present information for their consumption?

        2 Should we as researchers record history exactly as we
        find it or may we interpret and modify it in the process of
        transfer to a digital format?

        Your answers to these 2 questions will also determine your
        response to "place names - modern or old?"
        ahoj

        Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
      • Vladimir Bohinc
        For my work I adopted following conventions: 1. For all persons born here I use names as they were used in the family. 2. For place names I use current place
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 9, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          For my work I adopted following conventions:
          1. For all persons born here I use names as they were used in the family.
          2. For place names I use current place names.
          All variations of names and place names can be explained in "additional information".
          The probability, that someone will go and re- research the whole thing is rather theoretical. If so, he will have to learn all the variations.
          Vladimir


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Alan Antoska
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:01 AM
          Subject: Re: Individual Names RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old


          There are basically 2 questions.

          1 Who is the target audience of our research/family tree
          and how best to present information for their consumption?

          2 Should we as researchers record history exactly as we
          find it or may we interpret and modify it in the process of
          transfer to a digital format?

          Your answers to these 2 questions will also determine your
          response to "place names - modern or old?"
          ahoj

          Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com




          __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.1698 (20060808) __________

          Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
          http://www.eset.sk


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • frank.r.plichta@earthlink.net
          When I read what you wrote, I thought I understood what you meant but apparently you did not intend it to perceived the way that I did. ... From:
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 10, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            When I read what you wrote, I thought I understood what you meant but
            apparently you did not intend it to perceived the way that I did.

            :-) Frank

            -----Original Message-----
            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Dr. Joe Q.
            Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:10 PM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: Individual Names RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old

            Or put another way:

            I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am
            not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

            ;-)

            Dr. "Q"

            Frank R. Plichta wrote:

