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Re: [S-R] Re: Bohunky or Boho'k

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  • Vladimir Bohinc
    I need some help from the audience. Can somebody explain to me the connection between Bohok in this european document and a Bohunk coined in the States? Thank
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 2, 2005
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      I need some help from the audience.
      Can somebody explain to me the connection between Bohok in this european document and a Bohunk coined in the States?
      Thank you,
      Vladimir

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Frank
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 3:20 PM
      Subject: [S-R] Re: Bohunky or Boho'k


      Before WW I, Slovakia was part of Upper Hungary (Felvidék) and part of
      the Austro-Hungarian Empire (1867-1918) and earlier a part of Hungary
      under the Austrian Empire.

      The 1896 Militär-Paß (passport) bearer was supposedly born in
      1874 in Csetnek, Gömör meyge, Hungary now S^tínik, Slovakia.
      In 1896 Kotlarc^ík would have been about age 22 (military age).

      The common army was recruited from both the German and Hungarian
      portions of the A-H Empire.
      The regiments of the common army were designated "Imperial and Royal"
      kaiserlich und königlich or k.u.k.

      If the Militär-Paß (passport) was in German it must have been an
      Austrian unit, not Hungarian Landwehr (Honvéd), styled "Royal
      Hungarian" - königlich ungarisch or k.u. and recruited from the
      Hungarian administered provinces of the
      empire (such as Upper-Hungary (Slovakia)

      The Militär-Paß (passport) was for active duty personnel and was
      bilingual (in two languages) and most entries were written in German,
      but not in Hungarian or Slovak !

      At top of passport was A-H coat of arms which had Austrian (Habsburg)
      eagle with two heads, an imperial crown, and a sword and orb in its
      two talons.

      This was an official document and nothing facetious in its words or
      terms would have been listed.
      Bohók in Magyar means something like to play a fool or a clown or a
      buffon.

      When I began grammar school in US I spoke no English and my fellow
      classmates had called me "dumb" for not understanding the English
      language.
      So English was my third language.
      My younger brothers only knew English so they escaped taunts of
      their classmates.
      My grandfather spoke 5 languages; he used Hungarian to keep his
      conversations secret from other listeners and cursed in German.


      bohunk

      slang (disparaging and offensive) (c 1900-1905)

      1. an unskilled or semiskilled foreign-born larborer, esp.
      from central or south eastern Europe
      2. a rough, stupid person
      cf. hunky

      derived from Bo(hemian) + Hung(arian) with the letter -g- devoiced,
      i.e. unvoice the sound

      Bohemians were Czechs.


      Frank K
      hunky, pl. hunkies (1895-1900)

      a person of Slavic or Hungarian descent, esp. a unskilled or
      semiskilled worker

      from Bo(hemian) + Hung(arian) with the letter -g- devoiced.
      ie. unvoice the sound







      To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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      c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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      Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
      http://www.eset.sk


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Janet Kozlay
      I don t think there is any connection at all. Someone had suggested a possible connection only because of their superficial similarity. Janet
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 2, 2005
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        I don't think there is any connection at all. Someone had suggested a
        possible connection only because of their superficial similarity.

        Janet
      • Jan Ammann
        Hello Vladimir........I don t think there is a reasonable or rational explanation for the connection if there is indeed one. Somehow........in some way, the
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 2, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello Vladimir........I don't think there is a reasonable or rational explanation for the connection if there is indeed one. Somehow........in some way, the terminology "bohunk" started in the USA, most probably by accident or of someone saying the term as a joke. And someone else picked it up and then someone else and a slang term was "born". It was used by people who felt superior to others and as a "put down".

          I grew up in a rural community and moved to a small town when I was 12 years old. I am of Austrian-Hungarian and Moravian descent. And I heard that term spoken to me and to our friends who were of the same descent. It was derogatory and even as I type this, I can feel the pain it caused me as a young person.

          At school........like you........I heard this many times. And believe it or not, I have heard that term off and on in the many years that have passed by. However, It is rarely, if ever, used now.

