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Somon, Luknar, Jendek

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  • Suzie Forehand
    Greetings, I am new to the group, and this is my first posting. My sister and I are going to Bratislava on August 2. The purpose of our trip, apart from
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 6, 2005
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      Greetings,

      I am new to the group, and this is my first posting. My sister and I are going to Bratislava on August 2. The purpose of our trip, apart from sightseeing, is to find some relatives. We have very little information, other than locating our grandmother and grandfather's names on the Ellis Island lists. Following is the only information we have, other than 3 photos, from our deceased father:

      Our father Joseph Shomon was the son of Veronica Luknar (1890-1977) and Joseph (Ferencz) Somon (1884-1934). The story we have about how our grandparents met is that they were in--perhaps working--a vineyard just outside Bratislava in a town called Raca and fell in love. Veronica's parents were Julia Jendek and Emirick Luknar. Joseph's father was Anton Somon. I do have the first names of our grandparents siblings, though I do not know if that will help.

      I have checked the Bratislava phone book with no success. I found Raca on a map and it is 4.9 miles north of Bratislava.

      I am leaving Virginia on July 27 to meet my sister in Madrid before journeying to Bratislava.

      We would appreciate any help with our search.

      Suzie Forehand



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    • johnqadam
      1) Raca is a suburb of Bratislava. You are on the right track. 2) SLOVAK TELEPHONE WHITE PAGES You might find relatives in Slovakia who have a telephone by
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 6, 2005
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        1) Raca is a suburb of Bratislava. You are on the right track.

        2) SLOVAK TELEPHONE WHITE PAGES
        You might find relatives in Slovakia who have a telephone by looking
        them up in the phone book white pages at
        http://www.zoznamst.sk/eng/index.html using (at least) the first
        three letters of the family name and the area code 02.

        The Slovak area code map is at
        http://www.centroconsult.sk/facilities/phonemap.html

        Somon is not found but Luknar(ova) is found 67X in area code 02.
        Jendek(ova) appears 27X in area code 02.

        3) If you are able to send a letter to all with accompanying pix,
        you might locate a cousin. You can get letter writing advice at
        http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/correspondence.htm

        4) Best map book is Podrobny Auto Atlas, scale 1: 100,000. Shown at
        $20 at http://www.slovakic.com/index.php?category=BMMAPS

        5) FICHES (set of 6) LDS #6000786
        Survey of parish registers in Slovakia up to the time of civil
        registration. Provides details of church records that are held in
        Slovak archives. Index is on fiche #6 and page references refer to
        different religions. These church records are not yet available on
        film via your LDS Family History Center but are available at the
        Bratislava Archive.

        LOCATE YOUR NEAREST FAMILY HISTORY CENTER AND ORDER FICHE (this
        fiche series #6000786 is often on hand)
        You can go to the LDS web site to locate your nearest Family History
        Center (FHC) and determine their hours of operation. You will need
        to go there in person to check on the fiches or order them (about $2
        to order). www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp

        6) WRITING TO ARCHIVES
        For Czech and Slovak research letter writing help, go to:
        www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp
        Click on SEARCH
        Click on RESEARCH HELPS
        Click on the letter "C"
        Scroll to the bottom of the page
        Select and print PDF document Czech and Slovak Letter-writing Guide
        Also select and print PDF document Czech Word List

        Have a great trip!
      • Suzie Forehand
        Dear John, Thanks so much for your help. I realize I do not have enough information--but you never can tell... Suzie johnqadam wrote:
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 7, 2005
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          Dear John,

          Thanks so much for your help. I realize I do not have enough information--but you never can tell...

          Suzie

          johnqadam <johnqadam@...> wrote:
          1) Raca is a suburb of Bratislava. You are on the right track.

          2) SLOVAK TELEPHONE WHITE PAGES
          You might find relatives in Slovakia who have a telephone by looking
          them up in the phone book white pages at
          http://www.zoznamst.sk/eng/index.html using (at least) the first
          three letters of the family name and the area code 02.

          The Slovak area code map is at
          http://www.centroconsult.sk/facilities/phonemap.html

          Somon is not found but Luknar(ova) is found 67X in area code 02.
          Jendek(ova) appears 27X in area code 02.

