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Re: [S-R] Central Europe

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  • Joyce & Bill
    You are right in what you say. I think after WW2 and during the communist era, the American mind set was to divide Europe into the free West and the Communist
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 30, 2005
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      You are right in what you say. I think after WW2 and during the communist era, the American mind set was to divide Europe into the free West and the Communist East and the central didn't exist. Now that things have changed, unless one is interested in those countries, which are central, people still tend to think of them as Eastern Europe.
      Joyce

      From: maureen <maureen@...>
      >Date: Wed Nov 30 23:34:56 CST 2005
      >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [S-R] Central Europe

      >Janet,
      >On my most recent trip to Slovakia and Ukraine I was amazed to see the marker indicating the geographical center of Europe - it sits in the eastern part of Zakarpattia, Ukraine, just across the Tisa from Romania, almost to the town of Rahkiv. Now, when I hear anyone, on this list or others, refer to Slovakia and Ukraine as "Eastern Europe," the first thing I want to do is to write a reply to correct the misconception. But, I never do it.
      >
      >You have given me the opportunity to send a positive note on this topic, because you correctly identify the places of origin as Central Europe. Thank you!
      >
      >Maureen Pulignano
      >www.deefalt.com
      >
      >
      >
      > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:47:55 -0500
      > From: "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...>
      >Subject: RE: Bohok and Bohunk
      >
      >
      >I have been intrigued by the derogatory (not euphemistic) term "Bohunk,"
      >referring to immigrants from Central Europe. Most "authorities" suggest it
      >is a combined term referring to Bohemians and Hungarians. I think there is
      >another explanation that they don't consider, and that is that the term may
      >have come from Bohunka, which is a perfectly good family name found in
      >Slovakia and (especially) Czech Republic. The term has bothered me because
      >it doesn't seem quite natural geographically to lump together Bohemians and
      >Hungarians, even for ignorant Americans.
      >
      >Janet
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • amiak27
      Yes, it seems that Eastern Europe was redefined for the cold war, but now that that war is past the old use of Central Europe is coming back. On the
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
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        Yes, it seems that "Eastern Europe" was redefined for the cold war,
        but now that that war is past the old use of "Central Europe" is
        coming back.

        On the location of the center of Europe, I also visited one, but
        this one is 25 km (15 miles) due north of Vilnius, Lithuania. THat
        distinctly puts Slovakia in western central Europe. Our western
        bend to history includes geography. Most people report "the highest
        European mountain" in France, I believe, where it is really in the
        southern Ukraine/ Caucauses.

        Perhaps we should start to collect locations of all the
        different "centers of Europe" that various people have proclaimed.

        Ron

        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joyce & Bill <bhewlett@v...>
        wrote:
        >
        > You are right in what you say. I think after WW2 and during the
        communist era, the American mind set was to divide Europe into the
        free West and the Communist East and the central didn't exist. Now
        that things have changed, unless one is interested in those
        countries, which are central, people still tend to think of them as
        Eastern Europe.
        > Joyce
        >
        > From: maureen <maureen@d...>
        > >Date: Wed Nov 30 23:34:56 CST 2005
        > >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > >Subject: [S-R] Central Europe
        >
        > >Janet,
        > >On my most recent trip to Slovakia and Ukraine I was amazed to
        see the marker indicating the geographical center of Europe - it
        sits in the eastern part of Zakarpattia, Ukraine, just across the
        Tisa from Romania, almost to the town of Rahkiv. Now, when I hear
        anyone, on this list or others, refer to Slovakia and Ukraine
        as "Eastern Europe," the first thing I want to do is to write a
        reply to correct the misconception. But, I never do it.
        > >
        > >You have given me the opportunity to send a positive note on this
        topic, because you correctly identify the places of origin as
        Central Europe. Thank you!
        > >
        > >Maureen Pulignano
        > >www.deefalt.com
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:47:55 -0500
        > > From: "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@c...>
        > >Subject: RE: Bohok and Bohunk
        > >
        > >
        > >I have been intrigued by the derogatory (not euphemistic)
        term "Bohunk,"
        > >referring to immigrants from Central Europe. Most "authorities"
        suggest it
        > >is a combined term referring to Bohemians and Hungarians. I think
        there is
        > >another explanation that they don't consider, and that is that
        the term may
        > >have come from Bohunka, which is a perfectly good family name
        found in
        > >Slovakia and (especially) Czech Republic. The term has bothered
        me because
        > >it doesn't seem quite natural geographically to lump together
        Bohemians and
        > >Hungarians, even for ignorant Americans.
        > >
        > >Janet
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
        email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Bill Tarkulich
        According to http://www.tol.cz Central Europe is czech republic estonia hungary latvia lithuania poland slovakia slovenia
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
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          According to http://www.tol.cz

          Central Europe is
          czech republic estonia hungary latvia
          lithuania poland slovakia slovenia

          Eastern Europe is
          belarus moldova russia ukraine

          Seems reasonable to me.

