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Re: [S-R] Pronunciation

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  • Vladimir Bohinc
    C with diacritics is slovak is Ch in english Ch in slovak is H in english Cs is hungarian and is Ch in english C without diactitics in slovak is Ts in german
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 26, 2006
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      C with diacritics is slovak is Ch in english
      Ch in slovak is H in english
      Cs is hungarian and is Ch in english
      C without diactitics in slovak is Ts in german (rare), but can also be found as equivalent for C with diacritics.( in earlier times, latin hungarian and german languages had problems in how to spell certain slavic sounds.The same with americans. What you find was at the mercy of the priest and his knowledge of languages and his ethnicity)
      Lojan or Loyan is the same.
      Chren is correct slovak amd means horse radish
      Chzen is bad reading
      A surname alone is not enough to positively identify a person.
      There must be some other circumstantial evidence too.( like name of wife or parents, same address i.e. house number, lack of any other similar surname in the village, surname spelling change not from one person to another but within the same person, i.e. born with one variation, married with another and died with still another, but always the same person etc.)
      Vladimir Bohinc


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Carl Kotlarchik
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:51 PM
      Subject: [S-R] Pronunciation


      Can someone help me with the pronunciation of a couple of letters?

      I know that the letter "C" with a diacritic mark in Slovak is the
      same as the letters "CS" in Hungarian and "CH" in English. As I
      trace some families back in the church records, "CS" goes to "TS" in
      the early 1800s and sometimes back to "C" with the diacritic mark in
      the earliest records. Is "TS" a Hungarian spelling and is it
      pronounced the same as "CH"? In a few cases, I have also
      found "CZ". Is that also pronounced as "CH"? How are the
      letters "CH" pronounced in Slovak and in Hungarian? Are they also
      pronounced like "CH" in English? I have found a family name of
      Chzen or possibly Chren and am curious how that would be pronounced.

      Finally, I am also tracing the surname of Lojan and I sometimes see
      it in the records as Loyan. Are these Slovak or Hungarian spellings
      of the same name and are they pronounced the same way?

      Carl Kotlarchik (and/or Kotlarcik, Kotlarcsik, Kotlartsik)

      PS. It would be really nice if the Yahoo Slovak Roots Group would
      set the default alphabet to the Central European version rather than
      the Western European. Then we could write the letters with the
      correct diacritic marks in our messages. Can this be done?





      To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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    • Vladimir Bohinc
      There is a letter which you don t have; in slovak it is written as Z with diacritics, in hungarians it s ZS and the only english equivalent is Zsa Zsa Gabor ,
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 26, 2006
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        There is a letter which you don't have;
        in slovak it is written as Z with diacritics, in hungarians it's ZS and the only "english equivalent is Zsa Zsa Gabor , who was hungarian :-)
        There is also a N with diacritics in slovak, to be pronounced as second N in El Nino, the weather phenomenon.

        Vladimir

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Carl Kotlarchik
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:51 PM
        Subject: [S-R] Pronunciation


        Can someone help me with the pronunciation of a couple of letters?

        I know that the letter "C" with a diacritic mark in Slovak is the
        same as the letters "CS" in Hungarian and "CH" in English. As I
        trace some families back in the church records, "CS" goes to "TS" in
        the early 1800s and sometimes back to "C" with the diacritic mark in
        the earliest records. Is "TS" a Hungarian spelling and is it
        pronounced the same as "CH"? In a few cases, I have also
        found "CZ". Is that also pronounced as "CH"? How are the
        letters "CH" pronounced in Slovak and in Hungarian? Are they also
        pronounced like "CH" in English? I have found a family name of
        Chzen or possibly Chren and am curious how that would be pronounced.

        Finally, I am also tracing the surname of Lojan and I sometimes see
        it in the records as Loyan. Are these Slovak or Hungarian spellings
        of the same name and are they pronounced the same way?

        Carl Kotlarchik (and/or Kotlarcik, Kotlarcsik, Kotlartsik)

        PS. It would be really nice if the Yahoo Slovak Roots Group would
        set the default alphabet to the Central European version rather than
        the Western European. Then we could write the letters with the
        correct diacritic marks in our messages. Can this be done?





        To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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      • Janet Kozlay
        To continue, cz is an obsolete Hungarian letter, now replaced by c and pronounced like ts as in tsetse. Janet _____ From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 26, 2006
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          To continue, cz is an obsolete Hungarian letter, now replaced by c and
          pronounced like ts as in tsetse.

          Janet



          _____

          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Vladimir Bohinc
          Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 12:19 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] Pronunciation



          C with diacritics is slovak is Ch in english
          Ch in slovak is H in english
          Cs is hungarian and is Ch in english
          C without diactitics in slovak is Ts in german (rare), but can also be found
          as equivalent for C with diacritics.( in earlier times, latin hungarian and
          german languages had problems in how to spell certain slavic sounds.The same
          with americans. What you find was at the mercy of the priest and his
          knowledge of languages and his ethnicity)
          Lojan or Loyan is the same.
          Chren is correct slovak amd means horse radish
          Chzen is bad reading
          A surname alone is not enough to positively identify a person.
          There must be some other circumstantial evidence too.( like name of wife or
          parents, same address i.e. house number, lack of any other similar surname
          in the village, surname spelling change not from one person to another but
          within the same person, i.e. born with one variation, married with another
          and died with still another, but always the same person etc.)
          Vladimir Bohinc


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Carl Kotlarchik
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:51 PM
          Subject: [S-R] Pronunciation


          Can someone help me with the pronunciation of a couple of letters?

