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RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old

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  • Marilyn Sandorf
    I grappled with these same questions, and decided to use the exact spellings (surnames) from the record or records, with annotations added about the source,
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
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      I grappled with these same questions, and decided to use the exact spellings (surnames) from the record or records, with annotations added about the source, etc.

      As to place names, I am using the names/ spellings in the records. I am NOT calling the country Slovakia, since it did not exist when my ancestors emigrated. I am calling it Hungary, since most of my ancestors came from old Saros County. I think/ hope this is accurate for the time period of mid 1880s to 1900, the dates my ancestors left 'the old country.'

      Marilyn Sandorf

      Marilyn Hertenstein <mjhertenstein@...> wrote:
      Great questions. I will be watching for the responses. I too have similar
      problems, not knowing what country to write. I have been writing the name
      of the country as it was on the day they were born, but putting in
      parenthesis what it is known as now. To compound the country problem, I
      have many cities names that were changed, so the problem is even worse, i.e.
      (Márkus-Csépánfalu, Czechoslovakia (now Markusovce, Slovakia). I've started
      making notes in the given area of the country and city name changes, just to
      help explain it. If you don't plan to publish your tree, I would say you
      can put whatever you want, but if you plan to publish it, proper names
      should be a must with explanations of changes entered in under notes or an
      appropriate place. I use Family Tree Maker 7.5 (yes I know, I should
      update). As for different spelling of the names, I try to use what I find in
      the church record or birth certificate, even if it is not the usual spelling
      the family used, and then again, make a note under the Notes part to explain
      the difference to show it was not a typo.

      Marilyn

      _____

      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Gordon Grening
      Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 6:34 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old



      I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
      in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
      actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
      and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
      put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??

      The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from ©ari¹,
      which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Pre¹ov region.
      Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
      German. So what name do I use.

      Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
      great-grandparents as being born in ©ari¹, Slovakia. But would
      Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
      are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
      any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?

      I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
      came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
      Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
      names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
      name.

      With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
      become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
      family trees on various database using different birth place names
      for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
      naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
      spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
      Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
      the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
      traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
      the name.






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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    • frank.r.plichta@earthlink.net
      I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that the event took place. I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
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        I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that the
        event took place.

        I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
        individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If you
        are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a separate
        "Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
        interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
        needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the Family
        Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
        learn a little more about history.

        Frank Plichta
        Galax, Virginia

        -----Original Message-----
        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Gordon Grening
        Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old

        I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
        in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
        actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
        and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
        put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??

        The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from Šariš,
        which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Prešov region.
        Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
        German. So what name do I use.

        Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
        great-grandparents as being born in Šariš, Slovakia. But would
        Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
        are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
        any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?

        I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
        came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
        Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
        names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
        name.

        With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
        become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
        family trees on various database using different birth place names
        for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
        naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
        spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
        Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
        the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
        traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
        the name.








        To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
        SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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      • frank.r.plichta@earthlink.net
        I failed to mention that my Place Names file includes the effective dates that the place names actually changed. I have two references that assist with the
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
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          I failed to mention that my "Place Names" file includes the effective dates
          that the place names actually changed.

          I have two references that assist with the effective dates of place name
          changes:
          1. Na'zvy Obci' Slovenskej Republiky (Vy'vin v rokoch 1773-1997) by Milan
          Majta'n, vydavatel'stvo Slovenskej adade'mie vied, Bratislava 1998
          2. Vlastivedny' Slovni'k Obci' na Slovensku, Pripravil Encklopedicky'
          U'stav Sav, Veda, Vydavatel'stvo Slovenskej Akade'mie Vied, 1977/1978
          Bratislava (Three volumn set).

          Frank Plichta
          Galax, Virginia

          -----Original Message-----
          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of frank.r.plichta@...
          Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old

          I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that the
          event took place.

          I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
          individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If you
          are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a separate
          "Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
          interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
          needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the Family
          Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
          learn a little more about history.

