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Transliteration vs. Translation

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  • Bill Tarkulich
    Hi Frank, What is the difference between Transliteration and Translation? Can you provide an example? Thanks! Bill
    Message 1 of 4 , Jun 3, 2005
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      Hi Frank,
      What is the difference between Transliteration and Translation?
      Can you provide an example?
      Thanks!
      Bill

      >From: Frank <frankur@...>
      >Date: Fri Jun 03 11:07:35 CDT 2005
      >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [S-R] Re: Surname Wrobel from Sloboda Galicija

      >Karen E
      >
      >In the 1906 ship manifest page four surnames Wrobel were listed.
      >No. 16 Wasyl Wrobel age 34
      >No. 17 Katarzyna Wrobel age 10
      >No. 19 Katarzyna Wrobel age 17
      >No. 20 Anastazia Wrobel age 16
      >
      >No. 16 and No. 17 were deported and both were from Cieplice (Dolne)
      >Galicija
      >No. 19 and No. 20 were from Sloboda Galicija
      >No. 19 was going to her brother Iwan Wrobel at 619 N. Hancock St
      >Philadephia PA
      >Expect that their Last Residences Cieplice and Sloboda were located
      >near one another in former Austrian-Poland.
      >Sloboda Duza is located 151 miles SSE of Warszawa and Cieplice Dolne
      >is located 154 miles SSE of Warszawa and both are still located in
      >Poland.
      >
      >Austria's presence in Galicia began in 1769, when Hapsburg troops
      >occupied the 16 Polish-held towns and villages in the Spis^ region on
      >the southern slopes of the Carpathians.
      >As a result of the partition of Poland by Russsia, Prussia and Austria
      >in 1772, Austria was awarded 31,600 sqaure miles with 2.6 million
      >inhabitants in Rus' (Galicia) and parts of Volhynia.
      >The new Austrian acquisition was named The Kingdom of
      >Galicia-Lodomeria, recalling the title in the Hungarian crown , whose
      >origins went back to 12th century claim of Hungary's kings to
      >medieval Rus' principalities of Galicia and Volhynia (Lodomeria).
      >
      >>From the late 1700s until the end of WWI, Poland did not exist as a
      >country. It was divided among the Russian, German (Prussian), and
      >Austrian Empires. These divisions were known as Partitions.
      >There was Russian-Poland,German-Poland,and Austrian-Poland.
      >Austrian-Poland
      >
      >By the First Partition of Poland, Austria had obtained Galicia
      >(consisting of Red Russia, the city of Lemberg [Lw?w], a part of
      >western Podolia, and southern Little Poland).
      >Austria did not take any Polish land in the Second Partition.
      >During the Third Partition of Poland, Austria took the remainder of
      >Little Poland and Krak?w.
      >
      >The southern Polish territories around Krak?w and Lw?w were
      >incorporated into the Austrian Empire and renamed "Galicia".
      >
      >Galicia was formerly a Austrian Crownland and part of Austro-Hungarian
      >Monarchy(1867-1918). Sometimes referred to as Austrian Poland.
      >Other names for the area were Galicja (Polish), Galizien (German),
      >Halychyna (Ukrainian) and Rus Halicka (Polish).
      >
      >In 1918, Galicia was annexed to Poland as "Malopolska" (Little
      >Poland).
      >After the 1939 partition of Poland by Germany and Russia, East Galicia
      >became part of Ukraine (within the Soviet Union) while West Galicia
      >remained in Poland.
      >Its former territories are now shared between southern Poland and
      >western Ukraine.
      >The eastern part of of Galicija was previously called Ruthenia.
      >
      >In Slavic languages the letter "w" appears only in foreign words.
      >and the letter "v" is pron. as v.
      >But in Polish the letter "w" is always pron. v and the letter ? is
      >pron. as u.
      >In German the letter "w" is also pron. v and the letter "v" is pron.
      >f, v.
      >
      >When Cyrillic alphabet is transliterated into Roman (Latin) alphabet,
      >7-8 different spellings are possible - all correct because there is no
      >standard.
      >Depends into which European language the place name (or surname) was
      >transliterated to last.
      >
      >How are you ?
      >
      >Jak sie masz ? Polish
      >
      >K A K D E J| A' ? Russian (Cyrillic)
      >(k ah k dy e l a )
      >
      >R K C || P A B |/| ? Ukrainian (Cyrillic)
      >(yah k s p r ? v ee )
      >
      >Ukrainian has a H sound/letter, but no hard G.
      >Russian has no H sound/letter, but a hard G.
      >
      >Both are written in the Cyrillic alphabet.
      >Carpatho-Rusyns speak 'po nashemu'; their language is similar to
      >Ukrainian and also uses the Cyrillic alphabet.
      >
      >There are also about a dozen places called
      >C J| o 6 o /| a (Cyrillic)
      >S l o b o d a (Ukrainian)
      >located in present day Ukraine.
      >
      >Frank K
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • James McGrath
      A transliteration takes a word in one alphabet and expresses the same pronunciation/sounds in another alphabet. A translation is an attempt to render the
      Message 2 of 4 , Jun 3, 2005
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        A transliteration takes a word in one alphabet and
        expresses the same pronunciation/sounds in another
        alphabet. A translation is an attempt to render the
        MEANING of a word into another language. So 'dos
        vedanya' would be a transliteration of Russian words
        from Cyrillic into English letters. A translation, on
        the other hand, would be 'goodbye'.