          So these are my thoughts to you. I do not believe anyone can say exactly why and where it started...however, I do feel sure that it was a legitimate word in the past. It would be nice to trace its evolution but I doubt that is possible.

          Aloysia (Jan)



          Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@...> wrote:
          I need some help from the audience.
          Can somebody explain to me the connection between Bohok in this european document and a Bohunk coined in the States?
          Thank you,
          Vladimir

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Frank
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 3:20 PM
          Subject: [S-R] Re: Bohunky or Boho'k


          Before WW I, Slovakia was part of Upper Hungary (Felvidék) and part of
          the Austro-Hungarian Empire (1867-1918) and earlier a part of Hungary
          under the Austrian Empire.

          The 1896 Militär-Paß (passport) bearer was supposedly born in
          1874 in Csetnek, Gömör meyge, Hungary now S^tínik, Slovakia.
          In 1896 Kotlarc^ík would have been about age 22 (military age).

          The common army was recruited from both the German and Hungarian
          portions of the A-H Empire.
          The regiments of the common army were designated "Imperial and Royal"
          kaiserlich und königlich or k.u.k.

          If the Militär-Paß (passport) was in German it must have been an
          Austrian unit, not Hungarian Landwehr (Honvéd), styled "Royal
          Hungarian" - königlich ungarisch or k.u. and recruited from the
          Hungarian administered provinces of the
          empire (such as Upper-Hungary (Slovakia)

          The Militär-Paß (passport) was for active duty personnel and was
          bilingual (in two languages) and most entries were written in German,
          but not in Hungarian or Slovak !

          At top of passport was A-H coat of arms which had Austrian (Habsburg)
          eagle with two heads, an imperial crown, and a sword and orb in its
          two talons.

          This was an official document and nothing facetious in its words or
          terms would have been listed.
          Bohók in Magyar means something like to play a fool or a clown or a
          buffon.

          When I began grammar school in US I spoke no English and my fellow
          classmates had called me "dumb" for not understanding the English
          language.
          So English was my third language.
          My younger brothers only knew English so they escaped taunts of
          their classmates.
          My grandfather spoke 5 languages; he used Hungarian to keep his
          conversations secret from other listeners and cursed in German.


          bohunk

          slang (disparaging and offensive) (c 1900-1905)

          1. an unskilled or semiskilled foreign-born larborer, esp.
          from central or south eastern Europe
          2. a rough, stupid person
          cf. hunky

          derived from Bo(hemian) + Hung(arian) with the letter -g- devoiced,
          i.e. unvoice the sound

          Bohemians were Czechs.


          Frank K
          hunky, pl. hunkies (1895-1900)

          a person of Slavic or Hungarian descent, esp. a unskilled or
          semiskilled worker

          from Bo(hemian) + Hung(arian) with the letter -g- devoiced.
          ie. unvoice the sound







          To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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          Multi family home for sale Single family home for sale Family home finance


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          a.. Visit your group "SLOVAK-ROOTS" on the web.

          b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------



          __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.1310 (20051201) __________

          Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
          http://www.eset.sk


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



          ---------------------------------
          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


          Visit your group "SLOVAK-ROOTS" on the web.

          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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          ---------------------------------






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Carl Kotlarchik
          The simple answer to Vladimir s question is that there is no connection between these terms. A derogatory, American slang term would not have appeared in an
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 2, 2005
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            The simple answer to Vladimir's question is that there is no
            connection between these terms. A derogatory, American slang term
            would not have appeared in an official Hungarian document in 1896.
            Secondly, I do not think it likely that the term Bohok used in this
            document is the same word as the Hungarian word "bohoc" meaning fool
            nor the Slovak word "bohac" which means rich man. Both of these
            words have the letter "c" (including diacritic marks) which do not
            have the sound of the letter "k". The hungarian word would have the
            sound of "ts" and the slovak word would have the sound of "ch".
            These are unlikely to be mispelled with a "k".