          Frank Plichta
          Galax, Virginia
        • Jim
          I use the place names that were valid at the time of the record. For the earliest instance of the old place name, I add [modern place name]. I have a couple of
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
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            I use the place names that were valid at the time of the record.



            For the earliest instance of the old place name, I add [modern place name].



            I have a couple of census pages where the person was born in "Slovakland".
            If you know how to enter that in your software file, that should answer your
            other question.



            As a piece of trivia. See:
            http://www.archives.gov/legislative/guide/house/chapter-16-census.html



            "16.41 Generally, the subjects included in the jurisdiction of the Census
            Committee did not inspire heated debate, but several subjects did generate
            rather strong public reaction. A large roll petition contains the signatures
            of 2,735 Slovak citizens from Cleveland, OH, who protested that they were
            classed as Hungarians in the 1910 Federal census (61A-H4.2)."



            I would imagine the census committee was a bit confused. On any map that the
            census committee might come up it was Hungary.



            Jim



            _____

            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Gordon Grening
            Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old



            I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
            in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
            actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
            and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
            put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??

            The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from �ari�,
            which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Pre�ov region.
            Also the area was known as S�ros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
            German. So what name do I use.

            Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
            great-grandparents as being born in �ari�, Slovakia. But would
            S�ro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
            are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
            any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?

            I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
            came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
            Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
            names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
            name.

            With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
            become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
            family trees on various database using different birth place names
            for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
            naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
            spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
            Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
            the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
            traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
            the name.





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • johnqadam
            I realize my inconsistency but . . . I use the names as written in the church records, generally at birth vs marriage or death or 1869 Hungarian census. I
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
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              I realize my inconsistency but . . .

              I use the names as written in the church records, generally at birth
              vs marriage or death or 1869 Hungarian census.

              I use place names as they exist today so the present and future
              generations can find the place on a modern map.

              That's my story and I am sticking to it . . . your mileage will
              differ.
            • Linda Hartlaub
              I also use the place name as it existed on the record, then add in parentheses (Slovakia) or (Poland), etc. Linda --
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
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                I also use the place name as it existed on the record, then add in parentheses (Slovakia) or (Poland), etc.

                Linda


                --
                ___________________________________________________
                Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.mail.com/
              • Bill Tarkulich
                Everyone agrees: this is the right thing to do - always record the location as shown. Just as important is to show the given name and surname as it is cited
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
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                  Everyone agrees: this is the right thing to do - always record the location
                  as shown. Just as important is to show the given name and surname as it is
                  cited in the reference. The reason it's so important to cite the place name
                  (including country name), is so when someone, someday goes back to verify or
                  recreate your research, for whatever reason, they will need this
                  information.

                  Frank is onto something important however, to keep a cross-reference to pass
                  on, is a handy aide. It will help avoid all the confusion we all went
                  through when we started our own work!


                  Bill
                • Gordon L. Grening
                  Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put Boston, Mass. Colony, England!! Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
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                    Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
                    Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!

                    Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR has
                    a web site.

                    Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if I
                    said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from what
                    I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think they
                    were too nuts about the Slovaks either.

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
                    To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
                    Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old


                    I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that the
                    event took place.

                    I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
                    individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If you
                    are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a separate
                    "Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
                    interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
                    needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the Family
                    Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
                    learn a little more about history.

                    Frank Plichta
                    Galax, Virginia

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of Gordon Grening
                    Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old

                    I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
                    in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
                    actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
                    and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
                    put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??

                    The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from Šariš,
                    which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Prešov region.
                    Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
                    German. So what name do I use.

                    Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
                    great-grandparents as being born in Šariš, Slovakia. But would
                    Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
                    are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
                    any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?

                    I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
                    came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
                    Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
                    names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
                    name.

                    With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
                    become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
                    family trees on various database using different birth place names
                    for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
                    naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
                    spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
                    Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
                    the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
                    traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
                    the name.