          I know that the letter "C" with a diacritic mark in Slovak is the
          same as the letters "CS" in Hungarian and "CH" in English. As I
          trace some families back in the church records, "CS" goes to "TS" in
          the early 1800s and sometimes back to "C" with the diacritic mark in
          the earliest records. Is "TS" a Hungarian spelling and is it
          pronounced the same as "CH"? In a few cases, I have also
          found "CZ". Is that also pronounced as "CH"? How are the
          letters "CH" pronounced in Slovak and in Hungarian? Are they also
          pronounced like "CH" in English? I have found a family name of
          Chzen or possibly Chren and am curious how that would be pronounced.

          Finally, I am also tracing the surname of Lojan and I sometimes see
          it in the records as Loyan. Are these Slovak or Hungarian spellings
          of the same name and are they pronounced the same way?

          Carl Kotlarchik (and/or Kotlarcik, Kotlarcsik, Kotlartsik)

          PS. It would be really nice if the Yahoo Slovak Roots Group would
          set the default alphabet to the Central European version rather than
          the Western European. Then we could write the letters with the
          correct diacritic marks in our messages. Can this be done?





          To unsubscribe from this group, go to
          http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
          SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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          genealogy
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        • bhewlett@verizon.net
          Hi Carl, If you want to actually hear how the letters are pronounced go to: http://www.slovak.com/language/index.html and turn up your speakers. Can learn a
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 26, 2006
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            Hi Carl,
            If you want to actually hear how the letters are pronounced go to:
            http://www.slovak.com/language/index.html
            and turn up your speakers. Can learn a little Slovak while you are at it.
            Joyce


            >From: Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@...>
            >Date: Sun Feb 26 11:48:03 CST 2006
            >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [S-R] Pronunciation

            >There is a letter which you don't have;
            >in slovak it is written as Z with diacritics, in hungarians it's ZS and the only "english equivalent is Zsa Zsa Gabor , who was hungarian :-)
            >There is also a N with diacritics in slovak, to be pronounced as second N in El Nino, the weather phenomenon.
            >
            >Vladimir
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Carl Kotlarchik
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:51 PM
            > Subject: [S-R] Pronunciation
            >
            >
            > Can someone help me with the pronunciation of a couple of letters?
            >
            > I know that the letter "C" with a diacritic mark in Slovak is the
            > same as the letters "CS" in Hungarian and "CH" in English. As I
            > trace some families back in the church records, "CS" goes to "TS" in
            > the early 1800s and sometimes back to "C" with the diacritic mark in
            > the earliest records. Is "TS" a Hungarian spelling and is it
            > pronounced the same as "CH"? In a few cases, I have also
            > found "CZ". Is that also pronounced as "CH"? How are the
            > letters "CH" pronounced in Slovak and in Hungarian? Are they also
            > pronounced like "CH" in English? I have found a family name of
            > Chzen or possibly Chren and am curious how that would be pronounced.
            >
            > Finally, I am also tracing the surname of Lojan and I sometimes see
            > it in the records as Loyan. Are these Slovak or Hungarian spellings
            > of the same name and are they pronounced the same way?
            >
            > Carl Kotlarchik (and/or Kotlarcik, Kotlarcsik, Kotlartsik)
            >
            > PS. It would be really nice if the Yahoo Slovak Roots Group would
            > set the default alphabet to the Central European version rather than
            > the Western European. Then we could write the letters with the
            > correct diacritic marks in our messages. Can this be done?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
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            > Family vacations Genealogy family tree
            >
            >
            >------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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            >
            > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
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            >
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            >
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            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
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          • Vladimir Bohinc
            what I got was e with accent to the left. Vladimir ... From: Carl Kotlarchik To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 7:40 PM Subject:
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 26, 2006
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              what I got was e with accent to the left.
              Vladimir

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Carl Kotlarchik
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 7:40 PM
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Pronunciation


              Yes, I use the various alphabets with Microsoft XP and they work in
              my off-line documents. However, when I tried to post my surname in
              the Slovak Roots database, the letters did not come through
              correctly. For example, if you look in the database for the surname
              Kotlarèik/Kotlarcsik/Kotlarchik, you will see that the è appears as
              an e. Unfortunately, you cannot edit or erase anything in the
              database once it is posted. So if it is appears incorrectly, it
              stays that way. I am not sure if the c with the diacritic mark (è)
              will come through in this note either. So lets see if it does.
              Carl


              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "S. R." <srkrizan@...> wrote:
              >
              > I can answer the PS. Microsoft XP has the additional alphabets
              for FREE.
              > Just add Czech, Slovak & the harder one Hungarian to a drop down
              menu. The
              > positions of Slovak are easy to write on you keyboard.
              > You can switch keyboard with one click of your mouse. Write me
              off line if
              > you want further details.
              > Simon R. "Sam" Krizan SRkrizan@... 1.847.398.7812
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
              ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
              > Behalf Of Carl Kotlarchik
              > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:51 AM
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [S-R] Pronunciation
              > Can someone help me with the pronunciation of a couple of letters?
              >
              > I know that the letter "C" with a diacritic mark in Slovak is the
              > same as the letters "CS" in Hungarian and "CH" in English. As I
              > trace some families back in the church records, "CS" goes to "TS"
              in
              > the early 1800s and sometimes back to "C" with the diacritic mark
              in
              > the earliest records. Is "TS" a Hungarian spelling and is it
              > pronounced the same as "CH"? In a few cases, I have also
              > found "CZ". Is that also pronounced as "CH"? How are the
              > letters "CH" pronounced in Slovak and in Hungarian? Are they also
              > pronounced like "CH" in English? I have found a family name of
              > Chzen or possibly Chren and am curious how that would be
              pronounced.
              >
              > Finally, I am also tracing the surname of Lojan and I sometimes see
              > it in the records as Loyan. Are these Slovak or Hungarian
              spellings
              > of the same name and are they pronounced the same way?
              >
              > Carl Kotlarchik (and/or Kotlarcik, Kotlarcsik, Kotlartsik)
              >
              > PS. It would be really nice if the Yahoo Slovak Roots Group would
              > set the default alphabet to the Central European version rather
              than
              > the Western European. Then we could write the letters with the
              > correct diacritic marks in our messages. Can this be done?
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >







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            • Antal Burjan
              Hi, I would like to post a set of brief rules for Hungarian pronounciation. Hungarian is a very difficult language, but its pronounciation is not as difficult
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 26, 2006
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                Hi,

                I would like to post a set of brief rules for Hungarian pronounciation. Hungarian is a very difficult language, but its pronounciation is not as difficult (as it may appear to the first time listener/reader), because there are some rules to follow and no instinct is needed to know how to pronounce each Hungarian word (name) (How desperately poor would be the mankind if there were rules for English pronounciation as well and one of the above would be correct: either Marlboro, Edinboro or for sofisticated and nostalgic people: Marlborough, Edinborough :-D)

                So, a most confusing feature of Hungarian spelling is the use of double letters. It is the same trick English also uses for instance in "ch" for only one sound, bu in Hungarian there are much more examples, as you can see below:

                cs --> Eng. ch (in surnames, where traditional spelling is preserved you may notice: ts or ch for the same: Kovács, Kováts, Kovách are all valid spellings, but only the first one is in line with present Hungarian spelling rules.
                dz --> Quite a rare sound it is exactly the same what you would imagine: a d and a z pronounced together. The best example would be Dzurinda :-D
                dzs --> the only Hungarian sound spelled with 3 letters. It is the same sound as "j" in the word "jungle",a word that has actually entered into Hungarian as "dzsungel". It is extremely rare, I only mention it for completeness. Actually dz and dzs are sometimes simply omitted from the Hungarian alphabet.
                gy--> a Slavic sound, a soft "d". Try to pronounce a d followed immediately by a very short "y". If you speak any Slav language (Slovak included) it won't be a problem, though in Polish this sound is pronounced more like the "dzs" sound presented above.
                ly -->once upon a time (roughly around 100 or so years ago it was still a separate sound, similar to Spanish "ll", Portuguese "lh" or Italian "gl". Nowadays it is nothing more than a separate way of writing "j" prononunced exactly in the same way as J for "Johann" in German, or Jan in Slovak. TAKE SPECIAL CARE, AT THE END OF SURNAMES IT ALWAYS READS AS "LI". For instance the surname Kukorelly should be read "ku-ko-rel-li" rather than "ku-ko-rell" or "ku-ko-rejj".
                ny --> similar to Spanish "n~", Portuguese "nh", Italian "gn" or the beginning of the English word "new" (I would spell this English word as "nyú" if I were to write it in Hungarian)
                sz --> it is the same old sound you see written in English as "s". Nothing special, no extra efforts... it's exactly the same. If I were to spell "Sam" in Hungarian I would put "szem".
                ty--> another sound of Slavic origin, according to linguists the newest sound in Hungarian, acquired in the last millenium of our existence after meeting Slavic tribes. It is similar to "gy" but rather than "d"+"y" it is "t"+"y". If you speak Slovak, once again you'll know how to prononunce it.
                zs-->like "j" in French "jeune". Take care not to confuse it with "sz".

                Other consonants different from English ones:

                c--> ts (tse-tse fly in Hungarian is cecelégy)
                g--> ALWAYS a G as in glory and NEVER a G as in George.
                j--> ALWAYS like "y" in the word "yard", NEVER the sound "j" as in Jane.
                r--> a Spanish "r" please, not an English one
                s-->ALWAYS "sh" kóser=kosher

                Sounds (letters) similar to English: b, d, f, h, k, l, m, n, p, t, v, z
                q,x and w are only present in traditional spelling (surnames as Weöres, Quintus, Xantus, sometimes in given names, but very rarely: Xavér)
                Y is only present as the second letter of some double letter sounds: gy, ny, ty, never alone on its own. In traditional spelling, though it can appear at the end of surnames also separately, denoting in the first place noble origin: Pálffy, Buday, etc. Please note that these names usually have another spelling in "i" also: Pálfi, Budai, etc for members of families with the same name but not of noble origin.

                Problem might occur for foreigners when reading Hungarian names (words) that contain double SOUNDS. NOT one sound writeen by 2 letters as in the cases above, but one double consonant prononunced roughly two times as long as its short counterpair. (The phenomenon exists in English to, but not for all sounds: muffin, (and not mufin) etc.) EVERY Hungarian sound may be doubled (vowels lengthened). So we have bb, cc, dd, ff, gg, and so on and so forth all being the double sound of their respective "regular" consonants. Due to the fact that ALL Hungarian sounds can be doubled, of course sounds written with 2 letters can also be doubled. The basic rule is that (unlike a century ago) we double the first consonant only and write to the end the second consonant of the sound rather than writing it twice. In the past double "cs" used to be spelled as "cscs" but now it is "ccs" and alike: "ddz" or "nny" or "tty". However if you have to split the word into syllables, you still write cs-cs and
                dz-dz. For instance the word "loccsan" you split in syllables as "locs-csan".