          3) If you are able to send a letter to all with accompanying pix,
          you might locate a cousin. You can get letter writing advice at
          http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/correspondence.htm

          4) Best map book is Podrobny Auto Atlas, scale 1: 100,000. Shown at
          $20 at http://www.slovakic.com/index.php?category=BMMAPS

          5) FICHES (set of 6) LDS #6000786
          Survey of parish registers in Slovakia up to the time of civil
          registration. Provides details of church records that are held in
          Slovak archives. Index is on fiche #6 and page references refer to
          different religions. These church records are not yet available on
          film via your LDS Family History Center but are available at the
          Bratislava Archive.

          LOCATE YOUR NEAREST FAMILY HISTORY CENTER AND ORDER FICHE (this
          fiche series #6000786 is often on hand)
          You can go to the LDS web site to locate your nearest Family History
          Center (FHC) and determine their hours of operation. You will need
          to go there in person to check on the fiches or order them (about $2
          to order). www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp

          6) WRITING TO ARCHIVES
          For Czech and Slovak research letter writing help, go to:
          www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp
          Click on SEARCH
          Click on RESEARCH HELPS
          Click on the letter "C"
          Scroll to the bottom of the page
          Select and print PDF document Czech and Slovak Letter-writing Guide
          Also select and print PDF document Czech Word List

          Have a great trip!




          To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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        • Dennis Lee Bubla
          John, great info, and the web site is full of great info. One question...If one s surname was hungarianized after immigration to the US happened, how would
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 18, 2005
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            John, great info, and the web site is full of great info. One
            question...If one's surname was "hungarianized" after immigration to
            the US happened, how would one know? By the same token, if one's name
            was "hungarianized" before immigration, and the immigrant chose to
            use the Slovak name, how would one know? Could it be possible that
            the surname was or was not changed? For example, at the site, it
            spoke of using the phone book to "locate" names. Given my US
            surname "Bubla", I find Bublova (the female ending of the Bubla
            surname, Bubla, and Bublavy, which could be the "hungarianized" form
            of Bubla. To underscore this, on my cousin's surname, Hluchan, it
            was "hungarianized to Hluchany, but they still use
            Hluchan/Hluchanova. Your and the groups thopught? dennis

            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "johnqadam" <johnqadam@r...>
            wrote:
            > 1) Raca is a suburb of Bratislava. You are on the right track.
            >
            > 2) SLOVAK TELEPHONE WHITE PAGES
            > You might find relatives in Slovakia who have a telephone by
            looking
            > them up in the phone book white pages at
            > http://www.zoznamst.sk/eng/index.html using (at least) the first
            > three letters of the family name and the area code 02.
            >
            > The Slovak area code map is at
            > http://www.centroconsult.sk/facilities/phonemap.html
            >
            > Somon is not found but Luknar(ova) is found 67X in area code 02.
            > Jendek(ova) appears 27X in area code 02.
            >
            > 3) If you are able to send a letter to all with accompanying pix,
            > you might locate a cousin. You can get letter writing advice at
            > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/correspondence.htm
            >
            > 4) Best map book is Podrobny Auto Atlas, scale 1: 100,000. Shown at
            > $20 at http://www.slovakic.com/index.php?category=BMMAPS
            >
            > 5) FICHES (set of 6) LDS #6000786
            > Survey of parish registers in Slovakia up to the time of civil
            > registration. Provides details of church records that are held in
            > Slovak archives. Index is on fiche #6 and page references refer to
            > different religions. These church records are not yet available on
            > film via your LDS Family History Center but are available at the
            > Bratislava Archive.
            >
            > LOCATE YOUR NEAREST FAMILY HISTORY CENTER AND ORDER FICHE (this
            > fiche series #6000786 is often on hand)
            > You can go to the LDS web site to locate your nearest Family
            History
            > Center (FHC) and determine their hours of operation. You will need
            > to go there in person to check on the fiches or order them (about
            $2
            > to order). www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp
            >
            > 6) WRITING TO ARCHIVES
            > For Czech and Slovak research letter writing help, go to:
            > www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp
            > Click on SEARCH
            > Click on RESEARCH HELPS
            > Click on the letter "C"
            > Scroll to the bottom of the page
            > Select and print PDF document Czech and Slovak Letter-writing Guide
            > Also select and print PDF document Czech Word List
            >
            > Have a great trip!
          • johnqadam
            I have no particular expertise on names. My simple observation is that the peasant folk were often illiterate and the priest recorded names in the church
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 18, 2005
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              I have no particular expertise on names. My simple observation is that
              the peasant folk were often illiterate and the priest recorded names
              in the church records as he heard them or knew them to be. For
              example, I wonder if anyone in Slovakia was actually called Michael in
              spite of the fact that a Latin priest would record the name as such.
              Another priest would write Michal or Mihaly for the same person.

