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Re: [S-R] Slovak names

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  • Bill Tarkulich
    Hi Larry, Think of the forum (I m not the moderator) as a discussion. I suggest putting the names in captial letters on the subject line so they stand out.
    Message 1 of 1 , Oct 11, 2005
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      Hi Larry,

      Think of the forum (I'm not the moderator) as a discussion.

      I suggest putting the names in captial letters on the subject line so they
      stand out. However, I am unenthusiastic about this approach. Searching
      on a surname if frustrating and usually futile. Many people with the same
      surname are entirely unrelated and show up in unrelated villages. You
      waste a lot of peoples times, and/or you get no answers at all.

      I suggest you post what methods and work you have done so far (be brief in
      a paragraph or two - there will be time for followup Q&A). Always STATE
      YOUR OBJECTIVE - are you building a tree, looking to find cousins, or
      whatnot. Then state your question.

      I am innately frugal and get in trouble with the for-profits now and then.
      Have you been through my genealogy site? It could be called "genealogy
      for cheapskates".

      Good Luck,
      Bill


      > Bill
      > I'm not sure of how to use this forum....Can I post two surnames to see if
      > anyone recognizes them and might possibly have information on them. I have
      > exhausted all free internet avenues I could find. I am not comfortable
      > paying for a researcher, ,,,ironically, being frugal is part of my
      > heritage.
      > Larry Kocik
      > the names are; Kocik/Kocich and Gajdusek. The villiage of origin is
      > Gbely, formerly Egbel.
      > thank you very much -------------- Original message --------------
      > Thank you very much. This will help the research tremendously, as it adds
      > some opinion and position to the matter of discussion.
      >
      > ______________
      > Bill Tarkulich
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
      > On
      > Behalf Of Dr. Joe Q
      > Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 5:53 PM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: RE: [S-R] Brief Magyar (Hungary) Translation
      >
      > Dear Bill,
      >
      > I didn't know you wanted the whole thing, here it is:
      >
      > The abora is a building to store hay and grain that
      > has a movable roof supported on four poles. The people
      > adjusted the roof up and down depending upon the
      > quantity of stored hay. The roof was usually
      > pyramidal in shape but there were also a saddle shaped
      > roofs. It [the roof] was covered with wooden shingles,
      > sticks, or thatches. The roof of the abora (also
      > called a cap) is held in place with pins placed in the
      > holes of the upright poles. The pins were made of hard
      > wood or iron. The abora rarely had walls. It was a
      > characteristic building in Zemplén, Ung, Bereg,
      > Ugocsa, Máramaros, and Szatmár counties and was used
      > by Hungarian and Ukrainian peasants. It was used by
      > Romanians in Máramaros county and in Slovak Sáros
      > county. With few exceptions, it was unknown in other
      > areas of the Carpathian basin.
      >
      > széna és kevés gabona tárolására szolgáló építmény,
      > amelynek négy tartóoszlopon nyugvó, mozgatható fedele
      > van. A teto"t az aborában tárolt termény, takarmány
      > mennyiségéto"l függöo"en szokták feljebb emelni vagy
      > lejjebb csúsztatni. A teto" legtöbbször piramis,
      > ritkábban nyereg formájú; fazsindellyel, - dránicával
      > vagy zsúppal fedett. Az abora fedele (neve: sisak,
      > sapka) a tartóoszlopokba szabályos közönként fúrt
      > lyukakba illesztett keményfa vagy vascsapokon
      > nyugszik. Az aborának ritkán van fala. A történeti
      > Zemplén, Ung, Bereg, Ugocsa, Máramaros és Szatmár m.
      > magyar és ukrán parasztságának jellegzetes építménye.
      > Használják a máramarosi románok és a sárosi szlovákok
      > is. A Kárpát-medence egyéb tájain – néhány szórványos
      > megjelenését leszámítva – az abora ismeretlen.
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      >
      > There is an illustration of it in a 14 century Czech
      > bible, in the 15 century there is a drawing of one in
