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Re: Place Names - Modern versus old

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  • johnqadam
    I realize my inconsistency but . . . I use the names as written in the church records, generally at birth vs marriage or death or 1869 Hungarian census. I
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
      I realize my inconsistency but . . .

      I use the names as written in the church records, generally at birth
      vs marriage or death or 1869 Hungarian census.

      I use place names as they exist today so the present and future
      generations can find the place on a modern map.

      That's my story and I am sticking to it . . . your mileage will
      differ.
    • Linda Hartlaub
      I also use the place name as it existed on the record, then add in parentheses (Slovakia) or (Poland), etc. Linda --
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
        I also use the place name as it existed on the record, then add in parentheses (Slovakia) or (Poland), etc.

        Linda


        --
        ___________________________________________________
        Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.mail.com/
      • Bill Tarkulich
        Everyone agrees: this is the right thing to do - always record the location as shown. Just as important is to show the given name and surname as it is cited
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
          Everyone agrees: this is the right thing to do - always record the location
          as shown. Just as important is to show the given name and surname as it is
          cited in the reference. The reason it's so important to cite the place name
          (including country name), is so when someone, someday goes back to verify or
          recreate your research, for whatever reason, they will need this
          information.

          Frank is onto something important however, to keep a cross-reference to pass
          on, is a handy aide. It will help avoid all the confusion we all went
          through when we started our own work!


          Bill
        • Gordon L. Grening
          Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put Boston, Mass. Colony, England!! Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
            Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
            Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!

            Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR has
            a web site.

            Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if I
            said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from what
            I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think they
            were too nuts about the Slovaks either.

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
            To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
            Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old


            I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that the
            event took place.

            I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
            individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If you
            are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a separate
            "Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
            interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
            needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the Family
            Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
            learn a little more about history.

            Frank Plichta
            Galax, Virginia

            -----Original Message-----
            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Gordon Grening
            Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old

            I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
            in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
            actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
            and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
            put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??

            The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from Šariš,
            which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Prešov region.
            Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
            German. So what name do I use.

            Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
            great-grandparents as being born in Šariš, Slovakia. But would
            Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
            are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
            any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?

            I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
            came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
            Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
            names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
            name.

            With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
            become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
            family trees on various database using different birth place names
            for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
            naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
            spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
            Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
            the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
            traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
            the name.








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          • Frank R. Plichta
            I think there is a difference between being from Hungary and being Hungarian. You can still be a Slovak from Hungary. Or an American from Slovakia. Or an
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
              I think there is a difference between being from Hungary and being
              Hungarian.
              You can still be a Slovak from Hungary. Or an American from Slovakia. Or
              an American of Slovak Ancestry from Hungary.

              Frank Plichta
              Galax, Virginia

              -----Original Message-----
              From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Gordon L. Grening
              Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 10:27 PM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old

              Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
              Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!

              Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR has
              a web site.

              Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if I
              said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from what
              I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think they
              were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
            • Dr. Joe Q.
              Cute! It is important to have the continuity of the various names over the ages, however, one can become compulsive in the process. I think that for the
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
                Cute!

                It is important to have the continuity of the various names over the
                ages, however, one can become compulsive in the process. I think that
                for the future generations, that the various Hungarian, German,
                Czechoslovak, and Slovak names will be easy to identify and correlate.
                Spisska Nova Ves was Iglo. Enter "Iglo Slovakia" into google and you
                will get hits with Spisska Nova Ves and Iglo. I do not think that any
                grand children will be at a disadvantage if you do not include all of
                names of a town from 1835 to 1920/1990. Of course there is no harm in
                doing so, but I feel that in most cases it is no longer necessary. You
                can provide the 25+ names of a town from 1200 - 1990, but from a
                practical standpoint, there are plenty of online resources now. What do
                you anticipate those resources to be in 20 - 40 years?

                Just my thoughts.