              Adam became Adams in PA when a birth record was so written and so we
              now have some Slovak Adams in PA but the name was and is Adam in
              Slovakia.
            • Bill Tarkulich
              Here are some general rules of thumb. Of course, for every rule there are exceptions, and everyone s live is a unique journey. These generalizations may help
              Message 6 of 6 , Jul 18, 2005
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                Here are some general rules of thumb. Of course, for every rule there are
                exceptions, and everyone's live is a unique journey. These generalizations
                may help you in your analysis.

                1. Foremost, if the "boss" told you to write in a specific language, you did
                it. Examples: Roman Catholic priests were instructed to write in Latin by
                their hierarchs. Later, all religions were told to write in Magyar by the
                government. Still later, Slovak. Greek Catholics were instructed by their
                hierarchs to write in Church Slavonic until the 18th century when the
                government mandated Magyar.

                Ship's pursers in Germany, tried to understand many languages and represent
                them as best as possible. Often times, the ethnic name was not understood
                and rendered phonetically in whatever language the Purser understood or was
                instructed in.

                2. When in doubt, the scribe (priest, bureaucrat, ship's purser, etc.)
                wrote in the language he was most comfortable. This may be based on the
                country he was in or the language he was trained in or mastered. Most
                immigrants were illiterate, as John of course indicated.

                3. Look for language clues. The language constructs (rules) often dictated
                how a word would be written. TARKULICZ could have been either Polish or
                Magyar. TARKULICS could have been revised Magyar or old Latin. TARKULIC'
                (with the accent over the 'c', would be a dead giveaway for Slovak.) This
                would be a transliteration.

                4. Look for consistency. On the same document, if the village name was its
                old Magyar name, chances are good the surname was too.

                5. Given names were often translated and had foreign language equivalents.
                Immigrants were interested in keeping their given name, translating it to an
                English equivalent, whenever possible. Here
                http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/sc/oconee/misc/foreign-names.txt is a
                very handy guide to comparing various names that were commonly used between
                languages.

                Here's an example. My father Michael (English) has a cousin Mihaly (Slovak)
                and an ancestor Mihaly. All the same name, different language renderings.

                6. Consider the time period in which the document was written. Before 1918,
                Hungarian rule, Magyar in widespread use.

                Exceptions. Here are some common deviations from the above.

                a. Post-1918 Magyar (place, given or sur-) names still used in US documents.
                Sometimes the immigrant loses touch or simply chooses to continue using the
                old names, even though in the old country everything changed.
                b. Remote villages were often the last to fall under the Magyarization
                control.
                c. As early as 1910 many Upper Hungary (Slovakia) villages reverted to using
                their Slovak village names. Schizophrenia ruled, depending on who they were
                talking to. They spoke Magyar to the Hungarian bureaucrats, filled in the
                forms in Magyar, but continued to speak in their native tongue (Slovak or
                Rusyn).

                With all of that, let me take focus on your specific questions.

                .If one's surname was "hungarianized" after immigration to
                the US happened, how would one know?
                > You can never know for certain, but it is highly unlikely this scenario
                would ever have occurred in America. It is pretty certain that most of our
                immigrant ancestors really did not like their Hungarian rulers and were
                happy to discard the vestiges Magyar. If however, you are talking about the
                family they left behind, you'd have to look for language clues. Most often,
                however, you can narrow in very quickly on the variations the surname
                spelling took.