            I have been amazed at the response this question has raised since I
            posted it a couple of days ago. But I have had some very good
            information sent to me which I'd like to share. These documents
            originated because men had manditory military obligations. These
            documents indicated that the individual had completed active service
            and was now assigned to the reserves. It also meant the individual
            could now leave the country which is why they became "passports".
            So, it was important that this document differentiated a given
            individual from others with the same given and sur names.
            Apparently that is why a nickname or perhaps a middle name was
            provided. In my case, my grandfather had numerous cousins and
            uncles with the same name as his. That is the reason for inclusion
            of the name Bohok. What does it mean? I don't have a clue and I'm
            afraid neither does anyone else. So, it is time to move on to other
            topics.

            Thanks to all for the suggestions and information,
            Carl
            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Vladimir Bohinc"
            <konekta@n...> wrote:
            >
            > I need some help from the audience.
            > Can somebody explain to me the connection between Bohok in this
            european document and a Bohunk coined in the States?
            > Thank you,
            > Vladimir
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Frank
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 3:20 PM
            > Subject: [S-R] Re: Bohunky or Boho'k
            >
            >
            > Before WW I, Slovakia was part of Upper Hungary (Felvidék) and
            part of
            > the Austro-Hungarian Empire (1867-1918) and earlier a part of
            Hungary
            > under the Austrian Empire.
            >
            > The 1896 Militär-Paß (passport) bearer was supposedly born in
            > 1874 in Csetnek, Gömör meyge, Hungary now S^tínik, Slovakia.
            > In 1896 Kotlarc^ík would have been about age 22 (military age).
            >
            > The common army was recruited from both the German and Hungarian
            > portions of the A-H Empire.
            > The regiments of the common army were designated "Imperial and
            Royal"
            > kaiserlich und königlich or k.u.k.
            >
            > If the Militär-Paß (passport) was in German it must have been an
            > Austrian unit, not Hungarian Landwehr (Honvéd), styled "Royal
            > Hungarian" - königlich ungarisch or k.u. and recruited from the
            > Hungarian administered provinces of the
            > empire (such as Upper-Hungary (Slovakia)
            >
            > The Militär-Paß (passport) was for active duty personnel and was
            > bilingual (in two languages) and most entries were written in
            German,
            > but not in Hungarian or Slovak !
            >
            > At top of passport was A-H coat of arms which had Austrian
            (Habsburg)
            > eagle with two heads, an imperial crown, and a sword and orb in
            its
            > two talons.
            >
            > This was an official document and nothing facetious in its words
            or
            > terms would have been listed.
            > Bohók in Magyar means something like to play a fool or a clown
            or a
            > buffon.
            >
            > When I began grammar school in US I spoke no English and my
            fellow
            > classmates had called me "dumb" for not understanding the English
            > language.
            > So English was my third language.
            > My younger brothers only knew English so they escaped taunts of
            > their classmates.
            > My grandfather spoke 5 languages; he used Hungarian to keep his
            > conversations secret from other listeners and cursed in German.
            >
            >
            > bohunk
            >
            > slang (disparaging and offensive) (c 1900-1905)
            >
            > 1. an unskilled or semiskilled foreign-born larborer, esp.
            > from central or south eastern Europe
            > 2. a rough, stupid person
            > cf. hunky
            >
            > derived from Bo(hemian) + Hung(arian) with the letter -g-
            devoiced,
            > i.e. unvoice the sound
            >
            > Bohemians were Czechs.
            >
            >
            > Frank K
            > hunky, pl. hunkies (1895-1900)
            >
            > a person of Slavic or Hungarian descent, esp. a unskilled or
            > semiskilled worker
            >
            > from Bo(hemian) + Hung(arian) with the letter -g- devoiced.
            > ie. unvoice the sound
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
            email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > SPONSORED LINKS American family home insurance American family
            home insurance company American family home owner insurance
            > Multi family home for sale Single family home for sale
            Family home finance
            >
            >
            > -------------------------------------------------------------------
            -----------
            > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            >
            > a.. Visit your group "SLOVAK-ROOTS" on the web.
            >
            > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
            of Service.
            >
            >
            > -------------------------------------------------------------------
            -----------
            >
            >
            >
            > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.1310 (20051201) __________
            >
            > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
            > http://www.eset.sk
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Dennis Lee Bubla
            Hi y all (been lurking a while, but reading just the same) I have to agree with Jan, the term was meant as an ethnic slur and label which does in fact conjure
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 2, 2005
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              Hi y'all (been lurking a while, but reading just the same)