                    To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                    SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    Yahoo! Groups Links









                    To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                    SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • Frank R. Plichta
                    I think there is a difference between being from Hungary and being Hungarian. You can still be a Slovak from Hungary. Or an American from Slovakia. Or an
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
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                      I think there is a difference between being from Hungary and being
                      Hungarian.
                      You can still be a Slovak from Hungary. Or an American from Slovakia. Or
                      an American of Slovak Ancestry from Hungary.

                      Frank Plichta
                      Galax, Virginia

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of Gordon L. Grening
                      Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 10:27 PM
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old

                      Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
                      Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!

                      Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR has
                      a web site.

                      Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if I
                      said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from what
                      I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think they
                      were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
                    • Dr. Joe Q.
                      Cute! It is important to have the continuity of the various names over the ages, however, one can become compulsive in the process. I think that for the
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 7, 2006
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                        Cute!

                        It is important to have the continuity of the various names over the
                        ages, however, one can become compulsive in the process. I think that
                        for the future generations, that the various Hungarian, German,
                        Czechoslovak, and Slovak names will be easy to identify and correlate.
                        Spisska Nova Ves was Iglo. Enter "Iglo Slovakia" into google and you
                        will get hits with Spisska Nova Ves and Iglo. I do not think that any
                        grand children will be at a disadvantage if you do not include all of
                        names of a town from 1835 to 1920/1990. Of course there is no harm in
                        doing so, but I feel that in most cases it is no longer necessary. You
                        can provide the 25+ names of a town from 1200 - 1990, but from a
                        practical standpoint, there are plenty of online resources now. What do
                        you anticipate those resources to be in 20 - 40 years?

                        Just my thoughts.

                        Dr. "Q"

                        Gordon L. Grening wrote:

                        >Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
                        >Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!
                        >
                        >Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR has
                        >a web site.
                        >
                        >Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if I
                        >said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from what
                        >I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think they
                        >were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
                        >
                        >----- Original Message -----
                        >From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
                        >To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                        >Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
                        >Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                        >
                        >
                        >I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that the
                        >event took place.
                        >
                        >I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
                        >individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If you
                        >are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a separate
                        >"Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
                        >interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
                        >needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the Family
                        >Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
                        >learn a little more about history.
                        >
                        >Frank Plichta
                        >Galax, Virginia
                        >
                        >-----Original Message-----
                        >From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                        >Behalf Of Gordon Grening
                        >Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
                        >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        >Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                        >
                        >I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
                        >in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
                        >actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
                        >and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
                        >put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??
                        >
                        >The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from Šariš,
                        >which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Prešov region.
                        >Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
                        >German. So what name do I use.
                        >
                        >Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
                        >great-grandparents as being born in Šariš, Slovakia. But would
                        >Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
                        >are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
                        >any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?
                        >
                        >I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
                        >came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
                        >Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
                        >names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
                        >name.
                        >
                        >With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
                        >become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
                        >family trees on various database using different birth place names
                        >for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
                        >naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
                        >spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
                        >Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
                        >the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
                        >traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
                        >the name.
                        >
                      • Bill Tarkulich
                        Hello Q , The problem with resources is that they may not be in your control. External resources may or may not be accessible in a form you might expect 20
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 8, 2006
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                          Hello "Q",

                          The problem with "resources" is that they may not be in your control.
                          External resources may or may not be accessible in a form you might expect
                          20 years from now. In five years, I have seen several references come and
                          go. That's one reason I make a private copy of any web resource I find
                          helpful.

                          I think it's simpler to put the three to six most common names into a
                          cross-reference document and include it with your family trees.

