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Curious question about Sonntagsgrund

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  • Marilyn Hertenstein
    I ve been reviewing births and marriages from the Markusovce area, near Spisska Nova Ves in Slovakia. Many of my ancestors came from Markusovce, Teplicska and
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 25, 2006
      I've been reviewing births and marriages from the Markusovce area, near
      Spisska Nova Ves in Slovakia. Many of my ancestors came from Markusovce,
      Teplicska and Csepenfalu, but every once in a while, there is one listed
      from Sonntagsgrund. In almost all cases so far, it is either a KRISTOF or a
      LACSNY that is either a parent, bride or groom to the entry in the church
      record. The church is St. Michal the Archangel Roman Catholic Church in
      Markusovce. (I have Lacsny and Kristof marrying into my VARSA family and I
      wanted to explore more family branches and where they came from).

      My curiosity arose about the village Sonntagsgrund. The writing most of the
      time is very clear and rather beautiful penmanship. When searching the maps
      I have, I could not find a Sonntagsgrund anywhere near Markusovce, Teplicska
      or Spisska Nova Ves. I searched the Jewish ShtetleSeeker page for the city
      and came up with nothing in Slovakia, Hungary or anything spelled anything
      even close anywhere near Slovakia. I went back to the internet and finally
      found an entry listing: Horne' Prsany (Sonntagsgrund) Felsopereseny for
      listings in Slovak, German and Hungarian, presumably all for the same town,
      just in different languages. In locating Horne' Prsany in the Banska
      Bystrica area, it seems much to far away from Markusovce to be a reasonable
      location for people to travel to and have their babies baptized.

      Does anyone have any suggestions, solutions or better input on my curious
      SONNTAGSGRUND entries. Could it simply be they all came back to the same
      church and area to have their babies and to have them baptized in the same
      church. Was that a custom in the 1800's? I would enjoy hearing some points
      of view on this.

      Marilyn


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • krisstrot@aol.com
      I m sorry I can t help about Sonntagsgrund, but I did see something interesting in the records for my relatives in Neuwalddorf (near Poprad in Slovakia). This
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 25, 2006
        I'm sorry I can't help about Sonntagsgrund, but I did see something interesting in the records for my relatives in Neuwalddorf (near Poprad in Slovakia). This particular family lived in Philadelphia for a time and both of their children were born there, but the family returned to Neuwalddorf and lived there for many years after. The church records make note of the children's births and baptisms in Philadelphia. The entries are written at the bottom of the pages nearest their dates of birth. My assumption is that when they returned to Neuwalddorf, they brought the baptism records with them from Philadelphia and the information was noted in the local church records. I have one of the baptism records giving the name of the pastor in the U.S. who baptized the children, and his name is written in the records of the church in Neuwalddorf in the column for "officiant." Don't know if this is a possible explanation for what happened in your case, but thought I'd mention it because it was very interesting to me when I figured it out while viewing films of birth records in Neuwalddorf. The time frame would have been right around 1900.
        Kris

        -----Original Message-----
        From: mjhertenstein@...
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:45 AM
        Subject: [S-R] Curious question about Sonntagsgrund


        I've been reviewing births and marriages from the Markusovce area, near
        Spisska Nova Ves in Slovakia. Many of my ancestors came from Markusovce,
        Teplicska and Csepenfalu, but every once in a while, there is one listed
        from Sonntagsgrund. In almost all cases so far, it is either a KRISTOF or a
        LACSNY that is either a parent, bride or groom to the entry in the church
        record. The church is St. Michal the Archangel Roman Catholic Church in
        Markusovce. (I have Lacsny and Kristof marrying into my VARSA family and I
        wanted to explore more family branches and where they came from).

        My curiosity arose about the village Sonntagsgrund. The writing most of the
        time is very clear and rather beautiful penmanship. When searching the maps
        I have, I could not find a Sonntagsgrund anywhere near Markusovce, Teplicska
        or Spisska Nova Ves. I searched the Jewish ShtetleSeeker page for the city
        and came up with nothing in Slovakia, Hungary or anything spelled anything
        even close anywhere near Slovakia. I went back to the internet and finally
        found an entry listing: Horne' Prsany (Sonntagsgrund) Felsopereseny for
        listings in Slovak, German and Hungarian, presumably all for the same town,
        just in different languages. In locating Horne' Prsany in the Banska
        Bystrica area, it seems much to far away from Markusovce to be a reasonable
        location for people to travel to and have their babies baptized.

