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RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old

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  • frank.r.plichta@earthlink.net
    I failed to mention that my Place Names file includes the effective dates that the place names actually changed. I have two references that assist with the
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
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      I failed to mention that my "Place Names" file includes the effective dates
      that the place names actually changed.

      I have two references that assist with the effective dates of place name
      changes:
      1. Na'zvy Obci' Slovenskej Republiky (Vy'vin v rokoch 1773-1997) by Milan
      Majta'n, vydavatel'stvo Slovenskej adade'mie vied, Bratislava 1998
      2. Vlastivedny' Slovni'k Obci' na Slovensku, Pripravil Encklopedicky'
      U'stav Sav, Veda, Vydavatel'stvo Slovenskej Akade'mie Vied, 1977/1978
      Bratislava (Three volumn set).

      Frank Plichta
      Galax, Virginia

      -----Original Message-----
      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of frank.r.plichta@...
      Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old

      I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that the
      event took place.

      I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
      individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If you
      are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a separate
      "Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
      interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
      needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the Family
      Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
      learn a little more about history.

      Frank Plichta
      Galax, Virginia
    • Jim
      I use the place names that were valid at the time of the record. For the earliest instance of the old place name, I add [modern place name]. I have a couple of
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
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        I use the place names that were valid at the time of the record.



        For the earliest instance of the old place name, I add [modern place name].



        I have a couple of census pages where the person was born in "Slovakland".
        If you know how to enter that in your software file, that should answer your
        other question.



        As a piece of trivia. See:
        http://www.archives.gov/legislative/guide/house/chapter-16-census.html



        "16.41 Generally, the subjects included in the jurisdiction of the Census
        Committee did not inspire heated debate, but several subjects did generate
        rather strong public reaction. A large roll petition contains the signatures
        of 2,735 Slovak citizens from Cleveland, OH, who protested that they were
        classed as Hungarians in the 1910 Federal census (61A-H4.2)."



        I would imagine the census committee was a bit confused. On any map that the
        census committee might come up it was Hungary.



        Jim



        _____

        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Gordon Grening
        Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old



        I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
        in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
        actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
        and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
        put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??

        The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from �ari�,
        which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Pre�ov region.
        Also the area was known as S�ros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
        German. So what name do I use.

        Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
        great-grandparents as being born in �ari�, Slovakia. But would
        S�ro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
        are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
        any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?

        I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
        came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
        Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
        names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
        name.

        With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
        become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
        family trees on various database using different birth place names
        for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
        naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
        spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
        Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
        the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
        traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
        the name.





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • johnqadam
        I realize my inconsistency but . . . I use the names as written in the church records, generally at birth vs marriage or death or 1869 Hungarian census. I
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
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          I realize my inconsistency but . . .

          I use the names as written in the church records, generally at birth
          vs marriage or death or 1869 Hungarian census.

          I use place names as they exist today so the present and future
          generations can find the place on a modern map.

          That's my story and I am sticking to it . . . your mileage will
          differ.
        • Linda Hartlaub
          I also use the place name as it existed on the record, then add in parentheses (Slovakia) or (Poland), etc. Linda --
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
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            I also use the place name as it existed on the record, then add in parentheses (Slovakia) or (Poland), etc.

            Linda


            --
            ___________________________________________________
            Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.mail.com/
          • Bill Tarkulich
            Everyone agrees: this is the right thing to do - always record the location as shown. Just as important is to show the given name and surname as it is cited
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
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              Everyone agrees: this is the right thing to do - always record the location
              as shown. Just as important is to show the given name and surname as it is
              cited in the reference. The reason it's so important to cite the place name
              (including country name), is so when someone, someday goes back to verify or
              recreate your research, for whatever reason, they will need this
              information.

              Frank is onto something important however, to keep a cross-reference to pass
              on, is a handy aide. It will help avoid all the confusion we all went
              through when we started our own work!


              Bill
            • Gordon L. Grening
              Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put Boston, Mass. Colony, England!! Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
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                Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
                Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!

                Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR has
                a web site.

                Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if I
                said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from what
                I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think they
                were too nuts about the Slovaks either.

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
                To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
                Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old


                I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that the
                event took place.

                I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
                individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If you
                are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a separate
                "Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
                interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
                needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the Family
                Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
                learn a little more about history.

                Frank Plichta
                Galax, Virginia

                -----Original Message-----
                From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Gordon Grening
                Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old

                I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
                in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
                actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
                and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
                put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??