                          Bill

                          On Tue, August 8, 2006 12:03 am, Dr. Joe Q. said:
                          > Cute!
                          >
                          > It is important to have the continuity of the various names over the
                          > ages, however, one can become compulsive in the process. I think that
                          > for the future generations, that the various Hungarian, German,
                          > Czechoslovak, and Slovak names will be easy to identify and correlate.
                          > Spisska Nova Ves was Iglo. Enter "Iglo Slovakia" into google and you
                          > will get hits with Spisska Nova Ves and Iglo. I do not think that any
                          > grand children will be at a disadvantage if you do not include all of
                          > names of a town from 1835 to 1920/1990. Of course there is no harm in
                          > doing so, but I feel that in most cases it is no longer necessary. You
                          > can provide the 25+ names of a town from 1200 - 1990, but from a
                          > practical standpoint, there are plenty of online resources now. What do
                          > you anticipate those resources to be in 20 - 40 years?
                          >
                          > Just my thoughts.
                          >
                          > Dr. "Q"
                          >
                          > Gordon L. Grening wrote:
                          >
                          >>Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
                          >>Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!
                          >>
                          >>Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR
                          >> has
                          >>a web site.
                          >>
                          >>Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if
                          >> I
                          >>said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from
                          >> what
                          >>I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think
                          >> they
                          >>were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
                          >>
                          >>----- Original Message -----
                          >>From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
                          >>To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                          >>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
                          >>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that
                          >> the
                          >>event took place.
                          >>
                          >>I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
                          >>individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If
                          >> you
                          >>are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a
                          >> separate
                          >>"Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
                          >>interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
                          >>needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the
                          >> Family
                          >>Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
                          >>learn a little more about history.
                          >>
                          >>Frank Plichta
                          >>Galax, Virginia
                          >>
                          >>-----Original Message-----
                          >>From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                          >> On
                          >>Behalf Of Gordon Grening
                          >>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
                          >>To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          >>Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                          >>
                          >>I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
                          >>in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
                          >>actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
                          >>and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
                          >>put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??
                          >>
                          >>The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from ©ari¹,
                          >>which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Pre¹ov region.
                          >>Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
                          >>German. So what name do I use.
                          >>
                          >>Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
                          >>great-grandparents as being born in ©ari¹, Slovakia. But would
                          >>Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
                          >>are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
                          >>any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?
                          >>
                          >>I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
                          >>came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
                          >>Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
                          >>names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
                          >>name.
                          >>
                          >>With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
                          >>become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
                          >>family trees on various database using different birth place names
                          >>for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
                          >>naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
                          >>spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
                          >>Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
                          >>the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
                          >>traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
                          >>the name.
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                          > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                          > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          --
                          Bill Tarkulich
                          http://www.iabsi.com
                        • Bill Tarkulich
                          I don t worry too much about my ancestors rolling over; it s a bit too cramped down there ;) Regardless of your ethnicity, it was still the country you were
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 8, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I don't worry too much about my ancestors rolling over; it's a bit too
                            cramped down there ;)

                            Regardless of your ethnicity, it was still the country you were born in,
                            like it or not. And since, at least for the forseeable future, records
                            remain organized geographically by political boundaries, it is essential
                            we record the information as it was so noted at the time of the event.

                            And as others have noted, nationality does not necessarily equate to
                            ethnicity. I believe in pre-1918 Hungary there were more than a dozen
                            unique ethnicities extant.