              I have to agree with Jan, the term was meant as an ethnic slur and
              label which does in fact conjure up many, many bad memories, and is
              best to leave it where it is...in the past. Perhaps the term will
              can be raised as a discussion topic in another several hundred of
              years.

              OK-New Question: On the other hand, as the countries of Eastern
              Europe changed hands (of rulers and governments), I also watched the
              paper work of my grandfather; Michal Bubla and how he classified
              himself. When he first emmigrated and ethnicity was asked of him,
              he put down "Austo-Hungarian"-in 1910. Then, when he applied for
              citizenship (1927), he put down Czechoslovakian or Slovak. Later
              (after I was born), I heard him proudly exclain he was Bohemian. As
              I got older I often thought the man was nuts, as perhaps, "he knew
              not what he was or where he was from." Thanks to this group, I can
              understand why and what happened. Moreover, there is an interesting
              article at
              http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/resources/unitedstates/Landskroneng.htm
              l that talks about the district of Landskron (Czech: Lanskroun) in
              Northeast Bohemia which consists of the town of Landskron and
              describes how and why these folks came to America. It includes the
              Czech market village of Cermna (Boehmisch Rothwasser), as the
              article points out. Interesting enough, the article
              describes "exactly" how my grandparents were, i.e. "The farm
              buildings also showed a distinctive configuration. Generally, the
              living quarters were physically connected to the farm buildings.
              More elaborate farmsteads were set up in a U-shape or square with a
              courtyard in the middle." But what it does not point out is this
              the tradition that far south into Moravia as well? Since my
              Grandfather "called himself a "Bohemian", "a Czech", and "a Slovak"
              at many times in his life, why not a Hungarian? Since my
              grandfather was at one time (not established that he was born there)
              from the area of Skalska Nova Ves (on the river Vah) right on
              today's Slovak and Czech border, do I look Northward into the
              present day Czech Republic or continue South into the Slovak
              Republic for research? I think it was establuished that even then
              folks migrated to find work, or did the governments in power at that
              time force people to migrate. Any thoughts?

              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jan Ammann <janammann@s...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Hello Vladimir........I don't think there is a reasonable or
              rational explanation for the connection if there is indeed one.
              <snip>>
              > Aloysia (Jan)

              > Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@n...> wrote:
              > I need some help from the audience.
              > Can somebody explain to me the connection between Bohok in this
              european document and a Bohunk coined in the States?
              > Thank you,
              > Vladimir
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Frank
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 3:20 PM
              > Subject: [S-R] Re: Bohunky or Boho'k
              >
              >
              > Before WW I, Slovakia was part of Upper Hungary (Felvidék) and
              part of
              <snip>
            • Vladimir Bohinc
              Dear Carl, Thank you. I know there is no connection between those two terms. I am just amazed at which avenues this thread has taken if you let your
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 2, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Dear Carl,
                Thank you. I know there is no connection between those two terms. I am just amazed at which avenues this thread has taken if you let your imagination loose.
                There has been a lot of discussion over this alias issue before either here or on SW, so it is generally known and accepted as to what the purpose was and still is.
                What the meaning of an actual alias word could be can best be acquired in the environment where it was created. There are no further meanings to that.

                In your mail below there is a sentence I do not understand: " It also meant the individual
                could now leave the country which is why they became "passports".

