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Re: [S-R] Central Europe

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  • Jan Ammann
    Hello..........well I guess I have learned something here......I have always thought Hungary was Eastern Europe.....in fact, the friends I have in Hungary do
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
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      Hello..........well I guess I have learned something here......I have always thought Hungary was Eastern Europe.....in fact, the friends I have in Hungary do identify themselves as "Eastern Europe". So is this a wide misconception??

      Bill......I am curious. I see you gave a website to back up the info. However, how does one become expert enough to be able to identify regions.......is this done by mapping or what. Would appreciate a viewpoint from you and others on this.

      Cheers,
      Aloysia (Jan)

      Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
      According to http://www.tol.cz

      Central Europe is
      czech republic estonia hungary latvia
      lithuania poland slovakia slovenia

      Eastern Europe is
      belarus moldova russia ukraine

      Seems reasonable to me.

      Bill Tarkulich


      On Thu, December 1, 2005 9:23 am, amiak27 said:
      > Yes, it seems that "Eastern Europe" was redefined for the cold war,
      > but now that that war is past the old use of "Central Europe" is
      > coming back.
      >
      > On the location of the center of Europe, I also visited one, but
      > this one is 25 km (15 miles) due north of Vilnius, Lithuania. THat
      > distinctly puts Slovakia in western central Europe. Our western
      > bend to history includes geography. Most people report "the highest
      > European mountain" in France, I believe, where it is really in the
      > southern Ukraine/ Caucauses.
      >
      > Perhaps we should start to collect locations of all the
      > different "centers of Europe" that various people have proclaimed.
      >
      > Ron
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joyce & Bill <bhewlett@v...>
      > wrote:
      >>
      >> You are right in what you say. I think after WW2 and during the
      > communist era, the American mind set was to divide Europe into the
      > free West and the Communist East and the central didn't exist. Now
      > that things have changed, unless one is interested in those
      > countries, which are central, people still tend to think of them as
      > Eastern Europe.
      >> Joyce
      >>
      >> From: maureen <maureen@d...>
      >> >Date: Wed Nov 30 23:34:56 CST 2005
      >> >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      >> >Subject: [S-R] Central Europe
      >>
      >> >Janet,
      >> >On my most recent trip to Slovakia and Ukraine I was amazed to
      > see the marker indicating the geographical center of Europe - it
      > sits in the eastern part of Zakarpattia, Ukraine, just across the
      > Tisa from Romania, almost to the town of Rahkiv. Now, when I hear
      > anyone, on this list or others, refer to Slovakia and Ukraine
      > as "Eastern Europe," the first thing I want to do is to write a
      > reply to correct the misconception. But, I never do it.
      >> >
      >> >You have given me the opportunity to send a positive note on this
      > topic, because you correctly identify the places of origin as
      > Central Europe. Thank you!
      >> >
      >> >Maureen Pulignano
      >> >www.deefalt.com
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
      > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      --
      Bill Tarkulich
      http://www.iabsi.com



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    • Bill Tarkulich
      Jan, As you can see, it all depends on your point of view. There is no official definition. I cited the URL to give you the source of this, not to sanction
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
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        Jan,

        As you can see, it all depends on your point of view. There is no
        "official definition."

        I cited the URL to give you the source of this, not to sanction it.

        Americans, as a group (and I am one) are incredibly ignorant of this
        region. Ask a few to place Slovakia on a map, or tell you what countries
        it is adjacent to. It's as bad as Sierra Leone.

