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Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name

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  • Michael Mojher
    Dear Frank, I agree with the spirit of your reply. In this case someone asked me to find out what the names may be equivalent to. The only problem I see with
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 9, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear Frank,
      I agree with the spirit of your reply.
      In this case someone asked me to find out what the names may be equivalent to.
      The only problem I see with your view is that there are at times up to three different way a single name may appear in records. There were the State spelling which could have been Hungarian, the Church which could be in Latin and the local vernacular which could have been Slovak. That being the case, which one would you choose to use on your family tree?
      Michael Mojher
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Frank R. Plichta
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 1:50 PM
      Subject: RE: [S-R] Translation of Given Name


      I don't have an answer for your question but I do have some thoughts about
      translating names.

      If your ancestors were know as "Aulon" or "Fanor", than that is what their
      names were. It doesn't make sense to me to think of them as "Tom", "Dick"
      or "Harry" because they were never known as such in their lifetime. They
      were "Aulon" and "Fanor" and that is how they should be remembered. Using
      the names by which they were known, places them in the proper contest of the
      time and place where they lived in history. It helps recognize their
      heritage and it helps explain the ancestral names used by your family. If
      someone were to check other historical records they would not find "Tom",
      "Dick" or "Harry" they would in fact find "Aulon" and "Fanor".

      I recommend against the practice of trying to translate names. My
      grandfather was "Juri". That is how everyone knew him and I remember them
      calling him "Juri" when I was growing up. He never was "George". "George"
      is out of context with my grandfather's time and the people who know him
      when he was alive.

      Similarly, with place names. Names of places have changed over time, not
      only the cities and towns but the countries. I prefer to use the name of
      the location in general use at the time that the ancestral event (birth,
      marriage or death) took place. So for some in my family it was the Kingdom
      of Hungary, Austria-Hungarian Empire, Czecho-Slovakia, Czechoslovakia, or
      the Republic of Slovakia. The modern day name for a location did not exist
      one hundred or two hundred years ago.

      Please don't try to translate proper names or place names. I am of the
      opinion that doing so changes history. After all, the study of our
      ancestors is in fact the study of history. I believe it is only proper to
      recognize people, places and events as they were known then. It helps to
      explain how things have changed over time. And, it helps all of us to
      remain true to history.

      Alternate opinions or ideas are appreciated.
      Plichta

      -----Original Message-----
      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Michael Mojher
      Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 3:20 PM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [S-R] Translation of Given Name

      Is there an English equivalent to the given names: Aulon and Fanor?
      Michael Mojher

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
      SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • EMSCRS@aol.com
      Plichta. I had the impression that the person asking was trying to figure out to what their names might have been changed , regardless of why. My
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 9, 2005
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        Plichta.

        I had the impression that the person asking was trying to figure out to what
        their names might have been 'changed', regardless of why. My great-great
        grandparents, Johann and Verona, for reasons of their own became John and
        Veronica here, and that is how they are on their death certificates and the
        census. Their son, Alois, became Louis. I was not trying to suggest that changing
        names is a good thing, but if it happened it helps to have an idea what the
        change may have been so you know what to look for.

        Elizabeth


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Evelyn Marsh
        Thank you Elizabeth and Mick. That s exactly what I meant! Evelyn ... Plichta. I had the impression that the person asking was trying to figure out to what
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 9, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Thank you Elizabeth and Mick. That's exactly what I
          meant!
          Evelyn
          --- EMSCRS@... wrote:


          ---------------------------------
          Plichta.

          I had the impression that the person asking was trying
          to figure out to what
          their names might have been 'changed', regardless of
          why. My great-great
          grandparents, Johann and Verona, for reasons of their
          own became John and
          Veronica here, and that is how they are on their death
          certificates and the
          census. Their son, Alois, became Louis. I was not
          trying to suggest that changing
          names is a good thing, but if it happened it helps to
          have an idea what the
          change may have been so you know what to look for.

          Elizabeth


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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        • Frank R. Plichta
          Michael, I guess I missed the original request. I was commenting on the more narrow comment in your message that was simply: Is there an English equivalent
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 9, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Michael,

            I guess I missed the original request. I was commenting on the more narrow
            comment in your message that was simply:
            "Is there an English equivalent to the given names: Aulon and Fanor?
            Michael Mojher"
            I was unaware that someone had posted an earlier comment or the context in
            which the request was made.

            You could not have expressed the issue better than in your message below
            where you mention the use of Magyar [sic. Hungarian], Latin and Slovak in
            various records. My genealogy records might show any or all of the above,
            depending if the record at the archive is a state record or a church record.
            But in my family tree I strive to determine the name by which the person
            would have been know by their family. But I would never "translate" a name
            into English. Of course, my family was easy since my father, Frantisck, was
            born in Czechoslovakia. I'm the first person with an "English" name, Frank.
            So I do not have the problem of trying to search records in the United
            States. All of my research has been in Slovakia where I have traveled twice
            to search out my family tree back to a marriage in 1766.

            Enjoy,
            Plichta

            -----Original Message-----
            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Michael Mojher
            Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 7:02 PM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name

            Dear Frank,
            I agree with the spirit of your reply.
            In this case someone asked me to find out what the names may be
            equivalent to.
            The only problem I see with your view is that there are at times up to
            three different way a single name may appear in records. There were the
            State spelling which could have been Hungarian, the Church which could be in
            Latin and the local vernacular which could have been Slovak. That being the
            case, which one would you choose to use on your family tree?
            Michael Mojher
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Frank R. Plichta
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 1:50 PM
            Subject: RE: [S-R] Translation of Given Name


            I don't have an answer for your question but I do have some thoughts about
            translating names.

            If your ancestors were know as "Aulon" or "Fanor", than that is what their
            names were. It doesn't make sense to me to think of them as "Tom", "Dick"
            or "Harry" because they were never known as such in their lifetime. They
            were "Aulon" and "Fanor" and that is how they should be remembered. Using
            the names by which they were known, places them in the proper contest of
            the
            time and place where they lived in history. It helps recognize their
            heritage and it helps explain the ancestral names used by your family. If
            someone were to check other historical records they would not find "Tom",
            "Dick" or "Harry" they would in fact find "Aulon" and "Fanor".

            I recommend against the practice of trying to translate names. My
            grandfather was "Juri". That is how everyone knew him and I remember them
            calling him "Juri" when I was growing up. He never was "George".
            "George"
            is out of context with my grandfather's time and the people who know him
            when he was alive.

            Similarly, with place names. Names of places have changed over time, not
            only the cities and towns but the countries. I prefer to use the name of
            the location in general use at the time that the ancestral event (birth,
            marriage or death) took place. So for some in my family it was the
            Kingdom
            of Hungary, Austria-Hungarian Empire, Czecho-Slovakia, Czechoslovakia, or
            the Republic of Slovakia. The modern day name for a location did not
            exist
            one hundred or two hundred years ago.

            Please don't try to translate proper names or place names. I am of the
            opinion that doing so changes history. After all, the study of our
            ancestors is in fact the study of history. I believe it is only proper to
            recognize people, places and events as they were known then. It helps to
            explain how things have changed over time. And, it helps all of us to
            remain true to history.

            Alternate opinions or ideas are appreciated.
            Plichta

            -----Original Message-----
            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
            On
            Behalf Of Michael Mojher
            Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 3:20 PM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [S-R] Translation of Given Name

            Is there an English equivalent to the given names: Aulon and Fanor?
            Michael Mojher

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
            SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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          • Frank
            ... more narrow ... context in ... below ... Slovak in ... above, ... church record. ... person ... translate a name ... Frantisck, was ... name, Frank. ...
            Message 5 of 12 , Jun 10, 2005
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              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Frank R. Plichta"
              <frank.r.plichta@e...> wrote:
              > Michael,
              >
              > I guess I missed the original request. I was commenting on the
              more
              narrow
              > comment in your message that was simply:
              > "Is there an English equivalent to the given names: Aulon and Fanor?
              > Michael Mojher"
              > I was unaware that someone had posted an earlier comment or the
              context in
              > which the request was made.
              >
              > You could not have expressed the issue better than in your message
              below
              > where you mention the use of Magyar [sic. Hungarian], Latin and
              Slovak in
              > various records. My genealogy records might show any or all of the
              above,
              > depending if the record at the archive is a state record or a
              church
              record.
              > But in my family tree I strive to determine the name by which the
              person
              > would have been know by their family. But I would never
              "translate"
              a name
              > into English. Of course, my family was easy since my father,
              Frantisck, was
              > born in Czechoslovakia. I'm the first person with an "English"
              name, Frank.
              > So I do not have the problem of trying to search records in the
              United
              > States. All of my research has been in Slovakia where I have
              traveled twice
              > to search out my family tree back to a marriage in 1766.
              >
              > Enjoy,
              > Plichta

              Michael and Frank,

              The major cause of incorrect given names and place names in ship
              manifests was the misspellings and mistranscribing.