        I hope this helps!

        James


        --- Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:

        > Hi Frank,
        > What is the difference between Transliteration and
        > Translation?
        > Can you provide an example?
        > Thanks!
        > Bill
        >


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      • Bill Tarkulich
        So let me play this back to you, to see if I understand: A noun (house, car, dog), can be TRANSLATED A surname is usually TRANSLITERATED: TARKULIC = TARKULICH
        Message 3 of 4 , Jun 3, 2005
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          So let me play this back to you, to see if I understand:
          A noun (house, car, dog), can be TRANSLATED
          A surname is usually TRANSLITERATED: TARKULIC' = TARKULICH
          A given name may or may not be TRANSLITERATED (i.e., WASYL = VASYL or=sometimes CHARLES.)

          I appreciate there are often exceptions.
          Thanks,
          Bill


          >From: James McGrath <jamesfrankmcgrath@...>
          >Date: Fri Jun 03 14:08:01 CDT 2005
          >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: [S-R] Transliteration vs. Translation

          >A transliteration takes a word in one alphabet and
          >expresses the same pronunciation/sounds in another
          >alphabet. A translation is an attempt to render the
          >MEANING of a word into another language. So 'dos
          >vedanya' would be a transliteration of Russian words
          >from Cyrillic into English letters. A translation, on
          >the other hand, would be 'goodbye'.
          >
          >I hope this helps!
          >
          >James
          >
          >
          >--- Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
          >
          >> Hi Frank,
          >> What is the difference between Transliteration and
          >> Translation?
          >> Can you provide an example?
          >> Thanks!
          >> Bill
          >>
          >
          >
          >__________________________________________________
          >Do You Yahoo!?
          >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          >http://mail.yahoo.com
          >
          >
          >
          >To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Frank
          ... Bill Translate - rendering of something into another language or from one s own language into another language. Transliterate - to change (letters, words,
          Message 4 of 4 , Jun 3, 2005
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            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Bill Tarkulich
            <bill.tarkulich@i...> wrote:
            > Hi Frank,
            > What is the difference between Transliteration and Translation?
            > Can you provide an example?
            > Thanks!
            > Bill

            Bill

            Translate - rendering of something into another language or from one's
            own language into another language.

            Transliterate - to change (letters, words, or characters) into the
            corresponding characters of another alphabet or language.

            In the URL at bottom of page below the place names were translated
            between the various Slavic languages.

            The table at bottom of URL also transliterated the Russian and
            Ukrainian Cyrillic alphabet into the Roman (Latin) alphabet.
            e.g.
            Ukr Roman
            Cyrillic Latin (letter)
            C S pron. like English S
            J | l pron. like English l
            o o pron. like English o
            6 b pron. like English b
            o o pron. like English o
            / | d pron. like English d
            a a pron. like English a

            For example, a town located in former Bukovina (which is now divided
            between the Ukraine and Romania) had 9 place names in various
            languages.
            A Sloboda located in the Ukraine could have been the village located
            near 4) Chernowitz except that town was never located in Galicia.
            1 Chernowatz
            2 Cernauti
            3 Chernivtsi
            4 Chernowitz
            5 Chernovitsy
            6 Chernovits
            7 Tscherenowitz
            8 Czernowitz
            9 Czerniowce


            URL
            http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9479/rusyn.html