        Bill

        On Thu, December 1, 2005 11:18 am, Jan Ammann said:
        > Hello..........well I guess I have learned something here......I have
        > always thought Hungary was Eastern Europe.....in fact, the friends I have
        > in Hungary do identify themselves as "Eastern Europe". So is this a wide
        > misconception??
        >
        > Bill......I am curious. I see you gave a website to back up the info.
        > However, how does one become expert enough to be able to identify
        > regions.......is this done by mapping or what. Would appreciate a
        > viewpoint from you and others on this.
        >
        > Cheers,
        > Aloysia (Jan)
        >
        > Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
        > According to http://www.tol.cz
        >
        > Central Europe is
        > czech republic estonia hungary latvia
        > lithuania poland slovakia slovenia
        >
        > Eastern Europe is
        > belarus moldova russia ukraine
        >
        > Seems reasonable to me.
        >
        > Bill Tarkulich
        >
        >
        > On Thu, December 1, 2005 9:23 am, amiak27 said:
        >> Yes, it seems that "Eastern Europe" was redefined for the cold war,
        >> but now that that war is past the old use of "Central Europe" is
        >> coming back.
        >>
        >> On the location of the center of Europe, I also visited one, but
        >> this one is 25 km (15 miles) due north of Vilnius, Lithuania. THat
        >> distinctly puts Slovakia in western central Europe. Our western
        >> bend to history includes geography. Most people report "the highest
        >> European mountain" in France, I believe, where it is really in the
        >> southern Ukraine/ Caucauses.
        >>
        >> Perhaps we should start to collect locations of all the
        >> different "centers of Europe" that various people have proclaimed.
        >>
        >> Ron
        >>
        >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joyce & Bill <bhewlett@v...>
        >> wrote:
        >>>
        >>> You are right in what you say. I think after WW2 and during the
        >> communist era, the American mind set was to divide Europe into the
        >> free West and the Communist East and the central didn't exist. Now
        >> that things have changed, unless one is interested in those
        >> countries, which are central, people still tend to think of them as
        >> Eastern Europe.
        >>> Joyce
        >>>
        >>> From: maureen <maureen@d...>
        >>> >Date: Wed Nov 30 23:34:56 CST 2005
        >>> >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        >>> >Subject: [S-R] Central Europe
        >>>
        >>> >Janet,
        >>> >On my most recent trip to Slovakia and Ukraine I was amazed to
        >> see the marker indicating the geographical center of Europe - it
        >> sits in the eastern part of Zakarpattia, Ukraine, just across the
        >> Tisa from Romania, almost to the town of Rahkiv. Now, when I hear
        >> anyone, on this list or others, refer to Slovakia and Ukraine
        >> as "Eastern Europe," the first thing I want to do is to write a
        >> reply to correct the misconception. But, I never do it.
        >>> >
        >>> >You have given me the opportunity to send a positive note on this
        >> topic, because you correctly identify the places of origin as
        >> Central Europe. Thank you!
        >>> >
        >>> >Maureen Pulignano
        >>> >www.deefalt.com
        >>> >
        >>> >
        >>> >
        >>> > >
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
        >> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        > --
        > Bill Tarkulich
        > http://www.iabsi.com
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
        > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
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        >
        >
        > Visit your group "SLOVAK-ROOTS" on the web.
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
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        >
        >
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        >


        --
        Bill Tarkulich
        http://www.iabsi.com
      • John Venham
        Almost all recent scholarly works discuss the difficulty of assigning a geographical label to this region. Technically, Europe is not a distinct continent,
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
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          Almost all recent scholarly works discuss the
          difficulty of assigning a geographical label to this
          region. Technically, Europe is not a distinct
          continent, but rather a large peninsula on the western
          part of the Eurasian landmass. As such, it is
          impossible to draw a line to define the 'limit' of
          Europe, let alone the 'eastern half' of it. The same
          ambiguity arises in other dimensions, such as history,
          politics, economics and society. Citizens in all of
          the countries between Germany and Russia consider
          themselves as naturally belonging to 'the West' and
          all look down on the nations just to their east as
          less developed and more backward.

          Pjotr Wandycz, author of 'The Price of Freedom',
          prefaces his book with an essay on this topic.

          I've spent the best part of the past 5 years in the
          Czech Rep, Slovakia and Hungary. I must agree that as
          one proceeds eastward from Germany, there is an
          obvious gradation downward in terms of economic
          development. From brief visits to Germany and
          Austria, my impression was that there is a better
          business sense and smoother administration there than
          here. Rules tend to make logical sense, and are
          followed more willingly and consistently. Socially,
          the family unit is very strong here in CR, S and H.
          Small children are cared for by grandparents while the
          parents work during the day; and often adult children
          live at home up to the age of 30. While a positive
          element of the culture, this sense of community
          doesn't extend far beyond the family circle. In
          addition, this entails a tremendous influence from the
          distant past in terms of ways of thinking, problem
          solving, work ethic, etc. The result is a society
          that doesn't function very efficiently in the
          collective. This social dynamics has a direct
          influence on business development. The communist era
          is often cited, and justifiably, as the blame for much
          of the current condition here, but it is my opinion
          that the cultural influence from the past provides a
          necessary supplemental explanation. Rather than these
          societies waking up from the communist hang-over and
          getting back to 'normal' (was the period 1918-1939
          normal?), I feel they finally are on an open road to
          develop their potential more naturally. It remains to
          be seen, if this will match that acheived in the West,
          or even surpass it. And this aspect should carry more
          weight in the determination of east, west or central
          designations than rivers or mountain ranges. Right
          now, I'm living in eastern Europe. Perhaps when I
          retire, I'll be returning to simply visit 'Europe.'