              In a 1913 ship manifest an Aulon Masrar (mistranscribed) was listed.
              His name was actually written as Anton Maszar (H) on the second ship
              manifest page.

              On a 1907 ship manifest page three given names Ferenc(z) (Frank,
              Francis) and two János (John) and two Antons (Anthony (Sk) were
              listed.
              Also two names spelled ?anosz or Fanorz ?
              The Franks were written with a definite script letter F.
              However, the Fanorz ? was written with same script letter J as the
              János.
              Expect your Fanor was actually the mistranscribed given name János.

              My father was also named Ferencz (H)
              My name is Frank
              Meum nomen Franciscus est
              Mon nom est François
              Mi chiamo Francisco
              Me llamo Francesco
              Mam na imie Franciszek
              Ime mi je Franjo
              Volám sa Frantis^ek
              Jmenuji se Frantis^ek
              Ferencz nak hivnak
              Ich heiße Franz
              Mitt namn est Frans
              M e H e 3 B y t b O p a H || (Cyrillic)
              M e n e z v u t - F r a n ts



              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
              > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
              > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 7:02 PM
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
              >
              > Dear Frank,
              > I agree with the spirit of your reply.
              > In this case someone asked me to find out what the names may be
              > equivalent to.
              > The only problem I see with your view is that there are at
              times
              up to
              > three different way a single name may appear in records. There were
              the
              > State spelling which could have been Hungarian, the Church which
              could be in
              > Latin and the local vernacular which could have been Slovak. That
              being the
              > case, which one would you choose to use on your family tree?
              > Michael Mojher
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Frank R. Plichta
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 1:50 PM
              > Subject: RE: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
              >
              >
              > I don't have an answer for your question but I do have some
              thoughts about
              > translating names.
              >
              > If your ancestors were know as "Aulon" or "Fanor", than that is
              what their
              > names were. It doesn't make sense to me to think of them as
              "Tom", "Dick"
              > or "Harry" because they were never known as such in their
              lifetime. They
              > were "Aulon" and "Fanor" and that is how they should be
              remembered. Using
              > the names by which they were known, places them in the proper
              contest of
              > the
              > time and place where they lived in history. It helps recognize
              their
              > heritage and it helps explain the ancestral names used by your
              family. If
              > someone were to check other historical records they would not
              find
              "Tom",
              > "Dick" or "Harry" they would in fact find "Aulon" and "Fanor".
              >
              > I recommend against the practice of trying to translate names. My
              > grandfather was "Juri". That is how everyone knew him and I
              remember them
              > calling him "Juri" when I was growing up. He never was "George".
              > "George"
              > is out of context with my grandfather's time and the people who
              know him
              > when he was alive.
              >
              > Similarly, with place names. Names of places have changed over
              time, not
              > only the cities and towns but the countries. I prefer to use the
              name of
              > the location in general use at the time that the ancestral event
              (birth,
              > marriage or death) took place. So for some in my family it was
              the
              > Kingdom
              > of Hungary, Austria-Hungarian Empire, Czecho-Slovakia,
              Czechoslovakia, or
              > the Republic of Slovakia. The modern day name for a location did
              not
              > exist
              > one hundred or two hundred years ago.
              >
              > Please don't try to translate proper names or place names. I am
              of the
              > opinion that doing so changes history. After all, the study of
              our
              > ancestors is in fact the study of history. I believe it is only
              proper to
              > recognize people, places and events as they were known then. It
              helps to
              > explain how things have changed over time. And, it helps all of
              us to
              > remain true to history.
              >
              > Alternate opinions or ideas are appreciated.
              > Plichta
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
              > On
              > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
              > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 3:20 PM
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
              >
              > Is there an English equivalent to the given names: Aulon and
              Fanor?
              > Michael Mojher
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
              email to
              > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
              email to
              > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
              email to
              > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Michael Mojher
              Frank, You said that all of your research has been done on your two trips to Slovakia. I was wondering how that went. From my experience I have found that I
              Message 6 of 12 , Jun 11, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Frank,
                You said that all of your research has been done on your two trips to Slovakia. I was wondering how that went.
                From my experience I have found that I was able to get more information through the Family History Center's films than I could in Slovakia. The easiest records to access are those kept at the town's City Hall. The problem is they rarely go back beyond the 1880's. And my one day at the Presov Archives was rather disappointing because of the paperwork and the time it took to get access to the records.
                Michael
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Frank
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 8:25 AM
                Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name


                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Frank R. Plichta"
                <frank.r.plichta@e...> wrote:
                > Michael,
                >
                > I guess I missed the original request. I was commenting on the
                more
                narrow
                > comment in your message that was simply:
                > "Is there an English equivalent to the given names: Aulon and Fanor?
                > Michael Mojher"
                > I was unaware that someone had posted an earlier comment or the
                context in
                > which the request was made.
                >
                > You could not have expressed the issue better than in your message
                below
                > where you mention the use of Magyar [sic. Hungarian], Latin and
                Slovak in
                > various records. My genealogy records might show any or all of the
                above,
                > depending if the record at the archive is a state record or a
                church
                record.
                > But in my family tree I strive to determine the name by which the
                person
                > would have been know by their family. But I would never
                "translate"
                a name
                > into English. Of course, my family was easy since my father,
                Frantisck, was
                > born in Czechoslovakia. I'm the first person with an "English"
                name, Frank.
                > So I do not have the problem of trying to search records in the
                United
                > States. All of my research has been in Slovakia where I have
                traveled twice
                > to search out my family tree back to a marriage in 1766.
                >
                > Enjoy,
                > Plichta

                Michael and Frank,

                The major cause of incorrect given names and place names in ship
                manifests was the misspellings and mistranscribing.

                In a 1913 ship manifest an Aulon Masrar (mistranscribed) was listed.
                His name was actually written as Anton Maszar (H) on the second ship
                manifest page.

                On a 1907 ship manifest page three given names Ferenc(z) (Frank,
                Francis) and two János (John) and two Antons (Anthony (Sk) were
                listed.
                Also two names spelled ?anosz or Fanorz ?
                The Franks were written with a definite script letter F.
                However, the Fanorz ? was written with same script letter J as the
                János.
                Expect your Fanor was actually the mistranscribed given name János.

                My father was also named Ferencz (H)
                My name is Frank
                Meum nomen Franciscus est
                Mon nom est François
                Mi chiamo Francisco
                Me llamo Francesco
                Mam na imie Franciszek
                Ime mi je Franjo
                Volám sa Frantis^ek
                Jmenuji se Frantis^ek
                Ferencz nak hivnak
                Ich heiße Franz
                Mitt namn est Frans
                M e H e 3 B y t b O p a H || (Cyrillic)
                M e n e z v u t - F r a n ts