                By the same token, if one's name
                was "hungarianized" before immigration, and the immigrant chose to
                use the Slovak name, how would one know?
                > Again, no one would know. The immigrant would more than likely be
                interested in translating their given name to something English-like. Jan
                became John, Mikulas became Nicholas, Maria becomes Mary and so on. Some
                names had no equivalents. Wasyl becomes Charles to a great many people.

                Secondly, surnames, which can only be transliterated, NOT translated, were
                *usually* changed only enough to make their name pronounceable in English.
                TARKULICS becomes TARKULICH.

                Could it be possible that the surname was or was not changed?
                >Again, anything is possible. There is no common answer here. See above.

                So I hope you can appreciate that there is not necessarily any "right" or
                "wrong" name. If I moved to Germany today, most likely I would be called
                Wilhelm by the German-speakers. Does that make William invalid? Of course
                not.

                And to muddy the waters further, in these small villages, most people went
                by an "alias" or a "nickname." This was done for twofold reasons: first, it
                was an object of affection, the second was more practical: many people had
                the same given name surname combinations. So they may never have needed to
                use their "formal" names in their entire lives. Life was much simpler when
                you were born and died in the same village and everyone knew everyone else.
                The need for formal naming conventions just wasn't there.

                Hope this helps a little bit.

                ______________
                Bill Tarkulich




                -----Original Message-----
                From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Dennis Lee Bubla
                Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 7:21 PM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [S-R] Hungarianized Surnames


                John, great info, and the web site is full of great info. One
                question...If one's surname was "hungarianized" after immigration to
                the US happened, how would one know? By the same token, if one's name
                was "hungarianized" before immigration, and the immigrant chose to
                use the Slovak name, how would one know? Could it be possible that
                the surname was or was not changed? For example, at the site, it
                spoke of using the phone book to "locate" names. Given my US
                surname "Bubla", I find Bublova (the female ending of the Bubla
                surname, Bubla, and Bublavy, which could be the "hungarianized" form
                of Bubla. To underscore this, on my cousin's surname, Hluchan, it
                was "hungarianized to Hluchany, but they still use
                Hluchan/Hluchanova. Your and the groups thopught? dennis

                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "johnqadam" <johnqadam@r...>
                wrote:
                > 1) Raca is a suburb of Bratislava. You are on the right track.
                >
                > 2) SLOVAK TELEPHONE WHITE PAGES
                > You might find relatives in Slovakia who have a telephone by
                looking
                > them up in the phone book white pages at
                > http://www.zoznamst.sk/eng/index.html using (at least) the first
                > three letters of the family name and the area code 02.
                >
                > The Slovak area code map is at
                > http://www.centroconsult.sk/facilities/phonemap.html
                >
                > Somon is not found but Luknar(ova) is found 67X in area code 02.
                > Jendek(ova) appears 27X in area code 02.
                >
                > 3) If you are able to send a letter to all with accompanying pix,
                > you might locate a cousin. You can get letter writing advice at
                > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/correspondence.htm
                >
                > 4) Best map book is Podrobny Auto Atlas, scale 1: 100,000. Shown at
                > $20 at http://www.slovakic.com/index.php?category=BMMAPS
                >
                > 5) FICHES (set of 6) LDS #6000786
                > Survey of parish registers in Slovakia up to the time of civil
                > registration. Provides details of church records that are held in
                > Slovak archives. Index is on fiche #6 and page references refer to
                > different religions. These church records are not yet available on
                > film via your LDS Family History Center but are available at the
                > Bratislava Archive.
                >
                > LOCATE YOUR NEAREST FAMILY HISTORY CENTER AND ORDER FICHE (this
                > fiche series #6000786 is often on hand)
                > You can go to the LDS web site to locate your nearest Family
                History
                > Center (FHC) and determine their hours of operation. You will need
                > to go there in person to check on the fiches or order them (about
                $2
                > to order). www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp
                >
                > 6) WRITING TO ARCHIVES
                > For Czech and Slovak research letter writing help, go to:
                > www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp
                > Click on SEARCH
                > Click on RESEARCH HELPS
                > Click on the letter "C"
                > Scroll to the bottom of the page
                > Select and print PDF document Czech and Slovak Letter-writing Guide
                > Also select and print PDF document Czech Word List
                >
                > Have a great trip!





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