          John Venham


          --- Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:

          > Jan,
          >
          > As you can see, it all depends on your point of
          > view. There is no
          > "official definition."
          >
          > I cited the URL to give you the source of this, not
          > to sanction it.
          >
          > Americans, as a group (and I am one) are incredibly
          > ignorant of this
          > region. Ask a few to place Slovakia on a map, or
          > tell you what countries
          > it is adjacent to. It's as bad as Sierra Leone.
          >
          > Bill
          >
          > On Thu, December 1, 2005 11:18 am, Jan Ammann said:
          > > Hello..........well I guess I have learned
          > something here......I have
          > > always thought Hungary was Eastern Europe.....in
          > fact, the friends I have
          > > in Hungary do identify themselves as "Eastern
          > Europe". So is this a wide
          > > misconception??
          > >
          > > Bill......I am curious. I see you gave a website
          > to back up the info.
          > > However, how does one become expert enough to be
          > able to identify
          > > regions.......is this done by mapping or what.
          > Would appreciate a
          > > viewpoint from you and others on this.
          > >
          > > Cheers,
          > > Aloysia (Jan)
          > >
          > > Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
          > > According to http://www.tol.cz
          > >
          > > Central Europe is
          > > czech republic estonia hungary
          > latvia
          > > lithuania poland slovakia
          > slovenia
          > >
          > > Eastern Europe is
          > > belarus moldova russia ukraine
          > >
          > > Seems reasonable to me.
          > >
          > > Bill Tarkulich
          > >
          > >
          > > On Thu, December 1, 2005 9:23 am, amiak27 said:
          > >> Yes, it seems that "Eastern Europe" was redefined
          > for the cold war,
          > >> but now that that war is past the old use of
          > "Central Europe" is
          > >> coming back.
          > >>
          > >> On the location of the center of Europe, I also
          > visited one, but
          > >> this one is 25 km (15 miles) due north of
          > Vilnius, Lithuania. THat
          > >> distinctly puts Slovakia in western central
          > Europe. Our western
          > >> bend to history includes geography. Most people
          > report "the highest
          > >> European mountain" in France, I believe, where it
          > is really in the
          > >> southern Ukraine/ Caucauses.
          > >>
          > >> Perhaps we should start to collect locations of
          > all the
          > >> different "centers of Europe" that various people
          > have proclaimed.
          > >>
          > >> Ron
          > >>
          > >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joyce & Bill
          > <bhewlett@v...>
          > >> wrote:
          > >>>
          > >>> You are right in what you say. I think after
          > WW2 and during the
          > >> communist era, the American mind set was to
          > divide Europe into the
          > >> free West and the Communist East and the central
          > didn't exist. Now
          > >> that things have changed, unless one is
          > interested in those
          > >> countries, which are central, people still tend
          > to think of them as
          > >> Eastern Europe.
          > >>> Joyce
          > >>>
          > >>> From: maureen <maureen@d...>
          > >>> >Date: Wed Nov 30 23:34:56 CST 2005
          > >>> >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > >>> >Subject: [S-R] Central Europe
          > >>>
          > >>> >Janet,
          > >>> >On my most recent trip to Slovakia and Ukraine
          > I was amazed to
          > >> see the marker indicating the geographical center
          > of Europe - it
          > >> sits in the eastern part of Zakarpattia, Ukraine,
          > just across the
          > >> Tisa from Romania, almost to the town of Rahkiv.
          > Now, when I hear
          > >> anyone, on this list or others, refer to Slovakia
          > and Ukraine
          > >> as "Eastern Europe," the first thing I want to do
          > is to write a
          > >> reply to correct the misconception. But, I never
          > do it.
          > >>> >
          > >>> >You have given me the opportunity to send a
          > positive note on this
          > >> topic, because you correctly identify the places
          > of origin as
          > >> Central Europe. Thank you!
          > >>> >
          > >>> >Maureen Pulignano
          > >>> >www.deefalt.com
          > >>> >
          > >>> >
          > >>> >
          > >>> > >
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
          > >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
          > -or- send blank email to
          > >> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > > --
          > > Bill Tarkulich
          > > http://www.iabsi.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
          > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
          > -or- send blank email to
          > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > SPONSORED LINKS
          > > American family home insurance American family
          > home insurance company
          > > American family home owner insurance Multi family
          > home for sale Single
          > > family home for sale Family home finance
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          > >
          > >
          > > Visit your group "SLOVAK-ROOTS" on the web.
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
          > to:
          > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
          > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          > >
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
          > removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
          > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
          > -or- send blank email to
          > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          === message truncated ===



