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Re: [S-R] Bohok translation or reference

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  • Vladimir Bohinc
    Janet, your name transition is unusual and therefore can not be applied to other Jenos. Re Bohok, this does not seem to ever have evolved into a real surname.
    Message 1 of 17 , Nov 29, 2005
      Janet, your name transition is unusual and therefore can not be applied to
      other Jenos.
      Re Bohok, this does not seem to ever have evolved into a real surname. Not
      in the phone book and neither in my surname collection.
      It is just a simple alias as many others.
      As far as I know, nicknames were not included in military records.
      The priest, who wrote down the nicknames was closed to and more intimate
      with the families . Therefore he may have written that. Also for his own
      orientation, if there were several with the same name there. The authority
      always operated with names, birth dates, places of birth and maybe father's
      name.
      Although an alias can be very helpful in genealogical research, it's general
      importance is sometimes overestimated.
      Also a translation of a surname is something without much sense. Where we,
      Slovaks, would have come, if we would translate american surnames? Most
      american surnames sound so respectful, but an Betka Krajcirova would be
      simply laughable. The same with Juraj Krik.
      I wonder, who will laugh first here :-)
      Vladimir


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...>
      To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 12:14 PM
      Subject: RE: [S-R] Bohok translation or reference


      Carl did not indicate what language the military record was written in. My
      example was obviously Hungarian. In that case he was born with the name
      János but changed his name to Jenő. We are not yet certain where Ödön came
      from. It is perhaps on his birth registration, which we have yet to locate.

      Do you have an opinion on Bohók as a name? Have you ever seen this either as
      a first name or as a family name, in either Slovakian or Hungarian? I would
      not think that a military record would include a nickname. I would guess
      that if you were called "White" by your friends in the army, it would still
      not be used on an official document.

      Janet


      -----Original Message-----
      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Vladimir Bohinc
      Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:56 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Need translation or reference

      A hungarian Jeno is slovak Eugen and is not equal to Janos, which is Jan.
      Vladimir

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...>
      To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 4:29 AM
      Subject: RE: [S-R] Need translation or reference


      From your description it sounds like it was an alternative first name. The
      military record for the person I am researching lists "Jenő (János, Ödön),"
      which were other names by which he was known.

      The Hungarian word bohóc means clown or fool, but I wouldn't dare to guess
      if this word is related.

      Janet


      -----Original Message-----
      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Carl Kotlarchik
      Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 3:07 PM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [S-R] Need translation or reference

      I have come across a strange word in a 1896 military passport document
      for which I cannot find a reference. Does anyone know what the term
      "Bohok" might mean? The word is in parenthesis between the first and
      last names of the individual. There is an accent mark on the
      second "o". Perhaps it was a nickname? It is used everytime the
      individual's name appears in the document but I have not found the
      term in any of the other records for this individual. I also have not
      been able to find the term in either a Hungarian or a Slovak
      dictionary.

      Carl Kotlarchik






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    • Janet Kozlay
      I agree with everything you say. But did not Carl say this was a military passport rather than church records? Janet ... From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 17 , Nov 29, 2005
        I agree with everything you say. But did not Carl say this was a "military
        passport" rather than church records?

        Janet

        -----Original Message-----
        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Vladimir Bohinc
        Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 8:10 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Bohok translation or reference

        Janet, your name transition is unusual and therefore can not be applied to
        other Jenos.
        Re Bohok, this does not seem to ever have evolved into a real surname. Not
        in the phone book and neither in my surname collection.
        It is just a simple alias as many others.
        As far as I know, nicknames were not included in military records.
        The priest, who wrote down the nicknames was closed to and more intimate
        with the families . Therefore he may have written that. Also for his own
        orientation, if there were several with the same name there. The authority
        always operated with names, birth dates, places of birth and maybe father's
        name.
        Although an alias can be very helpful in genealogical research, it's general

        importance is sometimes overestimated.
        Also a translation of a surname is something without much sense. Where we,
        Slovaks, would have come, if we would translate american surnames? Most
        american surnames sound so respectful, but an Betka Krajcirova would be
        simply laughable. The same with Juraj Krik.
        I wonder, who will laugh first here :-)
        Vladimir


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...>
        To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 12:14 PM
        Subject: RE: [S-R] Bohok translation or reference


        Carl did not indicate what language the military record was written in. My
        example was obviously Hungarian. In that case he was born with the name
        János but changed his name to Jenő. We are not yet certain where Ödön came
        from. It is perhaps on his birth registration, which we have yet to locate.