                Some composed words are sometimes difficult to separate and only a knowledge of the words involved can help to separate (=write, pronounce) them corrrectly: "egészség". It can either be (theoretically, at least) egés/zség or egész/ség. (Spelled in the same way but read differently and only one of them being a valid Hungarian word.) Knowing that "egész" means "entire, total" and "-ség" is a suffix at the end of adjectives to make them nouns one can easily prononuce it: egész-ség (eges-sheg).

                Some archaic Hungarian surnames preserved the spelling and changed the pronounciation. You must learn them one by one, just like us :-) if you want to spell/prononuce them correctly: Batthyányi, Weöres, Wesselényi, Kossuth, Széchenyi...).

                I hope this short lesson helped a bit :-)


                Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@...> escribió:
                what I got was e with accent to the left.
                Vladimir

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Carl Kotlarchik
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 7:40 PM
                Subject: Re: [S-R] Pronunciation


                Yes, I use the various alphabets with Microsoft XP and they work in
                my off-line documents. However, when I tried to post my surname in
                the Slovak Roots database, the letters did not come through
                correctly. For example, if you look in the database for the surname
                Kotlarèik/Kotlarcsik/Kotlarchik, you will see that the è appears as
                an e. Unfortunately, you cannot edit or erase anything in the
                database once it is posted. So if it is appears incorrectly, it
                stays that way. I am not sure if the c with the diacritic mark (è)
                will come through in this note either. So lets see if it does.
                Carl


                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "S. R." <srkrizan@...> wrote:
                >
                > I can answer the PS. Microsoft XP has the additional alphabets
                for FREE.
                > Just add Czech, Slovak & the harder one Hungarian to a drop down
                menu. The
                > positions of Slovak are easy to write on you keyboard.
                > You can switch keyboard with one click of your mouse. Write me
                off line if
                > you want further details.
                > Simon R. "Sam" Krizan SRkrizan@... 1.847.398.7812
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
                ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
                > Behalf Of Carl Kotlarchik
                > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:51 AM
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [S-R] Pronunciation
                > Can someone help me with the pronunciation of a couple of letters?
                >
                > I know that the letter "C" with a diacritic mark in Slovak is the
                > same as the letters "CS" in Hungarian and "CH" in English. As I
                > trace some families back in the church records, "CS" goes to "TS"
                in
                > the early 1800s and sometimes back to "C" with the diacritic mark
                in
                > the earliest records. Is "TS" a Hungarian spelling and is it
                > pronounced the same as "CH"? In a few cases, I have also
                > found "CZ". Is that also pronounced as "CH"? How are the
                > letters "CH" pronounced in Slovak and in Hungarian? Are they also
                > pronounced like "CH" in English? I have found a family name of
                > Chzen or possibly Chren and am curious how that would be
                pronounced.
                >
                > Finally, I am also tracing the surname of Lojan and I sometimes see
                > it in the records as Loyan. Are these Slovak or Hungarian
                spellings
                > of the same name and are they pronounced the same way?
                >
                > Carl Kotlarchik (and/or Kotlarcik, Kotlarcsik, Kotlartsik)
                >
                > PS. It would be really nice if the Yahoo Slovak Roots Group would
                > set the default alphabet to the Central European version rather
                than
                > the Western European. Then we could write the letters with the
                > correct diacritic marks in our messages. Can this be done?
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >







                To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                ---------------------------------
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                ---------------------------------

                LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo.
                Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto.
                http://es.voice.yahoo.com

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Carl Kotlarchik
                Hi Vladimir, Try right clicking on the message and then left click on encoding . Then hit the Central European type. That should give you the correct
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 26, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Vladimir,
                  Try right clicking on the message and then left click on "encoding".
                  Then hit the "Central European" type. That should give you the
                  correct spelling.
                  with best regards,
                  Carl
                  Ps. I still think that the default in this group should be the
                  Central European type instead of the Western European type. After
                  all, we are Slovaks aren't we.