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        • Jan Ammann
          Hello John........Thank you very much for your thoughtful and very worthy reply on this subject. Your explanation of the life of Cr, S, and H really hits the
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello John........Thank you very much for your thoughtful and very worthy reply on this subject. Your explanation of the life of Cr, S, and H really hits the nail on the head for me. I have family in Hungary........and write very often for the last two years with two brothers........one who has remained in Hungary with an excellent job and one who has moved on to a really great position in another country in what I guess we would call "regular Europe"..........smile...

            The brother who has moved away now sees the restraint and the attitude of those back in Hungary as being more backward. I can tell by his words that he enjoys this new "mind freedom" (for want of a better word) and although he hopes to move back one day, he feels a "new life" has come to him and his family....a new way of thinking.

            The brother who is in Hungary is very nice and a hard worker but probably more set in his ways than his brother. As you indicated, he is very close to his parents. I do hear words like "the old ways" and when "the communists were here". So there is that mind set. However, he does look forward to a better life but I do see the differences between the two of them.

            I do believe, however, that these nations, especially Hungary, are moving toward a better business community which will open up new worlds for all its people.....better salaries, etc. They are moving upward.......not at the "speed of sound" but more slowly.....but they are "moving" and that is the criteria I look at.

            Again.......thank you for your words.................Jan


            John Venham <jevenham@...> wrote:
            Almost all recent scholarly works discuss the
            difficulty of assigning a geographical label to this
            region. Technically, Europe is not a distinct
            continent, but rather a large peninsula on the western
            part of the Eurasian landmass. As such, it is
            impossible to draw a line to define the 'limit' of
            Europe, let alone the 'eastern half' of it. The same
            ambiguity arises in other dimensions, such as history,
            politics, economics and society. Citizens in all of
            the countries between Germany and Russia consider
            themselves as naturally belonging to 'the West' and
            all look down on the nations just to their east as
            less developed and more backward.

            Pjotr Wandycz, author of 'The Price of Freedom',
            prefaces his book with an essay on this topic.

            I've spent the best part of the past 5 years in the
            Czech Rep, Slovakia and Hungary. I must agree that as
            one proceeds eastward from Germany, there is an
            obvious gradation downward in terms of economic
            development. From brief visits to Germany and
            Austria, my impression was that there is a better
            business sense and smoother administration there than
            here. Rules tend to make logical sense, and are
            followed more willingly and consistently. Socially,
            the family unit is very strong here in CR, S and H.
            Small children are cared for by grandparents while the
            parents work during the day; and often adult children
            live at home up to the age of 30. While a positive
            element of the culture, this sense of community
            doesn't extend far beyond the family circle. In
            addition, this entails a tremendous influence from the
            distant past in terms of ways of thinking, problem
            solving, work ethic, etc. The result is a society
            that doesn't function very efficiently in the
            collective. This social dynamics has a direct
            influence on business development. The communist era
            is often cited, and justifiably, as the blame for much
            of the current condition here, but it is my opinion
            that the cultural influence from the past provides a
            necessary supplemental explanation. Rather than these
            societies waking up from the communist hang-over and
            getting back to 'normal' (was the period 1918-1939
            normal?), I feel they finally are on an open road to
            develop their potential more naturally. It remains to
            be seen, if this will match that acheived in the West,
            or even surpass it. And this aspect should carry more
            weight in the determination of east, west or central
            designations than rivers or mountain ranges. Right
            now, I'm living in eastern Europe. Perhaps when I
            retire, I'll be returning to simply visit 'Europe.'