                            Bill

                            On Mon, August 7, 2006 10:27 pm, Gordon L. Grening said:
                            > Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
                            > Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!
                            >
                            > Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR
                            > has
                            > a web site.
                            >
                            > Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if
                            > I
                            > said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from
                            > what
                            > I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think
                            > they
                            > were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
                            > To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
                            > Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                            >
                            >
                            > I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that
                            > the
                            > event took place.
                            >
                            > I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
                            > individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If
                            > you
                            > are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a separate
                            > "Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
                            > interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
                            > needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the
                            > Family
                            > Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
                            > learn a little more about history.
                            >
                            > Frank Plichta
                            > Galax, Virginia
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                            > On
                            > Behalf Of Gordon Grening
                            > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
                            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                            >
                            > I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
                            > in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
                            > actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
                            > and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
                            > put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??
                            >
                            > The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from ©ari¹,
                            > which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Pre¹ov region.
                            > Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
                            > German. So what name do I use.
                            >
                            > Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
                            > great-grandparents as being born in ©ari¹, Slovakia. But would
                            > Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
                            > are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
                            > any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?
                            >
                            > I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
                            > came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
                            > Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
                            > names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
                            > name.
                            >
                            > With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
                            > become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
                            > family trees on various database using different birth place names
                            > for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
                            > naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
                            > spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
                            > Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
                            > the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
                            > traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
                            > the name.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                            > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                            > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                            > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                            > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                            > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                            > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            --
                            Bill Tarkulich
                            http://www.iabsi.com
                          • Dr. Joe Q.
                            My relatives and probably those of most of everyone else on this list did not move much in the old country. At the moment, there are three (3) towns for sure
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 8, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              My relatives and probably those of most of everyone else on this list
                              did not move much in the old country. At the moment, there are three
                              (3) towns for sure that mine came from and possibly a fourth for my
                              2xgreat grandfather. It isn't much of a chore to list all of the
                              various names of the towns and I have done that, but the names are more
                              of a curiosity for future generations. However, I am certain that in 40
                              years all that is necessary for someone to is enter their best guess of
                              the family name and general geographic location into what ever replaces
                              this rudimentary information system - internet - and fuzzy logic will
                              provide the best answer along with several other potential answers. I
                              think the resources will be there.

                              I do include the spellings of the names as they appear in the records
                              and include the modern day equivalent Jan = John, Alzbeta = Elizabeth, etc.

                              Dr. "Q"

                              Bill Tarkulich wrote:

                              >Hello "Q",
                              >
                              >The problem with "resources" is that they may not be in your control.
                              >External resources may or may not be accessible in a form you might expect
                              >20 years from now. In five years, I have seen several references come and
                              >go. That's one reason I make a private copy of any web resource I find
                              >helpful.
                              >
                              >I think it's simpler to put the three to six most common names into a
