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Re: [S-R] Bohok translation or reference

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  • Vladimir Bohinc
    Dear Janet, I don t remeber. It can be. If he thinks this is important he can research and follow the Bohok line if there is any. This is all what I can say to
    Message 1 of 17 , Nov 29, 2005
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      Dear Janet,
      I don't remeber. It can be.
      If he thinks this is important he can research and follow the Bohok line if
      there is any. This is all what I can say to that.
      I haven't seen the document myself.
      Vladimir

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...>
      To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 2:32 PM
      Subject: RE: [S-R] Bohok translation or reference


      I agree with everything you say. But did not Carl say this was a "military
      passport" rather than church records?

      Janet

      -----Original Message-----
      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Vladimir Bohinc
      Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 8:10 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Bohok translation or reference

      Janet, your name transition is unusual and therefore can not be applied to
      other Jenos.
      Re Bohok, this does not seem to ever have evolved into a real surname. Not
      in the phone book and neither in my surname collection.
      It is just a simple alias as many others.
      As far as I know, nicknames were not included in military records.
      The priest, who wrote down the nicknames was closed to and more intimate
      with the families . Therefore he may have written that. Also for his own
      orientation, if there were several with the same name there. The authority
      always operated with names, birth dates, places of birth and maybe father's
      name.
      Although an alias can be very helpful in genealogical research, it's general

      importance is sometimes overestimated.
      Also a translation of a surname is something without much sense. Where we,
      Slovaks, would have come, if we would translate american surnames? Most
      american surnames sound so respectful, but an Betka Krajcirova would be
      simply laughable. The same with Juraj Krik.
      I wonder, who will laugh first here :-)
      Vladimir


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...>
      To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 12:14 PM
      Subject: RE: [S-R] Bohok translation or reference


      Carl did not indicate what language the military record was written in. My
      example was obviously Hungarian. In that case he was born with the name
      János but changed his name to Jenő. We are not yet certain where Ödön came
      from. It is perhaps on his birth registration, which we have yet to locate.

      Do you have an opinion on Bohók as a name? Have you ever seen this either as
      a first name or as a family name, in either Slovakian or Hungarian? I would
      not think that a military record would include a nickname. I would guess
      that if you were called "White" by your friends in the army, it would still
      not be used on an official document.

      Janet


      -----Original Message-----
      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Vladimir Bohinc
      Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:56 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Need translation or reference

      A hungarian Jeno is slovak Eugen and is not equal to Janos, which is Jan.
      Vladimir

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...>
      To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 4:29 AM
      Subject: RE: [S-R] Need translation or reference


      From your description it sounds like it was an alternative first name. The
      military record for the person I am researching lists "Jenő (János, Ödön),"
      which were other names by which he was known.

      The Hungarian word bohóc means clown or fool, but I wouldn't dare to guess
      if this word is related.

      Janet


      -----Original Message-----
      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Carl Kotlarchik
      Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 3:07 PM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [S-R] Need translation or reference

      I have come across a strange word in a 1896 military passport document
      for which I cannot find a reference. Does anyone know what the term
      "Bohok" might mean? The word is in parenthesis between the first and
      last names of the individual. There is an accent mark on the
      second "o". Perhaps it was a nickname? It is used everytime the
      individual's name appears in the document but I have not found the
      term in any of the other records for this individual. I also have not
      been able to find the term in either a Hungarian or a Slovak
      dictionary.

      Carl Kotlarchik






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    • rabbit
      I suspect that Bohok may indicate Bohemian. Just a guess. I am thinking of the euphemism Bohunk when I say this. I expect those with more knowledge than I
      Message 2 of 17 , Nov 29, 2005
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        I suspect that Bohok may indicate Bohemian. Just a guess. I am thinking of
        the euphemism "Bohunk" when I say this. I expect those with more knowledge
        than I will properly respond to this guess. By the way, my wife's people
        were sometimes said to be Bohemians.

        Jim Crownover-.
      • Janet Kozlay
        I have been intrigued by the derogatory (not euphemistic) term Bohunk, referring to immigrants from Central Europe. Most authorities suggest it is a
        Message 3 of 17 , Nov 29, 2005
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          I have been intrigued by the derogatory (not euphemistic) term "Bohunk,"
          referring to immigrants from Central Europe. Most "authorities" suggest it
          is a combined term referring to Bohemians and Hungarians. I think there is
          another explanation that they don't consider, and that is that the term may
          have come from Bohunka, which is a perfectly good family name found in
          Slovakia and (especially) Czech Republic. The term has bothered me because
          it doesn't seem quite natural geographically to lump together Bohemians and
          Hungarians, even for ignorant Americans.