                Dr. "Q"

                Gordon L. Grening wrote:

                >Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
                >Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!
                >
                >Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR has
                >a web site.
                >
                >Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if I
                >said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from what
                >I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think they
                >were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
                >
                >----- Original Message -----
                >From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
                >To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                >Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
                >Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                >
                >
                >I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that the
                >event took place.
                >
                >I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
                >individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If you
                >are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a separate
                >"Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
                >interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
                >needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the Family
                >Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
                >learn a little more about history.
                >
                >Frank Plichta
                >Galax, Virginia
                >
                >-----Original Message-----
                >From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                >Behalf Of Gordon Grening
                >Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
                >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                >
                >I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
                >in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
                >actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
                >and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
                >put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??
                >
                >The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from Šariš,
                >which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Prešov region.
                >Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
                >German. So what name do I use.
                >
                >Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
                >great-grandparents as being born in Šariš, Slovakia. But would
                >Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
                >are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
                >any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?
                >
                >I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
                >came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
                >Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
                >names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
                >name.
                >
                >With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
                >become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
                >family trees on various database using different birth place names
                >for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
                >naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
                >spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
                >Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
                >the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
                >traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
                >the name.
                >
              • Bill Tarkulich
                Hello Q , The problem with resources is that they may not be in your control. External resources may or may not be accessible in a form you might expect 20
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 8, 2006
                  Hello "Q",

                  The problem with "resources" is that they may not be in your control.
                  External resources may or may not be accessible in a form you might expect
                  20 years from now. In five years, I have seen several references come and
                  go. That's one reason I make a private copy of any web resource I find
                  helpful.

                  I think it's simpler to put the three to six most common names into a
                  cross-reference document and include it with your family trees.

                  Bill

                  On Tue, August 8, 2006 12:03 am, Dr. Joe Q. said:
                  > Cute!
                  >
                  > It is important to have the continuity of the various names over the
                  > ages, however, one can become compulsive in the process. I think that
                  > for the future generations, that the various Hungarian, German,
                  > Czechoslovak, and Slovak names will be easy to identify and correlate.
                  > Spisska Nova Ves was Iglo. Enter "Iglo Slovakia" into google and you
                  > will get hits with Spisska Nova Ves and Iglo. I do not think that any
                  > grand children will be at a disadvantage if you do not include all of
                  > names of a town from 1835 to 1920/1990. Of course there is no harm in
                  > doing so, but I feel that in most cases it is no longer necessary. You
                  > can provide the 25+ names of a town from 1200 - 1990, but from a
                  > practical standpoint, there are plenty of online resources now. What do
                  > you anticipate those resources to be in 20 - 40 years?
                  >
                  > Just my thoughts.
                  >
                  > Dr. "Q"
                  >
                  > Gordon L. Grening wrote:
                  >
                  >>Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
                  >>Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!
                  >>
                  >>Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR
                  >> has
                  >>a web site.
                  >>
                  >>Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if
                  >> I
                  >>said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from
                  >> what
                  >>I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think
                  >> they
                  >>were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
                  >>
                  >>----- Original Message -----
                  >>From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
                  >>To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                  >>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
                  >>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that
                  >> the
                  >>event took place.
                  >>
                  >>I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
                  >>individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If
                  >> you
                  >>are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a
                  >> separate
                  >>"Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
                  >>interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
                  >>needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the
                  >> Family
                  >>Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
                  >>learn a little more about history.
                  >>
                  >>Frank Plichta
                  >>Galax, Virginia
                  >>
                  >>-----Original Message-----
                  >>From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                  >> On
                  >>Behalf Of Gordon Grening
                  >>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
                  >>To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  >>Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                  >>
                  >>I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
                  >>in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
                  >>actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
                  >>and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
                  >>put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??
                  >>
                  >>The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from ©ari¹,
                  >>which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Pre¹ov region.
                  >>Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
                  >>German. So what name do I use.
                  >>
                  >>Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
                  >>great-grandparents as being born in ©ari¹, Slovakia. But would
                  >>Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
                  >>are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
                  >>any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?
                  >>
                  >>I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
                  >>came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
                  >>Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
                  >>names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
                  >>name.
                  >>
                  >>With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
                  >>become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
                  >>family trees on various database using different birth place names
                  >>for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
                  >>naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
                  >>spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
                  >>Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
                  >>the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
                  >>traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
                  >>the name.
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                  > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  --
                  Bill Tarkulich
                  http://www.iabsi.com
                • Bill Tarkulich
                  I don t worry too much about my ancestors rolling over; it s a bit too cramped down there ;) Regardless of your ethnicity, it was still the country you were
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 8, 2006
                    I don't worry too much about my ancestors rolling over; it's a bit too
                    cramped down there ;)