        Do you have an opinion on Bohók as a name? Have you ever seen this either as
        a first name or as a family name, in either Slovakian or Hungarian? I would
        not think that a military record would include a nickname. I would guess
        that if you were called "White" by your friends in the army, it would still
        not be used on an official document.

        Janet


        -----Original Message-----
        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Vladimir Bohinc
        Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:56 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Need translation or reference

        A hungarian Jeno is slovak Eugen and is not equal to Janos, which is Jan.
        Vladimir

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...>
        To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 4:29 AM
        Subject: RE: [S-R] Need translation or reference


        From your description it sounds like it was an alternative first name. The
        military record for the person I am researching lists "Jenő (János, Ödön),"
        which were other names by which he was known.

        The Hungarian word bohóc means clown or fool, but I wouldn't dare to guess
        if this word is related.

        Janet


        -----Original Message-----
        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Carl Kotlarchik
        Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 3:07 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [S-R] Need translation or reference

        I have come across a strange word in a 1896 military passport document
        for which I cannot find a reference. Does anyone know what the term
        "Bohok" might mean? The word is in parenthesis between the first and
        last names of the individual. There is an accent mark on the
        second "o". Perhaps it was a nickname? It is used everytime the
        individual's name appears in the document but I have not found the
        term in any of the other records for this individual. I also have not
        been able to find the term in either a Hungarian or a Slovak
        dictionary.

        Carl Kotlarchik






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        Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
        http://www.eset.sk





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        Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
        http://www.eset.sk





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      • Vladimir Bohinc
        Dear Janet, I don t remeber. It can be. If he thinks this is important he can research and follow the Bohok line if there is any. This is all what I can say to
        Message 3 of 17 , Nov 29, 2005
          Dear Janet,
          I don't remeber. It can be.
          If he thinks this is important he can research and follow the Bohok line if
          there is any. This is all what I can say to that.
          I haven't seen the document myself.
          Vladimir

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...>
          To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 2:32 PM
          Subject: RE: [S-R] Bohok translation or reference


          I agree with everything you say. But did not Carl say this was a "military
          passport" rather than church records?

          Janet

          -----Original Message-----
          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Vladimir Bohinc
          Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 8:10 AM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] Bohok translation or reference

          Janet, your name transition is unusual and therefore can not be applied to
          other Jenos.
          Re Bohok, this does not seem to ever have evolved into a real surname. Not
          in the phone book and neither in my surname collection.
          It is just a simple alias as many others.
          As far as I know, nicknames were not included in military records.
          The priest, who wrote down the nicknames was closed to and more intimate
          with the families . Therefore he may have written that. Also for his own
          orientation, if there were several with the same name there. The authority
          always operated with names, birth dates, places of birth and maybe father's
          name.
          Although an alias can be very helpful in genealogical research, it's general

          importance is sometimes overestimated.
          Also a translation of a surname is something without much sense. Where we,
          Slovaks, would have come, if we would translate american surnames? Most
          american surnames sound so respectful, but an Betka Krajcirova would be
          simply laughable. The same with Juraj Krik.
          I wonder, who will laugh first here :-)
          Vladimir


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...>
          To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 12:14 PM
          Subject: RE: [S-R] Bohok translation or reference


          Carl did not indicate what language the military record was written in. My
          example was obviously Hungarian. In that case he was born with the name
          János but changed his name to Jenő. We are not yet certain where Ödön came
          from. It is perhaps on his birth registration, which we have yet to locate.