        Does anyone have any suggestions, solutions or better input on my curious
        SONNTAGSGRUND entries. Could it simply be they all came back to the same
        church and area to have their babies and to have them baptized in the same
        church. Was that a custom in the 1800's? I would enjoy hearing some points
        of view on this.

        Marilyn

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • johnqadam
        ... Slovak, German and Hungarian, presumably all for the same town, just in different languages. In locating Horne Prsany in the Banska Bystrica area, it
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 25, 2006
          >>> Horne' Prsany (Sonntagsgrund) Felsopereseny for listings in
          Slovak, German and Hungarian, presumably all for the same town,
          just in different languages. In locating Horne' Prsany in the Banska
          Bystrica area, it seems much to far away from Markusovce to be a
          reasonable location for people to travel to and have their babies
          baptized. . . . Could it simply be they all came back to the same
          church and area to have their babies and to have them baptized in
          the same church. <<<

          That's a HUGE distance for a mountain dweller. The one thing that
          does connect the two areas is a railway track. Still, no one is
          going to travel that distance for a baptism.

          By 1929, my mother had SEEN a car but had not travelled anywhere
          that you couldn't go on foot, or perhaps by someone else's horse
          drawn wagon. Perhaps a job opportunity would get people moving. I
          would guess a job in the area mines.

          We had one such family situation from Dubravka southward, returning
          after 10 years.

          I know that Bill T had some instances of people heading south to
          find seasonal work in eastern parts of the country.
        • Janet Kozlay
          I think we need to be careful about making blanket statements about people s behavior. Even though I would have been happier to find some clue that a
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 25, 2006
            I think we need to be careful about making blanket statements about people's
            behavior. Even though I would have been happier to find some clue that a
            Sonntagsgrund referred to a place nearer to Markusovce (and I have tried
            unsuccessfully), people did in fact travel, even "huge" distances. Whole
            families might migrate to another area for economic advantage, while some
            occupations required moving from village to village. I have considerable
            information regarding members of one family in the early 1800s who
            frequently moved long distances and traveled widely on a regular basis
            (sometimes hundreds of miles) to visit relatives. Granted, this was not the
            norm, but it did happen.



            If you think about it, family names that are based on place names were taken
            because the family CAME from that place, not that they lived there. For
            hundreds of years people moved around.



            I suggest at least giving a look at Felsopereseny to see if there is any
            evidence of the family having lived there.



            Janet





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Marilyn Hertenstein
            That s what I thought, a huge distance, yet the village name occurs several times. When would the railroad have been built in Slovakia?
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 25, 2006
              That's what I thought, a huge distance, yet the village name occurs several
              times. When would the railroad have been built in Slovakia?

              Sonntagsgrund....anyone else ever hear of a town called that near Spisska
              Nova Ves? Maybe I have the wrong one. Who knows. It's still a mystery.
              But I'll keep searching the records.

              Marilyn

              _____

              From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of johnqadam
              Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 7:37 PM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [S-R] Re: Curious question about Sonntagsgrund



              >>> Horne' Prsany (Sonntagsgrund) Felsopereseny for listings in
              Slovak, German and Hungarian, presumably all for the same town,
              just in different languages. In locating Horne' Prsany in the Banska
              Bystrica area, it seems much to far away from Markusovce to be a
              reasonable location for people to travel to and have their babies
              baptized. . . . Could it simply be they all came back to the same
              church and area to have their babies and to have them baptized in
              the same church. <<<

              That's a HUGE distance for a mountain dweller. The one thing that
              does connect the two areas is a railway track. Still, no one is
              going to travel that distance for a baptism.

              By 1929, my mother had SEEN a car but had not travelled anywhere
              that you couldn't go on foot, or perhaps by someone else's horse
              drawn wagon. Perhaps a job opportunity would get people moving. I
              would guess a job in the area mines.

              We had one such family situation from Dubravka southward, returning
              after 10 years.

              I know that Bill T had some instances of people heading south to
              find seasonal work in eastern parts of the country.






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • jnickel_o
              I think you may have the wrong Sonntagsgrung. In the parish records of Markusovce. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bakerroots/1869.html The second
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 26, 2006
                I think you may have the wrong Sonntagsgrung.