            John Venham


            --- Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:

            > Jan,
            >
            > As you can see, it all depends on your point of
            > view. There is no
            > "official definition."
            >
            > I cited the URL to give you the source of this, not
            > to sanction it.
            >
            > Americans, as a group (and I am one) are incredibly
            > ignorant of this
            > region. Ask a few to place Slovakia on a map, or
            > tell you what countries
            > it is adjacent to. It's as bad as Sierra Leone.
            >
            > Bill
            >
            > On Thu, December 1, 2005 11:18 am, Jan Ammann said:
            > > Hello..........well I guess I have learned
            > something here......I have
            > > always thought Hungary was Eastern Europe.....in
            > fact, the friends I have
            > > in Hungary do identify themselves as "Eastern
            > Europe". So is this a wide
            > > misconception??
            > >
            > > Bill......I am curious. I see you gave a website
            > to back up the info.
            > > However, how does one become expert enough to be
            > able to identify
            > > regions.......is this done by mapping or what.
            > Would appreciate a
            > > viewpoint from you and others on this.
            > >
            > > Cheers,
            > > Aloysia (Jan)
            > >
            > > Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
            > > According to http://www.tol.cz
            > >
            > > Central Europe is
            > > czech republic estonia hungary
            > latvia
            > > lithuania poland slovakia
            > slovenia
            > >
            > > Eastern Europe is
            > > belarus moldova russia ukraine
            > >
            > > Seems reasonable to me.
            > >
            > > Bill Tarkulich
            > >
            > >
            > > On Thu, December 1, 2005 9:23 am, amiak27 said:
            > >> Yes, it seems that "Eastern Europe" was redefined
            > for the cold war,
            > >> but now that that war is past the old use of
            > "Central Europe" is
            > >> coming back.
            > >>
            > >> On the location of the center of Europe, I also
            > visited one, but
            > >> this one is 25 km (15 miles) due north of
            > Vilnius, Lithuania. THat
            > >> distinctly puts Slovakia in western central
            > Europe. Our western
            > >> bend to history includes geography. Most people
            > report "the highest
            > >> European mountain" in France, I believe, where it
            > is really in the
            > >> southern Ukraine/ Caucauses.
            > >>
            > >> Perhaps we should start to collect locations of
            > all the
            > >> different "centers of Europe" that various people
            > have proclaimed.
            > >>
            > >> Ron
            > >>
            > >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joyce & Bill
            > <bhewlett@v...>
            > >> wrote:
            > >>>
            > >>> You are right in what you say. I think after
            > WW2 and during the
            > >> communist era, the American mind set was to
            > divide Europe into the
            > >> free West and the Communist East and the central
            > didn't exist. Now
            > >> that things have changed, unless one is
            > interested in those
            > >> countries, which are central, people still tend
            > to think of them as
            > >> Eastern Europe.
            > >>> Joyce
            > >>>
            > >>> From: maureen <maureen@d...>
            > >>> >Date: Wed Nov 30 23:34:56 CST 2005
            > >>> >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > >>> >Subject: [S-R] Central Europe
            > >>>
            > >>> >Janet,
            > >>> >On my most recent trip to Slovakia and Ukraine
            > I was amazed to
            > >> see the marker indicating the geographical center
            > of Europe - it
            > >> sits in the eastern part of Zakarpattia, Ukraine,
            > just across the
            > >> Tisa from Romania, almost to the town of Rahkiv.
            > Now, when I hear
            > >> anyone, on this list or others, refer to Slovakia
            > and Ukraine
            > >> as "Eastern Europe," the first thing I want to do
            > is to write a
            > >> reply to correct the misconception. But, I never
            > do it.
            > >>> >
            > >>> >You have given me the opportunity to send a
            > positive note on this
            > >> topic, because you correctly identify the places
            > of origin as
            > >> Central Europe. Thank you!
            > >>> >
            > >>> >Maureen Pulignano
            > >>> >www.deefalt.com
            > >>> >
            > >>> >
            > >>> >
            > >>> > >
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            > >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
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            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >
            > >
            > > --
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            > > http://www.iabsi.com
            > >
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            > >
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          • amiak27
            Jan, You have had some good answers and different perspectives. I am surprised the source Bill named did not include Germany in Central Europe. Certainly the
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Jan,

              You have had some good answers and different perspectives. I am
              surprised the source Bill named did not include Germany in Central
              Europe. Certainly the Germans consider themselves so, and back
              around 1914 so did we - Germany & Austria-Hungary were "the Central
              Powers".