                              >cross-reference document and include it with your family trees.
                              >
                              >Bill
                              >
                              >On Tue, August 8, 2006 12:03 am, Dr. Joe Q. said:
                              >
                              >
                              >>Cute!
                              >>
                              >>It is important to have the continuity of the various names over the
                              >>ages, however, one can become compulsive in the process. I think that
                              >>for the future generations, that the various Hungarian, German,
                              >>Czechoslovak, and Slovak names will be easy to identify and correlate.
                              >>Spisska Nova Ves was Iglo. Enter "Iglo Slovakia" into google and you
                              >>will get hits with Spisska Nova Ves and Iglo. I do not think that any
                              >>grand children will be at a disadvantage if you do not include all of
                              >>names of a town from 1835 to 1920/1990. Of course there is no harm in
                              >>doing so, but I feel that in most cases it is no longer necessary. You
                              >>can provide the 25+ names of a town from 1200 - 1990, but from a
                              >>practical standpoint, there are plenty of online resources now. What do
                              >>you anticipate those resources to be in 20 - 40 years?
                              >>
                              >>Just my thoughts.
                              >>
                              >>Dr. "Q"
                              >>
                              >>Gordon L. Grening wrote:
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>>Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
                              >>>Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!
                              >>>
                              >>>Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR
                              >>>has
                              >>>a web site.
                              >>>
                              >>>Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if
                              >>>I
                              >>>said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from
                              >>>what
                              >>>I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think
                              >>>they
                              >>>were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
                              >>>
                              >>>----- Original Message -----
                              >>>From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
                              >>>To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                              >>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
                              >>>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that
                              >>>the
                              >>>event took place.
                              >>>
                              >>>I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
                              >>>individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If
                              >>>you
                              >>>are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a
                              >>>separate
                              >>>"Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
                              >>>interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
                              >>>needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the
                              >>>Family
                              >>>Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
                              >>>learn a little more about history.
                              >>>
                              >>>Frank Plichta
                              >>>Galax, Virginia
                              >>>
                              >>>-----Original Message-----
                              >>>From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                              >>>On
                              >>>Behalf Of Gordon Grening
                              >>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
                              >>>To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              >>>Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                              >>>
                              >>>I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
                              >>>in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
                              >>>actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
                              >>>and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
                              >>>put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??
                              >>>
                              >>>The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from ©ari¹,
                              >>>which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Pre¹ov region.
                              >>>Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
                              >>>German. So what name do I use.
                              >>>
                              >>>Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
                              >>>great-grandparents as being born in ©ari¹, Slovakia. But would
                              >>>Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
                              >>>are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
                              >>>any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?
                              >>>
                              >>>I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
                              >>>came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
                              >>>Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
                              >>>names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
                              >>>name.
                              >>>
                              >>>With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
                              >>>become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
                              >>>family trees on various database using different birth place names
                              >>>for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
                              >>>naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
                              >>>spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
                              >>>Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
                              >>>the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
                              >>>traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
                              >>>the name.
                              >>>
                            • Bill Tarkulich
                              My gut tells me the best source will still be searching for ancestral village and not surname. Too many unrelated, unsubstantiated, un-researched branches.
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 9, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                My gut tells me the best source will still be searching for ancestral
                                village and not surname. Too many unrelated, unsubstantiated, un-researched
                                branches. Not many people research their family, thus I don't expect huge
                                investments in this area.


