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Individual Names RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old

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  • Frank R. Plichta
    OK, so you change the names of your Slovak ancestors to the English equivalent. What does that do for your modern day Slovak relatives. To them the ancestor
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 9, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      OK, so you change the names of your Slovak ancestors to the English
      equivalent. What does that do for your modern day Slovak relatives. To
      them the ancestor was still Jan not John. Everything does not need to be
      translated to English.

      In my family tree, I'm communicating with relatives in Germany, Czech,
      Slovakia, Australia and Poland as well as the USA. Which language do you
      want me to record the first names of relatives? I beg to differ with Dr.Q
      for I will continue to record names in the language native to the
      ancestor/relative for that is what they were called in during their life.
      They were never known by he English equalivant.

      Frank Plichta
      Galax, Virginia

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Dr. Joe Q. [mailto:DoctorQ@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:18 PM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old

      My relatives and probably those of most of everyone else on this list
      did not move much in the old country. At the moment, there are three
      (3) towns for sure that mine came from and possibly a fourth for my
      2xgreat grandfather. It isn't much of a chore to list all of the
      various names of the towns and I have done that, but the names are more
      of a curiosity for future generations. However, I am certain that in 40
      years all that is necessary for someone to is enter their best guess of
      the family name and general geographic location into what ever replaces
      this rudimentary information system - internet - and fuzzy logic will
      provide the best answer along with several other potential answers. I
      think the resources will be there.

      I do include the spellings of the names as they appear in the records
      and include the modern day equivalent Jan = John, Alzbeta = Elizabeth, etc.

      Dr. "Q"

      Bill Tarkulich wrote:

      >Hello "Q",
      >
      >The problem with "resources" is that they may not be in your control.
      >External resources may or may not be accessible in a form you might expect
      >20 years from now. In five years, I have seen several references come and
      >go. That's one reason I make a private copy of any web resource I find
      >helpful.
      >
      >I think it's simpler to put the three to six most common names into a
      >cross-reference document and include it with your family trees.
      >
      >Bill
      >
      >On Tue, August 8, 2006 12:03 am, Dr. Joe Q. said:
      >
      >
      >>Cute!
      >>
      >>It is important to have the continuity of the various names over the
      >>ages, however, one can become compulsive in the process. I think that
      >>for the future generations, that the various Hungarian, German,
      >>Czechoslovak, and Slovak names will be easy to identify and correlate.
      >>Spisska Nova Ves was Iglo. Enter "Iglo Slovakia" into google and you
      >>will get hits with Spisska Nova Ves and Iglo. I do not think that any
      >>grand children will be at a disadvantage if you do not include all of
      >>names of a town from 1835 to 1920/1990. Of course there is no harm in
      >>doing so, but I feel that in most cases it is no longer necessary. You
      >>can provide the 25+ names of a town from 1200 - 1990, but from a
      >>practical standpoint, there are plenty of online resources now. What do
      >>you anticipate those resources to be in 20 - 40 years?
      >>
      >>Just my thoughts.
      >>
      >>Dr. "Q"
      >>
      >>Gordon L. Grening wrote:
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>>Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
      >>>Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!
      >>>
      >>>Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR
      >>>has
      >>>a web site.
      >>>
      >>>Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if
      >>>I
      >>>said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from
      >>>what
      >>>I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think
      >>>they
      >>>were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
      >>>
      >>>----- Original Message -----
      >>>From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
      >>>To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      >>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
      >>>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that
      >>>the
      >>>event took place.
      >>>
      >>>I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
      >>>individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If
      >>>you
      >>>are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a
      >>>separate
      >>>"Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
      >>>interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
      >>>needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the
      >>>Family
      >>>Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
      >>>learn a little more about history.
      >>>
      >>>Frank Plichta
      >>>Galax, Virginia
      >>>
      >>>-----Original Message-----
      >>>From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
      >>>On
      >>>Behalf Of Gordon Grening
      >>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
      >>>To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      >>>Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
      >>>
      >>>I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
      >>>in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
      >>>actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
      >>>and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
      >>>put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??
      >>>
      >>>The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from ©ari¹,
      >>>which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Pre¹ov region.
      >>>Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
      >>>German. So what name do I use.
      >>>
      >>>Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
      >>>great-grandparents as being born in ©ari¹, Slovakia. But would
      >>>Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
      >>>are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
      >>>any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?
      >>>
      >>>I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
      >>>came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
      >>>Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
      >>>names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
      >>>name.
      >>>
      >>>With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
      >>>become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
      >>>family trees on various database using different birth place names
      >>>for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
      >>>naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
      >>>spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
      >>>Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
      >>>the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
      >>>traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
      >>>the name.
      >>>