            Frank K


            >
            > >From: Frank <frankur@w...>
            > >Date: Fri Jun 03 11:07:35 CDT 2005
            > >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > >Subject: [S-R] Re: Surname Wrobel from Sloboda Galicija
            >
            > >Karen E
            > >
            > >In the 1906 ship manifest page four surnames Wrobel were listed.
            > >No. 16 Wasyl Wrobel age 34
            > >No. 17 Katarzyna Wrobel age 10
            > >No. 19 Katarzyna Wrobel age 17
            > >No. 20 Anastazia Wrobel age 16
            > >
            > >No. 16 and No. 17 were deported and both were from Cieplice (Dolne)
            > >Galicija
            > >No. 19 and No. 20 were from Sloboda Galicija
            > >No. 19 was going to her brother Iwan Wrobel at 619 N. Hancock St
            > >Philadephia PA
            > >Expect that their Last Residences Cieplice and Sloboda were located
            > >near one another in former Austrian-Poland.
            > >Sloboda Duza is located 151 miles SSE of Warszawa and Cieplice
            Dolne
            > >is located 154 miles SSE of Warszawa and both are still located in
            > >Poland.
            > >
            > >Austria's presence in Galicia began in 1769, when Hapsburg troops
            > >occupied the 16 Polish-held towns and villages in the Spis^ region
            on
            > >the southern slopes of the Carpathians.
            > >As a result of the partition of Poland by Russsia, Prussia and
            Austria
            > >in 1772, Austria was awarded 31,600 sqaure miles with 2.6 million
            > >inhabitants in Rus' (Galicia) and parts of Volhynia.
            > >The new Austrian acquisition was named The Kingdom of
            > >Galicia-Lodomeria, recalling the title in the Hungarian crown ,
            whose
            > >origins went back to 12th century claim of Hungary's kings to
            > >medieval Rus' principalities of Galicia and Volhynia (Lodomeria).
            > >
            > >>From the late 1700s until the end of WWI, Poland did not exist as
            a
            > >country. It was divided among the Russian, German (Prussian), and
            > >Austrian Empires. These divisions were known as Partitions.
            > >There was Russian-Poland,German-Poland,and Austrian-Poland.
            > >Austrian-Poland
            > >
            > >By the First Partition of Poland, Austria had obtained Galicia
            > >(consisting of Red Russia, the city of Lemberg [Lw?w], a part of
            > >western Podolia, and southern Little Poland).
            > >Austria did not take any Polish land in the Second Partition.
            > >During the Third Partition of Poland, Austria took the remainder of
            > >Little Poland and Krak?w.
            > >
            > >The southern Polish territories around Krak?w and Lw?w were
            > >incorporated into the Austrian Empire and renamed "Galicia".
            > >
            > >Galicia was formerly a Austrian Crownland and part of
            Austro-Hungarian
            > >Monarchy(1867-1918). Sometimes referred to as Austrian Poland.
            > >Other names for the area were Galicja (Polish), Galizien (German),
            > >Halychyna (Ukrainian) and Rus Halicka (Polish).
            > >
            > >In 1918, Galicia was annexed to Poland as "Malopolska" (Little
            > >Poland).
            > >After the 1939 partition of Poland by Germany and Russia, East
            Galicia
            > >became part of Ukraine (within the Soviet Union) while West Galicia
            > >remained in Poland.
            > >Its former territories are now shared between southern Poland and
            > >western Ukraine.
            > >The eastern part of of Galicija was previously called Ruthenia.
            > >
            > >In Slavic languages the letter "w" appears only in foreign words.
            > >and the letter "v" is pron. as v.
            > >But in Polish the letter "w" is always pron. v and the letter ? is
            > >pron. as u.
            > >In German the letter "w" is also pron. v and the letter "v" is
            pron.
            > >f, v.
            > >
            > >When Cyrillic alphabet is transliterated into Roman (Latin)
            alphabet,
            > >7-8 different spellings are possible - all correct because there is
            no
            > >standard.
            > >Depends into which European language the place name (or surname)
            was
            > >transliterated to last.
            > >
            > >How are you ?
            > >
            > >Jak sie masz ? Polish
            > >
            > >K A K D E J| A' ? Russian (Cyrillic)
            > >(k ah k dy e l a )
            > >
            > >R K C || P A B |/| ? Ukrainian (Cyrillic)
            > >(yah k s p r ? v ee )
            > >
            > >Ukrainian has a H sound/letter, but no hard G.
            > >Russian has no H sound/letter, but a hard G.
            > >
            > >Both are written in the Cyrillic alphabet.
            > >Carpatho-Rusyns speak 'po nashemu'; their language is similar to
            > >Ukrainian and also uses the Cyrillic alphabet.
            > >
            > >There are also about a dozen places called
            > >C J| o 6 o /| a (Cyrillic)
            > >S l o b o d a (Ukrainian)
            > >located in present day Ukraine.
            > >
            > >Frank K
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
            to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
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