                    Regardless of your ethnicity, it was still the country you were born in,
                    like it or not. And since, at least for the forseeable future, records
                    remain organized geographically by political boundaries, it is essential
                    we record the information as it was so noted at the time of the event.

                    And as others have noted, nationality does not necessarily equate to
                    ethnicity. I believe in pre-1918 Hungary there were more than a dozen
                    unique ethnicities extant.

                    Bill

                    On Mon, August 7, 2006 10:27 pm, Gordon L. Grening said:
                    > Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
                    > Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!
                    >
                    > Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR
                    > has
                    > a web site.
                    >
                    > Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if
                    > I
                    > said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from
                    > what
                    > I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think
                    > they
                    > were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
                    > To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
                    > Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                    >
                    >
                    > I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that
                    > the
                    > event took place.
                    >
                    > I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
                    > individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If
                    > you
                    > are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a separate
                    > "Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
                    > interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
                    > needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the
                    > Family
                    > Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
                    > learn a little more about history.
                    >
                    > Frank Plichta
                    > Galax, Virginia
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                    > On
                    > Behalf Of Gordon Grening
                    > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
                    > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                    >
                    > I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
                    > in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
                    > actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
                    > and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
                    > put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??
                    >
                    > The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from ©ari¹,
                    > which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Pre¹ov region.
                    > Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
                    > German. So what name do I use.
                    >
                    > Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
                    > great-grandparents as being born in ©ari¹, Slovakia. But would
                    > Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
                    > are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
                    > any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?
                    >
                    > I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
                    > came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
                    > Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
                    > names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
                    > name.
                    >
                    > With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
                    > become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
                    > family trees on various database using different birth place names
                    > for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
                    > naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
                    > spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
                    > Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
                    > the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
                    > traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
                    > the name.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                    > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                    > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                    > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    --
                    Bill Tarkulich
                    http://www.iabsi.com
                  • Dr. Joe Q.
                    My relatives and probably those of most of everyone else on this list did not move much in the old country. At the moment, there are three (3) towns for sure
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 8, 2006
                      My relatives and probably those of most of everyone else on this list
                      did not move much in the old country. At the moment, there are three
                      (3) towns for sure that mine came from and possibly a fourth for my
                      2xgreat grandfather. It isn't much of a chore to list all of the
                      various names of the towns and I have done that, but the names are more
                      of a curiosity for future generations. However, I am certain that in 40
                      years all that is necessary for someone to is enter their best guess of
                      the family name and general geographic location into what ever replaces
                      this rudimentary information system - internet - and fuzzy logic will
                      provide the best answer along with several other potential answers. I
                      think the resources will be there.

                      I do include the spellings of the names as they appear in the records
                      and include the modern day equivalent Jan = John, Alzbeta = Elizabeth, etc.