          Do you have an opinion on Bohók as a name? Have you ever seen this either as
          a first name or as a family name, in either Slovakian or Hungarian? I would
          not think that a military record would include a nickname. I would guess
          that if you were called "White" by your friends in the army, it would still
          not be used on an official document.

          Janet


          -----Original Message-----
          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Vladimir Bohinc
          Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:56 AM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] Need translation or reference

          A hungarian Jeno is slovak Eugen and is not equal to Janos, which is Jan.
          Vladimir

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...>
          To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 4:29 AM
          Subject: RE: [S-R] Need translation or reference


          From your description it sounds like it was an alternative first name. The
          military record for the person I am researching lists "Jenő (János, Ödön),"
          which were other names by which he was known.

          The Hungarian word bohóc means clown or fool, but I wouldn't dare to guess
          if this word is related.

          Janet


          -----Original Message-----
          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Carl Kotlarchik
          Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 3:07 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [S-R] Need translation or reference

          I have come across a strange word in a 1896 military passport document
          for which I cannot find a reference. Does anyone know what the term
          "Bohok" might mean? The word is in parenthesis between the first and
          last names of the individual. There is an accent mark on the
          second "o". Perhaps it was a nickname? It is used everytime the
          individual's name appears in the document but I have not found the
          term in any of the other records for this individual. I also have not
          been able to find the term in either a Hungarian or a Slovak
          dictionary.

          Carl Kotlarchik






          To unsubscribe from this group, go to
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          http://www.eset.sk





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        • rabbit
          I suspect that Bohok may indicate Bohemian. Just a guess. I am thinking of the euphemism Bohunk when I say this. I expect those with more knowledge than I
          Message 4 of 17 , Nov 29, 2005
            I suspect that Bohok may indicate Bohemian. Just a guess. I am thinking of
            the euphemism "Bohunk" when I say this. I expect those with more knowledge
            than I will properly respond to this guess. By the way, my wife's people
            were sometimes said to be Bohemians.

            Jim Crownover-.
          • Janet Kozlay
            I have been intrigued by the derogatory (not euphemistic) term Bohunk, referring to immigrants from Central Europe. Most authorities suggest it is a
            Message 5 of 17 , Nov 29, 2005
              I have been intrigued by the derogatory (not euphemistic) term "Bohunk,"
              referring to immigrants from Central Europe. Most "authorities" suggest it
              is a combined term referring to Bohemians and Hungarians. I think there is
              another explanation that they don't consider, and that is that the term may
              have come from Bohunka, which is a perfectly good family name found in
              Slovakia and (especially) Czech Republic. The term has bothered me because
              it doesn't seem quite natural geographically to lump together Bohemians and
              Hungarians, even for ignorant Americans.

              Janet
            • Michael Mojher
              Most online dictionaries give the same definition and derivation for Bohunk. Below is are sightings by historians on the use of the word. The major pejorative
              Message 6 of 17 , Nov 29, 2005
                Most online dictionaries give the same definition and derivation for Bohunk. Below is are sightings by historians on the use of the word.

                The major pejorative label for Slavic immigrants, including Serbs, was "hunky" (pl. hunkies). This term emanated from a combination of Bohemian and Hungarian-Bohunk-and first appeared in print in the early 1900s. Idiomatic usage shortened Bohunk to hunky. While hunky's derivation came from a term for Czech and Hungarian immigrants, Anglo-- Americans used it as a blanket term for all Slavic immigrants. Immigration historian Victor Greene stated that Anglo-Americans considered hunkies to be backward and unable to function in a democratic society such as the United States. David Roediger and James R. Barrett claim that Anglo-- Americans linked the word hunky "with perceived immigrant racial characteristics." Historian Josephine Wtulich believed that the term hunky presented the Slavs as "docile, subservient, conservative, traditional, dull, naive, primitive[, and] clannish.
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Janet Kozlay
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 6:47 PM
                Subject: RE: [S-R] Bohok and Bohunk



                I have been intrigued by the derogatory (not euphemistic) term "Bohunk,"
                referring to immigrants from Central Europe. Most "authorities" suggest it
                is a combined term referring to Bohemians and Hungarians. I think there is
                another explanation that they don't consider, and that is that the term may
                have come from Bohunka, which is a perfectly good family name found in
                Slovakia and (especially) Czech Republic. The term has bothered me because
                it doesn't seem quite natural geographically to lump together Bohemians and
                Hungarians, even for ignorant Americans.