                In the parish records of Markusovce.
                http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bakerroots/1869.html

                The second line of the transcription [as well as some others] show a
                birth/christening 9/10 Jan 1869 in Sonntagsgrung.

                The parish records of Markusovce would not record the
                birth/christening if it wasn't in their parish boundaries. They might
                show a birth/christening in another village on a marriage record, but
                they wouldn't record the birth/christening on their own
                birth/christening records if the village wasn't in their boundaries.

                I think what you have "discovered" is a village name [Sonntagsgrung]
                that shows up in parish records but on no official map.

                Jim
              • johnqadam
                ... birth/christening if it wasn t in their parish boundaries.
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 26, 2006
                  >>> The parish records of Markusovce would not record the
                  birth/christening if it wasn't in their parish boundaries. <<<

                  I have to disagree. Though rare, I have seen American births noted in
                  Slovak church records.
                • Marilyn Hertenstein
                  Jim, Those are the same records I am reviewing. Your theory makes more sense. An incidental recording of someone from Sonntagsgrund might be they wanted that
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 26, 2006
                    Jim,
                    Those are the same records I am reviewing. Your theory makes more sense.
                    An incidental recording of someone from Sonntagsgrund might be they wanted
                    that birth to be recorded in that church, but when so many are listed from a
                    village, and not all the same family, your theory makes more sense. I'll
                    have to start searching for a 1870's map of that area to see if the village
                    existed.

                    Anyone know of a map from the late 1800's of the Spis area of Slovakia?

                    Marilyn

                    _____

                    From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of jnickel_o
                    Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 6:37 AM
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [S-R] Re: Curious question about Sonntagsgrund



                    I think you may have the wrong Sonntagsgrung.

                    In the parish records of Markusovce.
                    http://freepages.
                    <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bakerroots/1869.html>
                    genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bakerroots/1869.html

                    The second line of the transcription [as well as some others] show a
                    birth/christening 9/10 Jan 1869 in Sonntagsgrung.

                    The parish records of Markusovce would not record the
                    birth/christening if it wasn't in their parish boundaries. They might
                    show a birth/christening in another village on a marriage record, but
                    they wouldn't record the birth/christening on their own
                    birth/christening records if the village wasn't in their boundaries.

                    I think what you have "discovered" is a village name [Sonntagsgrung]
                    that shows up in parish records but on no official map.

                    Jim






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Vladimir Bohinc
                    John, this is not a fair comparison. While true, that one parish never recorded a baptism from another parish, it is true, that some recorded baptisms from the
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 26, 2006
                      John, this is not a fair comparison. While true, that one parish never recorded a baptism from another parish, it is true, that some recorded baptisms from the US, but only because the parents were originating from that parish.
                      Vladimir

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: johnqadam
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 3:14 PM
                      Subject: [S-R] Re: Curious question about Sonntagsgrund


                      >>> The parish records of Markusovce would not record the
                      birth/christening if it wasn't in their parish boundaries. <<<

                      I have to disagree. Though rare, I have seen American births noted in
                      Slovak church records.





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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • frank.r.plichta@earthlink.net
                      I disagree. While examining records in Kosice for Kosicka Bela I occasionally observed notations from the time after the individual departed for America.
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 26, 2006
                        I disagree. While examining records in Kosice for Kosicka Bela I
                        occasionally observed notations from the time after the individual departed
                        for America. Especially in the christening records were recorded deaths.
                        Young children who went to America with their parents and died in route or
                        soon after arriving in America.

                        Frank Plichta
                        "Searching the World for PLICHTAs"

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of johnqadam
                        Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 9:14 AM
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [S-R] Re: Curious question about Sonntagsgrund

                        >>> The parish records of Markusovce would not record the
                        birth/christening if it wasn't in their parish boundaries. <<<

                        I have to disagree. Though rare, I have seen American births noted in
                        Slovak church records.





                        To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                        http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                        SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                      • Jim
                        Re: I have to disagree. Though rare, I have seen American births noted in Slovak church records. As have I, but they don t mark up the christening records. The
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jul 26, 2006
                          Re: I have to disagree. Though rare, I have seen American births noted in
                          Slovak church records.



                          As have I, but they don't mark up the christening records. The christening
                          records are written up as they occur, i.e, they are sequential. If they were
                          to actually write in a christening records on their own records of
                          christenings [which I've never seen] they would be out of sequence.



