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Re: [S-R] Central Europe

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  • amiak27
    Yes, it seems that Eastern Europe was redefined for the cold war, but now that that war is past the old use of Central Europe is coming back. On the
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
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      Yes, it seems that "Eastern Europe" was redefined for the cold war,
      but now that that war is past the old use of "Central Europe" is
      coming back.

      On the location of the center of Europe, I also visited one, but
      this one is 25 km (15 miles) due north of Vilnius, Lithuania. THat
      distinctly puts Slovakia in western central Europe. Our western
      bend to history includes geography. Most people report "the highest
      European mountain" in France, I believe, where it is really in the
      southern Ukraine/ Caucauses.

      Perhaps we should start to collect locations of all the
      different "centers of Europe" that various people have proclaimed.

      Ron

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joyce & Bill <bhewlett@v...>
      wrote:
      >
      > You are right in what you say. I think after WW2 and during the
      communist era, the American mind set was to divide Europe into the
      free West and the Communist East and the central didn't exist. Now
      that things have changed, unless one is interested in those
      countries, which are central, people still tend to think of them as
      Eastern Europe.
      > Joyce
      >
      > From: maureen <maureen@d...>
      > >Date: Wed Nov 30 23:34:56 CST 2005
      > >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > >Subject: [S-R] Central Europe
      >
      > >Janet,
      > >On my most recent trip to Slovakia and Ukraine I was amazed to
      see the marker indicating the geographical center of Europe - it
      sits in the eastern part of Zakarpattia, Ukraine, just across the
      Tisa from Romania, almost to the town of Rahkiv. Now, when I hear
      anyone, on this list or others, refer to Slovakia and Ukraine
      as "Eastern Europe," the first thing I want to do is to write a
      reply to correct the misconception. But, I never do it.
      > >
      > >You have given me the opportunity to send a positive note on this
      topic, because you correctly identify the places of origin as
      Central Europe. Thank you!
      > >
      > >Maureen Pulignano
      > >www.deefalt.com
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:47:55 -0500
      > > From: "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@c...>
      > >Subject: RE: Bohok and Bohunk
      > >
      > >
      > >I have been intrigued by the derogatory (not euphemistic)
      term "Bohunk,"
      > >referring to immigrants from Central Europe. Most "authorities"
      suggest it
      > >is a combined term referring to Bohemians and Hungarians. I think
      there is
      > >another explanation that they don't consider, and that is that
      the term may
      > >have come from Bohunka, which is a perfectly good family name
      found in
      > >Slovakia and (especially) Czech Republic. The term has bothered
      me because
      > >it doesn't seem quite natural geographically to lump together
      Bohemians and
      > >Hungarians, even for ignorant Americans.
      > >
      > >Janet
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
      email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > >Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Bill Tarkulich
      According to http://www.tol.cz Central Europe is czech republic estonia hungary latvia lithuania poland slovakia slovenia
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
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        According to http://www.tol.cz

        Central Europe is
        czech republic estonia hungary latvia
        lithuania poland slovakia slovenia

        Eastern Europe is
        belarus moldova russia ukraine

        Seems reasonable to me.