                A middle name is sometimes given to the child at baptism. A nickname is rather an adjective and is either inherited or given to a person by the community later.

                Among others I also called the Kotlarcik family in Magnezitovce asking them whether this nickname would ring any bells. No, they said.
                They also told me, that they will reply soon to your letter.
                If you are trying to find relatives, I suggest you to research your known ancestors first by yourself as it is described in my article " Finding relatives" on www.konekta.sk
                Only then you have a chance to find a connection between your ancestors and some living Kotlarciks. It is also possible, that your living relatives will not have a Kotlarcik surname any more.
                Vladimir

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Carl Kotlarchik
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 8:08 PM
                Subject: [S-R] Re: Bohunky or Boho'k


                The simple answer to Vladimir's question is that there is no
                connection between these terms. A derogatory, American slang term
                would not have appeared in an official Hungarian document in 1896.
                Secondly, I do not think it likely that the term Bohok used in this
                document is the same word as the Hungarian word "bohoc" meaning fool
                nor the Slovak word "bohac" which means rich man. Both of these
                words have the letter "c" (including diacritic marks) which do not
                have the sound of the letter "k". The hungarian word would have the
                sound of "ts" and the slovak word would have the sound of "ch".
                These are unlikely to be mispelled with a "k".

                I have been amazed at the response this question has raised since I
                posted it a couple of days ago. But I have had some very good
                information sent to me which I'd like to share. These documents
                originated because men had manditory military obligations. These
                documents indicated that the individual had completed active service
                and was now assigned to the reserves. It also meant the individual
                could now leave the country which is why they became "passports".
                So, it was important that this document differentiated a given
                individual from others with the same given and sur names.
                Apparently that is why a nickname or perhaps a middle name was
                provided. In my case, my grandfather had numerous cousins and
                uncles with the same name as his. That is the reason for inclusion
                of the name Bohok. What does it mean? I don't have a clue and I'm
                afraid neither does anyone else. So, it is time to move on to other
                topics.

                Thanks to all for the suggestions and information,
                Carl
                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Vladimir Bohinc"
                <konekta@n...> wrote:
                >
                > I need some help from the audience.
                > Can somebody explain to me the connection between Bohok in this
                european document and a Bohunk coined in the States?
                > Thank you,
                > Vladimir
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Frank
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 3:20 PM
                > Subject: [S-R] Re: Bohunky or Boho'k
                >
                >
                > Before WW I, Slovakia was part of Upper Hungary (Felvidék) and
                part of
                > the Austro-Hungarian Empire (1867-1918) and earlier a part of
                Hungary
                > under the Austrian Empire.
                >
                > The 1896 Militär-Paß (passport) bearer was supposedly born in
                > 1874 in Csetnek, Gömör meyge, Hungary now S^tínik, Slovakia.
                > In 1896 Kotlarc^ík would have been about age 22 (military age).
                >
                > The common army was recruited from both the German and Hungarian
                > portions of the A-H Empire.
                > The regiments of the common army were designated "Imperial and
                Royal"
                > kaiserlich und königlich or k.u.k.
                >
                > If the Militär-Paß (passport) was in German it must have been an
                > Austrian unit, not Hungarian Landwehr (Honvéd), styled "Royal
                > Hungarian" - königlich ungarisch or k.u. and recruited from the
                > Hungarian administered provinces of the
                > empire (such as Upper-Hungary (Slovakia)
                >
                > The Militär-Paß (passport) was for active duty personnel and was
                > bilingual (in two languages) and most entries were written in
                German,
                > but not in Hungarian or Slovak !
                >
                > At top of passport was A-H coat of arms which had Austrian
                (Habsburg)
                > eagle with two heads, an imperial crown, and a sword and orb in
                its
                > two talons.
                >
                > This was an official document and nothing facetious in its words
                or
                > terms would have been listed.
                > Bohók in Magyar means something like to play a fool or a clown
                or a
                > buffon.
                >
                > When I began grammar school in US I spoke no English and my
                fellow
                > classmates had called me "dumb" for not understanding the English
                > language.
                > So English was my third language.
                > My younger brothers only knew English so they escaped taunts of
                > their classmates.
                > My grandfather spoke 5 languages; he used Hungarian to keep his
                > conversations secret from other listeners and cursed in German.
                >
                >
                > bohunk
                >
                > slang (disparaging and offensive) (c 1900-1905)
                >
                > 1. an unskilled or semiskilled foreign-born larborer, esp.
                > from central or south eastern Europe
                > 2. a rough, stupid person
                > cf. hunky
                >
                > derived from Bo(hemian) + Hung(arian) with the letter -g-
                devoiced,
                > i.e. unvoice the sound
                >
                > Bohemians were Czechs.
                >
                >
                > Frank K
                > hunky, pl. hunkies (1895-1900)
                >
                > a person of Slavic or Hungarian descent, esp. a unskilled or
                > semiskilled worker
                >
                > from Bo(hemian) + Hung(arian) with the letter -g- devoiced.
                > ie. unvoice the sound
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
                email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > SPONSORED LINKS American family home insurance American family
                home insurance company American family home owner insurance
                > Multi family home for sale Single family home for sale
                Family home finance
                >
                >
                > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                -----------
                > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                >
                > a.. Visit your group "SLOVAK-ROOTS" on the web.
                >
                > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                of Service.
                >
                >
                > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                -----------
                >
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              • Bill Tarkulich
                Hello Dennis, Your question needs a new message thread title, so I have taken care of that, above. While Austria-Hungary was a dual monarchy, there was an
                Message 7 of 7 , Dec 3, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello Dennis,