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    • Dr. Joe Q.
      No I don t think you read or understood what I wrote. There is nothing to differ with. I don t change the names, the names are listed as they appear in the
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 9, 2006
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        No I don't think you read or understood what I wrote. There is nothing
        to differ with. I don't "change" the names, the names are listed as they
        appear in the record, I augment my notation of the recorded name with
        the English equivalent. I do the same for name of town

        Do you list the name as it appears in the Latin form e.g. Joannes and
        leave it at that or do you list it as Jan, or Paulus instead of Pal, etc.?

        Providing the additional information is most useful. Listing Kosice as
        only Kassa will not help future generations to easily identify and find
        the place.

        Dr. “Q”


        Frank R. Plichta wrote:

        >OK, so you change the names of your Slovak ancestors to the English
        >equivalent. What does that do for your modern day Slovak relatives. To
        >them the ancestor was still Jan not John. Everything does not need to be
        >translated to English.
        >
        >In my family tree, I'm communicating with relatives in Germany, Czech,
        >Slovakia, Australia and Poland as well as the USA. Which language do you
        >want me to record the first names of relatives? I beg to differ with Dr.Q
        >for I will continue to record names in the language native to the
        >ancestor/relative for that is what they were called in during their life.
        >They were never known by he English equalivant.
        >
        >Frank Plichta
        >Galax, Virginia
        >
        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: Dr. Joe Q. [mailto:DoctorQ@...]
        >Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:18 PM
        >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
        >
        >My relatives and probably those of most of everyone else on this list
        >did not move much in the old country. At the moment, there are three
        >(3) towns for sure that mine came from and possibly a fourth for my
        >2xgreat grandfather. It isn't much of a chore to list all of the
        >various names of the towns and I have done that, but the names are more
        >of a curiosity for future generations. However, I am certain that in 40
        >years all that is necessary for someone to is enter their best guess of
        >the family name and general geographic location into what ever replaces
        >this rudimentary information system - internet - and fuzzy logic will
        >provide the best answer along with several other potential answers. I
        >think the resources will be there.
        >
        >I do include the spellings of the names as they appear in the records
        >and include the modern day equivalent Jan = John, Alzbeta = Elizabeth, etc.
        >
        >Dr. "Q"
        >
        >Bill Tarkulich wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >>Hello "Q",
        >>
        >>The problem with "resources" is that they may not be in your control.
        >>External resources may or may not be accessible in a form you might expect
        >>20 years from now. In five years, I have seen several references come and
        >>go. That's one reason I make a private copy of any web resource I find
        >>helpful.
        >>
        >>I think it's simpler to put the three to six most common names into a
        >>cross-reference document and include it with your family trees.
        >>
        >>Bill
        >>
        >>On Tue, August 8, 2006 12:03 am, Dr. Joe Q. said:
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>>Cute!
        >>>
        >>>It is important to have the continuity of the various names over the
        >>>ages, however, one can become compulsive in the process. I think that
        >>>for the future generations, that the various Hungarian, German,
        >>>Czechoslovak, and Slovak names will be easy to identify and correlate.
        >>>Spisska Nova Ves was Iglo. Enter "Iglo Slovakia" into google and you
        >>>will get hits with Spisska Nova Ves and Iglo. I do not think that any
        >>>grand children will be at a disadvantage if you do not include all of
        >>>names of a town from 1835 to 1920/1990. Of course there is no harm in
        >>>doing so, but I feel that in most cases it is no longer necessary. You
        >>>can provide the 25+ names of a town from 1200 - 1990, but from a
        >>>practical standpoint, there are plenty of online resources now. What do
        >>>you anticipate those resources to be in 20 - 40 years?
        >>>
        >>>Just my thoughts.
        >>>
        >>>Dr. "Q"
        >>>
        >>>Gordon L. Grening wrote:
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
        >>>>Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!
        >>>>
        >>>>Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR
        >>>>has
        >>>>a web site.
        >>>>
        >>>>Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if
        >>>>I
        >>>>said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from
        >>>>what
        >>>>I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think
        >>>>they
        >>>>were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
        >>>>
        >>>>----- Original Message -----
        >>>>From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
        >>>>To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
        >>>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
        >>>>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that
        >>>>the
        >>>>event took place.
        >>>>
        >>>>I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
        >>>>individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If
        >>>>you
        >>>>are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a
        >>>>separate
        >>>>"Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
        >>>>interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
        >>>>needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the
        >>>>Family
        >>>>Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
        >>>>learn a little more about history.
        >>>>
        >>>>Frank Plichta
        >>>>Galax, Virginia
        >>>>
        >>>>-----Original Message-----
        >>>>From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
        >>>>On
        >>>>Behalf Of Gordon Grening
        >>>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
        >>>>To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        >>>>Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
        >>>>
        >>>>I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
        >>>>in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
        >>>>actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
        >>>>and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
        >>>>put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??
        >>>>
        >>>>The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from ©ari¹,
        >>>>which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Pre¹ov region.
        >>>>Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
        >>>>German. So what name do I use.
        >>>>
        >>>>Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
        >>>>great-grandparents as being born in ©ari¹, Slovakia. But would
        >>>>Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
        >>>>are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
        >>>>any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?
        >>>>
        >>>>I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
        >>>>came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
        >>>>Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
        >>>>names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
        >>>>name.
        >>>>
        >>>>With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
        >>>>become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
        >>>>family trees on various database using different birth place names
        >>>>for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
        >>>>naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
        >>>>spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
        >>>>Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
        >>>>the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
        >>>>traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
        >>>>the name.
        >>>>
      • Dr. Joe Q.
        Or put another way: I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. ;-)
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 9, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Or put another way:

          I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am
          not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

          ;-)

          Dr. "Q"

          Frank R. Plichta wrote:

          >OK, so you change the names of your Slovak ancestors to the English
          >equivalent. What does that do for your modern day Slovak relatives. To
          >them the ancestor was still Jan not John. Everything does not need to be
          >translated to English.
          >
          >In my family tree, I'm communicating with relatives in Germany, Czech,
          >Slovakia, Australia and Poland as well as the USA. Which language do you
          >want me to record the first names of relatives? I beg to differ with Dr.Q
          >for I will continue to record names in the language native to the
          >ancestor/relative for that is what they were called in during their life.
          >They were never known by he English equalivant.
          >
          >Frank Plichta
          >Galax, Virginia
          >
          >-----Original Message-----
          >From: Dr. Joe Q. [mailto:DoctorQ@...]
          >Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:18 PM
          >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: Re: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
          >
          >My relatives and probably those of most of everyone else on this list
          >did not move much in the old country. At the moment, there are three
          >(3) towns for sure that mine came from and possibly a fourth for my
          >2xgreat grandfather. It isn't much of a chore to list all of the
          >various names of the towns and I have done that, but the names are more
          >of a curiosity for future generations. However, I am certain that in 40
          >years all that is necessary for someone to is enter their best guess of
          >the family name and general geographic location into what ever replaces
          >this rudimentary information system - internet - and fuzzy logic will
          >provide the best answer along with several other potential answers. I
          >think the resources will be there.
          >
          >I do include the spellings of the names as they appear in the records
          >and include the modern day equivalent Jan = John, Alzbeta = Elizabeth, etc.
          >
          >Dr. "Q"
          >
          >Bill Tarkulich wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >>Hello "Q",
          >>
          >>The problem with "resources" is that they may not be in your control.
          >>External resources may or may not be accessible in a form you might expect
          >>20 years from now. In five years, I have seen several references come and
          >>go. That's one reason I make a private copy of any web resource I find
          >>helpful.
          >>
          >>I think it's simpler to put the three to six most common names into a
          >>cross-reference document and include it with your family trees.
          >>
          >>Bill
          >>
          >>On Tue, August 8, 2006 12:03 am, Dr. Joe Q. said:
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>>Cute!
          >>>
          >>>It is important to have the continuity of the various names over the
          >>>ages, however, one can become compulsive in the process. I think that
          >>>for the future generations, that the various Hungarian, German,
          >>>Czechoslovak, and Slovak names will be easy to identify and correlate.
          >>>Spisska Nova Ves was Iglo. Enter "Iglo Slovakia" into google and you
          >>>will get hits with Spisska Nova Ves and Iglo. I do not think that any
          >>>grand children will be at a disadvantage if you do not include all of
          >>>names of a town from 1835 to 1920/1990. Of course there is no harm in
          >>>doing so, but I feel that in most cases it is no longer necessary. You
          >>>can provide the 25+ names of a town from 1200 - 1990, but from a
          >>>practical standpoint, there are plenty of online resources now. What do
          >>>you anticipate those resources to be in 20 - 40 years?
          >>>
          >>>Just my thoughts.
          >>>
          >>>Dr. "Q"
          >>>
          >>>Gordon L. Grening wrote:
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>>Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
          >>>>Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!
          >>>>
          >>>>Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR
          >>>>has
          >>>>a web site.
          >>>>
          >>>>Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if
          >>>>I
          >>>>said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from
          >>>>what
          >>>>I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think
          >>>>they
          >>>>were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
          >>>>
          >>>>----- Original Message -----
          >>>>From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
          >>>>To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
          >>>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
          >>>>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>>>I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that