                The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from Šariš,
                which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Prešov region.
                Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
                German. So what name do I use.

                Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
                great-grandparents as being born in Šariš, Slovakia. But would
                Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
                are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
                any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?

                I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
                came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
                Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
                names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
                name.

                With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
                become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
                family trees on various database using different birth place names
                for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
                naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
                spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
                Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
                the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
                traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
                the name.








                To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                To unsubscribe from this group, go to
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              • Frank R. Plichta
                I think there is a difference between being from Hungary and being Hungarian. You can still be a Slovak from Hungary. Or an American from Slovakia. Or an
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
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                  I think there is a difference between being from Hungary and being
                  Hungarian.
                  You can still be a Slovak from Hungary. Or an American from Slovakia. Or
                  an American of Slovak Ancestry from Hungary.

                  Frank Plichta
                  Galax, Virginia

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Gordon L. Grening
                  Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 10:27 PM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old

                  Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
                  Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!

                  Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR has
                  a web site.

                  Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if I
                  said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from what
                  I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think they
                  were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
                • Dr. Joe Q.
                  Cute! It is important to have the continuity of the various names over the ages, however, one can become compulsive in the process. I think that for the
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
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                    Cute!

                    It is important to have the continuity of the various names over the
                    ages, however, one can become compulsive in the process. I think that
                    for the future generations, that the various Hungarian, German,
                    Czechoslovak, and Slovak names will be easy to identify and correlate.
                    Spisska Nova Ves was Iglo. Enter "Iglo Slovakia" into google and you
                    will get hits with Spisska Nova Ves and Iglo. I do not think that any
                    grand children will be at a disadvantage if you do not include all of
                    names of a town from 1835 to 1920/1990. Of course there is no harm in
                    doing so, but I feel that in most cases it is no longer necessary. You
                    can provide the 25+ names of a town from 1200 - 1990, but from a
                    practical standpoint, there are plenty of online resources now. What do
                    you anticipate those resources to be in 20 - 40 years?

                    Just my thoughts.

                    Dr. "Q"

                    Gordon L. Grening wrote:

                    >Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
                    >Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!
                    >
                    >Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR has
                    >a web site.
                    >
                    >Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if I
                    >said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from what
                    >I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think they
                    >were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
                    >
                    >----- Original Message -----
                    >From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
                    >To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                    >Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
                    >Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                    >
                    >
                    >I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that the
                    >event took place.
                    >
                    >I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
                    >individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If you
                    >are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a separate
                    >"Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
                    >interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
                    >needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the Family
                    >Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
                    >learn a little more about history.
                    >
                    >Frank Plichta
                    >Galax, Virginia
                    >
                    >-----Original Message-----
                    >From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                    >Behalf Of Gordon Grening
                    >Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
                    >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                    >
                    >I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
                    >in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
                    >actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
                    >and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
                    >put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??
                    >
                    >The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from Šariš,
                    >which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Prešov region.
                    >Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
                    >German. So what name do I use.
                    >
                    >Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
                    >great-grandparents as being born in Šariš, Slovakia. But would
                    >Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
                    >are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
                    >any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?
                    >
                    >I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
                    >came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
                    >Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
                    >names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
                    >name.
                    >
                    >With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
                    >become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
                    >family trees on various database using different birth place names
                    >for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
                    >naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
                    >spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
                    >Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
                    >the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
                    >traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
                    >the name.
                    >
                  • Bill Tarkulich
                    Hello Q , The problem with resources is that they may not be in your control. External resources may or may not be accessible in a form you might expect 20
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 8, 2006
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                      Hello "Q",

                      The problem with "resources" is that they may not be in your control.
                      External resources may or may not be accessible in a form you might expect
                      20 years from now. In five years, I have seen several references come and
                      go. That's one reason I make a private copy of any web resource I find
                      helpful.

                      I think it's simpler to put the three to six most common names into a
                      cross-reference document and include it with your family trees.