                          The transcriptions on the web site I provided the link for shows the
                          christening records in perfect date sequence by christening date, which is
                          exactly what you would expect to see.



                          But let's suppose that this is a really rare case. What would also have to
                          be true then is that the transcriber of those records also sorted them to
                          make them sequential. [Which she should not have done.] It's easy enough to
                          e-mail her and inquire. If all of the Sonntagsgrund christenings are out of
                          date sequence, then I would agree that it's more likely to be some village
                          out of the parish boundaries.



                          You may not have looked, but there were a number of other families that had
                          children born there as well. As the number of different surnames increases
                          the likelihood that it's some distant village decreases.



                          I haven't checked for the existence of the church records for the distant
                          Sontagsgrund. But if they were actually born there, there should be
                          christening records at that location.



                          Jim







                          _____

                          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                          Behalf Of johnqadam
                          Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 9:14 AM
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [S-R] Re: Curious question about Sonntagsgrund



                          >>> The parish records of Markusovce would not record the
                          birth/christening if it wasn't in their parish boundaries. <<<

                          I have to disagree. Though rare, I have seen American births noted in
                          Slovak church records.





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Jim
                          You re describing a different circumstance. You re indicating that a christening record of that parish was marked with the death of the individual at a later
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jul 26, 2006
                            You're describing a different circumstance. You're indicating that a
                            christening record of that parish was marked with the death of the
                            individual at a later time.



                            Here's another hyptothetical. A couple is married in Slovakia, they
                            immigrate to the US, they have children. Because of some communication
                            between the US and the old village, the parish record of the marriage might
                            be annotated with the birth of the child in the US. I've seen that in fact.
                            However, they do not create a christening record of the child on the book of
                            christenings. That I have never seen or every heard of anyone seeing.



                            Jim



                            _____

                            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of frank.r.plichta@...
                            Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 10:21 AM
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [S-R] Re: Curious question about Sonntagsgrund



                            I disagree. While examining records in Kosice for Kosicka Bela I
                            occasionally observed notations from the time after the individual departed
                            for America. Especially in the christening records were recorded deaths.
                            Young children who went to America with their parents and died in route or
                            soon after arriving in America.

                            Frank Plichta
                            "Searching the World for PLICHTAs"

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                            [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                            yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of johnqadam
                            Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 9:14 AM
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [S-R] Re: Curious question about Sonntagsgrund

                            >>> The parish records of Markusovce would not record the
                            birth/christening if it wasn't in their parish boundaries. <<<

                            I have to disagree. Though rare, I have seen American births noted in
                            Slovak church records.

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                            ups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
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                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Marilyn Hertenstein
                            Just to help clarify, the URL provided for posted birth records for Markusovce are the very ones I am presently reviewing. (In fact, the second entry for the
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 26, 2006
                              Just to help clarify, the URL provided for posted birth records for
                              Markusovce are the very ones I am presently reviewing. (In fact, the second
                              entry for the Kristof birth, is the family from Sonntagsgrund I am
                              researching). I am not the person who posted them on line, but I can
                              assure you they are posted "as is" on the LDS FHC film, with no re-arranging
                              of dates, names or villages. They are in the identical order as they appear
                              on the film.

                              Marilyn

                              _____

                              From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                              Behalf Of Jim
                              Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 9:38 AM
                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [S-R] Re: Curious question about Sonntagsgrund



                              Re: I have to disagree. Though rare, I have seen American births noted in
                              Slovak church records.

                              As have I, but they don't mark up the christening records. The christening
                              records are written up as they occur, i.e, they are sequential. If they were
                              to actually write in a christening records on their own records of
                              christenings [which I've never seen] they would be out of sequence.

                              The transcriptions on the web site I provided the link for shows the
                              christening records in perfect date sequence by christening date, which is
                              exactly what you would expect to see.

                              But let's suppose that this is a really rare case. What would also have to
                              be true then is that the transcriber of those records also sorted them to
                              make them sequential. [Which she should not have done.] It's easy enough to
                              e-mail her and inquire. If all of the Sonntagsgrund christenings are out of
                              date sequence, then I would agree that it's more likely to be some village
                              out of the parish boundaries.

                              You may not have looked, but there were a number of other families that had
                              children born there as well. As the number of different surnames increases
                              the likelihood that it's some distant village decreases.