          >>>>the
          >>>>event took place.
          >>>>
          >>>>I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
          >>>>individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If
          >>>>you
          >>>>are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a
          >>>>separate
          >>>>"Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
          >>>>interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
          >>>>needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the
          >>>>Family
          >>>>Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
          >>>>learn a little more about history.
          >>>>
          >>>>Frank Plichta
          >>>>Galax, Virginia
          >>>>
          >>>>-----Original Message-----
          >>>>From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
          >>>>On
          >>>>Behalf Of Gordon Grening
          >>>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
          >>>>To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          >>>>Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
          >>>>
          >>>>I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
          >>>>in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
          >>>>actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
          >>>>and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
          >>>>put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??
          >>>>
          >>>>The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from ©ari¹,
          >>>>which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Pre¹ov region.
          >>>>Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
          >>>>German. So what name do I use.
          >>>>
          >>>>Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
          >>>>great-grandparents as being born in ©ari¹, Slovakia. But would
          >>>>Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
          >>>>are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
          >>>>any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?
          >>>>
          >>>>I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
          >>>>came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
          >>>>Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
          >>>>names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
          >>>>name.
          >>>>
          >>>>With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
          >>>>become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
          >>>>family trees on various database using different birth place names
          >>>>for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
          >>>>naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
          >>>>spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
          >>>>Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
          >>>>the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
          >>>>traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
          >>>>the name.
          >>>>
        • amiak27
          As I have encountered similar village names or variations on the names (as in Zavodie, Zavoda, Zavode; Sulin SzepesSzulin and even Lepesszulin) I have made a
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 9, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            As I have encountered similar village names or variations on the names
            (as in Zavodie, Zavoda, Zavode; Sulin SzepesSzulin and even
            Lepesszulin) I have made a note on one of my spreadsheets clarifying
            the differences and my conclusions so others will not run through the
            same confusion that I may have encountered. Some months ago that
            helped me clear up confusion one person on the internet was having in
            trying to nail down "Zavoda".
            Oh, I also record names as presented in the original document. How
            else can someone recognize the original when they see it?

            Ron

            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Joe Q." <DoctorQ@...> wrote:
            >
            > Or put another way:
            >
            > I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I
            am > not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
            >
            > ;-)
            >
            > Dr. "Q"
            >
            >> >and include the modern day equivalent Jan = John, Alzbeta =
            Elizabeth, etc.
            > >
            > >Dr. "Q"
          • Alan Antoska
            There are basically 2 questions. 1 Who is the target audience of our research/family tree and how best to present information for their consumption? 2 Should
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 9, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              There are basically 2 questions.

              1 Who is the target audience of our research/family tree
              and how best to present information for their consumption?

              2 Should we as researchers record history exactly as we
              find it or may we interpret and modify it in the process of
              transfer to a digital format?