                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Vladimir Bohinc" <konekta@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > what I got was e with accent to the left.
                  > Vladimir
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Carl Kotlarchik
                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 7:40 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [S-R] Pronunciation
                  >
                  >
                  > Yes, I use the various alphabets with Microsoft XP and they work
                  in
                  > my off-line documents. However, when I tried to post my surname
                  in
                  > the Slovak Roots database, the letters did not come through
                  > correctly. For example, if you look in the database for the
                  surname
                  > Kotlarèik/Kotlarcsik/Kotlarchik, you will see that the è appears
                  as
                  > an e. Unfortunately, you cannot edit or erase anything in the
                  > database once it is posted. So if it is appears incorrectly, it
                  > stays that way. I am not sure if the c with the diacritic mark
                  (è)
                  > will come through in this note either. So lets see if it does.
                  > Carl
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "S. R." <srkrizan@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I can answer the PS. Microsoft XP has the additional
                  alphabets
                  > for FREE.
                  > > Just add Czech, Slovak & the harder one Hungarian to a drop
                  down
                  > menu. The
                  > > positions of Slovak are easy to write on you keyboard.
                  > > You can switch keyboard with one click of your mouse. Write
                  me
                  > off line if
                  > > you want further details.
                  > > Simon R. "Sam" Krizan SRkrizan@ 1.847.398.7812
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
                  > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
                  > > Behalf Of Carl Kotlarchik
                  > > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:51 AM
                  > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [S-R] Pronunciation
                  > > Can someone help me with the pronunciation of a couple of
                  letters?
                  > >
                  > > I know that the letter "C" with a diacritic mark in Slovak is
                  the
                  > > same as the letters "CS" in Hungarian and "CH" in English. As
                  I
                  > > trace some families back in the church records, "CS" goes
                  to "TS"
                  > in
                  > > the early 1800s and sometimes back to "C" with the diacritic
                  mark
                  > in
                  > > the earliest records. Is "TS" a Hungarian spelling and is it
                  > > pronounced the same as "CH"? In a few cases, I have also
                  > > found "CZ". Is that also pronounced as "CH"? How are the
                  > > letters "CH" pronounced in Slovak and in Hungarian? Are they
                  also
                  > > pronounced like "CH" in English? I have found a family name of
                  > > Chzen or possibly Chren and am curious how that would be
                  > pronounced.
                  > >
                  > > Finally, I am also tracing the surname of Lojan and I
                  sometimes see
                  > > it in the records as Loyan. Are these Slovak or Hungarian
                  > spellings
                  > > of the same name and are they pronounced the same way?
                  > >
                  > > Carl Kotlarchik (and/or Kotlarcik, Kotlarcsik, Kotlartsik)
                  > >
                  > > PS. It would be really nice if the Yahoo Slovak Roots Group
                  would
                  > > set the default alphabet to the Central European version
                  rather
                  > than
                  > > the Western European. Then we could write the letters with the
                  > > correct diacritic marks in our messages. Can this be done?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
                  email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > SPONSORED LINKS Genealogy research Cellular phone family plan
                  Family genealogy
                  > Family vacations Genealogy family tree
                  >
                  >
                  > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                  -----------
                  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                  >
                  > a.. Visit your group "SLOVAK-ROOTS" on the web.
                  >
                  > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                  of Service.
                  >
                  >
                  > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                  -----------
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.1418 (20060224) __________
                  >
                  > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
                  > http://www.eset.sk
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Carl Kotlarchik
                  ... pronunciations. For those of us who do not speak Slovak or Hungarian, it is very difficult to translate the records with any understanding of the
                  Message 8 of 9 , Feb 26, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Antal Burjan
                    <hungaricus_1969@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Antal,
                    > Thank you very much for a very comprehensive set of
                    pronunciations. For those of us who do not speak Slovak or
                    Hungarian, it is very difficult to translate the records with any
                    understanding of the pronunciation. I am often asked to pronounce
                    my surname but I am never sure that I now pronounce it like it would
                    have been pronounced in the "old country". So, how would Kotlarchik
                    be pronounced in Slovakia? I have often wondered how Kotlar is
                    pronounced in Slovak. I pronounce it as "Cutlarchik" even though I
                    realize it is spelled as Cotlarchik. So, how is Kotlarčik
                    pronounced in Slovakia today?