        Bill Tarkulich


        On Thu, December 1, 2005 9:23 am, amiak27 said:
        > Yes, it seems that "Eastern Europe" was redefined for the cold war,
        > but now that that war is past the old use of "Central Europe" is
        > coming back.
        >
        > On the location of the center of Europe, I also visited one, but
        > this one is 25 km (15 miles) due north of Vilnius, Lithuania. THat
        > distinctly puts Slovakia in western central Europe. Our western
        > bend to history includes geography. Most people report "the highest
        > European mountain" in France, I believe, where it is really in the
        > southern Ukraine/ Caucauses.
        >
        > Perhaps we should start to collect locations of all the
        > different "centers of Europe" that various people have proclaimed.
        >
        > Ron
        >
        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joyce & Bill <bhewlett@v...>
        > wrote:
        >>
        >> You are right in what you say. I think after WW2 and during the
        > communist era, the American mind set was to divide Europe into the
        > free West and the Communist East and the central didn't exist. Now
        > that things have changed, unless one is interested in those
        > countries, which are central, people still tend to think of them as
        > Eastern Europe.
        >> Joyce
        >>
        >> From: maureen <maureen@d...>
        >> >Date: Wed Nov 30 23:34:56 CST 2005
        >> >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        >> >Subject: [S-R] Central Europe
        >>
        >> >Janet,
        >> >On my most recent trip to Slovakia and Ukraine I was amazed to
        > see the marker indicating the geographical center of Europe - it
        > sits in the eastern part of Zakarpattia, Ukraine, just across the
        > Tisa from Romania, almost to the town of Rahkiv. Now, when I hear
        > anyone, on this list or others, refer to Slovakia and Ukraine
        > as "Eastern Europe," the first thing I want to do is to write a
        > reply to correct the misconception. But, I never do it.
        >> >
        >> >You have given me the opportunity to send a positive note on this
        > topic, because you correctly identify the places of origin as
        > Central Europe. Thank you!
        >> >
        >> >Maureen Pulignano
        >> >www.deefalt.com
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:47:55 -0500
        >> > From: "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@c...>
        >> >Subject: RE: Bohok and Bohunk
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >I have been intrigued by the derogatory (not euphemistic)
        > term "Bohunk,"
        >> >referring to immigrants from Central Europe. Most "authorities"
        > suggest it
        >> >is a combined term referring to Bohemians and Hungarians. I think
        > there is
        >> >another explanation that they don't consider, and that is that
        > the term may
        >> >have come from Bohunka, which is a perfectly good family name
        > found in
        >> >Slovakia and (especially) Czech Republic. The term has bothered
        > me because
        >> >it doesn't seem quite natural geographically to lump together
        > Bohemians and
        >> >Hungarians, even for ignorant Americans.
        >> >
        >> >Janet
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
        > email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
        > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        --
        Bill Tarkulich
        http://www.iabsi.com
      • Armata, Joseph R. (JArmata)
        Well, it all depends on what your reference points are for measuring the center of Europe, since it s not like the area is nice smooth sphere or rectangle.
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
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          Well, it all depends on what your reference points are for measuring
          the center of Europe, since it's not like the area is nice smooth
          sphere or rectangle. There are at least 4 contenders in Slovakia,
          Ukraine, Poland, and Lithuania, and probably more:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_Center_of_Europe

          Joe A.



          -----Original Message-----
          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of maureen
          Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 12:35 AM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [S-R] Central Europe


          Janet,
          On my most recent trip to Slovakia and Ukraine I was amazed to see the
          marker indicating the geographical center of Europe - it sits in the
          eastern part of Zakarpattia, Ukraine, just across the Tisa from
          Romania, almost to the town of Rahkiv. Now, when I hear anyone, on
          this list or others, refer to Slovakia and Ukraine as "Eastern
          Europe," the first thing I want to do is to write a reply to correct
          the misconception. But, I never do it.

          You have given me the opportunity to send a positive note on this
          topic, because you correctly identify the places of origin as Central
          Europe. Thank you!

          Maureen Pulignano
          www.deefalt.com
        • Jan Ammann
          Hello..........well I guess I have learned something here......I have always thought Hungary was Eastern Europe.....in fact, the friends I have in Hungary do
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello..........well I guess I have learned something here......I have always thought Hungary was Eastern Europe.....in fact, the friends I have in Hungary do identify themselves as "Eastern Europe". So is this a wide misconception??

            Bill......I am curious. I see you gave a website to back up the info. However, how does one become expert enough to be able to identify regions.......is this done by mapping or what. Would appreciate a viewpoint from you and others on this.

            Cheers,
            Aloysia (Jan)

            Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
            According to http://www.tol.cz

            Central Europe is
            czech republic estonia hungary latvia
            lithuania poland slovakia slovenia

            Eastern Europe is
            belarus moldova russia ukraine

            Seems reasonable to me.