              Your answers to these 2 questions will also determine your
              response to "place names - modern or old?"
              ahoj

              Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
            • Vladimir Bohinc
              For my work I adopted following conventions: 1. For all persons born here I use names as they were used in the family. 2. For place names I use current place
              Message 6 of 8 , Aug 9, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                For my work I adopted following conventions:
                1. For all persons born here I use names as they were used in the family.
                2. For place names I use current place names.
                All variations of names and place names can be explained in "additional information".
                The probability, that someone will go and re- research the whole thing is rather theoretical. If so, he will have to learn all the variations.
                Vladimir


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Alan Antoska
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:01 AM
                Subject: Re: Individual Names RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old


                There are basically 2 questions.

                1 Who is the target audience of our research/family tree
                and how best to present information for their consumption?

                2 Should we as researchers record history exactly as we
                find it or may we interpret and modify it in the process of
                transfer to a digital format?

                Your answers to these 2 questions will also determine your
                response to "place names - modern or old?"
                ahoj

                Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com




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              • frank.r.plichta@earthlink.net
                When I read what you wrote, I thought I understood what you meant but apparently you did not intend it to perceived the way that I did. ... From:
                Message 7 of 8 , Aug 10, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  When I read what you wrote, I thought I understood what you meant but
                  apparently you did not intend it to perceived the way that I did.

                  :-) Frank

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Dr. Joe Q.
                  Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:10 PM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: Individual Names RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old

                  Or put another way:

                  I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am
                  not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

                  ;-)

                  Dr. "Q"

                  Frank R. Plichta wrote:

                  >OK, so you change the names of your Slovak ancestors to the English
                  >equivalent. What does that do for your modern day Slovak relatives. To
                  >them the ancestor was still Jan not John. Everything does not need to be
                  >translated to English.
                  >
                  >In my family tree, I'm communicating with relatives in Germany, Czech,
                  >Slovakia, Australia and Poland as well as the USA. Which language do you
                  >want me to record the first names of relatives? I beg to differ with Dr.Q
                  >for I will continue to record names in the language native to the
                  >ancestor/relative for that is what they were called in during their life.
                  >They were never known by he English equalivant.
                  >
                  >Frank Plichta
                  >Galax, Virginia
                  >
                  >-----Original Message-----
                  >From: Dr. Joe Q. [mailto:DoctorQ@...]
                  >Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:18 PM
                  >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: Re: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                  >
                  >My relatives and probably those of most of everyone else on this list
                  >did not move much in the old country. At the moment, there are three
                  >(3) towns for sure that mine came from and possibly a fourth for my
                  >2xgreat grandfather. It isn't much of a chore to list all of the
                  >various names of the towns and I have done that, but the names are more
                  >of a curiosity for future generations. However, I am certain that in 40
                  >years all that is necessary for someone to is enter their best guess of
                  >the family name and general geographic location into what ever replaces
                  >this rudimentary information system - internet - and fuzzy logic will
                  >provide the best answer along with several other potential answers. I
                  >think the resources will be there.
                  >
                  >I do include the spellings of the names as they appear in the records
                  >and include the modern day equivalent Jan = John, Alzbeta = Elizabeth,
                  etc.
                  >
                  >Dr. "Q"
                  >
                  >Bill Tarkulich wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >>Hello "Q",
                  >>
                  >>The problem with "resources" is that they may not be in your control.
                  >>External resources may or may not be accessible in a form you might expect
                  >>20 years from now. In five years, I have seen several references come and
                  >>go. That's one reason I make a private copy of any web resource I find
                  >>helpful.
                  >>
                  >>I think it's simpler to put the three to six most common names into a
                  >>cross-reference document and include it with your family trees.
                  >>
                  >>Bill
                  >>