                                Bill


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Dr. Joe Q. [mailto:DoctorQ@...]
                                Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:18 PM
                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old

                                My relatives and probably those of most of everyone else on this list
                                did not move much in the old country. At the moment, there are three
                                (3) towns for sure that mine came from and possibly a fourth for my
                                2xgreat grandfather. It isn't much of a chore to list all of the
                                various names of the towns and I have done that, but the names are more
                                of a curiosity for future generations. However, I am certain that in 40
                                years all that is necessary for someone to is enter their best guess of
                                the family name and general geographic location into what ever replaces
                                this rudimentary information system - internet - and fuzzy logic will
                                provide the best answer along with several other potential answers. I
                                think the resources will be there.

                                I do include the spellings of the names as they appear in the records
                                and include the modern day equivalent Jan = John, Alzbeta = Elizabeth, etc.

                                Dr. "Q"

                                Bill Tarkulich wrote:

                                >Hello "Q",
                                >
                                >The problem with "resources" is that they may not be in your control.
                                >External resources may or may not be accessible in a form you might expect
                                >20 years from now. In five years, I have seen several references come and
                                >go. That's one reason I make a private copy of any web resource I find
                                >helpful.
                                >
                                >I think it's simpler to put the three to six most common names into a
                                >cross-reference document and include it with your family trees.
                                >
                                >Bill
                                >
                                >On Tue, August 8, 2006 12:03 am, Dr. Joe Q. said:
                                >
                                >
                                >>Cute!
                                >>
                                >>It is important to have the continuity of the various names over the
                                >>ages, however, one can become compulsive in the process. I think that
                                >>for the future generations, that the various Hungarian, German,
                                >>Czechoslovak, and Slovak names will be easy to identify and correlate.
                                >>Spisska Nova Ves was Iglo. Enter "Iglo Slovakia" into google and you
                                >>will get hits with Spisska Nova Ves and Iglo. I do not think that any
                                >>grand children will be at a disadvantage if you do not include all of
                                >>names of a town from 1835 to 1920/1990. Of course there is no harm in
                                >>doing so, but I feel that in most cases it is no longer necessary. You
                                >>can provide the 25+ names of a town from 1200 - 1990, but from a
                                >>practical standpoint, there are plenty of online resources now. What do
                                >>you anticipate those resources to be in 20 - 40 years?
                                >>
                                >>Just my thoughts.
                                >>
                                >>Dr. "Q"
                                >>
                                >>Gordon L. Grening wrote:
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>>Good point taken. I wonder what members of the DAR use. Would they put
                                >>>Boston, Mass. Colony, England!!
                                >>>
                                >>>Anyone out there know any New England genealogist. I wonder if the DAR
                                >>>has
                                >>>a web site.
                                >>>
                                >>>Have a feeling my great-great grandfather would roll over in his grave if
                                >>>I
                                >>>said he was born in Hungary and not Slovakia. He was a Rusyn and from
                                >>>what
                                >>>I understand they really hated the Hungarians. But then I don't think
                                >>>they
                                >>>were too nuts about the Slovaks either.
                                >>>
                                >>>----- Original Message -----
                                >>>From: <frank.r.plichta@...>
                                >>>To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                >>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:12 AM
                                >>>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>>I have always used the place names that were in effect at the time that
                                >>>the
                                >>>event took place.
                                >>>
                                >>>I do not bother to explain the differences or the name changes in each
                                >>>individual's record. These place name changes are part of history. If
                                >>>you
                                >>>are going to do genealogy you need to know history. I maintain a
                                >>>separate
                                >>>"Place Names" file in which I show the name changes for each location of
                                >>>interest to include; villages, counties and countries. All that anyone
                                >>>needs to do first is read my "Place Names" file and then look at the
                                >>>Family
                                >>>Tree Maker file, or even look at them side by side. It will help them to
                                >>>learn a little more about history.
                                >>>
                                >>>Frank Plichta
                                >>>Galax, Virginia
                                >>>
                                >>>-----Original Message-----
                                >>>From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                                >>>On
                                >>>Behalf Of Gordon Grening
                                >>>Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:34 AM
                                >>>To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                >>>Subject: [S-R] Place Names - Modern versus old
                                >>>
                                >>>I like to poll the group members on how they are entering place names
                                >>>in their family tree software. As we all know Slovakia didn't
                                >>>actually exist until 1993, before that it was part of Czechoslovakia
                                >>>and before 1918 part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. So what do we
                                >>>put in the family tree, Slovakia, Czech., Austria-Hungary??
                                >>>
                                >>>The same applies to counties. My great grandparents are from ©ari¹,
                                >>>which doesn't exist now. The area is now part of the Pre¹ov region.
                                >>>Also the area was known as Sáros in Hungarian and Scharosch in
                                >>>German. So what name do I use.
                                >>>
                                >>>Right now I am using a combination of the old and new. I list my
                                >>>great-grandparents as being born in ©ari¹, Slovakia. But would
                                >>>Sáro,Austria-Hungary be more correct? On some of the U.S. Census they
                                >>>are listed as being born in Hungaria and on others Slovak. Do we have
                                >>>any professional genealogist out there that could weight in on this?
                                >>>
                                >>>I even have a worst problem with my father's side of the family who
                                >>>came from East Prussia. Not only did East Prussia become part of
                                >>>Poland but all of the old German place names where changed to Polish
                                >>>names. What do I use, the old Prussian name or the current Polish
                                >>>name.
                                >>>
                                >>>With the proliferation of genealogy database out there, this has
                                >>>become a critical problem. I have several cousins who have created
                                >>>family trees on various database using different birth place names
                                >>>for the same people. I'm trying to get them to all agree on a common
                                >>>naming practice but with little success. We can't even agree on the
                                >>>spelling of my grandfather's name: Frederick, Friedrick, Fredrich,
                                >>>Friedrich, etc. I use Friedrich because that is how it is spelt in
                                >>>the Family Bible and my contacts in Germany say that is the
                                >>>traditional spelling. The others being modern English corruptions of
                                >>>the name.
                                >>>



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