          Janet
        • Michael Mojher
          Most online dictionaries give the same definition and derivation for Bohunk. Below is are sightings by historians on the use of the word. The major pejorative
          Message 4 of 17 , Nov 29, 2005
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            Most online dictionaries give the same definition and derivation for Bohunk. Below is are sightings by historians on the use of the word.

            The major pejorative label for Slavic immigrants, including Serbs, was "hunky" (pl. hunkies). This term emanated from a combination of Bohemian and Hungarian-Bohunk-and first appeared in print in the early 1900s. Idiomatic usage shortened Bohunk to hunky. While hunky's derivation came from a term for Czech and Hungarian immigrants, Anglo-- Americans used it as a blanket term for all Slavic immigrants. Immigration historian Victor Greene stated that Anglo-Americans considered hunkies to be backward and unable to function in a democratic society such as the United States. David Roediger and James R. Barrett claim that Anglo-- Americans linked the word hunky "with perceived immigrant racial characteristics." Historian Josephine Wtulich believed that the term hunky presented the Slavs as "docile, subservient, conservative, traditional, dull, naive, primitive[, and] clannish.
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Janet Kozlay
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 6:47 PM
            Subject: RE: [S-R] Bohok and Bohunk



            I have been intrigued by the derogatory (not euphemistic) term "Bohunk,"
            referring to immigrants from Central Europe. Most "authorities" suggest it
            is a combined term referring to Bohemians and Hungarians. I think there is
            another explanation that they don't consider, and that is that the term may
            have come from Bohunka, which is a perfectly good family name found in
            Slovakia and (especially) Czech Republic. The term has bothered me because
            it doesn't seem quite natural geographically to lump together Bohemians and
            Hungarians, even for ignorant Americans.

            Janet





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          • krisstrot@aol.com
            ... From: Janet Kozlay To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:47:55 -0500 Subject: RE: [S-R] Bohok and Bohunk I have
            Message 5 of 17 , Nov 30, 2005
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              -----Original Message-----
              From: Janet Kozlay <kozlay@...>
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:47:55 -0500
              Subject: RE: [S-R] Bohok and Bohunk



              I have been intrigued by the derogatory (not euphemistic) term "Bohunk,"
              referring to immigrants from Central Europe. Most "authorities" suggest it
              is a combined term referring to Bohemians and Hungarians. I think there is
              another explanation that they don't consider, and that is that the term may
              have come from Bohunka, which is a perfectly good family name found in
              Slovakia and (especially) Czech Republic. The term has bothered me because
              it doesn't seem quite natural geographically to lump together Bohemians and
              Hungarians, even for ignorant Americans.

              Janet






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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • voony
              Who ever said Bohunk was a derogatory word? and who cares where it was derived from? I suggest you drop it and get a life, leave this research group to what
              Message 6 of 17 , Nov 30, 2005
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                Who ever said "Bohunk" was a derogatory word? and who
                cares where it was derived from? I suggest you drop it
                and get a life, leave this research group to what they
                do best "research" and not bother them with personal
                problems

                --- krisstrot@... wrote:


                ---------------------------------


                -----Original Message-----
                From: Janet Kozlay <kozlay@...>
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:47:55 -0500
                Subject: RE: [S-R] Bohok and Bohunk



                I have been intrigued by the derogatory (not
                euphemistic) term "Bohunk,"
                referring to immigrants from Central Europe. Most
                "authorities" suggest it
                is a combined term referring to Bohemians and
                Hungarians. I think there is
                another explanation that they don't consider, and that
                is that the term may
                have come from Bohunka, which is a perfectly good
                family name found in
                Slovakia and (especially) Czech Republic. The term has
                bothered me because
                it doesn't seem quite natural geographically to lump
                together Bohemians and
                Hungarians, even for ignorant Americans.

                Janet






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              • nhasior@aol.com
                Not to be combative but Bohunk was very much legitimately part of the discussion only because the word Bohok was inserted into an ancestor s military records
                Message 7 of 17 , Nov 30, 2005
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                  Not to be combative but Bohunk was very much legitimately part of the
                  discussion only because the word Bohok was inserted into an ancestor's military
                  records as part of his name and the person researching the document asked for
                  advice on its meaning. i decided to put Bohok into the Google.com search engine
                  and it seems that the websites related to that word are Hungarian. someone who
                  can read Hungarian may be able to decide what they are talking about but i
                  think that it means hair or head or something along that line.