                  >>On Tue, August 8, 2006 12:03 am, Dr. Joe Q. said:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>>Cute!
                  >>>
                  >>>It is important to have the continuity of the various names over the
                  >>>ages, however, one can become compulsive in the process. I think that
                  >>>for the future generations, that the various Hungarian, German,
                  >>>Czechoslovak, and Slovak names will be easy to identify and correlate.
                  >>>Spisska Nova Ves was Iglo. Enter "Iglo Slovakia" into google and you
                  >>>will get hits with Spisska Nova Ves and Iglo. I do not think that any
                  >>>grand children will be at a disadvantage if you do not include all of
                  >>>names of a town from 1835 to 1920/1990. Of course there is no harm in
                  >>>doing so, but I feel that in most cases it is no longer necessary. You
                  >>>can provide the 25+ names of a town from 1200 - 1990, but from a
                  >>>practical standpoint, there are plenty of online resources now. What do
                  >>>you anticipate those resources to be in 20 - 40 years?
                  >>>
                  >>>Just my thoughts.
                  >>>
                  >>>Dr. "Q"
                  >>>
                  >>>Gordon L. Grening wrote:
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>>Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
                  >>>>Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!
                  >>>>
                  >>>>Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR
                  >>>>has
                  >>>>a web site.
                  >>>>
                  >>>>Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave
                  if
                  >>>>I
                  >>>>said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from
                  >>>>what
                  >>>>I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think
                  >>>>they
                  >>>>were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
                  >>>>
                  >>>>----- Original Message -----
                  >>>>From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
                  >>>>To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                  >>>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
                  >>>>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>>I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that
                  >>>>the
                  >>>>event took place.
                  >>>>
                  >>>>I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
                  >>>>individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If
                  >>>>you
                  >>>>are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a
                  >>>>separate
                  >>>>"Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
                  >>>>interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
                  >>>>needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the
                  >>>>Family
                  >>>>Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them
                  to
                  >>>>learn a little more about history.
                  >>>>
                  >>>>Frank Plichta
                  >>>>Galax, Virginia
                  >>>>
                  >>>>-----Original Message-----
                  >>>>From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                  >>>>On
                  >>>>Behalf Of Gordon Grening
                  >>>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
                  >>>>To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  >>>>Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                  >>>>
                  >>>>I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
                  >>>>in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
                  >>>>actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
                  >>>>and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
                  >>>>put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??
                  >>>>
                  >>>>The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from ©ari¹,
                  >>>>which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Pre¹ov region.
                  >>>>Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
                  >>>>German. So what name do I use.
                  >>>>
                  >>>>Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
                  >>>>great-grandparents as being born in ©ari¹, Slovakia. But would
                  >>>>Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
                  >>>>are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
                  >>>>any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?
                  >>>>
                  >>>>I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
                  >>>>came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
                  >>>>Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
                  >>>>names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
                  >>>>name.
                  >>>>
                  >>>>With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
                  >>>>become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
                  >>>>family trees on various database using different birth place names
                  >>>>for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
                  >>>>naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
                  >>>>spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
                  >>>>Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
                  >>>>the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
                  >>>>traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
                  >>>>the name.
                  >>>>