                Janet





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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • krisstrot@aol.com
                ... From: Janet Kozlay To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:47:55 -0500 Subject: RE: [S-R] Bohok and Bohunk I have
                Message 7 of 17 , Nov 30, 2005
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Janet Kozlay <kozlay@...>
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:47:55 -0500
                  Subject: RE: [S-R] Bohok and Bohunk



                  I have been intrigued by the derogatory (not euphemistic) term "Bohunk,"
                  referring to immigrants from Central Europe. Most "authorities" suggest it
                  is a combined term referring to Bohemians and Hungarians. I think there is
                  another explanation that they don't consider, and that is that the term may
                  have come from Bohunka, which is a perfectly good family name found in
                  Slovakia and (especially) Czech Republic. The term has bothered me because
                  it doesn't seem quite natural geographically to lump together Bohemians and
                  Hungarians, even for ignorant Americans.

                  Janet






                  To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                  -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  Yahoo! Groups Links






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • voony
                  Who ever said Bohunk was a derogatory word? and who cares where it was derived from? I suggest you drop it and get a life, leave this research group to what
                  Message 8 of 17 , Nov 30, 2005
                    Who ever said "Bohunk" was a derogatory word? and who
                    cares where it was derived from? I suggest you drop it
                    and get a life, leave this research group to what they
                    do best "research" and not bother them with personal
                    problems

                    --- krisstrot@... wrote:


                    ---------------------------------


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Janet Kozlay <kozlay@...>
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:47:55 -0500
                    Subject: RE: [S-R] Bohok and Bohunk



                    I have been intrigued by the derogatory (not
                    euphemistic) term "Bohunk,"
                    referring to immigrants from Central Europe. Most
                    "authorities" suggest it
                    is a combined term referring to Bohemians and
                    Hungarians. I think there is
                    another explanation that they don't consider, and that
                    is that the term may
                    have come from Bohunka, which is a perfectly good
                    family name found in
                    Slovakia and (especially) Czech Republic. The term has
                    bothered me because
                    it doesn't seem quite natural geographically to lump
                    together Bohemians and
                    Hungarians, even for ignorant Americans.

                    Janet






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                    http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                    -or- send blank email to
                    SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                    ---------------------------------
                  • nhasior@aol.com
                    Not to be combative but Bohunk was very much legitimately part of the discussion only because the word Bohok was inserted into an ancestor s military records
                    Message 9 of 17 , Nov 30, 2005
                      Not to be combative but Bohunk was very much legitimately part of the
                      discussion only because the word Bohok was inserted into an ancestor's military
                      records as part of his name and the person researching the document asked for
                      advice on its meaning. i decided to put Bohok into the Google.com search engine
                      and it seems that the websites related to that word are Hungarian. someone who
                      can read Hungarian may be able to decide what they are talking about but i
                      think that it means hair or head or something along that line.


                      In a message dated 11/30/05 7:30:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                      voony@... writes:

                      > Who ever said "Bohunk" was a derogatory word? and who
                      > cares where it was derived from? I suggest you drop it
                      > and get a life, leave this research group to what they
                      > do best "research" and not bother them with personal
                      > problems
                      >
                      > --- krisstrot@... wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • amiak27
                      I enjoy finding word relationships as much as anyone and have demonstrated that I will jump to a conclusion as well, but in the end that all demands backup
                      Message 10 of 17 , Nov 30, 2005
                        I enjoy finding word relationships as much as anyone and have
                        demonstrated that I will jump to a conclusion as well, but in the
                        end that all demands backup when you are working genealogy.