                  Your question needs a new message thread title, so I have taken care of
                  that, above.

                  While Austria-Hungary was a dual monarchy, there was an internal face and an
                  external face. Austria-Hungary referred to the management of affairs
                  external to the two nations - diplomacy and military forces being the
                  largest. Internal affairs still remained a national thing - Hungary still
                  retained administration of its own internal affairs, and ditto for Austria.


                  Until 1918, Bohemia was always a province of Austria. Hungary never
                  controlled the affairs of Bohemia.

                  Please also use caution when you use words like "Hungarian". It would be
                  best to preface such words with the term "ethnic" or "national/citizen" so
                  as to understand whether you refer to ethnic or political representation.
                  For example, I am both a Rusyn (ethnic) and an American (national/citizen).

                  - if you notice, most immigrants pre-1918 from Bohemia or Moravia refer to
                  their national origin as "Austrian". However, "Bohemian" could refer to
                  either their ethnicity or regional/national origin.

                  Everything that your grandfather said makes perfect sense to me, except that
                  he had called himself both Czech and Slovak. In those times, the meaning
                  was generally ethnic. It wasn't until 1993 that there were two entities
                  Czech Rep. And Slovak Rep.
                  However, during Czechoslovakia times, there were always two distinct
                  internal regions, the "Czech Lands" (Bohemia and Moravia) and the "Slovak
                  Lands".

                  It's also possible that your GP was an ethnic Slovak, living in the "Czech
                  Lands."

                  Frankly, I think your research continues in all directions. Until the world
                  wars, it inter-land (and nation for that matter) mobility was a rather
                  simple process. While most small villages remained insular and developed
                  their own unique customs, people did move about, bringing their own customs
                  with them. This was especially true if the settlement was near a river or
                  rail line, which made transit relatively easy and convenient.

                  Of course external factors influence why people moved. You'll need to be
                  specific about what period of time you are interested in researching. For
                  the most part, landowners and governments wanted rural peasants to remain
                  where there were, barefoot and ignorant, to continue to work the land.
                  Cities were a whole different ballgame. There were many more opportunities
                  in cities, more education, more money, more choices. If you look at
                  immigration records, you'll see that few people from the cities immigrated
                  prior to WWI. Escape from poverty was the main mover of rural people
                  pre-WWI.