          Bill Tarkulich


          On Thu, December 1, 2005 9:23 am, amiak27 said:
          > Yes, it seems that "Eastern Europe" was redefined for the cold war,
          > but now that that war is past the old use of "Central Europe" is
          > coming back.
          >
          > On the location of the center of Europe, I also visited one, but
          > this one is 25 km (15 miles) due north of Vilnius, Lithuania. THat
          > distinctly puts Slovakia in western central Europe. Our western
          > bend to history includes geography. Most people report "the highest
          > European mountain" in France, I believe, where it is really in the
          > southern Ukraine/ Caucauses.
          >
          > Perhaps we should start to collect locations of all the
          > different "centers of Europe" that various people have proclaimed.
          >
          > Ron
          >
          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joyce & Bill <bhewlett@v...>
          > wrote:
          >>
          >> You are right in what you say. I think after WW2 and during the
          > communist era, the American mind set was to divide Europe into the
          > free West and the Communist East and the central didn't exist. Now
          > that things have changed, unless one is interested in those
          > countries, which are central, people still tend to think of them as
          > Eastern Europe.
          >> Joyce
          >>
          >> From: maureen <maureen@d...>
          >> >Date: Wed Nov 30 23:34:56 CST 2005
          >> >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          >> >Subject: [S-R] Central Europe
          >>
          >> >Janet,
          >> >On my most recent trip to Slovakia and Ukraine I was amazed to
          > see the marker indicating the geographical center of Europe - it
          > sits in the eastern part of Zakarpattia, Ukraine, just across the
          > Tisa from Romania, almost to the town of Rahkiv. Now, when I hear
          > anyone, on this list or others, refer to Slovakia and Ukraine
          > as "Eastern Europe," the first thing I want to do is to write a
          > reply to correct the misconception. But, I never do it.
          >> >
          >> >You have given me the opportunity to send a positive note on this
          > topic, because you correctly identify the places of origin as
          > Central Europe. Thank you!
          >> >
          >> >Maureen Pulignano
          >> >www.deefalt.com
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:47:55 -0500
          >> > From: "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@c...>
          >> >Subject: RE: Bohok and Bohunk
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >I have been intrigued by the derogatory (not euphemistic)
          > term "Bohunk,"
          >> >referring to immigrants from Central Europe. Most "authorities"
          > suggest it
          >> >is a combined term referring to Bohemians and Hungarians. I think
          > there is
          >> >another explanation that they don't consider, and that is that
          > the term may
          >> >have come from Bohunka, which is a perfectly good family name
          > found in
          >> >Slovakia and (especially) Czech Republic. The term has bothered
          > me because
          >> >it doesn't seem quite natural geographically to lump together
          > Bohemians and
          >> >Hungarians, even for ignorant Americans.
          >> >
          >> >Janet
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >To unsubscribe from this group, go to
          > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
          > email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
          > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
          > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


          --
          Bill Tarkulich
          http://www.iabsi.com
        • Armata, Joseph R. (JArmata)
          Well, it all depends on what your reference points are for measuring the center of Europe, since it s not like the area is nice smooth sphere or rectangle.
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
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            Well, it all depends on what your reference points are for measuring
            the center of Europe, since it's not like the area is nice smooth
            sphere or rectangle. There are at least 4 contenders in Slovakia,
            Ukraine, Poland, and Lithuania, and probably more:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_Center_of_Europe

            Joe A.



            -----Original Message-----
            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of maureen
            Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 12:35 AM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [S-R] Central Europe


            Janet,
            On my most recent trip to Slovakia and Ukraine I was amazed to see the
            marker indicating the geographical center of Europe - it sits in the
            eastern part of Zakarpattia, Ukraine, just across the Tisa from
            Romania, almost to the town of Rahkiv. Now, when I hear anyone, on
            this list or others, refer to Slovakia and Ukraine as "Eastern
            Europe," the first thing I want to do is to write a reply to correct
            the misconception. But, I never do it.

            You have given me the opportunity to send a positive note on this
            topic, because you correctly identify the places of origin as Central
            Europe. Thank you!