                        Caution is a good thing to practice with word similarities, or you
                        can quickly deduct that Germans are descended from Germs.

                        Ron


                        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, nhasior@a... wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Not to be combative but Bohunk was very much legitimately part of
                        the
                        > discussion only because the word Bohok was inserted into an
                        ancestor's military
                        > records as part of his name and the person researching the
                        document asked for
                        > advice on its meaning. i decided to put Bohok into the Google.com
                        search engine
                        > and it seems that the websites related to that word are
                        Hungarian. someone who
                        > can read Hungarian may be able to decide what they are talking
                        about but i
                        > think that it means hair or head or something along that line.
                        >
                        >
                        > In a message dated 11/30/05 7:30:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                        > voony@s... writes:
                        >
                        > > Who ever said "Bohunk" was a derogatory word? and who
                        > > cares where it was derived from? I suggest you drop it
                        > > and get a life, leave this research group to what they
                        > > do best "research" and not bother them with personal
                        > > problems
                        > >
                        > > --- krisstrot@a... wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • christopher gajda
                        I have to agree that language and other off-topic subjects are legitimately part of a genealogy site. Unless genealogy offers insite into language, history,
                        Message 11 of 17 , Dec 1, 2005
                          I have to agree that language and other "off-topic" subjects are legitimately part of a genealogy site. Unless genealogy offers insite into language, history, culture, religion, politics, art, etc, it has no value. All it is is a list of "begats"

                          nhasior@... wrote:
                          Not to be combative but Bohunk was very much legitimately part of the
                          discussion only because the word Bohok was inserted into an ancestor's military
                          records as part of his name and the person researching the document asked for
                          advice on its meaning. i decided to put Bohok into the Google.com search engine
                          and it seems that the websites related to that word are Hungarian. someone who
                          can read Hungarian may be able to decide what they are talking about but i
                          think that it means hair or head or something along that line.


                          In a message dated 11/30/05 7:30:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                          voony@... writes:

                          > Who ever said "Bohunk" was a derogatory word? and who
                          > cares where it was derived from? I suggest you drop it
                          > and get a life, leave this research group to what they
                          > do best "research" and not bother them with personal
                          > problems
                          >
                          > --- krisstrot@... wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                        • Vladimir Bohinc
                          The best and the only way to find out what the possible meaning of this nickname could have been would be to ask the people from the location where it was
                          Message 12 of 17 , Dec 1, 2005
                            The best and the only way to find out what the possible meaning of this nickname could have been would be to ask the people from the location where it was given. There is absolutely no way in seeing any connection between a nickname of a person here and a general nickname to a group of people which was given to them in US. This creates only confusion.
                            I did not find such a word in my slovak vocabulary.
                            There are two words in hungarian which are close:
                            Boho = foolish, naive, preposterous,mad, insane,frolicsome, tarky
                            Bohoc = clown, fool, buffoon
                            Vladimir

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: christopher gajda
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 3:56 PM
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] Bohok and Bohunk


                            I have to agree that language and other "off-topic" subjects are legitimately part of a genealogy site. Unless genealogy offers insite into language, history, culture, religion, politics, art, etc, it has no value. All it is is a list of "begats"

                            nhasior@... wrote:
                            Not to be combative but Bohunk was very much legitimately part of the
                            discussion only because the word Bohok was inserted into an ancestor's military
                            records as part of his name and the person researching the document asked for
                            advice on its meaning. i decided to put Bohok into the Google.com search engine
                            and it seems that the websites related to that word are Hungarian. someone who
                            can read Hungarian may be able to decide what they are talking about but i
                            think that it means hair or head or something along that line.


                            In a message dated 11/30/05 7:30:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                            voony@... writes:

                            > Who ever said "Bohunk" was a derogatory word? and who
                            > cares where it was derived from? I suggest you drop it
                            > and get a life, leave this research group to what they
                            > do best "research" and not bother them with personal
                            > problems
                            >
                            > --- krisstrot@... wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >



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