            Bill Tarkulich


            On Thu, December 1, 2005 9:23 am, amiak27 said:
            > Yes, it seems that "Eastern Europe" was redefined for the cold war,
            > but now that that war is past the old use of "Central Europe" is
            > coming back.
            >
            > On the location of the center of Europe, I also visited one, but
            > this one is 25 km (15 miles) due north of Vilnius, Lithuania. THat
            > distinctly puts Slovakia in western central Europe. Our western
            > bend to history includes geography. Most people report "the highest
            > European mountain" in France, I believe, where it is really in the
            > southern Ukraine/ Caucauses.
            >
            > Perhaps we should start to collect locations of all the
            > different "centers of Europe" that various people have proclaimed.
            >
            > Ron
            >
            > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joyce & Bill <bhewlett@v...>
            > wrote:
            >>
            >> You are right in what you say. I think after WW2 and during the
            > communist era, the American mind set was to divide Europe into the
            > free West and the Communist East and the central didn't exist. Now
            > that things have changed, unless one is interested in those
            > countries, which are central, people still tend to think of them as
            > Eastern Europe.
            >> Joyce
            >>
            >> From: maureen <maureen@d...>
            >> >Date: Wed Nov 30 23:34:56 CST 2005
            >> >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            >> >Subject: [S-R] Central Europe
            >>
            >> >Janet,
            >> >On my most recent trip to Slovakia and Ukraine I was amazed to
            > see the marker indicating the geographical center of Europe - it
            > sits in the eastern part of Zakarpattia, Ukraine, just across the
            > Tisa from Romania, almost to the town of Rahkiv. Now, when I hear
            > anyone, on this list or others, refer to Slovakia and Ukraine
            > as "Eastern Europe," the first thing I want to do is to write a
            > reply to correct the misconception. But, I never do it.
            >> >
            >> >You have given me the opportunity to send a positive note on this
            > topic, because you correctly identify the places of origin as
            > Central Europe. Thank you!
            >> >
            >> >Maureen Pulignano
            >> >www.deefalt.com
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
            > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >


            --
            Bill Tarkulich
            http://www.iabsi.com



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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Bill Tarkulich
            Jan, As you can see, it all depends on your point of view. There is no official definition. I cited the URL to give you the source of this, not to sanction
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
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              Jan,

              As you can see, it all depends on your point of view. There is no
              "official definition."

              I cited the URL to give you the source of this, not to sanction it.

              Americans, as a group (and I am one) are incredibly ignorant of this
              region. Ask a few to place Slovakia on a map, or tell you what countries
              it is adjacent to. It's as bad as Sierra Leone.