            Maureen Pulignano
            www.deefalt.com
          • Jan Ammann
            Hello..........well I guess I have learned something here......I have always thought Hungary was Eastern Europe.....in fact, the friends I have in Hungary do
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
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              Hello..........well I guess I have learned something here......I have always thought Hungary was Eastern Europe.....in fact, the friends I have in Hungary do identify themselves as "Eastern Europe". So is this a wide misconception??

              Bill......I am curious. I see you gave a website to back up the info. However, how does one become expert enough to be able to identify regions.......is this done by mapping or what. Would appreciate a viewpoint from you and others on this.

              Cheers,
              Aloysia (Jan)

              Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
              According to http://www.tol.cz

              Central Europe is
              czech republic estonia hungary latvia
              lithuania poland slovakia slovenia

              Eastern Europe is
              belarus moldova russia ukraine

              Seems reasonable to me.

              Bill Tarkulich


              On Thu, December 1, 2005 9:23 am, amiak27 said:
              > Yes, it seems that "Eastern Europe" was redefined for the cold war,
              > but now that that war is past the old use of "Central Europe" is
              > coming back.
              >
              > On the location of the center of Europe, I also visited one, but
              > this one is 25 km (15 miles) due north of Vilnius, Lithuania. THat
              > distinctly puts Slovakia in western central Europe. Our western
              > bend to history includes geography. Most people report "the highest
              > European mountain" in France, I believe, where it is really in the
              > southern Ukraine/ Caucauses.
              >
              > Perhaps we should start to collect locations of all the
              > different "centers of Europe" that various people have proclaimed.
              >
              > Ron
              >
              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joyce & Bill <bhewlett@v...>
              > wrote:
              >>
              >> You are right in what you say. I think after WW2 and during the
              > communist era, the American mind set was to divide Europe into the
              > free West and the Communist East and the central didn't exist. Now
              > that things have changed, unless one is interested in those
              > countries, which are central, people still tend to think of them as
              > Eastern Europe.
              >> Joyce
              >>
              >> From: maureen <maureen@d...>
              >> >Date: Wed Nov 30 23:34:56 CST 2005
              >> >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              >> >Subject: [S-R] Central Europe
              >>
              >> >Janet,
              >> >On my most recent trip to Slovakia and Ukraine I was amazed to
              > see the marker indicating the geographical center of Europe - it
              > sits in the eastern part of Zakarpattia, Ukraine, just across the
              > Tisa from Romania, almost to the town of Rahkiv. Now, when I hear
              > anyone, on this list or others, refer to Slovakia and Ukraine
              > as "Eastern Europe," the first thing I want to do is to write a
              > reply to correct the misconception. But, I never do it.
              >> >
              >> >You have given me the opportunity to send a positive note on this
              > topic, because you correctly identify the places of origin as
              > Central Europe. Thank you!
              >> >
              >> >Maureen Pulignano
              >> >www.deefalt.com
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
              > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


              --
              Bill Tarkulich
              http://www.iabsi.com



              To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Bill Tarkulich
              Jan, As you can see, it all depends on your point of view. There is no official definition. I cited the URL to give you the source of this, not to sanction
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
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                Jan,

                As you can see, it all depends on your point of view. There is no
                "official definition."

                I cited the URL to give you the source of this, not to sanction it.

                Americans, as a group (and I am one) are incredibly ignorant of this
                region. Ask a few to place Slovakia on a map, or tell you what countries
                it is adjacent to. It's as bad as Sierra Leone.