                      Bill

                      On Tue, August 8, 2006 12:03 am, Dr. Joe Q. said:
                      > Cute!
                      >
                      > It is important to have the continuity of the various names over the
                      > ages, however, one can become compulsive in the process. I think that
                      > for the future generations, that the various Hungarian, German,
                      > Czechoslovak, and Slovak names will be easy to identify and correlate.
                      > Spisska Nova Ves was Iglo. Enter "Iglo Slovakia" into google and you
                      > will get hits with Spisska Nova Ves and Iglo. I do not think that any
                      > grand children will be at a disadvantage if you do not include all of
                      > names of a town from 1835 to 1920/1990. Of course there is no harm in
                      > doing so, but I feel that in most cases it is no longer necessary. You
                      > can provide the 25+ names of a town from 1200 - 1990, but from a
                      > practical standpoint, there are plenty of online resources now. What do
                      > you anticipate those resources to be in 20 - 40 years?
                      >
                      > Just my thoughts.
                      >
                      > Dr. "Q"
                      >
                      > Gordon L. Grening wrote:
                      >
                      >>Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
                      >>Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!
                      >>
                      >>Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR
                      >> has
                      >>a web site.
                      >>
                      >>Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if
                      >> I
                      >>said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from
                      >> what
                      >>I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think
                      >> they
                      >>were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
                      >>
                      >>----- Original Message -----
                      >>From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
                      >>To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                      >>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
                      >>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that
                      >> the
                      >>event took place.
                      >>
                      >>I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
                      >>individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If
                      >> you
                      >>are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a
                      >> separate
                      >>"Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
                      >>interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
                      >>needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the
                      >> Family
                      >>Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
                      >>learn a little more about history.
                      >>
                      >>Frank Plichta
                      >>Galax, Virginia
                      >>
                      >>-----Original Message-----
                      >>From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                      >> On
                      >>Behalf Of Gordon Grening
                      >>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
                      >>To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      >>Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                      >>
                      >>I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
                      >>in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
                      >>actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
                      >>and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
                      >>put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??
                      >>
                      >>The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from ©ari¹,
                      >>which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Pre¹ov region.
                      >>Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
                      >>German. So what name do I use.
                      >>
                      >>Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
                      >>great-grandparents as being born in ©ari¹, Slovakia. But would
                      >>Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
                      >>are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
                      >>any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?
                      >>
                      >>I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
                      >>came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
                      >>Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
                      >>names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
                      >>name.
                      >>
                      >>With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
                      >>become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
                      >>family trees on various database using different birth place names
                      >>for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
                      >>naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
                      >>spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
                      >>Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
                      >>the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
                      >>traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
                      >>the name.
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                      > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      --
                      Bill Tarkulich
                      http://www.iabsi.com
                    • Bill Tarkulich
                      I don t worry too much about my ancestors rolling over; it s a bit too cramped down there ;) Regardless of your ethnicity, it was still the country you were
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 8, 2006
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                        I don't worry too much about my ancestors rolling over; it's a bit too
                        cramped down there ;)

                        Regardless of your ethnicity, it was still the country you were born in,
                        like it or not. And since, at least for the forseeable future, records
                        remain organized geographically by political boundaries, it is essential
                        we record the information as it was so noted at the time of the event.

                        And as others have noted, nationality does not necessarily equate to
                        ethnicity. I believe in pre-1918 Hungary there were more than a dozen
                        unique ethnicities extant.

                        Bill

                        On Mon, August 7, 2006 10:27 pm, Gordon L. Grening said:
                        > Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
                        > Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!
                        >
                        > Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR
                        > has
                        > a web site.
                        >
                        > Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if
                        > I
                        > said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from
                        > what
                        > I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think
                        > they
                        > were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
                        > To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
                        > Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                        >
                        >
                        > I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that
                        > the
                        > event took place.
                        >
                        > I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
                        > individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If
                        > you
                        > are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a separate
                        > "Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
                        > interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
                        > needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the
                        > Family
                        > Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
                        > learn a little more about history.
                        >
                        > Frank Plichta
                        > Galax, Virginia
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                        > On
                        > Behalf Of Gordon Grening
                        > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
                        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                        >
                        > I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
                        > in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
                        > actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
                        > and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
                        > put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??
                        >
                        > The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from ©ari¹,
                        > which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Pre¹ov region.
                        > Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
                        > German. So what name do I use.
                        >
                        > Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
                        > great-grandparents as being born in ©ari¹, Slovakia. But would
                        > Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
                        > are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
                        > any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?
                        >
                        > I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
                        > came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
                        > Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
                        > names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
                        > name.
                        >
                        > With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
                        > become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
                        > family trees on various database using different birth place names
                        > for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
                        > naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
                        > spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
                        > Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
                        > the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
                        > traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
                        > the name.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                        --
                        Bill Tarkulich
                        http://www.iabsi.com
                      • Dr. Joe Q.
                        My relatives and probably those of most of everyone else on this list did not move much in the old country. At the moment, there are three (3) towns for sure
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 8, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          My relatives and probably those of most of everyone else on this list
                          did not move much in the old country. At the moment, there are three
                          (3) towns for sure that mine came from and possibly a fourth for my
                          2xgreat grandfather. It isn't much of a chore to list all of the
                          various names of the towns and I have done that, but the names are more
                          of a curiosity for future generations. However, I am certain that in 40
                          years all that is necessary for someone to is enter their best guess of
                          the family name and general geographic location into what ever replaces
                          this rudimentary information system - internet - and fuzzy logic will
                          provide the best answer along with several other potential answers. I
                          think the resources will be there.