              Bill

              On Thu, December 1, 2005 11:18 am, Jan Ammann said:
              > Hello..........well I guess I have learned something here......I have
              > always thought Hungary was Eastern Europe.....in fact, the friends I have
              > in Hungary do identify themselves as "Eastern Europe". So is this a wide
              > misconception??
              >
              > Bill......I am curious. I see you gave a website to back up the info.
              > However, how does one become expert enough to be able to identify
              > regions.......is this done by mapping or what. Would appreciate a
              > viewpoint from you and others on this.
              >
              > Cheers,
              > Aloysia (Jan)
              >
              > Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
              > According to http://www.tol.cz
              >
              > Central Europe is
              > czech republic estonia hungary latvia
              > lithuania poland slovakia slovenia
              >
              > Eastern Europe is
              > belarus moldova russia ukraine
              >
              > Seems reasonable to me.
              >
              > Bill Tarkulich
              >
              >
              > On Thu, December 1, 2005 9:23 am, amiak27 said:
              >> Yes, it seems that "Eastern Europe" was redefined for the cold war,
              >> but now that that war is past the old use of "Central Europe" is
              >> coming back.
              >>
              >> On the location of the center of Europe, I also visited one, but
              >> this one is 25 km (15 miles) due north of Vilnius, Lithuania. THat
              >> distinctly puts Slovakia in western central Europe. Our western
              >> bend to history includes geography. Most people report "the highest
              >> European mountain" in France, I believe, where it is really in the
              >> southern Ukraine/ Caucauses.
              >>
              >> Perhaps we should start to collect locations of all the
              >> different "centers of Europe" that various people have proclaimed.
              >>
              >> Ron
              >>
              >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joyce & Bill <bhewlett@v...>
              >> wrote:
              >>>
              >>> You are right in what you say. I think after WW2 and during the
              >> communist era, the American mind set was to divide Europe into the
              >> free West and the Communist East and the central didn't exist. Now
              >> that things have changed, unless one is interested in those
              >> countries, which are central, people still tend to think of them as
              >> Eastern Europe.
              >>> Joyce
              >>>
              >>> From: maureen <maureen@d...>
              >>> >Date: Wed Nov 30 23:34:56 CST 2005
              >>> >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              >>> >Subject: [S-R] Central Europe
              >>>
              >>> >Janet,
              >>> >On my most recent trip to Slovakia and Ukraine I was amazed to
              >> see the marker indicating the geographical center of Europe - it
              >> sits in the eastern part of Zakarpattia, Ukraine, just across the
              >> Tisa from Romania, almost to the town of Rahkiv. Now, when I hear
              >> anyone, on this list or others, refer to Slovakia and Ukraine
              >> as "Eastern Europe," the first thing I want to do is to write a
              >> reply to correct the misconception. But, I never do it.
              >>> >
              >>> >You have given me the opportunity to send a positive note on this
              >> topic, because you correctly identify the places of origin as
              >> Central Europe. Thank you!
              >>> >
              >>> >Maureen Pulignano
              >>> >www.deefalt.com
              >>> >
              >>> >
              >>> >
              >>> > >
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
              >> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              > --
              > Bill Tarkulich
              > http://www.iabsi.com
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
              > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
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              >
              > Visit your group "SLOVAK-ROOTS" on the web.
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              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
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              http://www.iabsi.com
            • John Venham
              Almost all recent scholarly works discuss the difficulty of assigning a geographical label to this region. Technically, Europe is not a distinct continent,
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
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                Almost all recent scholarly works discuss the
                difficulty of assigning a geographical label to this
                region. Technically, Europe is not a distinct
                continent, but rather a large peninsula on the western
                part of the Eurasian landmass. As such, it is
                impossible to draw a line to define the 'limit' of
                Europe, let alone the 'eastern half' of it. The same
                ambiguity arises in other dimensions, such as history,
                politics, economics and society. Citizens in all of
                the countries between Germany and Russia consider
                themselves as naturally belonging to 'the West' and
                all look down on the nations just to their east as
                less developed and more backward.

                Pjotr Wandycz, author of 'The Price of Freedom',
                prefaces his book with an essay on this topic.

                I've spent the best part of the past 5 years in the
                Czech Rep, Slovakia and Hungary. I must agree that as
                one proceeds eastward from Germany, there is an
                obvious gradation downward in terms of economic
                development. From brief visits to Germany and
                Austria, my impression was that there is a better
                business sense and smoother administration there than
                here. Rules tend to make logical sense, and are
                followed more willingly and consistently. Socially,
                the family unit is very strong here in CR, S and H.
                Small children are cared for by grandparents while the
                parents work during the day; and often adult children
                live at home up to the age of 30. While a positive
                element of the culture, this sense of community
                doesn't extend far beyond the family circle. In
                addition, this entails a tremendous influence from the
                distant past in terms of ways of thinking, problem
                solving, work ethic, etc. The result is a society
                that doesn't function very efficiently in the
                collective. This social dynamics has a direct
                influence on business development. The communist era
                is often cited, and justifiably, as the blame for much
                of the current condition here, but it is my opinion
                that the cultural influence from the past provides a
                necessary supplemental explanation. Rather than these
                societies waking up from the communist hang-over and
                getting back to 'normal' (was the period 1918-1939
                normal?), I feel they finally are on an open road to
                develop their potential more naturally. It remains to
                be seen, if this will match that acheived in the West,
                or even surpass it. And this aspect should carry more
                weight in the determination of east, west or central
                designations than rivers or mountain ranges. Right
                now, I'm living in eastern Europe. Perhaps when I
                retire, I'll be returning to simply visit 'Europe.'