                Bill

                On Thu, December 1, 2005 11:18 am, Jan Ammann said:
                > Hello..........well I guess I have learned something here......I have
                > always thought Hungary was Eastern Europe.....in fact, the friends I have
                > in Hungary do identify themselves as "Eastern Europe". So is this a wide
                > misconception??
                >
                > Bill......I am curious. I see you gave a website to back up the info.
                > However, how does one become expert enough to be able to identify
                > regions.......is this done by mapping or what. Would appreciate a
                > viewpoint from you and others on this.
                >
                > Cheers,
                > Aloysia (Jan)
                >
                > Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
                > According to http://www.tol.cz
                >
                > Central Europe is
                > czech republic estonia hungary latvia
                > lithuania poland slovakia slovenia
                >
                > Eastern Europe is
                > belarus moldova russia ukraine
                >
                > Seems reasonable to me.
                >
                > Bill Tarkulich
                >
                >
                > On Thu, December 1, 2005 9:23 am, amiak27 said:
                >> Yes, it seems that "Eastern Europe" was redefined for the cold war,
                >> but now that that war is past the old use of "Central Europe" is
                >> coming back.
                >>
                >> On the location of the center of Europe, I also visited one, but
                >> this one is 25 km (15 miles) due north of Vilnius, Lithuania. THat
                >> distinctly puts Slovakia in western central Europe. Our western
                >> bend to history includes geography. Most people report "the highest
                >> European mountain" in France, I believe, where it is really in the
                >> southern Ukraine/ Caucauses.
                >>
                >> Perhaps we should start to collect locations of all the
                >> different "centers of Europe" that various people have proclaimed.
                >>
                >> Ron
                >>
                >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joyce & Bill <bhewlett@v...>
                >> wrote:
                >>>
                >>> You are right in what you say. I think after WW2 and during the
                >> communist era, the American mind set was to divide Europe into the
                >> free West and the Communist East and the central didn't exist. Now
                >> that things have changed, unless one is interested in those
                >> countries, which are central, people still tend to think of them as
                >> Eastern Europe.
                >>> Joyce
                >>>
                >>> From: maureen <maureen@d...>
                >>> >Date: Wed Nov 30 23:34:56 CST 2005
                >>> >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                >>> >Subject: [S-R] Central Europe
                >>>
                >>> >Janet,
                >>> >On my most recent trip to Slovakia and Ukraine I was amazed to
                >> see the marker indicating the geographical center of Europe - it
                >> sits in the eastern part of Zakarpattia, Ukraine, just across the
                >> Tisa from Romania, almost to the town of Rahkiv. Now, when I hear
                >> anyone, on this list or others, refer to Slovakia and Ukraine
                >> as "Eastern Europe," the first thing I want to do is to write a
                >> reply to correct the misconception. But, I never do it.
                >>> >
                >>> >You have given me the opportunity to send a positive note on this
                >> topic, because you correctly identify the places of origin as
                >> Central Europe. Thank you!
                >>> >
                >>> >Maureen Pulignano
                >>> >www.deefalt.com
                >>> >
                >>> >
                >>> >
                >>> > >
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                >> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                > --
                > Bill Tarkulich
                > http://www.iabsi.com
                >
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
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                >
                >
                >
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                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                Bill Tarkulich
                http://www.iabsi.com
              • John Venham
                Almost all recent scholarly works discuss the difficulty of assigning a geographical label to this region. Technically, Europe is not a distinct continent,
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
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                  Almost all recent scholarly works discuss the
                  difficulty of assigning a geographical label to this
                  region. Technically, Europe is not a distinct
                  continent, but rather a large peninsula on the western
                  part of the Eurasian landmass. As such, it is
                  impossible to draw a line to define the 'limit' of
                  Europe, let alone the 'eastern half' of it. The same
                  ambiguity arises in other dimensions, such as history,
                  politics, economics and society. Citizens in all of
                  the countries between Germany and Russia consider
                  themselves as naturally belonging to 'the West' and
                  all look down on the nations just to their east as
                  less developed and more backward.

                  Pjotr Wandycz, author of 'The Price of Freedom',
                  prefaces his book with an essay on this topic.

                  I've spent the best part of the past 5 years in the
                  Czech Rep, Slovakia and Hungary. I must agree that as
                  one proceeds eastward from Germany, there is an
                  obvious gradation downward in terms of economic
                  development. From brief visits to Germany and
                  Austria, my impression was that there is a better
                  business sense and smoother administration there than
                  here. Rules tend to make logical sense, and are
                  followed more willingly and consistently. Socially,
                  the family unit is very strong here in CR, S and H.
                  Small children are cared for by grandparents while the
                  parents work during the day; and often adult children
                  live at home up to the age of 30. While a positive
                  element of the culture, this sense of community
                  doesn't extend far beyond the family circle. In
                  addition, this entails a tremendous influence from the
                  distant past in terms of ways of thinking, problem
                  solving, work ethic, etc. The result is a society
                  that doesn't function very efficiently in the
                  collective. This social dynamics has a direct
                  influence on business development. The communist era
                  is often cited, and justifiably, as the blame for much
                  of the current condition here, but it is my opinion
                  that the cultural influence from the past provides a
                  necessary supplemental explanation. Rather than these
                  societies waking up from the communist hang-over and
                  getting back to 'normal' (was the period 1918-1939
                  normal?), I feel they finally are on an open road to
                  develop their potential more naturally. It remains to
                  be seen, if this will match that acheived in the West,
                  or even surpass it. And this aspect should carry more
                  weight in the determination of east, west or central
                  designations than rivers or mountain ranges. Right
                  now, I'm living in eastern Europe. Perhaps when I
                  retire, I'll be returning to simply visit 'Europe.'