                  Other eras, primarily post-WWI beget other reasons for movement - pogroms of
                  WWII, migration to work centers during socialist times, and so on.

                  While you do not state your research objective, it seems that your questions
                  are motivated by a quest for more historical knowledge. If that is the
                  case, I would suggest that you consider exploring land records, at least to
                  the point of understanding who owned the village. Until the world wars, the
                  vestiges of feudalism remained intact. That is, the few wealthy, privileged
                  owned vast amount of land (including villages) and land-poor/landless
                  peasants did all the work. As such, the establishment of most rural
                  villages was an activity initiated by the landowner. The landowners and
                  their Soltys determined the configuration and characteristics of the
                  village. Landowners and their agents, also "recruited" people to live in
                  the village.

                  Vladimir Bohnic and Peter Nagy are both extremely knowledgeable about
                  feudalism in these lands.

                  Good Luck with your research.


                  ______________
                  Bill Tarkulich



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Dennis Lee Bubla
                  Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 10:02 PM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [S-R] Re: (Comment) Bohunky or Boho'k and New Question

                  Hi y'all (been lurking a while, but reading just the same)

                  I have to agree with Jan, the term was meant as an ethnic slur and
                  label which does in fact conjure up many, many bad memories, and is
                  best to leave it where it is...in the past. Perhaps the term will
                  can be raised as a discussion topic in another several hundred of
                  years.

                  OK-New Question: On the other hand, as the countries of Eastern
                  Europe changed hands (of rulers and governments), I also watched the
                  paper work of my grandfather; Michal Bubla and how he classified
                  himself. When he first emmigrated and ethnicity was asked of him,
                  he put down "Austo-Hungarian"-in 1910. Then, when he applied for
                  citizenship (1927), he put down Czechoslovakian or Slovak. Later
                  (after I was born), I heard him proudly exclain he was Bohemian. As
                  I got older I often thought the man was nuts, as perhaps, "he knew
                  not what he was or where he was from." Thanks to this group, I can
                  understand why and what happened. Moreover, there is an interesting
                  article at
                  http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/resources/unitedstates/Landskroneng.htm
                  l that talks about the district of Landskron (Czech: Lanskroun) in
                  Northeast Bohemia which consists of the town of Landskron and
                  describes how and why these folks came to America. It includes the
                  Czech market village of Cermna (Boehmisch Rothwasser), as the
                  article points out. Interesting enough, the article
                  describes "exactly" how my grandparents were, i.e. "The farm
                  buildings also showed a distinctive configuration. Generally, the
                  living quarters were physically connected to the farm buildings.
                  More elaborate farmsteads were set up in a U-shape or square with a
                  courtyard in the middle." But what it does not point out is this
                  the tradition that far south into Moravia as well? Since my
                  Grandfather "called himself a "Bohemian", "a Czech", and "a Slovak"
                  at many times in his life, why not a Hungarian? Since my
                  grandfather was at one time (not established that he was born there)
                  from the area of Skalska Nova Ves (on the river Vah) right on
                  today's Slovak and Czech border, do I look Northward into the
                  present day Czech Republic or continue South into the Slovak
                  Republic for research? I think it was establuished that even then
                  folks migrated to find work, or did the governments in power at that
                  time force people to migrate. Any thoughts?

                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jan Ammann <janammann@s...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Vladimir........I don't think there is a reasonable or
                  rational explanation for the connection if there is indeed one.
                  <snip>>
                  > Aloysia (Jan)

                  > Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@n...> wrote:
                  > I need some help from the audience.
                  > Can somebody explain to me the connection between Bohok in this
                  european document and a Bohunk coined in the States?
                  > Thank you,
                  > Vladimir
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Frank
                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 3:20 PM
                  > Subject: [S-R] Re: Bohunky or Boho'k
                  >
                  >
                  > Before WW I, Slovakia was part of Upper Hungary (Felvidék) and
                  part of
                  <snip>







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