                John Venham


                --- Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:

                > Jan,
                >
                > As you can see, it all depends on your point of
                > view. There is no
                > "official definition."
                >
                > I cited the URL to give you the source of this, not
                > to sanction it.
                >
                > Americans, as a group (and I am one) are incredibly
                > ignorant of this
                > region. Ask a few to place Slovakia on a map, or
                > tell you what countries
                > it is adjacent to. It's as bad as Sierra Leone.
                >
                > Bill
                >
                > On Thu, December 1, 2005 11:18 am, Jan Ammann said:
                > > Hello..........well I guess I have learned
                > something here......I have
                > > always thought Hungary was Eastern Europe.....in
                > fact, the friends I have
                > > in Hungary do identify themselves as "Eastern
                > Europe". So is this a wide
                > > misconception??
                > >
                > > Bill......I am curious. I see you gave a website
                > to back up the info.
                > > However, how does one become expert enough to be
                > able to identify
                > > regions.......is this done by mapping or what.
                > Would appreciate a
                > > viewpoint from you and others on this.
                > >
                > > Cheers,
                > > Aloysia (Jan)
                > >
                > > Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
                > > According to http://www.tol.cz
                > >
                > > Central Europe is
                > > czech republic estonia hungary
                > latvia
                > > lithuania poland slovakia
                > slovenia
                > >
                > > Eastern Europe is
                > > belarus moldova russia ukraine
                > >
                > > Seems reasonable to me.
                > >
                > > Bill Tarkulich
                > >
                > >
                > > On Thu, December 1, 2005 9:23 am, amiak27 said:
                > >> Yes, it seems that "Eastern Europe" was redefined
                > for the cold war,
                > >> but now that that war is past the old use of
                > "Central Europe" is
                > >> coming back.
                > >>
                > >> On the location of the center of Europe, I also
                > visited one, but
                > >> this one is 25 km (15 miles) due north of
                > Vilnius, Lithuania. THat
                > >> distinctly puts Slovakia in western central
                > Europe. Our western
                > >> bend to history includes geography. Most people
                > report "the highest
                > >> European mountain" in France, I believe, where it
                > is really in the
                > >> southern Ukraine/ Caucauses.
                > >>
                > >> Perhaps we should start to collect locations of
                > all the
                > >> different "centers of Europe" that various people
                > have proclaimed.
                > >>
                > >> Ron
                > >>
                > >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joyce & Bill
                > <bhewlett@v...>
                > >> wrote:
                > >>>
                > >>> You are right in what you say. I think after
                > WW2 and during the
                > >> communist era, the American mind set was to
                > divide Europe into the
                > >> free West and the Communist East and the central
                > didn't exist. Now
                > >> that things have changed, unless one is
                > interested in those
                > >> countries, which are central, people still tend
                > to think of them as
                > >> Eastern Europe.
                > >>> Joyce
                > >>>
                > >>> From: maureen <maureen@d...>
                > >>> >Date: Wed Nov 30 23:34:56 CST 2005
                > >>> >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > >>> >Subject: [S-R] Central Europe
                > >>>
                > >>> >Janet,
                > >>> >On my most recent trip to Slovakia and Ukraine
                > I was amazed to
                > >> see the marker indicating the geographical center
                > of Europe - it
                > >> sits in the eastern part of Zakarpattia, Ukraine,
                > just across the
                > >> Tisa from Romania, almost to the town of Rahkiv.
                > Now, when I hear
                > >> anyone, on this list or others, refer to Slovakia
                > and Ukraine
                > >> as "Eastern Europe," the first thing I want to do
                > is to write a
                > >> reply to correct the misconception. But, I never
                > do it.
                > >>> >
                > >>> >You have given me the opportunity to send a
                > positive note on this
                > >> topic, because you correctly identify the places
                > of origin as
                > >> Central Europe. Thank you!
                > >>> >
                > >>> >Maureen Pulignano
                > >>> >www.deefalt.com
                > >>> >
                > >>> >
                > >>> >
                > >>> > >
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              • Jan Ammann
                Hello John........Thank you very much for your thoughtful and very worthy reply on this subject. Your explanation of the life of Cr, S, and H really hits the
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
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                  Hello John........Thank you very much for your thoughtful and very worthy reply on this subject. Your explanation of the life of Cr, S, and H really hits the nail on the head for me. I have family in Hungary........and write very often for the last two years with two brothers........one who has remained in Hungary with an excellent job and one who has moved on to a really great position in another country in what I guess we would call "regular Europe"..........smile...