                  John Venham


                  --- Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:

                  > Jan,
                  >
                  > As you can see, it all depends on your point of
                  > view. There is no
                  > "official definition."
                  >
                  > I cited the URL to give you the source of this, not
                  > to sanction it.
                  >
                  > Americans, as a group (and I am one) are incredibly
                  > ignorant of this
                  > region. Ask a few to place Slovakia on a map, or
                  > tell you what countries
                  > it is adjacent to. It's as bad as Sierra Leone.
                  >
                  > Bill
                  >
                  > On Thu, December 1, 2005 11:18 am, Jan Ammann said:
                  > > Hello..........well I guess I have learned
                  > something here......I have
                  > > always thought Hungary was Eastern Europe.....in
                  > fact, the friends I have
                  > > in Hungary do identify themselves as "Eastern
                  > Europe". So is this a wide
                  > > misconception??
                  > >
                  > > Bill......I am curious. I see you gave a website
                  > to back up the info.
                  > > However, how does one become expert enough to be
                  > able to identify
                  > > regions.......is this done by mapping or what.
                  > Would appreciate a
                  > > viewpoint from you and others on this.
                  > >
                  > > Cheers,
                  > > Aloysia (Jan)
                  > >
                  > > Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
                  > > According to http://www.tol.cz
                  > >
                  > > Central Europe is
                  > > czech republic estonia hungary
                  > latvia
                  > > lithuania poland slovakia
                  > slovenia
                  > >
                  > > Eastern Europe is
                  > > belarus moldova russia ukraine
                  > >
                  > > Seems reasonable to me.
                  > >
                  > > Bill Tarkulich
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > On Thu, December 1, 2005 9:23 am, amiak27 said:
                  > >> Yes, it seems that "Eastern Europe" was redefined
                  > for the cold war,
                  > >> but now that that war is past the old use of
                  > "Central Europe" is
                  > >> coming back.
                  > >>
                  > >> On the location of the center of Europe, I also
                  > visited one, but
                  > >> this one is 25 km (15 miles) due north of
                  > Vilnius, Lithuania. THat
                  > >> distinctly puts Slovakia in western central
                  > Europe. Our western
                  > >> bend to history includes geography. Most people
                  > report "the highest
                  > >> European mountain" in France, I believe, where it
                  > is really in the
                  > >> southern Ukraine/ Caucauses.
                  > >>
                  > >> Perhaps we should start to collect locations of
                  > all the
                  > >> different "centers of Europe" that various people
                  > have proclaimed.
                  > >>
                  > >> Ron
                  > >>
                  > >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joyce & Bill
                  > <bhewlett@v...>
                  > >> wrote:
                  > >>>
                  > >>> You are right in what you say. I think after
                  > WW2 and during the
                  > >> communist era, the American mind set was to
                  > divide Europe into the
                  > >> free West and the Communist East and the central
                  > didn't exist. Now
                  > >> that things have changed, unless one is
                  > interested in those
                  > >> countries, which are central, people still tend
                  > to think of them as
                  > >> Eastern Europe.
                  > >>> Joyce
                  > >>>
                  > >>> From: maureen <maureen@d...>
                  > >>> >Date: Wed Nov 30 23:34:56 CST 2005
                  > >>> >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > >>> >Subject: [S-R] Central Europe
                  > >>>
                  > >>> >Janet,
                  > >>> >On my most recent trip to Slovakia and Ukraine
                  > I was amazed to
                  > >> see the marker indicating the geographical center
                  > of Europe - it
                  > >> sits in the eastern part of Zakarpattia, Ukraine,
                  > just across the
                  > >> Tisa from Romania, almost to the town of Rahkiv.
                  > Now, when I hear
                  > >> anyone, on this list or others, refer to Slovakia
                  > and Ukraine
                  > >> as "Eastern Europe," the first thing I want to do
                  > is to write a
                  > >> reply to correct the misconception. But, I never
                  > do it.
                  > >>> >
                  > >>> >You have given me the opportunity to send a
                  > positive note on this
                  > >> topic, because you correctly identify the places
                  > of origin as
                  > >> Central Europe. Thank you!
                  > >>> >
                  > >>> >Maureen Pulignano
                  > >>> >www.deefalt.com
                  > >>> >
                  > >>> >
                  > >>> >
                  > >>> > >
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  > >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                  > -or- send blank email to
                  > >> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > Bill Tarkulich
                  > > http://www.iabsi.com
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                  > -or- send blank email to
                  > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > SPONSORED LINKS
                  > > American family home insurance American family
                  > home insurance company
                  > > American family home owner insurance Multi family
                  > home for sale Single
                  > > family home for sale Family home finance
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                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Visit your group "SLOVAK-ROOTS" on the web.
                  > >
                  > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                  > to:
                  > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > >
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                  > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ---------------------------------
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                  > -or- send blank email to
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                  > >
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                  >
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                • Jan Ammann
                  Hello John........Thank you very much for your thoughtful and very worthy reply on this subject. Your explanation of the life of Cr, S, and H really hits the
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hello John........Thank you very much for your thoughtful and very worthy reply on this subject. Your explanation of the life of Cr, S, and H really hits the nail on the head for me. I have family in Hungary........and write very often for the last two years with two brothers........one who has remained in Hungary with an excellent job and one who has moved on to a really great position in another country in what I guess we would call "regular Europe"..........smile...