                  In a message dated 11/30/05 7:30:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                  voony@... writes:

                  > Who ever said "Bohunk" was a derogatory word? and who
                  > cares where it was derived from? I suggest you drop it
                  > and get a life, leave this research group to what they
                  > do best "research" and not bother them with personal
                  > problems
                  >
                  > --- krisstrot@... wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • amiak27
                  I enjoy finding word relationships as much as anyone and have demonstrated that I will jump to a conclusion as well, but in the end that all demands backup
                  Message 8 of 17 , Nov 30, 2005
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                    I enjoy finding word relationships as much as anyone and have
                    demonstrated that I will jump to a conclusion as well, but in the
                    end that all demands backup when you are working genealogy.

                    Caution is a good thing to practice with word similarities, or you
                    can quickly deduct that Germans are descended from Germs.

                    Ron


                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, nhasior@a... wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Not to be combative but Bohunk was very much legitimately part of
                    the
                    > discussion only because the word Bohok was inserted into an
                    ancestor's military
                    > records as part of his name and the person researching the
                    document asked for
                    > advice on its meaning. i decided to put Bohok into the Google.com
                    search engine
                    > and it seems that the websites related to that word are
                    Hungarian. someone who
                    > can read Hungarian may be able to decide what they are talking
                    about but i
                    > think that it means hair or head or something along that line.
                    >
                    >
                    > In a message dated 11/30/05 7:30:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                    > voony@s... writes:
                    >
                    > > Who ever said "Bohunk" was a derogatory word? and who
                    > > cares where it was derived from? I suggest you drop it
                    > > and get a life, leave this research group to what they
                    > > do best "research" and not bother them with personal
                    > > problems
                    > >
                    > > --- krisstrot@a... wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • christopher gajda
                    I have to agree that language and other off-topic subjects are legitimately part of a genealogy site. Unless genealogy offers insite into language, history,
                    Message 9 of 17 , Dec 1, 2005
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                      I have to agree that language and other "off-topic" subjects are legitimately part of a genealogy site. Unless genealogy offers insite into language, history, culture, religion, politics, art, etc, it has no value. All it is is a list of "begats"

                      nhasior@... wrote:
                      Not to be combative but Bohunk was very much legitimately part of the
                      discussion only because the word Bohok was inserted into an ancestor's military
                      records as part of his name and the person researching the document asked for
                      advice on its meaning. i decided to put Bohok into the Google.com search engine
                      and it seems that the websites related to that word are Hungarian. someone who
                      can read Hungarian may be able to decide what they are talking about but i
                      think that it means hair or head or something along that line.


                      In a message dated 11/30/05 7:30:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                      voony@... writes:

                      > Who ever said "Bohunk" was a derogatory word? and who
                      > cares where it was derived from? I suggest you drop it
                      > and get a life, leave this research group to what they
                      > do best "research" and not bother them with personal
                      > problems
                      >
                      > --- krisstrot@... wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                    • Vladimir Bohinc
                      The best and the only way to find out what the possible meaning of this nickname could have been would be to ask the people from the location where it was
                      Message 10 of 17 , Dec 1, 2005
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                        The best and the only way to find out what the possible meaning of this nickname could have been would be to ask the people from the location where it was given. There is absolutely no way in seeing any connection between a nickname of a person here and a general nickname to a group of people which was given to them in US. This creates only confusion.
                        I did not find such a word in my slovak vocabulary.
                        There are two words in hungarian which are close:
                        Boho = foolish, naive, preposterous,mad, insane,frolicsome, tarky
                        Bohoc = clown, fool, buffoon
                        Vladimir

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: christopher gajda
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 3:56 PM
                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Bohok and Bohunk


                        I have to agree that language and other "off-topic" subjects are legitimately part of a genealogy site. Unless genealogy offers insite into language, history, culture, religion, politics, art, etc, it has no value. All it is is a list of "begats"

                        nhasior@... wrote:
                        Not to be combative but Bohunk was very much legitimately part of the
                        discussion only because the word Bohok was inserted into an ancestor's military
                        records as part of his name and the person researching the document asked for
                        advice on its meaning. i decided to put Bohok into the Google.com search engine
                        and it seems that the websites related to that word are Hungarian. someone who
                        can read Hungarian may be able to decide what they are talking about but i
                        think that it means hair or head or something along that line.


                        In a message dated 11/30/05 7:30:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                        voony@... writes:

                        > Who ever said "Bohunk" was a derogatory word? and who
                        > cares where it was derived from? I suggest you drop it
                        > and get a life, leave this research group to what they
                        > do best "research" and not bother them with personal
                        > problems
                        >
                        > --- krisstrot@... wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >



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