                  The brother who has moved away now sees the restraint and the attitude of those back in Hungary as being more backward. I can tell by his words that he enjoys this new "mind freedom" (for want of a better word) and although he hopes to move back one day, he feels a "new life" has come to him and his family....a new way of thinking.

                  The brother who is in Hungary is very nice and a hard worker but probably more set in his ways than his brother. As you indicated, he is very close to his parents. I do hear words like "the old ways" and when "the communists were here". So there is that mind set. However, he does look forward to a better life but I do see the differences between the two of them.

                  I do believe, however, that these nations, especially Hungary, are moving toward a better business community which will open up new worlds for all its people.....better salaries, etc. They are moving upward.......not at the "speed of sound" but more slowly.....but they are "moving" and that is the criteria I look at.

                  Again.......thank you for your words.................Jan


                  John Venham <jevenham@...> wrote:
                  Almost all recent scholarly works discuss the
                  difficulty of assigning a geographical label to this
                  region. Technically, Europe is not a distinct
                  continent, but rather a large peninsula on the western
                  part of the Eurasian landmass. As such, it is
                  impossible to draw a line to define the 'limit' of
                  Europe, let alone the 'eastern half' of it. The same
                  ambiguity arises in other dimensions, such as history,
                  politics, economics and society. Citizens in all of
                  the countries between Germany and Russia consider
                  themselves as naturally belonging to 'the West' and
                  all look down on the nations just to their east as
                  less developed and more backward.

                  Pjotr Wandycz, author of 'The Price of Freedom',
                  prefaces his book with an essay on this topic.

                  I've spent the best part of the past 5 years in the
                  Czech Rep, Slovakia and Hungary. I must agree that as
                  one proceeds eastward from Germany, there is an
                  obvious gradation downward in terms of economic
                  development. From brief visits to Germany and
                  Austria, my impression was that there is a better
                  business sense and smoother administration there than
                  here. Rules tend to make logical sense, and are
                  followed more willingly and consistently. Socially,
                  the family unit is very strong here in CR, S and H.
                  Small children are cared for by grandparents while the
                  parents work during the day; and often adult children
                  live at home up to the age of 30. While a positive
                  element of the culture, this sense of community
                  doesn't extend far beyond the family circle. In
                  addition, this entails a tremendous influence from the
                  distant past in terms of ways of thinking, problem
                  solving, work ethic, etc. The result is a society
                  that doesn't function very efficiently in the
                  collective. This social dynamics has a direct
                  influence on business development. The communist era
                  is often cited, and justifiably, as the blame for much
                  of the current condition here, but it is my opinion
                  that the cultural influence from the past provides a
                  necessary supplemental explanation. Rather than these
                  societies waking up from the communist hang-over and
                  getting back to 'normal' (was the period 1918-1939
                  normal?), I feel they finally are on an open road to
                  develop their potential more naturally. It remains to
                  be seen, if this will match that acheived in the West,
                  or even surpass it. And this aspect should carry more
                  weight in the determination of east, west or central
                  designations than rivers or mountain ranges. Right
                  now, I'm living in eastern Europe. Perhaps when I
                  retire, I'll be returning to simply visit 'Europe.'

                  John Venham


                  --- Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:

                  > Jan,
                  >
                  > As you can see, it all depends on your point of
                  > view. There is no
                  > "official definition."
                  >
                  > I cited the URL to give you the source of this, not
                  > to sanction it.
                  >
                  > Americans, as a group (and I am one) are incredibly
                  > ignorant of this
                  > region. Ask a few to place Slovakia on a map, or
                  > tell you what countries
                  > it is adjacent to. It's as bad as Sierra Leone.
                  >
                  > Bill
                  >
                  > On Thu, December 1, 2005 11:18 am, Jan Ammann said:
                  > > Hello..........well I guess I have learned
                  > something here......I have
                  > > always thought Hungary was Eastern Europe.....in
                  > fact, the friends I have
                  > > in Hungary do identify themselves as "Eastern
                  > Europe". So is this a wide
                  > > misconception??
                  > >
                  > > Bill......I am curious. I see you gave a website
                  > to back up the info.
                  > > However, how does one become expert enough to be
                  > able to identify
                  > > regions.......is this done by mapping or what.
                  > Would appreciate a
                  > > viewpoint from you and others on this.
                  > >
                  > > Cheers,
                  > > Aloysia (Jan)
                  > >
                  > > Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
                  > > According to http://www.tol.cz
                  > >
                  > > Central Europe is
                  > > czech republic estonia hungary
                  > latvia
                  > > lithuania poland slovakia
                  > slovenia
                  > >
                  > > Eastern Europe is
                  > > belarus moldova russia ukraine
                  > >
                  > > Seems reasonable to me.
                  > >
                  > > Bill Tarkulich
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > On Thu, December 1, 2005 9:23 am, amiak27 said:
                  > >> Yes, it seems that "Eastern Europe" was redefined
                  > for the cold war,
                  > >> but now that that war is past the old use of
                  > "Central Europe" is
                  > >> coming back.
                  > >>
                  > >> On the location of the center of Europe, I also
                  > visited one, but
                  > >> this one is 25 km (15 miles) due north of
                  > Vilnius, Lithuania. THat
                  > >> distinctly puts Slovakia in western central
                  > Europe. Our western
                  > >> bend to history includes geography. Most people
                  > report "the highest
                  > >> European mountain" in France, I believe, where it
                  > is really in the
                  > >> southern Ukraine/ Caucauses.
                  > >>
                  > >> Perhaps we should start to collect locations of
                  > all the
                  > >> different "centers of Europe" that various people
                  > have proclaimed.
                  > >>
                  > >> Ron
                  > >>
                  > >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joyce & Bill
                  > <bhewlett@v...>
                  > >> wrote:
                  > >>>
                  > >>> You are right in what you say. I think after
                  > WW2 and during the
                  > >> communist era, the American mind set was to
                  > divide Europe into the
                  > >> free West and the Communist East and the central
                  > didn't exist. Now
                  > >> that things have changed, unless one is
                  > interested in those
                  > >> countries, which are central, people still tend
                  > to think of them as
                  > >> Eastern Europe.
                  > >>> Joyce
                  > >>>
                  > >>> From: maureen <maureen@d...>
                  > >>> >Date: Wed Nov 30 23:34:56 CST 2005
                  > >>> >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > >>> >Subject: [S-R] Central Europe
                  > >>>
                  > >>> >Janet,
                  > >>> >On my most recent trip to Slovakia and Ukraine
                  > I was amazed to
                  > >> see the marker indicating the geographical center
                  > of Europe - it
                  > >> sits in the eastern part of Zakarpattia, Ukraine,
                  > just across the
                  > >> Tisa from Romania, almost to the town of Rahkiv.
                  > Now, when I hear
                  > >> anyone, on this list or others, refer to Slovakia
                  > and Ukraine
                  > >> as "Eastern Europe," the first thing I want to do
                  > is to write a
                  > >> reply to correct the misconception. But, I never
                  > do it.
                  > >>> >
                  > >>> >You have given me the opportunity to send a
                  > positive note on this
                  > >> topic, because you correctly identify the places
                  > of origin as
                  > >> Central Europe. Thank you!
                  > >>> >
                  > >>> >Maureen Pulignano
                  > >>> >www.deefalt.com
                  > >>> >
                  > >>> >
                  > >>> >
                  > >>> > >
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  > >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                  > -or- send blank email to
                  > >> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > Bill Tarkulich
                  > > http://www.iabsi.com
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
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                  > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                • amiak27
                  Jan, You have had some good answers and different perspectives. I am surprised the source Bill named did not include Germany in Central Europe. Certainly the
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
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                    Jan,

                    You have had some good answers and different perspectives. I am
                    surprised the source Bill named did not include Germany in Central
                    Europe. Certainly the Germans consider themselves so, and back
                    around 1914 so did we - Germany & Austria-Hungary were "the Central
                    Powers".

                    There is a desire for people of Europe to identify with the west,
                    and the Lithuanians were quite happy that some Scandinavian
                    geographer located the center of Europe so close to Vilnius.