                          I do include the spellings of the names as they appear in the records
                          and include the modern day equivalent Jan = John, Alzbeta = Elizabeth, etc.

                          Dr. "Q"

                          Bill Tarkulich wrote:

                          >Hello "Q",
                          >
                          >The problem with "resources" is that they may not be in your control.
                          >External resources may or may not be accessible in a form you might expect
                          >20 years from now. In five years, I have seen several references come and
                          >go. That's one reason I make a private copy of any web resource I find
                          >helpful.
                          >
                          >I think it's simpler to put the three to six most common names into a
                          >cross-reference document and include it with your family trees.
                          >
                          >Bill
                          >
                          >On Tue, August 8, 2006 12:03 am, Dr. Joe Q. said:
                          >
                          >
                          >>Cute!
                          >>
                          >>It is important to have the continuity of the various names over the
                          >>ages, however, one can become compulsive in the process. I think that
                          >>for the future generations, that the various Hungarian, German,
                          >>Czechoslovak, and Slovak names will be easy to identify and correlate.
                          >>Spisska Nova Ves was Iglo. Enter "Iglo Slovakia" into google and you
                          >>will get hits with Spisska Nova Ves and Iglo. I do not think that any
                          >>grand children will be at a disadvantage if you do not include all of
                          >>names of a town from 1835 to 1920/1990. Of course there is no harm in
                          >>doing so, but I feel that in most cases it is no longer necessary. You
                          >>can provide the 25+ names of a town from 1200 - 1990, but from a
                          >>practical standpoint, there are plenty of online resources now. What do
                          >>you anticipate those resources to be in 20 - 40 years?
                          >>
                          >>Just my thoughts.
                          >>
                          >>Dr. "Q"
                          >>
                          >>Gordon L. Grening wrote:
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>>Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
                          >>>Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!
                          >>>
                          >>>Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR
                          >>>has
                          >>>a web site.
                          >>>
                          >>>Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if
                          >>>I
                          >>>said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from
                          >>>what
                          >>>I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think
                          >>>they
                          >>>were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
                          >>>
                          >>>----- Original Message -----
                          >>>From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
                          >>>To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                          >>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
                          >>>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that
                          >>>the
                          >>>event took place.
                          >>>
                          >>>I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
                          >>>individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If
                          >>>you
                          >>>are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a
                          >>>separate
                          >>>"Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
                          >>>interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
                          >>>needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the
                          >>>Family
                          >>>Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
                          >>>learn a little more about history.
                          >>>
                          >>>Frank Plichta
                          >>>Galax, Virginia
                          >>>
                          >>>-----Original Message-----
                          >>>From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                          >>>On
                          >>>Behalf Of Gordon Grening
                          >>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
                          >>>To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          >>>Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                          >>>
                          >>>I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
                          >>>in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
                          >>>actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
                          >>>and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
                          >>>put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??
                          >>>
                          >>>The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from ©ari¹,
                          >>>which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Pre¹ov region.
                          >>>Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
                          >>>German. So what name do I use.
                          >>>
                          >>>Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
                          >>>great-grandparents as being born in ©ari¹, Slovakia. But would
                          >>>Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
                          >>>are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
                          >>>any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?
                          >>>
                          >>>I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
                          >>>came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
                          >>>Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
                          >>>names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
                          >>>name.
                          >>>
                          >>>With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
                          >>>become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
                          >>>family trees on various database using different birth place names
                          >>>for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
                          >>>naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
                          >>>spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
                          >>>Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
                          >>>the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
                          >>>traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
                          >>>the name.
                          >>>
                        • Bill Tarkulich
                          My gut tells me the best source will still be searching for ancestral village and not surname. Too many unrelated, unsubstantiated, un-researched branches.
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 9, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            My gut tells me the best source will still be searching for ancestral
                            village and not surname. Too many unrelated, unsubstantiated, un-researched
                            branches. Not many people research their family, thus I don't expect huge
                            investments in this area.