              There is a desire for people of Europe to identify with the west,
              and the Lithuanians were quite happy that some Scandinavian
              geographer located the center of Europe so close to Vilnius.

              Traditionally I read that Europe ends at the Ural Mountains, but in
              looking at a topographic map of the Eurasian continent, the line is
              not so terribly obvious. I also suspect that Europe would never
              have been declared a continent if the concept had not been invented
              there.

              Getting into the sociology and business practices of the countries
              is a whole new ball of wax. I lived in Germany for 9 of my 10 years
              in Europe, and their social and business practices are quite
              different from ours, but happily also compatible. I suspect the new
              members of the EU will quickly adapt, but wonder if Russia will be
              able to make the radical change in the next 50 years. It is a great
              gap that separates us.

              Let's toast to the death of the Cold War! Too bad it did not die 50
              years earlier; we could have enjoyed our history and families that
              much sooner!


              Ron

              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jan Ammann <janammann@s...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Hello..........well I guess I have learned something here......I
              have always thought Hungary was Eastern Europe.....in fact, the
              friends I have in Hungary do identify themselves as "Eastern
              Europe". So is this a wide misconception??
              >
              > Bill......I am curious. I see you gave a website to back up the
              info. However, how does one become expert enough to be able to
              identify regions.......is this done by mapping or what. Would
              appreciate a viewpoint from you and others on this.
              >
              > Cheers,
              > Aloysia (Jan)
              >
              > Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@i...> wrote:
              > According to http://www.tol.cz
              >
              > Central Europe is
              > czech republic estonia hungary latvia
              > lithuania poland slovakia slovenia
              >
              > Eastern Europe is
              > belarus moldova russia ukraine
              >
              > Seems reasonable to me.
              >
              > Bill Tarkulich
              >
              >
              > On Thu, December 1, 2005 9:23 am, amiak27 said:
              > > Yes, it seems that "Eastern Europe" was redefined for the cold
              war,
              > > but now that that war is past the old use of "Central Europe" is
              > > coming back.
              > >
              > > On the location of the center of Europe, I also visited one, but
              > > this one is 25 km (15 miles) due north of Vilnius, Lithuania.
              THat
              > > distinctly puts Slovakia in western central Europe. Our western
              > > bend to history includes geography. Most people report "the
              highest
              > > European mountain" in France, I believe, where it is really in
              the
              > > southern Ukraine/ Caucauses.
              > >
              > > Perhaps we should start to collect locations of all the
              > > different "centers of Europe" that various people have
              proclaimed.
              > >
              > > Ron
              > >
              > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joyce & Bill <bhewlett@v...>
              > > wrote:
              > >>
              > >> You are right in what you say. I think after WW2 and during the
              > > communist era, the American mind set was to divide Europe into
              the
              > > free West and the Communist East and the central didn't exist.
              Now
              > > that things have changed, unless one is interested in those
              > > countries, which are central, people still tend to think of them
              as
              > > Eastern Europe.
              > >> Joyce
              > >>
              > >> From: maureen <maureen@d...>
              > >> >Date: Wed Nov 30 23:34:56 CST 2005
              > >> >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > >> >Subject: [S-R] Central Europe
              > >>
              > >> >Janet,
              > >> >On my most recent trip to Slovakia and Ukraine I was amazed to
              > > see the marker indicating the geographical center of Europe - it
              > > sits in the eastern part of Zakarpattia, Ukraine, just across the
              > > Tisa from Romania, almost to the town of Rahkiv. Now, when I hear
              > > anyone, on this list or others, refer to Slovakia and Ukraine
              > > as "Eastern Europe," the first thing I want to do is to write a
              > > reply to correct the misconception. But, I never do it.
              > >> >
              > >> >You have given me the opportunity to send a positive note on
              this
              > > topic, because you correctly identify the places of origin as
              > > Central Europe. Thank you!
              > >> >
              > >> >Maureen Pulignano
              > >> >www.deefalt.com
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
              email to
              > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > --
              > Bill Tarkulich
              > http://www.iabsi.com
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
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