                    > I would like to post a set of brief rules for Hungarian
                    pronounciation. Hungarian is a very difficult language, but its
                    pronounciation is not as difficult (as it may appear to the first
                    time listener/reader), because there are some rules to follow and no
                    instinct is needed to know how to pronounce each Hungarian word
                    (name) (How desperately poor would be the mankind if there were
                    rules for English pronounciation as well and one of the above would
                    be correct: either Marlboro, Edinboro or for sofisticated and
                    nostalgic people: Marlborough, Edinborough :-D)
                    >
                    > So, a most confusing feature of Hungarian spelling is the use of
                    double letters. It is the same trick English also uses for instance
                    in "ch" for only one sound, bu in Hungarian there are much more
                    examples, as you can see below:
                    >
                    > cs --> Eng. ch (in surnames, where traditional spelling is
                    preserved you may notice: ts or ch for the same: Kovács, Kováts,
                    Kovách are all valid spellings, but only the first one is in line
                    with present Hungarian spelling rules.
                    > dz --> Quite a rare sound it is exactly the same what you would
                    imagine: a d and a z pronounced together. The best example would be
                    Dzurinda :-D
                    > dzs --> the only Hungarian sound spelled with 3 letters. It is
                    the same sound as "j" in the word "jungle",a word that has actually
                    entered into Hungarian as "dzsungel". It is extremely rare, I only
                    mention it for completeness. Actually dz and dzs are sometimes
                    simply omitted from the Hungarian alphabet.
                    > gy--> a Slavic sound, a soft "d". Try to pronounce a d followed
                    immediately by a very short "y". If you speak any Slav language
                    (Slovak included) it won't be a problem, though in Polish this sound
                    is pronounced more like the "dzs" sound presented above.
                    > ly -->once upon a time (roughly around 100 or so years ago it
                    was still a separate sound, similar to Spanish "ll", Portuguese "lh"
                    or Italian "gl". Nowadays it is nothing more than a separate way of
                    writing "j" prononunced exactly in the same way as J for "Johann"
                    in German, or Jan in Slovak. TAKE SPECIAL CARE, AT THE END OF
                    SURNAMES IT ALWAYS READS AS "LI". For instance the surname Kukorelly
                    should be read "ku-ko-rel-li" rather than "ku-ko-rell" or "ku-ko-
                    rejj".
                    > ny --> similar to Spanish "n~", Portuguese "nh", Italian "gn" or
                    the beginning of the English word "new" (I would spell this English
                    word as "nyú" if I were to write it in Hungarian)
                    > sz --> it is the same old sound you see written in English
                    as "s". Nothing special, no extra efforts... it's exactly the same.
                    If I were to spell "Sam" in Hungarian I would put "szem".
                    > ty--> another sound of Slavic origin, according to linguists the
                    newest sound in Hungarian, acquired in the last millenium of our
                    existence after meeting Slavic tribes. It is similar to "gy" but
                    rather than "d"+"y" it is "t"+"y". If you speak Slovak, once again
                    you'll know how to prononunce it.
                    > zs-->like "j" in French "jeune". Take care not to confuse it
                    with "sz".
                    >
                    > Other consonants different from English ones:
                    >
                    > c--> ts (tse-tse fly in Hungarian is cecelégy)
                    > g--> ALWAYS a G as in glory and NEVER a G as in George.
                    > j--> ALWAYS like "y" in the word "yard", NEVER the sound "j" as
                    in Jane.
                    > r--> a Spanish "r" please, not an English one
                    > s-->ALWAYS "sh" kóser=kosher
                    >
                    > Sounds (letters) similar to English: b, d, f, h, k, l, m, n, p,
                    t, v, z
                    > q,x and w are only present in traditional spelling (surnames as
                    Weöres, Quintus, Xantus, sometimes in given names, but very rarely:
                    Xavér)
                    > Y is only present as the second letter of some double letter
                    sounds: gy, ny, ty, never alone on its own. In traditional spelling,
                    though it can appear at the end of surnames also separately,
                    denoting in the first place noble origin: Pálffy, Buday, etc. Please
                    note that these names usually have another spelling in "i" also:
                    Pálfi, Budai, etc for members of families with the same name but not
                    of noble origin.
                    >
                    > Problem might occur for foreigners when reading Hungarian names
                    (words) that contain double SOUNDS. NOT one sound writeen by 2
                    letters as in the cases above, but one double consonant prononunced
                    roughly two times as long as its short counterpair. (The phenomenon
                    exists in English to, but not for all sounds: muffin, (and not
                    mufin) etc.) EVERY Hungarian sound may be doubled (vowels
                    lengthened). So we have bb, cc, dd, ff, gg, and so on and so forth
                    all being the double sound of their respective "regular" consonants.
                    Due to the fact that ALL Hungarian sounds can be doubled, of course
                    sounds written with 2 letters can also be doubled. The basic rule is
                    that (unlike a century ago) we double the first consonant only and
                    write to the end the second consonant of the sound rather than
                    writing it twice. In the past double "cs" used to be spelled
                    as "cscs" but now it is "ccs" and alike: "ddz" or "nny" or "tty".
                    However if you have to split the word into syllables, you still
                    write cs-cs and
                    > dz-dz. For instance the word "loccsan" you split in syllables
                    as "locs-csan".
                    >
                    > Some composed words are sometimes difficult to separate and only
                    a knowledge of the words involved can help to separate (=write,
                    pronounce) them corrrectly: "egészség". It can either be
                    (theoretically, at least) egés/zség or egész/ség. (Spelled in the
                    same way but read differently and only one of them being a valid
                    Hungarian word.) Knowing that "egész" means "entire, total" and "-
                    ség" is a suffix at the end of adjectives to make them nouns one