                    The brother who has moved away now sees the restraint and the attitude of those back in Hungary as being more backward. I can tell by his words that he enjoys this new "mind freedom" (for want of a better word) and although he hopes to move back one day, he feels a "new life" has come to him and his family....a new way of thinking.

                    The brother who is in Hungary is very nice and a hard worker but probably more set in his ways than his brother. As you indicated, he is very close to his parents. I do hear words like "the old ways" and when "the communists were here". So there is that mind set. However, he does look forward to a better life but I do see the differences between the two of them.

                    I do believe, however, that these nations, especially Hungary, are moving toward a better business community which will open up new worlds for all its people.....better salaries, etc. They are moving upward.......not at the "speed of sound" but more slowly.....but they are "moving" and that is the criteria I look at.

                    Again.......thank you for your words.................Jan


                    John Venham <jevenham@...> wrote:
                    Almost all recent scholarly works discuss the
                    difficulty of assigning a geographical label to this
                    region. Technically, Europe is not a distinct
                    continent, but rather a large peninsula on the western
                    part of the Eurasian landmass. As such, it is
                    impossible to draw a line to define the 'limit' of
                    Europe, let alone the 'eastern half' of it. The same
                    ambiguity arises in other dimensions, such as history,
                    politics, economics and society. Citizens in all of
                    the countries between Germany and Russia consider
                    themselves as naturally belonging to 'the West' and
                    all look down on the nations just to their east as
                    less developed and more backward.

                    Pjotr Wandycz, author of 'The Price of Freedom',
                    prefaces his book with an essay on this topic.

                    I've spent the best part of the past 5 years in the
                    Czech Rep, Slovakia and Hungary. I must agree that as
                    one proceeds eastward from Germany, there is an
                    obvious gradation downward in terms of economic
                    development. From brief visits to Germany and
                    Austria, my impression was that there is a better
                    business sense and smoother administration there than
                    here. Rules tend to make logical sense, and are
                    followed more willingly and consistently. Socially,
                    the family unit is very strong here in CR, S and H.
                    Small children are cared for by grandparents while the
                    parents work during the day; and often adult children
                    live at home up to the age of 30. While a positive
                    element of the culture, this sense of community
                    doesn't extend far beyond the family circle. In
                    addition, this entails a tremendous influence from the
                    distant past in terms of ways of thinking, problem
                    solving, work ethic, etc. The result is a society
                    that doesn't function very efficiently in the
                    collective. This social dynamics has a direct
                    influence on business development. The communist era
                    is often cited, and justifiably, as the blame for much
                    of the current condition here, but it is my opinion
                    that the cultural influence from the past provides a
                    necessary supplemental explanation. Rather than these
                    societies waking up from the communist hang-over and
                    getting back to 'normal' (was the period 1918-1939
                    normal?), I feel they finally are on an open road to
                    develop their potential more naturally. It remains to
                    be seen, if this will match that acheived in the West,
                    or even surpass it. And this aspect should carry more
                    weight in the determination of east, west or central
                    designations than rivers or mountain ranges. Right
                    now, I'm living in eastern Europe. Perhaps when I
                    retire, I'll be returning to simply visit 'Europe.'