                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 7:02 PM
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                >
                > Dear Frank,
                > I agree with the spirit of your reply.
                > In this case someone asked me to find out what the names may be
                > equivalent to.
                > The only problem I see with your view is that there are at
                times
                up to
                > three different way a single name may appear in records. There were
                the
                > State spelling which could have been Hungarian, the Church which
                could be in
                > Latin and the local vernacular which could have been Slovak. That
                being the
                > case, which one would you choose to use on your family tree?
                > Michael Mojher
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Frank R. Plichta
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 1:50 PM
                > Subject: RE: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                >
                >
                > I don't have an answer for your question but I do have some
                thoughts about
                > translating names.
                >
                > If your ancestors were know as "Aulon" or "Fanor", than that is
                what their
                > names were. It doesn't make sense to me to think of them as
                "Tom", "Dick"
                > or "Harry" because they were never known as such in their
                lifetime. They
                > were "Aulon" and "Fanor" and that is how they should be
                remembered. Using
                > the names by which they were known, places them in the proper
                contest of
                > the
                > time and place where they lived in history. It helps recognize
                their
                > heritage and it helps explain the ancestral names used by your
                family. If
                > someone were to check other historical records they would not
                find
                "Tom",
                > "Dick" or "Harry" they would in fact find "Aulon" and "Fanor".
                >
                > I recommend against the practice of trying to translate names. My
                > grandfather was "Juri". That is how everyone knew him and I
                remember them
                > calling him "Juri" when I was growing up. He never was "George".
                > "George"
                > is out of context with my grandfather's time and the people who
                know him
                > when he was alive.
                >
                > Similarly, with place names. Names of places have changed over
                time, not
                > only the cities and towns but the countries. I prefer to use the
                name of
                > the location in general use at the time that the ancestral event
                (birth,
                > marriage or death) took place. So for some in my family it was
                the
                > Kingdom
                > of Hungary, Austria-Hungarian Empire, Czecho-Slovakia,
                Czechoslovakia, or
                > the Republic of Slovakia. The modern day name for a location did
                not
                > exist
                > one hundred or two hundred years ago.
                >
                > Please don't try to translate proper names or place names. I am
                of the
                > opinion that doing so changes history. After all, the study of
                our
                > ancestors is in fact the study of history. I believe it is only
                proper to
                > recognize people, places and events as they were known then. It
                helps to
                > explain how things have changed over time. And, it helps all of
                us to
                > remain true to history.
                >
                > Alternate opinions or ideas are appreciated.
                > Plichta
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                > On
                > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 3:20 PM
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                >
                > Is there an English equivalent to the given names: Aulon and
                Fanor?
                > Michael Mojher
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Frank R. Plichta
                Access to the archives was without problem. I visited, Kos^ice, Pres^ov, Bratislava and Vienna. The only place that I had any problems was in Bratislava.
                Message 7 of 12 , Jun 11, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Access to the archives was without problem. I visited, Kos^ice, Pres^ov,
                  Bratislava and Vienna. The only place that I had any problems was in
                  Bratislava. They were the least helpful although I have to admit that I did
                  not have a specific family tie to those archives. I was fishing for others
                  with my surname without any specifics involved. I also went to the local
                  village church in Dlhe' nad Cirochou my maternal side of the family and to
                  the village hall in Kos^icka' Bela' my paternal side of the family.
                  Everyone was most helpful.

                  There is nothing like picking up those old ledger books from the late 1700's
                  and smelling the bygone years between the pages. Such a delight to see the
                  original entries.

                  I also took a laptop and hand scanner with me. The hand scanner took its
                  power from the laptop. In Kos^ice, Pres^ov and Vienna, they allowed me to
                  scan the pages in the ledger books. We are talking 1996, so this was a few
                  years ago. I must have been the first person to ask to scan the books.
                  They had not seen the hand scanner so they asked me to demonstrate to make
                  sure that I would not damage the books. I scanned the book and showed them
                  the image on my laptop screen and they were satisfied.

                  I had a problem back then, 1996 trying to connect my laptop to a phone line
                  to access email. The one telephone operator phone booth in Snina, said it
                  wasn't possible. I had the adapter for the phone lines but could not make
                  them understand how I was going to access "something" with the laptop
                  connected to the phone line. They wanted to dial the number and then let me
                  "talk". I told them I wasn't going to "talk" but I was going to "type" and
                  I needed to have my laptop dial the number and they said that wasn't
                  possible. I never did get my email in 1996. I'm sure things have changed
                  by now.

                  Frank Plichta

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                  Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 11:11 AM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name

                  Frank,
                  You said that all of your research has been done on your two trips to
                  Slovakia. I was wondering how that went.
                  From my experience I have found that I was able to get more information
                  through the Family History Center's films than I could in Slovakia. The
                  easiest records to access are those kept at the town's City Hall. The
                  problem is they rarely go back beyond the 1880's. And my one day at the
                  Presov Archives was rather disappointing because of the paperwork and the
                  time it took to get access to the records.
                  Michael
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Frank
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 8:25 AM
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name


                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Frank R. Plichta"
                  <frank.r.plichta@e...> wrote:
                  > Michael,
                  >
                  > I guess I missed the original request. I was commenting on the
                  more
                  narrow
                  > comment in your message that was simply:
                  > "Is there an English equivalent to the given names: Aulon and Fanor?
                  > Michael Mojher"
                  > I was unaware that someone had posted an earlier comment or the
                  context in
                  > which the request was made.
                  >
                  > You could not have expressed the issue better than in your message
                  below
                  > where you mention the use of Magyar [sic. Hungarian], Latin and
                  Slovak in
                  > various records. My genealogy records might show any or all of the
                  above,
                  > depending if the record at the archive is a state record or a
                  church
                  record.
                  > But in my family tree I strive to determine the name by which the
                  person
                  > would have been know by their family. But I would never
                  "translate"
                  a name
                  > into English. Of course, my family was easy since my father,
                  Frantisck, was
                  > born in Czechoslovakia. I'm the first person with an "English"
                  name, Frank.
                  > So I do not have the problem of trying to search records in the
                  United
                  > States. All of my research has been in Slovakia where I have
                  traveled twice
                  > to search out my family tree back to a marriage in 1766.
                  >
                  > Enjoy,
                  > Plichta

                  Michael and Frank,

                  The major cause of incorrect given names and place names in ship
                  manifests was the misspellings and mistranscribing.

                  In a 1913 ship manifest an Aulon Masrar (mistranscribed) was listed.
                  His name was actually written as Anton Maszar (H) on the second ship
                  manifest page.

                  On a 1907 ship manifest page three given names Ferenc(z) (Frank,
                  Francis) and two János (John) and two Antons (Anthony (Sk) were
                  listed.
                  Also two names spelled ?anosz or Fanorz ?
                  The Franks were written with a definite script letter F.
                  However, the Fanorz ? was written with same script letter J as the
                  János.
                  Expect your Fanor was actually the mistranscribed given name János.

                  My father was also named Ferencz (H)
                  My name is Frank
                  Meum nomen Franciscus est
                  Mon nom est François
                  Mi chiamo Francisco
                  Me llamo Francesco
                  Mam na imie Franciszek
                  Ime mi je Franjo
                  Volám sa Frantis^ek
                  Jmenuji se Frantis^ek
                  Ferencz nak hivnak
                  Ich heiße Franz
                  Mitt namn est Frans
                  M e H e 3 B y t b O p a H || (Cyrillic)
                  M e n e z v u t - F r a n ts



                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                  > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                  > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 7:02 PM
                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                  >
                  > Dear Frank,
                  > I agree with the spirit of your reply.
                  > In this case someone asked me to find out what the names may be
                  > equivalent to.
                  > The only problem I see with your view is that there are at
                  times
                  up to
                  > three different way a single name may appear in records. There were
                  the
                  > State spelling which could have been Hungarian, the Church which
                  could be in
                  > Latin and the local vernacular which could have been Slovak. That
                  being the
                  > case, which one would you choose to use on your family tree?
                  > Michael Mojher
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Frank R. Plichta
                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 1:50 PM
                  > Subject: RE: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                  >
                  >
                  > I don't have an answer for your question but I do have some
                  thoughts about
                  > translating names.
                  >
                  > If your ancestors were know as "Aulon" or "Fanor", than that is
                  what their
                  > names were. It doesn't make sense to me to think of them as
                  "Tom", "Dick"
                  > or "Harry" because they were never known as such in their
                  lifetime. They
                  > were "Aulon" and "Fanor" and that is how they should be
                  remembered. Using
                  > the names by which they were known, places them in the proper
                  contest of
                  > the
                  > time and place where they lived in history. It helps recognize
                  their
                  > heritage and it helps explain the ancestral names used by your
                  family. If
                  > someone were to check other historical records they would not
                  find
                  "Tom",
                  > "Dick" or "Harry" they would in fact find "Aulon" and "Fanor".
                  >
                  > I recommend against the practice of trying to translate names. My
                  > grandfather was "Juri". That is how everyone knew him and I
                  remember them
                  > calling him "Juri" when I was growing up. He never was "George".
                  > "George"
                  > is out of context with my grandfather's time and the people who
                  know him
                  > when he was alive.
                  >
                  > Similarly, with place names. Names of places have changed over
                  time, not
                  > only the cities and towns but the countries. I prefer to use the
                  name of
                  > the location in general use at the time that the ancestral event
                  (birth,
                  > marriage or death) took place. So for some in my family it was
                  the
                  > Kingdom
                  > of Hungary, Austria-Hungarian Empire, Czecho-Slovakia,
                  Czechoslovakia, or
                  > the Republic of Slovakia. The modern day name for a location did
                  not
                  > exist
                  > one hundred or two hundred years ago.
                  >
                  > Please don't try to translate proper names or place names. I am
                  of the
                  > opinion that doing so changes history. After all, the study of
                  our
                  > ancestors is in fact the study of history. I believe it is only
                  proper to
                  > recognize people, places and events as they were known then. It
                  helps to
                  > explain how things have changed over time. And, it helps all of
                  us to
                  > remain true to history.
                  >
                  > Alternate opinions or ideas are appreciated.
                  > Plichta
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                  > On
                  > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                  > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 3:20 PM
                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                  >
                  > Is there an English equivalent to the given names: Aulon and
                  Fanor?
                  > Michael Mojher
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
                  email to
                  > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
                  email to
                  > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
                  email to
                  > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links