                      Dr. "Q"

                      Bill Tarkulich wrote:

                      >Hello "Q",
                      >
                      >The problem with "resources" is that they may not be in your control.
                      >External resources may or may not be accessible in a form you might expect
                      >20 years from now. In five years, I have seen several references come and
                      >go. That's one reason I make a private copy of any web resource I find
                      >helpful.
                      >
                      >I think it's simpler to put the three to six most common names into a
                      >cross-reference document and include it with your family trees.
                      >
                      >Bill
                      >
                      >On Tue, August 8, 2006 12:03 am, Dr. Joe Q. said:
                      >
                      >
                      >>Cute!
                      >>
                      >>It is important to have the continuity of the various names over the
                      >>ages, however, one can become compulsive in the process. I think that
                      >>for the future generations, that the various Hungarian, German,
                      >>Czechoslovak, and Slovak names will be easy to identify and correlate.
                      >>Spisska Nova Ves was Iglo. Enter "Iglo Slovakia" into google and you
                      >>will get hits with Spisska Nova Ves and Iglo. I do not think that any
                      >>grand children will be at a disadvantage if you do not include all of
                      >>names of a town from 1835 to 1920/1990. Of course there is no harm in
                      >>doing so, but I feel that in most cases it is no longer necessary. You
                      >>can provide the 25+ names of a town from 1200 - 1990, but from a
                      >>practical standpoint, there are plenty of online resources now. What do
                      >>you anticipate those resources to be in 20 - 40 years?
                      >>
                      >>Just my thoughts.
                      >>
                      >>Dr. "Q"
                      >>
                      >>Gordon L. Grening wrote:
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>>Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
                      >>>Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!
                      >>>
                      >>>Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR
                      >>>has
                      >>>a web site.
                      >>>
                      >>>Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if
                      >>>I
                      >>>said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from
                      >>>what
                      >>>I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think
                      >>>they
                      >>>were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
                      >>>
                      >>>----- Original Message -----
                      >>>From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
                      >>>To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                      >>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
                      >>>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that
                      >>>the
                      >>>event took place.
                      >>>
                      >>>I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
                      >>>individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If
                      >>>you
                      >>>are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a
                      >>>separate
                      >>>"Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
                      >>>interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
                      >>>needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the
                      >>>Family
                      >>>Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
                      >>>learn a little more about history.
                      >>>
                      >>>Frank Plichta
                      >>>Galax, Virginia
                      >>>
                      >>>-----Original Message-----
                      >>>From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                      >>>On
                      >>>Behalf Of Gordon Grening
                      >>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
                      >>>To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      >>>Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                      >>>
                      >>>I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
                      >>>in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
                      >>>actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
                      >>>and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
                      >>>put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??
                      >>>
                      >>>The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from ©ari¹,
                      >>>which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Pre¹ov region.
                      >>>Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
                      >>>German. So what name do I use.
                      >>>
                      >>>Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
                      >>>great-grandparents as being born in ©ari¹, Slovakia. But would
                      >>>Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
                      >>>are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
                      >>>any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?
                      >>>
                      >>>I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
                      >>>came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
                      >>>Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
                      >>>names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
                      >>>name.
                      >>>
                      >>>With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
                      >>>become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
                      >>>family trees on various database using different birth place names
                      >>>for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
                      >>>naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
                      >>>spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
                      >>>Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
                      >>>the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
                      >>>traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
                      >>>the name.
                      >>>
                    • Bill Tarkulich
                      My gut tells me the best source will still be searching for ancestral village and not surname. Too many unrelated, unsubstantiated, un-researched branches.
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 9, 2006
                        My gut tells me the best source will still be searching for ancestral
                        village and not surname. Too many unrelated, unsubstantiated, un-researched
                        branches. Not many people research their family, thus I don't expect huge
                        investments in this area.


                        Bill


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Dr. Joe Q. [mailto:DoctorQ@...]
                        Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:18 PM
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old

                        My relatives and probably those of most of everyone else on this list
                        did not move much in the old country. At the moment, there are three
                        (3) towns for sure that mine came from and possibly a fourth for my
                        2xgreat grandfather. It isn't much of a chore to list all of the
                        various names of the towns and I have done that, but the names are more
                        of a curiosity for future generations. However, I am certain that in 40
                        years all that is necessary for someone to is enter their best guess of
                        the family name and general geographic location into what ever replaces
                        this rudimentary information system - internet - and fuzzy logic will
                        provide the best answer along with several other potential answers. I
                        think the resources will be there.