                  To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                  SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • GoSlovakia@aol.com
                  ... From: frank.r.plichta@earthlink.net To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 8:51 AM Subject: RE: Individual Names RE: [S-R] Place Names -
                  Message 8 of 8 , Aug 10, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: frank.r.plichta@...
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 8:51 AM
                    Subject: RE: Individual Names RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old


                    When I read what you wrote, I thought I understood what you meant but
                    apparently you did not intend it to perceived the way that I did.

                    :-) Frank

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of Dr. Joe Q.
                    Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:10 PM
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: Individual Names RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old

                    Or put another way:

                    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am
                    not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

                    ;-)

                    Dr. "Q"

                    Frank R. Plichta wrote:

                    >OK, so you change the names of your Slovak ancestors to the English
                    >equivalent. What does that do for your modern day Slovak relatives. To
                    >them the ancestor was still Jan not John. Everything does not need to be
                    >translated to English.
                    >
                    >In my family tree, I'm communicating with relatives in Germany, Czech,
                    >Slovakia, Australia and Poland as well as the USA. Which language do you
                    >want me to record the first names of relatives? I beg to differ with Dr.Q
                    >for I will continue to record names in the language native to the
                    >ancestor/relative for that is what they were called in during their life.
                    >They were never known by he English equalivant.
                    >
                    >Frank Plichta
                    >Galax, Virginia
                    >
                    >-----Original Message-----
                    >From: Dr. Joe Q. [mailto:DoctorQ@...]
                    >Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:18 PM
                    >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: Re: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                    >
                    >My relatives and probably those of most of everyone else on this list
                    >did not move much in the old country. At the moment, there are three
                    >(3) towns for sure that mine came from and possibly a fourth for my
                    >2xgreat grandfather. It isn't much of a chore to list all of the
                    >various names of the towns and I have done that, but the names are more
                    >of a curiosity for future generations. However, I am certain that in 40
                    >years all that is necessary for someone to is enter their best guess of
                    >the family name and general geographic location into what ever replaces
                    >this rudimentary information system - internet - and fuzzy logic will
                    >provide the best answer along with several other potential answers. I
                    >think the resources will be there.
                    >
                    >I do include the spellings of the names as they appear in the records
                    >and include the modern day equivalent Jan = John, Alzbeta = Elizabeth,
                    etc.
                    >
                    >Dr. "Q"
                    >
                    >Bill Tarkulich wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >>Hello "Q",
                    >>
                    >>The problem with "resources" is that they may not be in your control.
                    >>External resources may or may not be accessible in a form you might expect
                    >>20 years from now. In five years, I have seen several references come and
                    >>go. That's one reason I make a private copy of any web resource I find
                    >>helpful.
                    >>
                    >>I think it's simpler to put the three to six most common names into a
                    >>cross-reference document and include it with your family trees.
                    >>
                    >>Bill
                    >>
                    >>On Tue, August 8, 2006 12:03 am, Dr. Joe Q. said:
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>>Cute!
                    >>>
                    >>>It is important to have the continuity of the various names over the
                    >>>ages, however, one can become compulsive in the process. I think that
                    >>>for the future generations, that the various Hungarian, German,
                    >>>Czechoslovak, and Slovak names will be easy to identify and correlate.
                    >>>Spisska Nova Ves was Iglo. Enter "Iglo Slovakia" into google and you
                    >>>will get hits with Spisska Nova Ves and Iglo. I do not think that any
                    >>>grand children will be at a disadvantage if you do not include all of
                    >>>names of a town from 1835 to 1920/1990. Of course there is no harm in
                    >>>doing so, but I feel that in most cases it is no longer necessary. You
                    >>>can provide the 25+ names of a town from 1200 - 1990, but from a
                    >>>practical standpoint, there are plenty of online resources now. What do
                    >>>you anticipate those resources to be in 20 - 40 years?
                    >>>
                    >>>Just my thoughts.
                    >>>
                    >>>Dr. "Q"
                    >>>
                    >>>Gordon L. Grening wrote:
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>>Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
                    >>>>Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!
                    >>>>
                    >>>>Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR
                    >>>>has
                    >>>>a web site.
                    >>>>
                    >>>>Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave
                    if
                    >>>>I
                    >>>>said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from
                    >>>>what
                    >>>>I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think
                    >>>>they
                    >>>>were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
                    >>>>
                    >>>>----- Original Message -----
                    >>>>From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
                    >>>>To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                    >>>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
                    >>>>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                    >>>>
                    >>>>
                    >>>>I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that
                    >>>>the
                    >>>>event took place.
                    >>>>
                    >>>>I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
                    >>>>individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If
                    >>>>you
                    >>>>are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a
                    >>>>separate
                    >>>>"Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
                    >>>>interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
                    >>>>needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the
                    >>>>Family
                    >>>>Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them
                    to
                    >>>>learn a little more about history.
                    >>>>
                    >>>>Frank Plichta
                    >>>>Galax, Virginia
                    >>>>
                    >>>>-----Original Message-----
                    >>>>From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                    >>>>On
                    >>>>Behalf Of Gordon Grening
                    >>>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
                    >>>>To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    >>>>Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                    >>>>
                    >>>>I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
                    >>>>in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
                    >>>>actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
                    >>>>and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
                    >>>>put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??
                    >>>>
                    >>>>The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from ©ari¹,
                    >>>>which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Pre¹ov region.
                    >>>>Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
                    >>>>German. So what name do I use.
                    >>>>
                    >>>>Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
                    >>>>great-grandparents as being born in ©ari¹, Slovakia. But would
                    >>>>Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
                    >>>>are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
                    >>>>any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?
                    >>>>
                    >>>>I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
                    >>>>came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
                    >>>>Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
                    >>>>names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
                    >>>>name.
                    >>>>
                    >>>>With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
                    >>>>become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
                    >>>>family trees on various database using different birth place names
                    >>>>for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
                    >>>>naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
                    >>>>spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
                    >>>>Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
                    >>>>the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
                    >>>>traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
                    >>>>the name.
                    >>>>



                    To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                    SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    Yahoo! Groups Links









                    To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                    -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    Yahoo! Groups Links




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