                  To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                  SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  Yahoo! Groups Links







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                  SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • Michael Mojher
                  Frank, I don t know if my experience at the Presov Archives was typical. Last October when I went there with my translator they said that you had to fill a
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jun 11, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Frank,
                    I don't know if my experience at the Presov Archives was typical. Last October when I went there with my translator they said that you had to fill a request form and then it could take up to 24 to 48 hours to make the volume available. This meant that it would take a day to make the request, plus up to two more to get. For someone touring waiting up to three days might be to long a wait.
                    On entering the Archive building we had to put on protective booties over our shoes. I wonder what they require when handling the material.
                    I think things have changed since your '96 trip.
                    I have always found the people at the City Halls most cooperative. They are a great source for knowing about the families that live there. They are the recorders of today's births, marriages and deaths. Fortunately for future searches the information is typed, so we won't have the problem of reading handwriting.
                    Michael Mojher
                    From: Frank R. Plichta
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 12:28 PM
                    Subject: RE: [S-R] Translation of Given Name


                    Access to the archives was without problem. I visited, Kos^ice, Pres^ov,
                    Bratislava and Vienna. The only place that I had any problems was in
                    Bratislava. They were the least helpful although I have to admit that I did
                    not have a specific family tie to those archives. I was fishing for others
                    with my surname without any specifics involved. I also went to the local
                    village church in Dlhe' nad Cirochou my maternal side of the family and to
                    the village hall in Kos^icka' Bela' my paternal side of the family.
                    Everyone was most helpful.

                    There is nothing like picking up those old ledger books from the late 1700's
                    and smelling the bygone years between the pages. Such a delight to see the
                    original entries.

                    I also took a laptop and hand scanner with me. The hand scanner took its
                    power from the laptop. In Kos^ice, Pres^ov and Vienna, they allowed me to
                    scan the pages in the ledger books. We are talking 1996, so this was a few
                    years ago. I must have been the first person to ask to scan the books.
                    They had not seen the hand scanner so they asked me to demonstrate to make
                    sure that I would not damage the books. I scanned the book and showed them
                    the image on my laptop screen and they were satisfied.

                    I had a problem back then, 1996 trying to connect my laptop to a phone line
                    to access email. The one telephone operator phone booth in Snina, said it
                    wasn't possible. I had the adapter for the phone lines but could not make
                    them understand how I was going to access "something" with the laptop
                    connected to the phone line. They wanted to dial the number and then let me
                    "talk". I told them I wasn't going to "talk" but I was going to "type" and
                    I needed to have my laptop dial the number and they said that wasn't
                    possible. I never did get my email in 1996. I'm sure things have changed
                    by now.

                    Frank Plichta

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                    Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 11:11 AM
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name

                    Frank,
                    You said that all of your research has been done on your two trips to
                    Slovakia. I was wondering how that went.
                    From my experience I have found that I was able to get more information
                    through the Family History Center's films than I could in Slovakia. The
                    easiest records to access are those kept at the town's City Hall. The
                    problem is they rarely go back beyond the 1880's. And my one day at the
                    Presov Archives was rather disappointing because of the paperwork and the
                    time it took to get access to the records.
                    Michael
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Frank
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 8:25 AM
                    Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name


                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Frank R. Plichta"
                    <frank.r.plichta@e...> wrote:
                    > Michael,
                    >
                    > I guess I missed the original request. I was commenting on the
                    more
                    narrow
                    > comment in your message that was simply:
                    > "Is there an English equivalent to the given names: Aulon and Fanor?
                    > Michael Mojher"
                    > I was unaware that someone had posted an earlier comment or the
                    context in
                    > which the request was made.
                    >
                    > You could not have expressed the issue better than in your message
                    below
                    > where you mention the use of Magyar [sic. Hungarian], Latin and
                    Slovak in
                    > various records. My genealogy records might show any or all of the
                    above,
                    > depending if the record at the archive is a state record or a
                    church
                    record.
                    > But in my family tree I strive to determine the name by which the
                    person
                    > would have been know by their family. But I would never
                    "translate"
                    a name
                    > into English. Of course, my family was easy since my father,
                    Frantisck, was
                    > born in Czechoslovakia. I'm the first person with an "English"
                    name, Frank.
                    > So I do not have the problem of trying to search records in the
                    United
                    > States. All of my research has been in Slovakia where I have
                    traveled twice
                    > to search out my family tree back to a marriage in 1766.
                    >
                    > Enjoy,
                    > Plichta

                    Michael and Frank,

                    The major cause of incorrect given names and place names in ship
                    manifests was the misspellings and mistranscribing.

                    In a 1913 ship manifest an Aulon Masrar (mistranscribed) was listed.
                    His name was actually written as Anton Maszar (H) on the second ship
                    manifest page.

                    On a 1907 ship manifest page three given names Ferenc(z) (Frank,
                    Francis) and two János (John) and two Antons (Anthony (Sk) were
                    listed.
                    Also two names spelled ?anosz or Fanorz ?
                    The Franks were written with a definite script letter F.
                    However, the Fanorz ? was written with same script letter J as the
                    János.
                    Expect your Fanor was actually the mistranscribed given name János.

                    My father was also named Ferencz (H)
                    My name is Frank
                    Meum nomen Franciscus est
                    Mon nom est François
                    Mi chiamo Francisco
                    Me llamo Francesco
                    Mam na imie Franciszek
                    Ime mi je Franjo
                    Volám sa Frantis^ek
                    Jmenuji se Frantis^ek
                    Ferencz nak hivnak
                    Ich heiße Franz
                    Mitt namn est Frans
                    M e H e 3 B y t b O p a H || (Cyrillic)
                    M e n e z v u t - F r a n ts



                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                    > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                    > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 7:02 PM
                    > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                    >
                    > Dear Frank,
                    > I agree with the spirit of your reply.
                    > In this case someone asked me to find out what the names may be
                    > equivalent to.
                    > The only problem I see with your view is that there are at
                    times
                    up to
                    > three different way a single name may appear in records. There were
                    the
                    > State spelling which could have been Hungarian, the Church which
                    could be in
                    > Latin and the local vernacular which could have been Slovak. That
                    being the
                    > case, which one would you choose to use on your family tree?
                    > Michael Mojher
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Frank R. Plichta
                    > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 1:50 PM
                    > Subject: RE: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                    >
                    >
                    > I don't have an answer for your question but I do have some
                    thoughts about
                    > translating names.
                    >
                    > If your ancestors were know as "Aulon" or "Fanor", than that is
                    what their
                    > names were. It doesn't make sense to me to think of them as
                    "Tom", "Dick"
                    > or "Harry" because they were never known as such in their
                    lifetime. They
                    > were "Aulon" and "Fanor" and that is how they should be
                    remembered. Using
                    > the names by which they were known, places them in the proper
                    contest of
                    > the
                    > time and place where they lived in history. It helps recognize
                    their
                    > heritage and it helps explain the ancestral names used by your
                    family. If
                    > someone were to check other historical records they would not
                    find
                    "Tom",
                    > "Dick" or "Harry" they would in fact find "Aulon" and "Fanor".
                    >
                    > I recommend against the practice of trying to translate names. My
                    > grandfather was "Juri". That is how everyone knew him and I
                    remember them
                    > calling him "Juri" when I was growing up. He never was "George".
                    > "George"
                    > is out of context with my grandfather's time and the people who
                    know him
                    > when he was alive.
                    >
                    > Similarly, with place names. Names of places have changed over
                    time, not
                    > only the cities and towns but the countries. I prefer to use the
                    name of
                    > the location in general use at the time that the ancestral event
                    (birth,
                    > marriage or death) took place. So for some in my family it was
                    the
                    > Kingdom
                    > of Hungary, Austria-Hungarian Empire, Czecho-Slovakia,
                    Czechoslovakia, or
                    > the Republic of Slovakia. The modern day name for a location did
                    not
                    > exist
                    > one hundred or two hundred years ago.
                    >
                    > Please don't try to translate proper names or place names. I am
                    of the
                    > opinion that doing so changes history. After all, the study of
                    our
                    > ancestors is in fact the study of history. I believe it is only
                    proper to
                    > recognize people, places and events as they were known then. It
                    helps to
                    > explain how things have changed over time. And, it helps all of
                    us to
                    > remain true to history.
                    >
                    > Alternate opinions or ideas are appreciated.
                    > Plichta
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                    > On
                    > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                    > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 3:20 PM
                    > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                    >
                    > Is there an English equivalent to the given names: Aulon and
                    Fanor?
                    > Michael Mojher
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
                    email to
                    > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
                    email to
                    > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
                    email to
                    > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links