      > [unspecified] English writing. In the new ages [after
      > the Middle Ages] it was known to be used in Holland,
      > Germany, Baltics, Poland, and Belarus. It seems
      > certain, that the hayracks spread from Western Europe
      > eastward in the middle ages. It was found in
      > northeastern Hungary in the 16-17 century at the edges
      > of the great Hungarian plain.
      >
      > Az aborát a cseh Veliszláv-biblia rajzolója a 14.
      > sz.-ban megörökítette, de megtalálható 15. sz.-i angol
      > képes ábrázolásokon is. Az újkorban ismeretes volt
      > holland, német, balti, lengyel és belorusz területeken
      > is. Bizonyítottnak látszik, hogy az abora Ny-Európából
      > a középkorban terjedt kelet felé. Az abora a 14. sz.
      > elején egy bodrogközi falu neveként már ismert volt. A
      > 16–17. sz.-tól adatolható az abora használata az ÉK-i
      > Kárpátokban s az Alföld érintkezo" peremén.
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      >
      > In the same area, it could be found on farms of large
      > land owners. In the 19th century, Hungarian economic
      > writers promoted the use of abora, but it was to no
      > avail. It is also spelled abara.
      >
      > E terület nagy uradalmaiban is megtalálható volt. A
      > 19. sz.-i magyar gazdasági írók eredménytelenül
      > propagálták használatát. Abara néven is ismerik.
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      >
      > Literature citations [do you need these translated
      > too?]
      >
      > – Irod. Kwasn'iewski, Kristóf: Etnografia Polska
      > (1965); Schier, Bruno: Hauslandschaften und
      > Kulturbewegungen im östlichen Mitteleuropa (Göttingen,
      > 1966); Paládi-Kovács Attila: Az abara. Egy szénatároló
      > építmény a magyar parasztok gazdálkodásában (Népi
      > Kultúra – Népi Társadalom, 1969)
      >
      >
      > --- Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
      >
      >> Thank you Doc. It adds some supporting framework to
      >> the when and where.
      >> Hopefully this information will open some doors.
      >>
      >> While we are speaking of Hungary, I want to
      >> emphasize to the group how
      >> important and relevant documents, books, essays and
      >> histories of Hungary are
      >> to us Slovakia researchers. There is much that can
      >> be gained from reading
      >> these documents, in large part because there was so
      >> little written about our
      >> region in particular. It was just lumped into the
      >> larger works.
      >>
      >> In my early research, I largely ignored Hungarian
      >> works, and boy that was a
      >> mistake. While what is written may be small and
      >> selective, it is important
      >> nonetheless. Janet's reference to "Hungarian
      >> Ethnography and Folklore",
      >> translated into English and posted online is a
      >> treasure. For certain there
      >> are many other very valuable Magyar-language
      >> documents that will hopefully
      >> be translated someday, or perhaps we will learn to
      >> read Magyar too!
      >>
      >> ______________
      >> Bill Tarkulich
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> -----Original Message-----
      >> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      >> [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      >> Behalf Of Dr. Joe Q
      >> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 11:20 AM
      >> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      >> Subject: RE: [S-R] Brief Magyar (Hungary)
      >> Translation
      >>
      >> Dear Bill,
      >>
      >> Below is the article in the link. As was previously
      >> pointed out, the sentence "Bizonyítottnak látszik,
      >> hogy az abora Ny-Európából a középkorban terjedt
      >> kelet
      >> felé." tells a lot. I have added the translation of
      >> the other important sentences in that section which
      >> I
      >> have set off with dashes.
      >>
      >> Dr. "Q"
      >>
      >> ***************************
      >>
      >> széna és kevés gabona tárolására szolgáló építmény,
      >> amelynek négy tartóoszlopon nyugvó, mozgatható
      >> fedele
      >> van. A teto"t az aborában tárolt termény, takarmány
      >> mennyiségéto"l függo"en szokták feljebb emelni vagy
      >> lejjebb csúsztatni. A teto" legtöbbször piramis,