            >OK, so you change the names of your Slovak ancestors to the English
            >equivalent. What does that do for your modern day Slovak relatives. To
            >them the ancestor was still Jan not John. Everything does not need to be
            >translated to English.
            >
            >In my family tree, I'm communicating with relatives in Germany, Czech,
            >Slovakia, Australia and Poland as well as the USA. Which language do you
            >want me to record the first names of relatives? I beg to differ with Dr.Q
            >for I will continue to record names in the language native to the
            >ancestor/relative for that is what they were called in during their life.
            >They were never known by he English equalivant.
            >
            >Frank Plichta
            >Galax, Virginia
            >
            >-----Original Message-----
            >From: Dr. Joe Q. [mailto:DoctorQ@...]
            >Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:18 PM
            >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
            >
            >My relatives and probably those of most of everyone else on this list
            >did not move much in the old country. At the moment, there are three
            >(3) towns for sure that mine came from and possibly a fourth for my
            >2xgreat grandfather. It isn't much of a chore to list all of the
            >various names of the towns and I have done that, but the names are more
            >of a curiosity for future generations. However, I am certain that in 40
            >years all that is necessary for someone to is enter their best guess of
            >the family name and general geographic location into what ever replaces
            >this rudimentary information system - internet - and fuzzy logic will
            >provide the best answer along with several other potential answers. I
            >think the resources will be there.
            >
            >I do include the spellings of the names as they appear in the records
            >and include the modern day equivalent Jan = John, Alzbeta = Elizabeth,
            etc.
            >
            >Dr. "Q"
            >
            >Bill Tarkulich wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            >>Hello "Q",
            >>
            >>The problem with "resources" is that they may not be in your control.
            >>External resources may or may not be accessible in a form you might expect
            >>20 years from now. In five years, I have seen several references come and
            >>go. That's one reason I make a private copy of any web resource I find
            >>helpful.
            >>
            >>I think it's simpler to put the three to six most common names into a
            >>cross-reference document and include it with your family trees.
            >>
            >>Bill
            >>
            >>On Tue, August 8, 2006 12:03 am, Dr. Joe Q. said:
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>>Cute!
            >>>
            >>>It is important to have the continuity of the various names over the
            >>>ages, however, one can become compulsive in the process. I think that
            >>>for the future generations, that the various Hungarian, German,
            >>>Czechoslovak, and Slovak names will be easy to identify and correlate.
            >>>Spisska Nova Ves was Iglo. Enter "Iglo Slovakia" into google and you
            >>>will get hits with Spisska Nova Ves and Iglo. I do not think that any
            >>>grand children will be at a disadvantage if you do not include all of
            >>>names of a town from 1835 to 1920/1990. Of course there is no harm in
            >>>doing so, but I feel that in most cases it is no longer necessary. You
            >>>can provide the 25+ names of a town from 1200 - 1990, but from a
            >>>practical standpoint, there are plenty of online resources now. What do
            >>>you anticipate those resources to be in 20 - 40 years?
            >>>
            >>>Just my thoughts.
            >>>
            >>>Dr. "Q"
            >>>
            >>>Gordon L. Grening wrote:
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>>Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
            >>>>Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!
            >>>>
            >>>>Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR
            >>>>has
            >>>>a web site.
            >>>>
            >>>>Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave
            if
            >>>>I
            >>>>said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from
            >>>>what
            >>>>I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think
            >>>>they
            >>>>were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
            >>>>
            >>>>----- Original Message -----
            >>>>From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
            >>>>To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
            >>>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
            >>>>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that
            >>>>the
            >>>>event took place.
            >>>>
            >>>>I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
            >>>>individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If
            >>>>you
            >>>>are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a
            >>>>separate
            >>>>"Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
            >>>>interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
            >>>>needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the
            >>>>Family
            >>>>Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them
            to
            >>>>learn a little more about history.
            >>>>
            >>>>Frank Plichta
            >>>>Galax, Virginia
            >>>>
            >>>>-----Original Message-----
            >>>>From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
            >>>>On
            >>>>Behalf Of Gordon Grening
            >>>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
            >>>>To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            >>>>Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
            >>>>
            >>>>I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
            >>>>in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
            >>>>actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
            >>>>and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
            >>>>put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??
            >>>>
            >>>>The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from ©ari¹,
            >>>>which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Pre¹ov region.
            >>>>Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
            >>>>German. So what name do I use.
            >>>>
            >>>>Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
            >>>>great-grandparents as being born in ©ari¹, Slovakia. But would
            >>>>Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
            >>>>are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
            >>>>any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?
            >>>>
            >>>>I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
            >>>>came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
            >>>>Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
            >>>>names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
            >>>>name.
            >>>>
            >>>>With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
            >>>>become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
            >>>>family trees on various database using different birth place names
            >>>>for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
            >>>>naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
            >>>>spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
            >>>>Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
            >>>>the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
            >>>>traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
            >>>>the name.
            >>>>



            To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
            SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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          • GoSlovakia@aol.com
            ... From: frank.r.plichta@earthlink.net To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 8:51 AM Subject: RE: Individual Names RE: [S-R] Place Names -
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 10, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              -----Original Message-----
              From: frank.r.plichta@...
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 8:51 AM
              Subject: RE: Individual Names RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old


              When I read what you wrote, I thought I understood what you meant but
              apparently you did not intend it to perceived the way that I did.

              :-) Frank

              -----Original Message-----
              From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Dr. Joe Q.
              Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:10 PM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: Individual Names RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old

              Or put another way:

              I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am
              not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

              ;-)

              Dr. "Q"

              Frank R. Plichta wrote:

              >OK, so you change the names of your Slovak ancestors to the English
              >equivalent. What does that do for your modern day Slovak relatives. To
              >them the ancestor was still Jan not John. Everything does not need to be
              >translated to English.
              >
              >In my family tree, I'm communicating with relatives in Germany, Czech,
              >Slovakia, Australia and Poland as well as the USA. Which language do you
              >want me to record the first names of relatives? I beg to differ with Dr.Q
              >for I will continue to record names in the language native to the
              >ancestor/relative for that is what they were called in during their life.
              >They were never known by he English equalivant.
              >
              >Frank Plichta
              >Galax, Virginia
              >
              >-----Original Message-----
              >From: Dr. Joe Q. [mailto:DoctorQ@...]
              >Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:18 PM
              >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
              >
              >My relatives and probably those of most of everyone else on this list
              >did not move much in the old country. At the moment, there are three
              >(3) towns for sure that mine came from and possibly a fourth for my
              >2xgreat grandfather. It isn't much of a chore to list all of the
              >various names of the towns and I have done that, but the names are more
              >of a curiosity for future generations. However, I am certain that in 40
              >years all that is necessary for someone to is enter their best guess of
              >the family name and general geographic location into what ever replaces
              >this rudimentary information system - internet - and fuzzy logic will
              >provide the best answer along with several other potential answers. I
              >think the resources will be there.
              >
              >I do include the spellings of the names as they appear in the records
              >and include the modern day equivalent Jan = John, Alzbeta = Elizabeth,
              etc.
              >
              >Dr. "Q"
              >
              >Bill Tarkulich wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              >>Hello "Q",
              >>
              >>The problem with "resources" is that they may not be in your control.
              >>External resources may or may not be accessible in a form you might expect
              >>20 years from now. In five years, I have seen several references come and
              >>go. That's one reason I make a private copy of any web resource I find
              >>helpful.
              >>
              >>I think it's simpler to put the three to six most common names into a
              >>cross-reference document and include it with your family trees.
              >>
              >>Bill
              >>
              >>On Tue, August 8, 2006 12:03 am, Dr. Joe Q. said:
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>>Cute!
              >>>
              >>>It is important to have the continuity of the various names over the
              >>>ages, however, one can become compulsive in the process. I think that
              >>>for the future generations, that the various Hungarian, German,
              >>>Czechoslovak, and Slovak names will be easy to identify and correlate.
              >>>Spisska Nova Ves was Iglo. Enter "Iglo Slovakia" into google and you
              >>>will get hits with Spisska Nova Ves and Iglo. I do not think that any
              >>>grand children will be at a disadvantage if you do not include all of
              >>>names of a town from 1835 to 1920/1990. Of course there is no harm in
              >>>doing so, but I feel that in most cases it is no longer necessary. You
              >>>can provide the 25+ names of a town from 1200 - 1990, but from a
              >>>practical standpoint, there are plenty of online resources now. What do
              >>>you anticipate those resources to be in 20 - 40 years?
              >>>
              >>>Just my thoughts.
              >>>
              >>>Dr. "Q"
              >>>
              >>>Gordon L. Grening wrote:
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>>Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
              >>>>Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!
              >>>>
              >>>>Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR
              >>>>has
              >>>>a web site.
              >>>>
              >>>>Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave
              if
              >>>>I
              >>>>said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from
              >>>>what
              >>>>I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think
              >>>>they
              >>>>were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
              >>>>
              >>>>----- Original Message -----
              >>>>From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
              >>>>To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
              >>>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
              >>>>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that
              >>>>the
              >>>>event took place.
              >>>>
              >>>>I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
              >>>>individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If
              >>>>you
              >>>>are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a
              >>>>separate
              >>>>"Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
              >>>>interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
              >>>>needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the
              >>>>Family
              >>>>Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them
              to
              >>>>learn a little more about history.
              >>>>
              >>>>Frank Plichta
              >>>>Galax, Virginia
              >>>>
              >>>>-----Original Message-----
              >>>>From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
              >>>>On
              >>>>Behalf Of Gordon Grening
              >>>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
              >>>>To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              >>>>Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
              >>>>
              >>>>I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
              >>>>in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
              >>>>actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
              >>>>and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
              >>>>put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??
              >>>>
              >>>>The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from ©ari¹,
              >>>>which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Pre¹ov region.
              >>>>Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
              >>>>German. So what name do I use.
              >>>>
              >>>>Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
              >>>>great-grandparents as being born in ©ari¹, Slovakia. But would
              >>>>Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
              >>>>are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
              >>>>any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?
              >>>>
              >>>>I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
              >>>>came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
              >>>>Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
              >>>>names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
              >>>>name.
              >>>>
              >>>>With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
              >>>>become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
              >>>>family trees on various database using different birth place names
              >>>>for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
              >>>>naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
              >>>>spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
              >>>>Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
              >>>>the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
              >>>>traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
              >>>>the name.
              >>>>



              To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
              SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              Yahoo! Groups Links









              To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
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