                              I haven't checked for the existence of the church records for the distant
                              Sontagsgrund. But if they were actually born there, there should be
                              christening records at that location.

                              Jim

                              _____

                              From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                              [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                              yahoogroups.com] On
                              Behalf Of johnqadam
                              Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 9:14 AM
                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [S-R] Re: Curious question about Sonntagsgrund

                              >>> The parish records of Markusovce would not record the
                              birth/christening if it wasn't in their parish boundaries. <<<

                              I have to disagree. Though rare, I have seen American births noted in
                              Slovak church records.

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Vladimir Bohinc
                              Dear Marylin, I would suggest you to post on the Karpatendeutsche List. They know every village and settlement as it had a german name.
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jul 26, 2006
                                Dear Marylin,
                                I would suggest you to post on the Karpatendeutsche List. They know every village and settlement as it had a german name.
                                Karpatendeutsche@...
                                Vladimir


                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Marilyn Hertenstein
                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 5:02 PM
                                Subject: RE: [S-R] Re: Curious question about Sonntagsgrund


                                Just to help clarify, the URL provided for posted birth records for
                                Markusovce are the very ones I am presently reviewing. (In fact, the second
                                entry for the Kristof birth, is the family from Sonntagsgrund I am
                                researching). I am not the person who posted them on line, but I can
                                assure you they are posted "as is" on the LDS FHC film, with no re-arranging
                                of dates, names or villages. They are in the identical order as they appear
                                on the film.

                                Marilyn

                                _____

                                From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                                Behalf Of Jim
                                Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 9:38 AM
                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [S-R] Re: Curious question about Sonntagsgrund

                                Re: I have to disagree. Though rare, I have seen American births noted in
                                Slovak church records.

                                As have I, but they don't mark up the christening records. The christening
                                records are written up as they occur, i.e, they are sequential. If they were
                                to actually write in a christening records on their own records of
                                christenings [which I've never seen] they would be out of sequence.

                                The transcriptions on the web site I provided the link for shows the
                                christening records in perfect date sequence by christening date, which is
                                exactly what you would expect to see.

                                But let's suppose that this is a really rare case. What would also have to
                                be true then is that the transcriber of those records also sorted them to
                                make them sequential. [Which she should not have done.] It's easy enough to
                                e-mail her and inquire. If all of the Sonntagsgrund christenings are out of
                                date sequence, then I would agree that it's more likely to be some village
                                out of the parish boundaries.

                                You may not have looked, but there were a number of other families that had
                                children born there as well. As the number of different surnames increases
                                the likelihood that it's some distant village decreases.

                                I haven't checked for the existence of the church records for the distant
                                Sontagsgrund. But if they were actually born there, there should be
                                christening records at that location.

                                Jim

                                _____

                                From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                                [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                                yahoogroups.com] On
                                Behalf Of johnqadam
                                Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 9:14 AM
                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [S-R] Re: Curious question about Sonntagsgrund

                                >>> The parish records of Markusovce would not record the
                                birth/christening if it wasn't in their parish boundaries. <<<

                                I have to disagree. Though rare, I have seen American births noted in
                                Slovak church records.

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.1673 (20060721) __________

                                Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
                                http://www.eset.sk


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • johnqadam
                                ... never recorded a baptism from another parish, it is true, that some recorded baptisms from the US, but only because the parents were originating from that
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jul 26, 2006
                                  >>> John, this is not a fair comparison. While true, that one parish
                                  never recorded a baptism from another parish, it is true, that some
                                  recorded baptisms from the US, but only because the parents were
                                  originating from that parish.
                                  Vladimir <<<

                                  You make a good point. No argument there.
                                • Janet Kozlay
                                  Someone on the Hungary board has stated that her grandfather is listed on his naturalization records as coming from Obca Brococa. She also states that he
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jul 26, 2006
                                    Someone on the Hungary board has stated that her grandfather is listed on
                                    his naturalization records as coming from "Obca Brococa." She also states
                                    that he married someone from Bracovce. No one so far has been able to locate
                                    Obca Brococa. Could the word "obca" be related to the Slovak word for
                                    citizen? Could it be translated as "citizen of Brococa"? If so, could
                                    Brococa merely be a garbled form of Bracovce (near Michalovce in Zemplin)?
                                    Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.



                                    Janet





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