                    Traditionally I read that Europe ends at the Ural Mountains, but in
                    looking at a topographic map of the Eurasian continent, the line is
                    not so terribly obvious. I also suspect that Europe would never
                    have been declared a continent if the concept had not been invented
                    there.

                    Getting into the sociology and business practices of the countries
                    is a whole new ball of wax. I lived in Germany for 9 of my 10 years
                    in Europe, and their social and business practices are quite
                    different from ours, but happily also compatible. I suspect the new
                    members of the EU will quickly adapt, but wonder if Russia will be
                    able to make the radical change in the next 50 years. It is a great
                    gap that separates us.

                    Let's toast to the death of the Cold War! Too bad it did not die 50
                    years earlier; we could have enjoyed our history and families that
                    much sooner!


                    Ron

                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jan Ammann <janammann@s...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello..........well I guess I have learned something here......I
                    have always thought Hungary was Eastern Europe.....in fact, the
                    friends I have in Hungary do identify themselves as "Eastern
                    Europe". So is this a wide misconception??
                    >
                    > Bill......I am curious. I see you gave a website to back up the
                    info. However, how does one become expert enough to be able to
                    identify regions.......is this done by mapping or what. Would
                    appreciate a viewpoint from you and others on this.
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    > Aloysia (Jan)
                    >
                    > Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@i...> wrote:
                    > According to http://www.tol.cz
                    >
                    > Central Europe is
                    > czech republic estonia hungary latvia
                    > lithuania poland slovakia slovenia
                    >
                    > Eastern Europe is
                    > belarus moldova russia ukraine
                    >
                    > Seems reasonable to me.
                    >
                    > Bill Tarkulich
                    >
                    >
                    > On Thu, December 1, 2005 9:23 am, amiak27 said:
                    > > Yes, it seems that "Eastern Europe" was redefined for the cold
                    war,
                    > > but now that that war is past the old use of "Central Europe" is
                    > > coming back.
                    > >
                    > > On the location of the center of Europe, I also visited one, but
                    > > this one is 25 km (15 miles) due north of Vilnius, Lithuania.
                    THat
                    > > distinctly puts Slovakia in western central Europe. Our western
                    > > bend to history includes geography. Most people report "the
                    highest
                    > > European mountain" in France, I believe, where it is really in
                    the
                    > > southern Ukraine/ Caucauses.
                    > >
                    > > Perhaps we should start to collect locations of all the
                    > > different "centers of Europe" that various people have
                    proclaimed.
                    > >
                    > > Ron
                    > >
                    > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joyce & Bill <bhewlett@v...>
                    > > wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >> You are right in what you say. I think after WW2 and during the
                    > > communist era, the American mind set was to divide Europe into
                    the
                    > > free West and the Communist East and the central didn't exist.
                    Now
                    > > that things have changed, unless one is interested in those
                    > > countries, which are central, people still tend to think of them
                    as
                    > > Eastern Europe.
                    > >> Joyce
                    > >>
                    > >> From: maureen <maureen@d...>
                    > >> >Date: Wed Nov 30 23:34:56 CST 2005
                    > >> >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > >> >Subject: [S-R] Central Europe
                    > >>
                    > >> >Janet,
                    > >> >On my most recent trip to Slovakia and Ukraine I was amazed to
                    > > see the marker indicating the geographical center of Europe - it
                    > > sits in the eastern part of Zakarpattia, Ukraine, just across the
                    > > Tisa from Romania, almost to the town of Rahkiv. Now, when I hear
                    > > anyone, on this list or others, refer to Slovakia and Ukraine
                    > > as "Eastern Europe," the first thing I want to do is to write a
                    > > reply to correct the misconception. But, I never do it.
                    > >> >
                    > >> >You have given me the opportunity to send a positive note on
                    this
                    > > topic, because you correctly identify the places of origin as
                    > > Central Europe. Thank you!
                    > >> >
                    > >> >Maureen Pulignano
                    > >> >www.deefalt.com
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
                    email to
                    > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Bill Tarkulich
                    > http://www.iabsi.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
                    email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
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