                            Bill


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Dr. Joe Q. [mailto:DoctorQ@...]
                            Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:18 PM
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old

                            My relatives and probably those of most of everyone else on this list
                            did not move much in the old country. At the moment, there are three
                            (3) towns for sure that mine came from and possibly a fourth for my
                            2xgreat grandfather. It isn't much of a chore to list all of the
                            various names of the towns and I have done that, but the names are more
                            of a curiosity for future generations. However, I am certain that in 40
                            years all that is necessary for someone to is enter their best guess of
                            the family name and general geographic location into what ever replaces
                            this rudimentary information system - internet - and fuzzy logic will
                            provide the best answer along with several other potential answers. I
                            think the resources will be there.

                            I do include the spellings of the names as they appear in the records
                            and include the modern day equivalent Jan = John, Alzbeta = Elizabeth, etc.

                            Dr. "Q"

                            Bill Tarkulich wrote:

                            >Hello "Q",
                            >
                            >The problem with "resources" is that they may not be in your control.
                            >External resources may or may not be accessible in a form you might expect
                            >20 years from now. In five years, I have seen several references come and
                            >go. That's one reason I make a private copy of any web resource I find
                            >helpful.
                            >
                            >I think it's simpler to put the three to six most common names into a
                            >cross-reference document and include it with your family trees.
                            >
                            >Bill
                            >
                            >On Tue, August 8, 2006 12:03 am, Dr. Joe Q. said:
                            >
                            >
                            >>Cute!
                            >>
                            >>It is important to have the continuity of the various names over the
                            >>ages, however, one can become compulsive in the process. I think that
                            >>for the future generations, that the various Hungarian, German,
                            >>Czechoslovak, and Slovak names will be easy to identify and correlate.
                            >>Spisska Nova Ves was Iglo. Enter "Iglo Slovakia" into google and you
                            >>will get hits with Spisska Nova Ves and Iglo. I do not think that any
                            >>grand children will be at a disadvantage if you do not include all of
                            >>names of a town from 1835 to 1920/1990. Of course there is no harm in
                            >>doing so, but I feel that in most cases it is no longer necessary. You
                            >>can provide the 25+ names of a town from 1200 - 1990, but from a
                            >>practical standpoint, there are plenty of online resources now. What do
                            >>you anticipate those resources to be in 20 - 40 years?
                            >>
                            >>Just my thoughts.
                            >>
                            >>Dr. "Q"
                            >>
                            >>Gordon L. Grening wrote:
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>>Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
                            >>>Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!
                            >>>
                            >>>Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR
                            >>>has
                            >>>a web site.
                            >>>
                            >>>Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if
                            >>>I
                            >>>said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from
                            >>>what
                            >>>I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think
                            >>>they
                            >>>were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
                            >>>
                            >>>----- Original Message -----
                            >>>From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
                            >>>To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                            >>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
                            >>>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>>I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that
                            >>>the
                            >>>event took place.
                            >>>
                            >>>I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
                            >>>individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If
                            >>>you
                            >>>are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a
                            >>>separate
                            >>>"Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
                            >>>interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
                            >>>needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the
                            >>>Family
                            >>>Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
                            >>>learn a little more about history.
                            >>>
                            >>>Frank Plichta
                            >>>Galax, Virginia
                            >>>
                            >>>-----Original Message-----
                            >>>From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                            >>>On
                            >>>Behalf Of Gordon Grening
                            >>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
                            >>>To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            >>>Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                            >>>
                            >>>I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
                            >>>in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
                            >>>actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
                            >>>and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
                            >>>put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??
                            >>>
                            >>>The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from ©ari¹,
                            >>>which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Pre¹ov region.
                            >>>Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
                            >>>German. So what name do I use.
                            >>>
                            >>>Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
                            >>>great-grandparents as being born in ©ari¹, Slovakia. But would
                            >>>Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
                            >>>are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
                            >>>any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?
                            >>>
                            >>>I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
                            >>>came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
                            >>>Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
                            >>>names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
                            >>>name.
                            >>>
                            >>>With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
                            >>>become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
                            >>>family trees on various database using different birth place names
                            >>>for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
                            >>>naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
                            >>>spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
                            >>>Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
                            >>>the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
                            >>>traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
                            >>>the name.
                            >>>



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