                    To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                    SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    Yahoo! Groups Links







                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                    To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                    SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    Yahoo! Groups Links









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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Frank R. Plichta
                    Michael, I remember the booties. The archives were spic and span clean. Not a dust anywhere. They did limit me to one book at a time but I could turn one in
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jun 11, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Michael,

                      I remember the booties. The archives were spic and span clean. Not a dust
                      anywhere. They did limit me to one book at a time but I could turn one in
                      and immediately get another. There were about 5 other local folks doing
                      research at the same time. Everyone was quite and stayed busy with their
                      work. I think I paid a small fee like 20 SK for each book. But they held
                      the books at the desk for me because several times I needed to go back to
                      check on another line in the family. Then again, 1996 was the dark ages.
                      My earlier trip in 1984 was spent mostly with family. I met more than 100
                      relatives on both Mom and Dad's sides of the family. On that first trip, it
                      kept me busy just recording all of the recent history since my Dad had
                      migrated. It was later in 1996 that I returned to go back into history and
                      eventually traced both families, on one sides to a marriage in 1766 and on
                      the other to 1780.

                      Family in Slovakia have asked me to return, but at age 64, I've been there
                      and done that and now have other issues that are keeping me busy. May
                      someday???

                      Frank Plichta

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                      Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 4:07 PM
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name

                      Frank,
                      I don't know if my experience at the Presov Archives was typical. Last
                      October when I went there with my translator they said that you had to fill
                      a request form and then it could take up to 24 to 48 hours to make the
                      volume available. This meant that it would take a day to make the request,
                      plus up to two more to get. For someone touring waiting up to three days
                      might be to long a wait.
                      On entering the Archive building we had to put on protective booties
                      over our shoes. I wonder what they require when handling the material.
                      I think things have changed since your '96 trip.
                      I have always found the people at the City Halls most cooperative. They
                      are a great source for knowing about the families that live there. They are
                      the recorders of today's births, marriages and deaths. Fortunately for
                      future searches the information is typed, so we won't have the problem of
                      reading handwriting.
                      Michael Mojher
                      From: Frank R. Plichta
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 12:28 PM
                      Subject: RE: [S-R] Translation of Given Name


                      Access to the archives was without problem. I visited, Kos^ice, Pres^ov,
                      Bratislava and Vienna. The only place that I had any problems was in
                      Bratislava. They were the least helpful although I have to admit that I
                      did
                      not have a specific family tie to those archives. I was fishing for
                      others
                      with my surname without any specifics involved. I also went to the local
                      village church in Dlhe' nad Cirochou my maternal side of the family and to
                      the village hall in Kos^icka' Bela' my paternal side of the family.
                      Everyone was most helpful.

                      There is nothing like picking up those old ledger books from the late
                      1700's
                      and smelling the bygone years between the pages. Such a delight to see
                      the
                      original entries.

                      I also took a laptop and hand scanner with me. The hand scanner took its
                      power from the laptop. In Kos^ice, Pres^ov and Vienna, they allowed me to
                      scan the pages in the ledger books. We are talking 1996, so this was a
                      few
                      years ago. I must have been the first person to ask to scan the books.
                      They had not seen the hand scanner so they asked me to demonstrate to make
                      sure that I would not damage the books. I scanned the book and showed
                      them
                      the image on my laptop screen and they were satisfied.

                      I had a problem back then, 1996 trying to connect my laptop to a phone
                      line
                      to access email. The one telephone operator phone booth in Snina, said it
                      wasn't possible. I had the adapter for the phone lines but could not make
                      them understand how I was going to access "something" with the laptop
                      connected to the phone line. They wanted to dial the number and then let
                      me
                      "talk". I told them I wasn't going to "talk" but I was going to "type"
                      and
                      I needed to have my laptop dial the number and they said that wasn't
                      possible. I never did get my email in 1996. I'm sure things have changed
                      by now.

                      Frank Plichta

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                      On
                      Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                      Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 11:11 AM
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name

                      Frank,
                      You said that all of your research has been done on your two trips to
                      Slovakia. I was wondering how that went.
                      From my experience I have found that I was able to get more
                      information
                      through the Family History Center's films than I could in Slovakia. The
                      easiest records to access are those kept at the town's City Hall. The
                      problem is they rarely go back beyond the 1880's. And my one day at the
                      Presov Archives was rather disappointing because of the paperwork and the
                      time it took to get access to the records.
                      Michael
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Frank
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 8:25 AM
                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name


                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Frank R. Plichta"
                      <frank.r.plichta@e...> wrote:
                      > Michael,
                      >
                      > I guess I missed the original request. I was commenting on the
                      more
                      narrow
                      > comment in your message that was simply:
                      > "Is there an English equivalent to the given names: Aulon and Fanor?
                      > Michael Mojher"
                      > I was unaware that someone had posted an earlier comment or the
                      context in
                      > which the request was made.
                      >
                      > You could not have expressed the issue better than in your message
                      below
                      > where you mention the use of Magyar [sic. Hungarian], Latin and
                      Slovak in
                      > various records. My genealogy records might show any or all of the
                      above,
                      > depending if the record at the archive is a state record or a
                      church
                      record.
                      > But in my family tree I strive to determine the name by which the
                      person
                      > would have been know by their family. But I would never
                      "translate"
                      a name
                      > into English. Of course, my family was easy since my father,
                      Frantisck, was
                      > born in Czechoslovakia. I'm the first person with an "English"
                      name, Frank.
                      > So I do not have the problem of trying to search records in the
                      United
                      > States. All of my research has been in Slovakia where I have
                      traveled twice
                      > to search out my family tree back to a marriage in 1766.
                      >
                      > Enjoy,
                      > Plichta

                      Michael and Frank,

                      The major cause of incorrect given names and place names in ship
                      manifests was the misspellings and mistranscribing.

                      In a 1913 ship manifest an Aulon Masrar (mistranscribed) was listed.
                      His name was actually written as Anton Maszar (H) on the second ship
                      manifest page.

                      On a 1907 ship manifest page three given names Ferenc(z) (Frank,
                      Francis) and two János (John) and two Antons (Anthony (Sk) were
                      listed.
                      Also two names spelled ?anosz or Fanorz ?
                      The Franks were written with a definite script letter F.
                      However, the Fanorz ? was written with same script letter J as the
                      János.
                      Expect your Fanor was actually the mistranscribed given name János.