                        I do include the spellings of the names as they appear in the records
                        and include the modern day equivalent Jan = John, Alzbeta = Elizabeth, etc.

                        Dr. "Q"

                        Bill Tarkulich wrote:

                        >Hello "Q",
                        >
                        >The problem with "resources" is that they may not be in your control.
                        >External resources may or may not be accessible in a form you might expect
                        >20 years from now. In five years, I have seen several references come and
                        >go. That's one reason I make a private copy of any web resource I find
                        >helpful.
                        >
                        >I think it's simpler to put the three to six most common names into a
                        >cross-reference document and include it with your family trees.
                        >
                        >Bill
                        >
                        >On Tue, August 8, 2006 12:03 am, Dr. Joe Q. said:
                        >
                        >
                        >>Cute!
                        >>
                        >>It is important to have the continuity of the various names over the
                        >>ages, however, one can become compulsive in the process. I think that
                        >>for the future generations, that the various Hungarian, German,
                        >>Czechoslovak, and Slovak names will be easy to identify and correlate.
                        >>Spisska Nova Ves was Iglo. Enter "Iglo Slovakia" into google and you
                        >>will get hits with Spisska Nova Ves and Iglo. I do not think that any
                        >>grand children will be at a disadvantage if you do not include all of
                        >>names of a town from 1835 to 1920/1990. Of course there is no harm in
                        >>doing so, but I feel that in most cases it is no longer necessary. You
                        >>can provide the 25+ names of a town from 1200 - 1990, but from a
                        >>practical standpoint, there are plenty of online resources now. What do
                        >>you anticipate those resources to be in 20 - 40 years?
                        >>
                        >>Just my thoughts.
                        >>
                        >>Dr. "Q"
                        >>
                        >>Gordon L. Grening wrote:
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>>Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
                        >>>Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!
                        >>>
                        >>>Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR
                        >>>has
                        >>>a web site.
                        >>>
                        >>>Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if
                        >>>I
                        >>>said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from
                        >>>what
                        >>>I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think
                        >>>they
                        >>>were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
                        >>>
                        >>>----- Original Message -----
                        >>>From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
                        >>>To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                        >>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
                        >>>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that
                        >>>the
                        >>>event took place.
                        >>>
                        >>>I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
                        >>>individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If
                        >>>you
                        >>>are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a
                        >>>separate
                        >>>"Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
                        >>>interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
                        >>>needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the
                        >>>Family
                        >>>Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
                        >>>learn a little more about history.
                        >>>
                        >>>Frank Plichta
                        >>>Galax, Virginia
                        >>>
                        >>>-----Original Message-----
                        >>>From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                        >>>On
                        >>>Behalf Of Gordon Grening
                        >>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
                        >>>To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        >>>Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                        >>>
                        >>>I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
                        >>>in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
                        >>>actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
                        >>>and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
                        >>>put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??
                        >>>
                        >>>The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from ©ari¹,
                        >>>which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Pre¹ov region.
                        >>>Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
                        >>>German. So what name do I use.
                        >>>
                        >>>Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
                        >>>great-grandparents as being born in ©ari¹, Slovakia. But would
                        >>>Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
                        >>>are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
                        >>>any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?
                        >>>
                        >>>I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
                        >>>came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
                        >>>Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
                        >>>names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
                        >>>name.
                        >>>
                        >>>With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
                        >>>become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
                        >>>family trees on various database using different birth place names
                        >>>for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
                        >>>naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
                        >>>spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
                        >>>Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
                        >>>the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
                        >>>traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
                        >>>the name.
                        >>>



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