                    John Venham


                    --- Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:

                    > Jan,
                    >
                    > As you can see, it all depends on your point of
                    > view. There is no
                    > "official definition."
                    >
                    > I cited the URL to give you the source of this, not
                    > to sanction it.
                    >
                    > Americans, as a group (and I am one) are incredibly
                    > ignorant of this
                    > region. Ask a few to place Slovakia on a map, or
                    > tell you what countries
                    > it is adjacent to. It's as bad as Sierra Leone.
                    >
                    > Bill
                    >
                    > On Thu, December 1, 2005 11:18 am, Jan Ammann said:
                    > > Hello..........well I guess I have learned
                    > something here......I have
                    > > always thought Hungary was Eastern Europe.....in
                    > fact, the friends I have
                    > > in Hungary do identify themselves as "Eastern
                    > Europe". So is this a wide
                    > > misconception??
                    > >
                    > > Bill......I am curious. I see you gave a website
                    > to back up the info.
                    > > However, how does one become expert enough to be
                    > able to identify
                    > > regions.......is this done by mapping or what.
                    > Would appreciate a
                    > > viewpoint from you and others on this.
                    > >
                    > > Cheers,
                    > > Aloysia (Jan)
                    > >
                    > > Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
                    > > According to http://www.tol.cz
                    > >
                    > > Central Europe is
                    > > czech republic estonia hungary
                    > latvia
                    > > lithuania poland slovakia
                    > slovenia
                    > >
                    > > Eastern Europe is
                    > > belarus moldova russia ukraine
                    > >
                    > > Seems reasonable to me.
                    > >
                    > > Bill Tarkulich
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > On Thu, December 1, 2005 9:23 am, amiak27 said:
                    > >> Yes, it seems that "Eastern Europe" was redefined
                    > for the cold war,
                    > >> but now that that war is past the old use of
                    > "Central Europe" is
                    > >> coming back.
                    > >>
                    > >> On the location of the center of Europe, I also
                    > visited one, but
                    > >> this one is 25 km (15 miles) due north of
                    > Vilnius, Lithuania. THat
                    > >> distinctly puts Slovakia in western central
                    > Europe. Our western
                    > >> bend to history includes geography. Most people
                    > report "the highest
                    > >> European mountain" in France, I believe, where it
                    > is really in the
                    > >> southern Ukraine/ Caucauses.
                    > >>
                    > >> Perhaps we should start to collect locations of
                    > all the
                    > >> different "centers of Europe" that various people
                    > have proclaimed.
                    > >>
                    > >> Ron
                    > >>
                    > >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joyce & Bill
                    > <bhewlett@v...>
                    > >> wrote:
                    > >>>
                    > >>> You are right in what you say. I think after
                    > WW2 and during the
                    > >> communist era, the American mind set was to
                    > divide Europe into the
                    > >> free West and the Communist East and the central
                    > didn't exist. Now
                    > >> that things have changed, unless one is
                    > interested in those
                    > >> countries, which are central, people still tend
                    > to think of them as
                    > >> Eastern Europe.
                    > >>> Joyce
                    > >>>
                    > >>> From: maureen <maureen@d...>
                    > >>> >Date: Wed Nov 30 23:34:56 CST 2005
                    > >>> >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > >>> >Subject: [S-R] Central Europe
                    > >>>
                    > >>> >Janet,
                    > >>> >On my most recent trip to Slovakia and Ukraine
                    > I was amazed to
                    > >> see the marker indicating the geographical center
                    > of Europe - it
                    > >> sits in the eastern part of Zakarpattia, Ukraine,
                    > just across the
                    > >> Tisa from Romania, almost to the town of Rahkiv.
                    > Now, when I hear
                    > >> anyone, on this list or others, refer to Slovakia
                    > and Ukraine
                    > >> as "Eastern Europe," the first thing I want to do
                    > is to write a
                    > >> reply to correct the misconception. But, I never
                    > do it.
                    > >>> >
                    > >>> >You have given me the opportunity to send a
                    > positive note on this
                    > >> topic, because you correctly identify the places
                    > of origin as
                    > >> Central Europe. Thank you!
                    > >>> >
                    > >>> >Maureen Pulignano
                    > >>> >www.deefalt.com
                    > >>> >
                    > >>> >
                    > >>> >
                    > >>> > >
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    > >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                    > -or- send blank email to
                    > >> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > Bill Tarkulich
                    > > http://www.iabsi.com
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                    > -or- send blank email to
                    > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > SPONSORED LINKS
                    > > American family home insurance American family
                    > home insurance company
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                    > > family home for sale Family home finance
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                    > > ---------------------------------
                    > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Visit your group "SLOVAK-ROOTS" on the web.
                    > >
                    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                    > to:
                    > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                    > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ---------------------------------
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                    > removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                    > -or- send blank email to
                    > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
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                  • amiak27
                    Jan, You have had some good answers and different perspectives. I am surprised the source Bill named did not include Germany in Central Europe. Certainly the
                    Message 9 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Jan,

                      You have had some good answers and different perspectives. I am
                      surprised the source Bill named did not include Germany in Central
                      Europe. Certainly the Germans consider themselves so, and back
                      around 1914 so did we - Germany & Austria-Hungary were "the Central
                      Powers".