                      My father was also named Ferencz (H)
                      My name is Frank
                      Meum nomen Franciscus est
                      Mon nom est François
                      Mi chiamo Francisco
                      Me llamo Francesco
                      Mam na imie Franciszek
                      Ime mi je Franjo
                      Volám sa Frantis^ek
                      Jmenuji se Frantis^ek
                      Ferencz nak hivnak
                      Ich heiße Franz
                      Mitt namn est Frans
                      M e H e 3 B y t b O p a H || (Cyrillic)
                      M e n e z v u t - F r a n ts



                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                      > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                      > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 7:02 PM
                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                      >
                      > Dear Frank,
                      > I agree with the spirit of your reply.
                      > In this case someone asked me to find out what the names may be
                      > equivalent to.
                      > The only problem I see with your view is that there are at
                      times
                      up to
                      > three different way a single name may appear in records. There were
                      the
                      > State spelling which could have been Hungarian, the Church which
                      could be in
                      > Latin and the local vernacular which could have been Slovak. That
                      being the
                      > case, which one would you choose to use on your family tree?
                      > Michael Mojher
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Frank R. Plichta
                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 1:50 PM
                      > Subject: RE: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                      >
                      >
                      > I don't have an answer for your question but I do have some
                      thoughts about
                      > translating names.
                      >
                      > If your ancestors were know as "Aulon" or "Fanor", than that is
                      what their
                      > names were. It doesn't make sense to me to think of them as
                      "Tom", "Dick"
                      > or "Harry" because they were never known as such in their
                      lifetime. They
                      > were "Aulon" and "Fanor" and that is how they should be
                      remembered. Using
                      > the names by which they were known, places them in the proper
                      contest of
                      > the
                      > time and place where they lived in history. It helps recognize
                      their
                      > heritage and it helps explain the ancestral names used by your
                      family. If
                      > someone were to check other historical records they would not
                      find
                      "Tom",
                      > "Dick" or "Harry" they would in fact find "Aulon" and "Fanor".
                      >
                      > I recommend against the practice of trying to translate names. My
                      > grandfather was "Juri". That is how everyone knew him and I
                      remember them
                      > calling him "Juri" when I was growing up. He never was "George".
                      > "George"
                      > is out of context with my grandfather's time and the people who
                      know him
                      > when he was alive.
                      >
                      > Similarly, with place names. Names of places have changed over
                      time, not
                      > only the cities and towns but the countries. I prefer to use the
                      name of
                      > the location in general use at the time that the ancestral event
                      (birth,
                      > marriage or death) took place. So for some in my family it was
                      the
                      > Kingdom
                      > of Hungary, Austria-Hungarian Empire, Czecho-Slovakia,
                      Czechoslovakia, or
                      > the Republic of Slovakia. The modern day name for a location did
                      not
                      > exist
                      > one hundred or two hundred years ago.
                      >
                      > Please don't try to translate proper names or place names. I am
                      of the
                      > opinion that doing so changes history. After all, the study of
                      our
                      > ancestors is in fact the study of history. I believe it is only
                      proper to
                      > recognize people, places and events as they were known then. It
                      helps to
                      > explain how things have changed over time. And, it helps all of
                      us to
                      > remain true to history.
                      >
                      > Alternate opinions or ideas are appreciated.
                      > Plichta
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                      > On
                      > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                      > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 3:20 PM
                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                      >
                      > Is there an English equivalent to the given names: Aulon and
                      Fanor?
                      > Michael Mojher
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
                      email to
                      > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
                      email to
                      > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
                      email to
                      > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links






                      To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                      SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      Yahoo! Groups Links







                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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                      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                      SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                      To unsubscribe from this group, go to
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                    • Dr. Joe Q.
                      When we visited the Presov archives in 2001, the shoe covers were required. You could handle the books with bare hands, although I think that a requirement to
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jun 12, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        When we visited the Presov archives in 2001, the shoe covers were
                        required. You could handle the books with bare hands, although I think
                        that a requirement to wear gloves would be a nice idea. I do not know
                        if there was a requirement to order a book days ahead.

                        Dr. "Q"

                        Frank R. Plichta wrote:

                        >Michael,
                        >
                        >I remember the booties. The archives were spic and span clean. Not a dust
                        >anywhere. They did limit me to one book at a time but I could turn one in
                        >and immediately get another. There were about 5 other local folks doing
                        >research at the same time. Everyone was quite and stayed busy with their
                        >work. I think I paid a small fee like 20 SK for each book. But they held
                        >the books at the desk for me because several times I needed to go back to
                        >check on another line in the family. Then again, 1996 was the dark ages.
                        >My earlier trip in 1984 was spent mostly with family. I met more than 100
                        >relatives on both Mom and Dad's sides of the family. On that first trip, it
                        >kept me busy just recording all of the recent history since my Dad had
                        >migrated. It was later in 1996 that I returned to go back into history and
                        >eventually traced both families, on one sides to a marriage in 1766 and on
                        >the other to 1780.
                        >
                        >Family in Slovakia have asked me to return, but at age 64, I've been there
                        >and done that and now have other issues that are keeping me busy. May
                        >someday???
                        >
                        >Frank Plichta
                        >
                        >-----Original Message-----
                        >From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                        >Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                        >Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 4:07 PM
                        >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        >Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                        >
                        >Frank,
                        > I don't know if my experience at the Presov Archives was typical. Last
                        >October when I went there with my translator they said that you had to fill
                        >a request form and then it could take up to 24 to 48 hours to make the
                        >volume available. This meant that it would take a day to make the request,
                        >plus up to two more to get. For someone touring waiting up to three days
                        >might be to long a wait.
                        > On entering the Archive building we had to put on protective booties
                        >over our shoes. I wonder what they require when handling the material.
                        > I think things have changed since your '96 trip.
                        > I have always found the people at the City Halls most cooperative. They
                        >are a great source for knowing about the families that live there. They are
                        >the recorders of today's births, marriages and deaths. Fortunately for
                        >future searches the information is typed, so we won't have the problem of
                        >reading handwriting.
                        >Michael Mojher
                        > From: Frank R. Plichta
                        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 12:28 PM
                        > Subject: RE: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                        >
                        >
                        > Access to the archives was without problem. I visited, Kos^ice, Pres^ov,
                        > Bratislava and Vienna. The only place that I had any problems was in
                        > Bratislava. They were the least helpful although I have to admit that I
                        >did
                        > not have a specific family tie to those archives. I was fishing for
                        >others
                        > with my surname without any specifics involved. I also went to the local
                        > village church in Dlhe' nad Cirochou my maternal side of the family and to
                        > the village hall in Kos^icka' Bela' my paternal side of the family.
                        > Everyone was most helpful.
                        >
                        > There is nothing like picking up those old ledger books from the late
                        >1700's
                        > and smelling the bygone years between the pages. Such a delight to see
                        >the
                        > original entries.
                        >
                        > I also took a laptop and hand scanner with me. The hand scanner took its
                        > power from the laptop. In Kos^ice, Pres^ov and Vienna, they allowed me to
                        > scan the pages in the ledger books. We are talking 1996, so this was a
                        >few
                        > years ago. I must have been the first person to ask to scan the books.
                        > They had not seen the hand scanner so they asked me to demonstrate to make
                        > sure that I would not damage the books. I scanned the book and showed
                        >them
                        > the image on my laptop screen and they were satisfied.
                        >
                        > I had a problem back then, 1996 trying to connect my laptop to a phone
                        >line
                        > to access email. The one telephone operator phone booth in Snina, said it
                        > wasn't possible. I had the adapter for the phone lines but could not make
                        > them understand how I was going to access "something" with the laptop
                        > connected to the phone line. They wanted to dial the number and then let
                        >me
                        > "talk". I told them I wasn't going to "talk" but I was going to "type"
                        >and
                        > I needed to have my laptop dial the number and they said that wasn't
                        > possible. I never did get my email in 1996. I'm sure things have changed
                        > by now.
                        >
                        > Frank Plichta
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                        >On
                        > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                        > Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 11:11 AM
                        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                        >
                        > Frank,
                        > You said that all of your research has been done on your two trips to
                        > Slovakia. I was wondering how that went.
                        > From my experience I have found that I was able to get more
                        >information
                        > through the Family History Center's films than I could in Slovakia. The
                        > easiest records to access are those kept at the town's City Hall. The
                        > problem is they rarely go back beyond the 1880's. And my one day at the
                        > Presov Archives was rather disappointing because of the paperwork and the
                        > time it took to get access to the records.
                        > Michael
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: Frank
                        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 8:25 AM
                        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Frank R. Plichta"
                        > <frank.r.plichta@e...> wrote:
                        > > Michael,
                        > >
                        > > I guess I missed the original request. I was commenting on the
                        > more
                        > narrow
                        > > comment in your message that was simply:
                        > > "Is there an English equivalent to the given names: Aulon and Fanor?
                        > > Michael Mojher"
                        > > I was unaware that someone had posted an earlier comment or the
                        > context in
                        > > which the request was made.
                        > >
                        > > You could not have expressed the issue better than in your message
                        > below
                        > > where you mention the use of Magyar [sic. Hungarian], Latin and
                        > Slovak in
                        > > various records. My genealogy records might show any or all of the
                        > above,
                        > > depending if the record at the archive is a state record or a
                        > church
                        > record.
                        > > But in my family tree I strive to determine the name by which the
                        > person
                        > > would have been know by their family. But I would never
                        > "translate"
                        > a name
                        > > into English. Of course, my family was easy since my father,
                        > Frantisck, was
                        > > born in Czechoslovakia. I'm the first person with an "English"
                        > name, Frank.
                        > > So I do not have the problem of trying to search records in the
                        > United
                        > > States. All of my research has been in Slovakia where I have
                        > traveled twice
                        > > to search out my family tree back to a marriage in 1766.
                        > >
                        > > Enjoy,
                        > > Plichta
                        >
                        > Michael and Frank,
                        >
                        > The major cause of incorrect given names and place names in ship
                        > manifests was the misspellings and mistranscribing.
                        >
                        > In a 1913 ship manifest an Aulon Masrar (mistranscribed) was listed.
                        > His name was actually written as Anton Maszar (H) on the second ship
                        > manifest page.
                        >
                        > On a 1907 ship manifest page three given names Ferenc(z) (Frank,
                        > Francis) and two János (John) and two Antons (Anthony (Sk) were
                        > listed.
                        > Also two names spelled ?anosz or Fanorz ?
                        > The Franks were written with a definite script letter F.
                        > However, the Fanorz ? was written with same script letter J as the
                        > János.
                        > Expect your Fanor was actually the mistranscribed given name János.
                        >
                        > My father was also named Ferencz (H)
                        > My name is Frank
                        > Meum nomen Franciscus est
                        > Mon nom est François
                        > Mi chiamo Francisco
                        > Me llamo Francesco
                        > Mam na imie Franciszek
                        > Ime mi je Franjo
                        > Volám sa Frantis^ek
                        > Jmenuji se Frantis^ek
                        > Ferencz nak hivnak
                        > Ich heiße Franz
                        > Mitt namn est Frans
                        > M e H e 3 B y t b O p a H || (Cyrillic)
                        > M e n e z v u t - F r a n ts
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                        > > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                        > > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 7:02 PM
                        > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                        > >
                        > > Dear Frank,
                        > > I agree with the spirit of your reply.
                        > > In this case someone asked me to find out what the names may be
                        > > equivalent to.
                        > > The only problem I see with your view is that there are at
                        > times
                        > up to
                        > > three different way a single name may appear in records. There were
                        > the
                        > > State spelling which could have been Hungarian, the Church which
                        > could be in
                        > > Latin and the local vernacular which could have been Slovak. That
                        > being the
                        > > case, which one would you choose to use on your family tree?
                        > > Michael Mojher
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: Frank R. Plichta
                        > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 1:50 PM
                        > > Subject: RE: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > I don't have an answer for your question but I do have some
                        > thoughts about
                        > > translating names.
                        > >
                        > > If your ancestors were know as "Aulon" or "Fanor", than that is
                        > what their
                        > > names were. It doesn't make sense to me to think of them as
                        > "Tom", "Dick"
                        > > or "Harry" because they were never known as such in their
                        > lifetime. They
                        > > were "Aulon" and "Fanor" and that is how they should be
                        > remembered. Using
                        > > the names by which they were known, places them in the proper
                        > contest of
                        > > the
                        > > time and place where they lived in history. It helps recognize
                        > their
                        > > heritage and it helps explain the ancestral names used by your
                        > family. If
                        > > someone were to check other historical records they would not
                        > find
                        > "Tom",
                        > > "Dick" or "Harry" they would in fact find "Aulon" and "Fanor".
                        > >
                        > > I recommend against the practice of trying to translate names. My
                        > > grandfather was "Juri". That is how everyone knew him and I
                        > remember them
                        > > calling him "Juri" when I was growing up. He never was "George".
                        > > "George"
                        > > is out of context with my grandfather's time and the people who
                        > know him
                        > > when he was alive.
                        > >
                        > > Similarly, with place names. Names of places have changed over
                        > time, not
                        > > only the cities and towns but the countries. I prefer to use the
                        > name of
                        > > the location in general use at the time that the ancestral event
                        > (birth,
                        > > marriage or death) took place. So for some in my family it was
                        > the
                        > > Kingdom
                        > > of Hungary, Austria-Hungarian Empire, Czecho-Slovakia,
                        > Czechoslovakia, or
                        > > the Republic of Slovakia. The modern day name for a location did
                        > not
                        > > exist
                        > > one hundred or two hundred years ago.
                        > >
                        > > Please don't try to translate proper names or place names. I am
                        > of the
                        > > opinion that doing so changes history. After all, the study of
                        > our
                        > > ancestors is in fact the study of history. I believe it is only
                        > proper to
                        > > recognize people, places and events as they were known then. It
                        > helps to
                        > > explain how things have changed over time. And, it helps all of
                        > us to
                        > > remain true to history.
                        > >
                        > > Alternate opinions or ideas are appreciated.
                        > > Plichta
                        > >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                        > > On
                        > > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                        > > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 3:20 PM
                        > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                        > >
                        > > Is there an English equivalent to the given names: Aulon and
                        > Fanor?
                        > > Michael Mojher
                        >
                        >
                      • Gil Kubancsek
                        I had a very pleasant and successful visit to the Banska Bystrica Archives in 2001. I met with Mgr. Anna Kovacova on Saturday morning. My cousin from Selce
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jun 12, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I had a very pleasant and successful visit to the Banska Bystrica Archives in 2001. I met with Mgr. Anna Kovacova on Saturday morning. My cousin from Selce had called several days earlier and made the appoinement. After a short discussion of my interests, Mgr. Kovacova instructed two memebrs of her staff to bring the original registers for Banska Bystrica, Selce and Dubova to her office. For approximately three hours we reviewed the registers and obtained family history data from 1711 in Dubova to Banska Bystrica in 1902 when my grandfather left for America.

                          During the meeting my cousin provided outstanding translation services. The official cost was 50SK for each register retrieved from the archives and reviewed. Although Anna Kovacova did not require payment for her services, I offered compensation for her time ( three hours at the senior archivist hourly rate) and she accepted.

                          There were no shoe covers required in Anna Kovacova's office and I saw no gloves worn by her or her staff in handling the registers.

                          All in all it was a very enjoyable and productive visit.

                          Gil


                          "Dr. Joe Q." <DoctorQ@...> wrote:
                          When we visited the Presov archives in 2001, the shoe covers were
                          required. You could handle the books with bare hands, although I think
                          that a requirement to wear gloves would be a nice idea. I do not know
                          if there was a requirement to order a book days ahead.

                          Dr. "Q"

                          Frank R. Plichta wrote:

                          >Michael,
                          >
                          >I remember the booties. The archives were spic and span clean. Not a dust
                          >anywhere. They did limit me to one book at a time but I could turn one in
                          >and immediately get another. There were about 5 other local folks doing
                          >research at the same time. Everyone was quite and stayed busy with their
                          >work. I think I paid a small fee like 20 SK for each book. But they held
                          >the books at the desk for me because several times I needed to go back to
                          >check on another line in the family. Then again, 1996 was the dark ages.
                          >My earlier trip in 1984 was spent mostly with family. I met more than 100
                          >relatives on both Mom and Dad's sides of the family. On that first trip, it
                          >kept me busy just recording all of the recent history since my Dad had
                          >migrated. It was later in 1996 that I returned to go back into history and
                          >eventually traced both families, on one sides to a marriage in 1766 and on
                          >the other to 1780.
                          >
                          >Family in Slovakia have asked me to return, but at age 64, I've been there
                          >and done that and now have other issues that are keeping me busy. May
                          >someday???
                          >
                          >Frank Plichta
                          >
                          >-----Original Message-----
                          >From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                          >Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                          >Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 4:07 PM
                          >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          >Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                          >
                          >Frank,
                          > I don't know if my experience at the Presov Archives was typical. Last
                          >October when I went there with my translator they said that you had to fill
                          >a request form and then it could take up to 24 to 48 hours to make the
                          >volume available. This meant that it would take a day to make the request,
                          >plus up to two more to get. For someone touring waiting up to three days
                          >might be to long a wait.
                          > On entering the Archive building we had to put on protective booties
                          >over our shoes. I wonder what they require when handling the material.
                          > I think things have changed since your '96 trip.
                          > I have always found the people at the City Halls most cooperative. They
                          >are a great source for knowing about the families that live there. They are
                          >the recorders of today's births, marriages and deaths. Fortunately for
                          >future searches the information is typed, so we won't have the problem of
                          >reading handwriting.
                          >Michael Mojher
                          > From: Frank R. Plichta
                          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 12:28 PM
                          > Subject: RE: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                          >
                          >
                          > Access to the archives was without problem. I visited, Kos^ice, Pres^ov,
                          > Bratislava and Vienna. The only place that I had any problems was in
                          > Bratislava. They were the least helpful although I have to admit that I
                          >did
                          > not have a specific family tie to those archives. I was fishing for
                          >others
                          > with my surname without any specifics involved. I also went to the local
                          > village church in Dlhe' nad Cirochou my maternal side of the family and to
                          > the village hall in Kos^icka' Bela' my paternal side of the family.
                          > Everyone was most helpful.
                          >
                          > There is nothing like picking up those old ledger books from the late
                          >1700's
                          > and smelling the bygone years between the pages. Such a delight to see
                          >the
                          > original entries.
                          >
                          > I also took a laptop and hand scanner with me. The hand scanner took its
                          > power from the laptop. In Kos^ice, Pres^ov and Vienna, they allowed me to
                          > scan the pages in the ledger books. We are talking 1996, so this was a
                          >few
                          > years ago. I must have been the first person to ask to scan the books.
                          > They had not seen the hand scanner so they asked me to demonstrate to make
                          > sure that I would not damage the books. I scanned the book and showed
                          >them
                          > the image on my laptop screen and they were satisfied.
                          >
                          > I had a problem back then, 1996 trying to connect my laptop to a phone
                          >line
                          > to access email. The one telephone operator phone booth in Snina, said it
                          > wasn't possible. I had the adapter for the phone lines but could not make
                          > them understand how I was going to access "something" with the laptop
                          > connected to the phone line. They wanted to dial the number and then let
                          >me
                          > "talk". I told them I wasn't going to "talk" but I was going to "type"
                          >and
                          > I needed to have my laptop dial the number and they said that wasn't
                          > possible. I never did get my email in 1996. I'm sure things have changed
                          > by now.
                          >
                          > Frank Plichta
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                          >On
                          > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                          > Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 11:11 AM
                          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                          >
                          > Frank,
                          > You said that all of your research has been done on your two trips to
                          > Slovakia. I was wondering how that went.
                          > From my experience I have found that I was able to get more
                          >information
                          > through the Family History Center's films than I could in Slovakia. The
                          > easiest records to access are those kept at the town's City Hall. The
                          > problem is they rarely go back beyond the 1880's. And my one day at the
                          > Presov Archives was rather disappointing because of the paperwork and the
                          > time it took to get access to the records.
                          > Michael
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Frank
                          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 8:25 AM
                          > Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Frank R. Plichta"
                          > <frank.r.plichta@e...> wrote:
                          > > Michael,
                          > >
                          > > I guess I missed the original request. I was commenting on the
                          > more
                          > narrow
                          > > comment in your message that was simply:
                          > > "Is there an English equivalent to the given names: Aulon and Fanor?
                          > > Michael Mojher"
                          > > I was unaware that someone had posted an earlier comment or the
                          > context in
                          > > which the request was made.
                          > >
                          > > You could not have expressed the issue better than in your message
                          > below
                          > > where you mention the use of Magyar [sic. Hungarian], Latin and
                          > Slovak in
                          > > various records. My genealogy records might show any or all of the
                          > above,
                          > > depending if the record at the archive is a state record or a
                          > church
                          > record.
                          > > But in my family tree I strive to determine the name by which the
                          > person
                          > > would have been know by their family. But I would never
                          > "translate"
                          > a name
                          > > into English. Of course, my family was easy since my father,
                          > Frantisck, was
                          > > born in Czechoslovakia. I'm the first person with an "English"
                          > name, Frank.
                          > > So I do not have the problem of trying to search records in the
                          > United
                          > > States. All of my research has been in Slovakia where I have
                          > traveled twice
                          > > to search out my family tree back to a marriage in 1766.
                          > >
                          > > Enjoy,
                          > > Plichta
                          >
                          > Michael and Frank,
                          >
                          > The major cause of incorrect given names and place names in ship
                          > manifests was the misspellings and mistranscribing.
                          >
                          > In a 1913 ship manifest an Aulon Masrar (mistranscribed) was listed.
                          > His name was actually written as Anton Maszar (H) on the second ship
                          > manifest page.
                          >
                          > On a 1907 ship manifest page three given names Ferenc(z) (Frank,
                          > Francis) and two János (John) and two Antons (Anthony (Sk) were
                          > listed.
                          > Also two names spelled ?anosz or Fanorz ?
                          > The Franks were written with a definite script letter F.
                          > However, the Fanorz ? was written with same script letter J as the
                          > János.
                          > Expect your Fanor was actually the mistranscribed given name János.
                          >
                          > My father was also named Ferencz (H)
                          > My name is Frank
                          > Meum nomen Franciscus est
                          > Mon nom est François
                          > Mi chiamo Francisco
                          > Me llamo Francesco
                          > Mam na imie Franciszek
                          > Ime mi je Franjo
                          > Volám sa Frantis^ek
                          > Jmenuji se Frantis^ek
                          > Ferencz nak hivnak
                          > Ich heiße Franz
                          > Mitt namn est Frans
                          > M e H e 3 B y t b O p a H || (Cyrillic)
                          > M e n e z v u t - F r a n ts
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                          > > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                          > > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 7:02 PM
                          > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                          > >
                          > > Dear Frank,
                          > > I agree with the spirit of your reply.
                          > > In this case someone asked me to find out what the names may be
                          > > equivalent to.
                          > > The only problem I see with your view is that there are at
                          > times
                          > up to
                          > > three different way a single name may appear in records. There were
                          > the
                          > > State spelling which could have been Hungarian, the Church which
                          > could be in
                          > > Latin and the local vernacular which could have been Slovak. That
                          > being the
                          > > case, which one would you choose to use on your family tree?
                          > > Michael Mojher
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: Frank R. Plichta
                          > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 1:50 PM
                          > > Subject: RE: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > I don't have an answer for your question but I do have some
                          > thoughts about
                          > > translating names.
                          > >
                          > > If your ancestors were know as "Aulon" or "Fanor", than that is
                          > what their
                          > > names were. It doesn't make sense to me to think of them as
                          > "Tom", "Dick"
                          > > or "Harry" because they were never known as such in their
                          > lifetime. They
                          > > were "Aulon" and "Fanor" and that is how they should be
                          > remembered. Using
                          > > the names by which they were known, places them in the proper
                          > contest of
                          > > the
                          > > time and place where they lived in history. It helps recognize
                          > their
                          > > heritage and it helps explain the ancestral names used by your
                          > family. If
                          > > someone were to check other historical records they would not
                          > find
                          > "Tom",
                          > > "Dick" or "Harry" they would in fact find "Aulon" and "Fanor".
                          > >
                          > > I recommend against the practice of trying to translate names. My
                          > > grandfather was "Juri". That is how everyone knew him and I
                          > remember them
                          > > calling him "Juri" when I was growing up. He never was "George".
                          > > "George"
                          > > is out of context with my grandfather's time and the people who
                          > know him
                          > > when he was alive.
                          > >
                          > > Similarly, with place names. Names of places have changed over
                          > time, not
                          > > only the cities and towns but the countries. I prefer to use the
                          > name of
                          > > the location in general use at the time that the ancestral event
                          > (birth,
                          > > marriage or death) took place. So for some in my family it was
                          > the
                          > > Kingdom
                          > > of Hungary, Austria-Hungarian Empire, Czecho-Slovakia,
                          > Czechoslovakia, or
                          > > the Republic of Slovakia. The modern day name for a location did
                          > not
                          > > exist
                          > > one hundred or two hundred years ago.
                          > >
                          > > Please don't try to translate proper names or place names. I am
                          > of the
                          > > opinion that doing so changes history. After all, the study of
                          > our
                          > > ancestors is in fact the study of history. I believe it is only
                          > proper to
                          > > recognize people, places and events as they were known then. It
                          > helps to
                          > > explain how things have changed over time. And, it helps all of
                          > us to
                          > > remain true to history.
                          > >
                          > > Alternate opinions or ideas are appreciated.
                          > > Plichta
                          > >
                          > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                          > > On
                          > > Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                          > > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 3:20 PM
                          > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Subject: [S-R] Translation of Given Name
                          > >
                          > > Is there an English equivalent to the given names: Aulon and
                          > Fanor?
                          > > Michael Mojher
                          >
                          >



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