      >> ritkábban nyereg formájú; fazsindellyel, ?
      >> dránicával
      >> vagy zsúppal fedett. Az abora fedele (neve: sisak,
      >> sapka) a tartóoszlopokba szabályos közönként fúrt
      >> lyukakba illesztett keményfa vagy vascsapokon
      >> nyugszik. Az aborának ritkán van fala. A történeti
      >> Zemplén, Ung, Bereg, Ugocsa, Máramaros és Szatmár m.
      >> magyar és ukrán parasztságának jellegzetes
      >> építménye.
      >> Használják a máramarosi románok és a sárosi
      >> szlovákok
      >> is. A Kárpát-medence egyéb tájain – néhány
      >> szórványos
      >> megjelenését leszámítva – az abora ismeretlen.
      >>
      >> ---------------------------------
      >>
      >> Az aborát a cseh Veliszláv-biblia rajzolója a 14.
      >> sz.-ban megörökítette, de megtalálható 15. sz.-i
      >> angol
      >> képes ábrázolásokon is. Az újkorban ismeretes volt
      >> holland, német, balti, lengyel és belorusz
      >> területeken
      >> is. Bizonyítottnak látszik, hogy az abora
      >> Ny-Európából
      >> a középkorban terjedt kelet felé. Az abora a 14. sz.
      >> elején egy bodrogközi falu neveként már ismert volt.
      >> A
      >> 16–17. sz.-tól adatolható az abora használata az
      >> ÉK-i
      >> Kárpátokban s az Alföld érintkezo" peremén.
      >>
      >> There is an illustration of it in a 14 century Czech
      >> bible, in the 15 century there is a drawing of one
      >> in
      >> (unspecified) English writing. In a Czech bible from
      >> the 14 century there is a picutIn the new ages
      >> (after
      >> the middle ages) it was known to be used in Holland,
      >> Germany, Baltics, Poland, and Belorus. It seems
      >> certain, that the hayracks spread from Western
      >> Europe
      >> eastward in the middle ages. It was found in
      >> northeastern Hungary in the 16-17 century.
      >>
      >> ---------------------------------
      >>
      >> E terület nagy uradalmaiban is megtalálható volt. A
      >> 19. sz.-i magyar gazdasági írók eredménytelenül
      >> propagálták használatát. Abara néven is ismerik. –
      >> Irod. Kwasn'iewski, Kristóf: Etnografia Polska
      >> (1965);
      >> Schier, Bruno: Hauslandschaften und Kulturbewegungen
      >> im östlichen Mitteleuropa (Göttingen, 1966);
      >> Paládi-Kovács Attila: Az abara. Egy szénatároló
      >> építmény a magyar parasztok gazdálkodásában (Népi
      >> Kultúra – Népi Társadalom, 1969)
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> --- Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> > Thank you very much John. This lends some support
      >> > to the side of the
      >> > argument that Hay Racks were originally a Dutch
      >> > invention.
      >> >
      >> > ______________
      >> > Bill Tarkulich
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > -----Original Message-----
      >> > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      >> > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      >> > Behalf Of John Venham
      >> > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:59 AM
      >> > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      >> > Subject: Re: [S-R] Brief Magyar (Hungary)
      >> > Translation
      >> >
      >> > Bill,
      >> >
      >> > The key sentence to answer your question:
      >> >
      >> > Bizonyítottnak látszik, hogy az abora Ny-Európából
      >> a
      >> > középkorban terjedt kelet felé.
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > It seems certain, that the hayracks spread from
      >> > Western Europe eastward in the middle ages.
      >> >
      >> > John Venham
      >> >
      >> > --- Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
      >> wrote:
      >> >
      >> > > Brief Magyar (Hungary) Translation
      >> > >
      >> > >
      >> > >
      >> > > Anyone care to take a stab at this page?
      >> > >
      >> > > http://mek.oszk.hu/02100/02115/html/1-18.html
      >> > >
      >> > >
      >> > >
      >> > > It's written in Magyar. It's about the hay
      >> > > racks/obhory/abora. What I
      >> > > really want to know is does the text indicate
      >> > where
      >> > > the racks originated?
      >> > >
      >> > >
      >> > >
      >> > > Thanks!
      >> > >
      >> > >
      >> > >
      >> > > ______________
      >> > > Bill Tarkulich
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
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