                      There is a desire for people of Europe to identify with the west,
                      and the Lithuanians were quite happy that some Scandinavian
                      geographer located the center of Europe so close to Vilnius.

                      Traditionally I read that Europe ends at the Ural Mountains, but in
                      looking at a topographic map of the Eurasian continent, the line is
                      not so terribly obvious. I also suspect that Europe would never
                      have been declared a continent if the concept had not been invented
                      there.

                      Getting into the sociology and business practices of the countries
                      is a whole new ball of wax. I lived in Germany for 9 of my 10 years
                      in Europe, and their social and business practices are quite
                      different from ours, but happily also compatible. I suspect the new
                      members of the EU will quickly adapt, but wonder if Russia will be
                      able to make the radical change in the next 50 years. It is a great
                      gap that separates us.

                      Let's toast to the death of the Cold War! Too bad it did not die 50
                      years earlier; we could have enjoyed our history and families that
                      much sooner!


                      Ron

                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jan Ammann <janammann@s...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello..........well I guess I have learned something here......I
                      have always thought Hungary was Eastern Europe.....in fact, the
                      friends I have in Hungary do identify themselves as "Eastern
                      Europe". So is this a wide misconception??
                      >
                      > Bill......I am curious. I see you gave a website to back up the
                      info. However, how does one become expert enough to be able to
                      identify regions.......is this done by mapping or what. Would
                      appreciate a viewpoint from you and others on this.
                      >
                      > Cheers,
                      > Aloysia (Jan)
                      >
                      > Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@i...> wrote:
                      > According to http://www.tol.cz
                      >
                      > Central Europe is
                      > czech republic estonia hungary latvia
                      > lithuania poland slovakia slovenia
                      >
                      > Eastern Europe is
                      > belarus moldova russia ukraine
                      >
                      > Seems reasonable to me.
                      >
                      > Bill Tarkulich
                      >
                      >
                      > On Thu, December 1, 2005 9:23 am, amiak27 said:
                      > > Yes, it seems that "Eastern Europe" was redefined for the cold
                      war,
                      > > but now that that war is past the old use of "Central Europe" is
                      > > coming back.
                      > >
                      > > On the location of the center of Europe, I also visited one, but
                      > > this one is 25 km (15 miles) due north of Vilnius, Lithuania.
                      THat
                      > > distinctly puts Slovakia in western central Europe. Our western
                      > > bend to history includes geography. Most people report "the
                      highest
                      > > European mountain" in France, I believe, where it is really in
                      the
                      > > southern Ukraine/ Caucauses.
                      > >
                      > > Perhaps we should start to collect locations of all the
                      > > different "centers of Europe" that various people have
                      proclaimed.
                      > >
                      > > Ron
                      > >
                      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joyce & Bill <bhewlett@v...>
                      > > wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >> You are right in what you say. I think after WW2 and during the
                      > > communist era, the American mind set was to divide Europe into
                      the
                      > > free West and the Communist East and the central didn't exist.
                      Now
                      > > that things have changed, unless one is interested in those
                      > > countries, which are central, people still tend to think of them
                      as
                      > > Eastern Europe.
                      > >> Joyce
                      > >>
                      > >> From: maureen <maureen@d...>
                      > >> >Date: Wed Nov 30 23:34:56 CST 2005
                      > >> >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > >> >Subject: [S-R] Central Europe
                      > >>
                      > >> >Janet,
                      > >> >On my most recent trip to Slovakia and Ukraine I was amazed to
                      > > see the marker indicating the geographical center of Europe - it
                      > > sits in the eastern part of Zakarpattia, Ukraine, just across the
                      > > Tisa from Romania, almost to the town of Rahkiv. Now, when I hear
                      > > anyone, on this list or others, refer to Slovakia and Ukraine
                      > > as "Eastern Europe," the first thing I want to do is to write a
                      > > reply to correct the misconception. But, I never do it.
                      > >> >
                      > >> >You have given me the opportunity to send a positive note on
                      this
                      > > topic, because you correctly identify the places of origin as
                      > > Central Europe. Thank you!
                      > >> >
                      > >> >Maureen Pulignano
                      > >> >www.deefalt.com
                      > >> >
                      > >> >
                      > >> >
                      > >> > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                      > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
                      email to
                      > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > Bill Tarkulich
                      > http://www.iabsi.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
                      email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
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