                    can easily prononuce it: egész-ség (eges-sheg).
                    >
                    > Some archaic Hungarian surnames preserved the spelling and
                    changed the pronounciation. You must learn them one by one, just
                    like us :-) if you want to spell/prononuce them correctly:
                    Batthyányi, Weöres, Wesselényi, Kossuth, Széchenyi...).
                    >
                    > I hope this short lesson helped a bit :-)
                    >
                    >
                    > Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@...> escribió:
                    > what I got was e with accent to the left.
                    > Vladimir
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Carl Kotlarchik
                    > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 7:40 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [S-R] Pronunciation
                    >
                    >
                    > Yes, I use the various alphabets with Microsoft XP and they work
                    in
                    > my off-line documents. However, when I tried to post my surname
                    in
                    > the Slovak Roots database, the letters did not come through
                    > correctly. For example, if you look in the database for the
                    surname
                    > Kotlarèik/Kotlarcsik/Kotlarchik, you will see that the è appears
                    as
                    > an e. Unfortunately, you cannot edit or erase anything in the
                    > database once it is posted. So if it is appears incorrectly, it
                    > stays that way. I am not sure if the c with the diacritic mark
                    (è)
                    > will come through in this note either. So lets see if it does.
                    > Carl
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "S. R." <srkrizan@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I can answer the PS. Microsoft XP has the additional
                    alphabets
                    > for FREE.
                    > > Just add Czech, Slovak & the harder one Hungarian to a drop
                    down
                    > menu. The
                    > > positions of Slovak are easy to write on you keyboard.
                    > > You can switch keyboard with one click of your mouse. Write
                    me
                    > off line if
                    > > you want further details.
                    > > Simon R. "Sam" Krizan SRkrizan@ 1.847.398.7812
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
                    > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
                    > > Behalf Of Carl Kotlarchik
                    > > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:51 AM
                    > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: [S-R] Pronunciation
                    > > Can someone help me with the pronunciation of a couple of
                    letters?
                    > >
                    > > I know that the letter "C" with a diacritic mark in Slovak is
                    the
                    > > same as the letters "CS" in Hungarian and "CH" in English. As
                    I
                    > > trace some families back in the church records, "CS" goes
                    to "TS"
                    > in
                    > > the early 1800s and sometimes back to "C" with the diacritic
                    mark
                    > in
                    > > the earliest records. Is "TS" a Hungarian spelling and is it
                    > > pronounced the same as "CH"? In a few cases, I have also
                    > > found "CZ". Is that also pronounced as "CH"? How are the
                    > > letters "CH" pronounced in Slovak and in Hungarian? Are they
                    also
                    > > pronounced like "CH" in English? I have found a family name of
                    > > Chzen or possibly Chren and am curious how that would be
                    > pronounced.
                    > >
                    > > Finally, I am also tracing the surname of Lojan and I
                    sometimes see
                    > > it in the records as Loyan. Are these Slovak or Hungarian
                    > spellings
                    > > of the same name and are they pronounced the same way?
                    > >
                    > > Carl Kotlarchik (and/or Kotlarcik, Kotlarcsik, Kotlartsik)
                    > >
                    > > PS. It would be really nice if the Yahoo Slovak Roots Group
                    would
                    > > set the default alphabet to the Central European version
                    rather
                    > than
                    > > the Western European. Then we could write the letters with the
                    > > correct diacritic marks in our messages. Can this be done?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
                    email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > SPONSORED LINKS Genealogy research Cellular phone family plan
                    Family genealogy
                    > Family vacations Genealogy family tree
                    >
                    >
                    > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                    -----------
                    > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                    >
                    > a.. Visit your group "SLOVAK-ROOTS" on the web.
                    >
                    > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                    of Service.
                    >
                    >
                    > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                    -----------
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.1418 (20060224) __________
                    >
                    > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
                    > http://www.eset.sk
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
                    email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > SPONSORED LINKS
                    > Genealogy research Cellular phone family plan Family
                    genealogy Family vacations Genealogy family tree
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                    >
                    >
                    > Visit your group "SLOVAK-ROOTS" on the web.
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    Service.
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    >
                    > LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo.
                    > Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto.
                    > http://es.voice.yahoo.com
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Tom Potsko
                    Thank you, Antal. I ll keep this, as well as the others here in this topic, this group is great.. Tom ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    Message 9 of 9 , Feb 27, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thank you, Antal. I'll keep this, as well as the others here in this topic,
                      this group is great.. Tom

                      On 2/26/06, Antal Burjan <hungaricus_1969@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi,
                      >
                      > I would like to post a set of brief rules for Hungarian pronounciation.
                      > Hungarian is a very difficult language, but its pronounciation is not as
                      > difficult (as it may appear to the first time listener/reader), because
                      > there are some rules to follow and no instinct is needed to know how to
                      > pronounce each Hungarian word (name) (How desperately poor would be the
                      > mankind if there were rules for English pronounciation as well and one of
                      > the above would be correct: either Marlboro, Edinboro or for sofisticated
                      > and nostalgic people: Marlborough, Edinborough :-D)
                      >
                      > So, a most confusing feature of Hungarian spelling is the use of double
                      > letters. It is the same trick English also uses for instance in "ch" for
                      > only one sound, bu in Hungarian there are much more examples, as you can see
                      > below:
                      >
                      > cs --> Eng. ch (in surnames, where traditional spelling is preserved you
                      > may notice: ts or ch for the same: Kovács, Kováts, Kovách are all valid
                      > spellings, but only the first one is in line with present Hungarian spelling
                      > rules.
                      > dz --> Quite a rare sound it is exactly the same what you would imagine: a
                      > d and a z pronounced together. The best example would be Dzurinda :-D
                      > dzs --> the only Hungarian sound spelled with 3 letters. It is the same
                      > sound as "j" in the word "jungle",a word that has actually entered into
                      > Hungarian as "dzsungel". It is extremely rare, I only mention it for
                      > completeness. Actually dz and dzs are sometimes simply omitted from the
                      > Hungarian alphabet.
                      > gy--> a Slavic sound, a soft "d". Try to pronounce a d followed
                      > immediately by a very short "y". If you speak any Slav language (Slovak
                      > included) it won't be a problem, though in Polish this sound is pronounced
                      > more like the "dzs" sound presented above.
                      > ly -->once upon a time (roughly around 100 or so years ago it was still a
                      > separate sound, similar to Spanish "ll", Portuguese "lh" or Italian "gl".
                      > Nowadays it is nothing more than a separate way of writing "j" prononunced
                      > exactly in the same way as J for "Johann" in German, or Jan in Slovak. TAKE
                      > SPECIAL CARE, AT THE END OF SURNAMES IT ALWAYS READS AS "LI". For instance
                      > the surname Kukorelly should be read "ku-ko-rel-li" rather than "ku-ko-rell"
                      > or "ku-ko-rejj".
                      > ny --> similar to Spanish "n~", Portuguese "nh", Italian "gn" or the
                      > beginning of the English word "new" (I would spell this English word as
                      > "nyú" if I were to write it in Hungarian)
                      > sz --> it is the same old sound you see written in English as "s". Nothing
                      > special, no extra efforts... it's exactly the same. If I were to spell "Sam"
                      > in Hungarian I would put "szem".
                      > ty--> another sound of Slavic origin, according to linguists the newest
                      > sound in Hungarian, acquired in the last millenium of our existence after
                      > meeting Slavic tribes. It is similar to "gy" but rather than "d"+"y" it is
                      > "t"+"y". If you speak Slovak, once again you'll know how to prononunce it.
                      > zs-->like "j" in French "jeune". Take care not to confuse it with "sz".
                      >
                      > Other consonants different from English ones:
                      >
                      > c--> ts (tse-tse fly in Hungarian is cecelégy)
                      > g--> ALWAYS a G as in glory and NEVER a G as in George.
                      > j--> ALWAYS like "y" in the word "yard", NEVER the sound "j" as in Jane.
                      > r--> a Spanish "r" please, not an English one
                      > s-->ALWAYS "sh" kóser=kosher
                      >
                      > Sounds (letters) similar to English: b, d, f, h, k, l, m, n, p, t, v, z
                      > q,x and w are only present in traditional spelling (surnames as Weöres,
                      > Quintus, Xantus, sometimes in given names, but very rarely: Xavér)
                      > Y is only present as the second letter of some double letter sounds: gy,
                      > ny, ty, never alone on its own. In traditional spelling, though it can
                      > appear at the end of surnames also separately, denoting in the first place
                      > noble origin: Pálffy, Buday, etc. Please note that these names usually have
                      > another spelling in "i" also: Pálfi, Budai, etc for members of families with
                      > the same name but not of noble origin.
                      >
                      > Problem might occur for foreigners when reading Hungarian names (words)
                      > that contain double SOUNDS. NOT one sound writeen by 2 letters as in the
                      > cases above, but one double consonant prononunced roughly two times as long
                      > as its short counterpair. (The phenomenon exists in English to, but not for
                      > all sounds: muffin, (and not mufin) etc.) EVERY Hungarian sound may be
                      > doubled (vowels lengthened). So we have bb, cc, dd, ff, gg, and so on and so
                      > forth all being the double sound of their respective "regular" consonants.
                      > Due to the fact that ALL Hungarian sounds can be doubled, of course sounds
                      > written with 2 letters can also be doubled. The basic rule is that (unlike a
                      > century ago) we double the first consonant only and write to the end the
                      > second consonant of the sound rather than writing it twice. In the past
                      > double "cs" used to be spelled as "cscs" but now it is "ccs" and alike:
                      > "ddz" or "nny" or "tty". However if you have to split the word into
                      > syllables, you still write cs-cs and
                      > dz-dz. For instance the word "loccsan" you split in syllables as
                      > "locs-csan".
                      >
                      > Some composed words are sometimes difficult to separate and only a
                      > knowledge of the words involved can help to separate (=write, pronounce)
                      > them corrrectly: "egészség". It can either be (theoretically, at least)
                      > egés/zség or egész/ség. (Spelled in the same way but read differently and
                      > only one of them being a valid Hungarian word.) Knowing that "egész" means
                      > "entire, total" and "-ség" is a suffix at the end of adjectives to make them
                      > nouns one can easily prononuce it: egész-ség (eges-sheg).
                      >
                      > Some archaic Hungarian surnames preserved the spelling and changed the
                      > pronounciation. You must learn them one by one, just like us :-) if you want
                      > to spell/prononuce them correctly: Batthyányi, Weöres, Wesselényi, Kossuth,
                      > Széchenyi...).
                      >
                      > I hope this short lesson helped a bit :-)
                      >
                      >
                      > Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@...> escribió:
                      > what I got was e with accent to the left.
                      > Vladimir
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Carl Kotlarchik
                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 7:40 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Pronunciation
                      >
                      >
                      > Yes, I use the various alphabets with Microsoft XP and they work in
                      > my off-line documents. However, when I tried to post my surname in
                      > the Slovak Roots database, the letters did not come through
                      > correctly. For example, if you look in the database for the surname
                      > Kotlarèik/Kotlarcsik/Kotlarchik, you will see that the è appears as
                      > an e. Unfortunately, you cannot edit or erase anything in the
                      > database once it is posted. So if it is appears incorrectly, it
                      > stays that way. I am not sure if the c with the diacritic mark (è)
                      > will come through in this note either. So lets see if it does.
                      > Carl
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "S. R." <srkrizan@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I can answer the PS. C>
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
                      > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
                      > > Behalf Of Carl Kotlarchik
                      > > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:51 AM
                      > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: [S-R] Pronunciation
                      > > Can someone help me with the pronunciation of a couple of letters?
                      > >
                      > > I know that the letter "C" with a diacritic mark in Slovak is the
                      > > same as the letters "CS" in Hungarian and "CH" in English. As I
                      > > trace some families back in the church records, "CS" goes to "TS"
                      > in
                      > > the early 1800s and sometimes back to "C" with the diacritic mark
                      > in
                      > > the earliest records. Is "TS" a Hungarian spelling and is it
                      > > pronounced the same as "CH"? In a few cases, I have also
                      > > found "CZ". Is that also pronounced as "CH"? How are the
                      > > letters "CH" pronounced in Slovak and in Hungarian? Are they also
                      > > pronounced like "CH" in English? I have found a family name of
                      > > Chzen or possibly Chren and am curious how that would be
                      > pronounced.
                      > >
                      > > Finally, I am also tracing the surname of Lojan and I sometimes see
                      > > it in the records as Loyan. Are these Slovak or Hungarian
                      > spellings
                      > > of the same name and are they pronounced the same way?
                      > >
                      > > Carl Kotlarchik (and/or Kotlarcik, Kotlarcsik, Kotlartsik)
                      > >
                      > > PS. It would be really nice if the Yahoo Slovak Roots Group would
                      > > set the default alphabet to the Central European version rather
                      > than
                      > > the Western European. Then we could write the letters with the
                      > > correct diacritic marks in our messages. Can this be done?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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