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Re: [S-R] Family Line Nicknames in Slovakia

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  • Frank
    ... genealogy searches an adventure when names can have so many possible variations. ... had been changed from Scserbak to Scerbak. Not surprisingly since
    Message 1 of 13 , May 27, 2005
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      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@j...>
      wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Frank,
      > Thanks for the "clarification" on names. It certainly makes the
      genealogy searches an adventure when names can have so many possible
      variations.
      > It was pointed out to me that my paternal grandmother's surname
      had been changed from Scserbak to Scerbak. Not surprisingly since
      Scserbak can mean toothless. Makes for an interesting mental picture
      when names were given out.
      > I'm not sure about the meaning of my surname, Mojher. In
      Slovakia it is spelled Mojcher. I found in the records the "c" was
      accidentally added in the early 1800's, before that there was no "c".
      > Michael Mojher

      Michal

      In old Hungarian family names letter "ch" or "ts" = cs and
      letter "cz" = c and letter "y" = i.
      The letter "cs" which was pron. as ts was eliminated in 1910.
      The Hungarian letter "cs" (diagraph) is pron. ch.
      The Slavic diacritic (accented) letter "c^" is pron. ch.
      In Hungarian and Slavic languages the letter c (unaccented) is pron.
      as ts.
      Example :
      Kurcsina (H)
      Kurc^ina (Sk)

      In Hungarian the letter "s" is pron. sh.
      In Slovak the diacritic (accented) letter "s^" is pron. sh.
      Example :
      Scserbak (H)
      S^c^erbák (Shcherbak) (Sk)

      Hungarian
      fog = tooth
      fogazott = toothed
      fogatlan = toothless

      Slovak
      zub = tooth
      bezzuby' = toothless


      Frank K
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Frank
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 6:53 AM
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Family Line Nicknames in Slovakia
      >
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Mojher"
      <mgmojher@j...>
      > wrote:
      > > Dear Bill,
      > > I will give you examples of the "DO" names and you tell me
      if
      > they are an alias. The whole conversation about "DO" only
      concerned
      > family lines. Even though the "DO" was applied to individuals to
      > identify them being a member. I was asked, "Do you know which "DO"
      > your relatives belonged to?"
      > > Examples: Mojcher do Palody
      > > Mojcher do Adama
      > > Mojcher do Terkesa
      > > Rindos do Britanak
      > > Rindos do Szajka
      > > Rindos do Tomka
      > > Sekelsky do Macka
      > > I'll send a report on the trip shortly to the Group. Each
      trip
      > is harder to come home from.
      > > Michael Mojher
      >
      >
      > ahoj Michal,
      >
      > I see surnames bearers German listed in Slovakia and a biname
      > German-Sobek.
      >
      > When András (H) Andrej/Ondrej (Sk) Andrew (E) Hol'pit, age 25,
      Slovak,
      > married, arrived from S.Patak in 1905 he went to friend's address
      in
      > Connellsville ? PA.
      >
      > In Mokroluh, Bardejov, and Dlhá Lúk your surname was spelled
      Hol'pit.
      > Mokroluh had various names in Hungarian such as Sarpataka,
      Sárpatak.
      > At one time it was called Schár-Pataka which expect was its German
      > spelling name for its Magyar name , i.e. sár (mud,dirt) + patak
      > (brook,stream)
      > Potok in Slovak.
      > And Mokroluh is located on the Top'la.
      > Name Mokroluh was probably derived from Slovak term mokry'
      (wet,rainy)
      >
      > In villages throughout Europe, where there were several or more
      > surname bearers with the same first names, a system of binames or
      > aliases evolved.
      > Analogous to the way a married woman might hyphenate her marrried
      and
      > maiden names (Married-Maiden into a single surname)
      > Usually a nickname or alias was given the second surname bearer to
      > distinguish him from the first surname bearer.
      > The name <= left of hyphen was the original surname and one => to
      > right was the alias.
      > Over time some binames became branch surnames.
      > Sometimes the names were reversed with the names exchanged from
      one
      > side to the other.
      > And sometimes the surname bearers were not related if a similiar
      > surname bearer had later moved to the town.
      > Some such names were recycled over following generations in the
      same
      > village.
      > In addition, some surname bearers used one surname when resident
      in
      > their village of origin and another surname when traveling away
      from
      > village.
      > Very confusing.
      >
      > Slavic surnames can roughly divided into three main groups :
      >
      > those derived from original nicknames, such as names of animals,
      > trees,
      > things. professions, etc.
      >
      > those derived from the Chrustian given name or profession of
      > father (patronymics)
      >
      > those derived from names of towns, villages, regions, etc.
      > (toponymics)
      >
      > In many cases it is nearly impossible to determine if a given
      surname
      > is derived from the name of a profession or from the name of the
      > village which has this profession in its root.
      > In middle ages there were villages where all the inhabitants were
      > engaged in the same profession, bore the same surnames, and were
      not
      > necessarily related.
      >
      > Such names originated in this fashion.
      > In a village were two surname bearers with identical surnames and
      > first names, whether by birth or by migration of another bearer to
      the
      > same place.
      > In order to distinguish between them an alias was assigned to the
      > second surname bearer.
      > Perhaps a descriptive term such a short (maly') or tall (vysoky)
      or
      > some otheridentifier, or say bearer's place of origin .
      > Later such names became codified at the location.
      >
      >
      > Binames (nicknames), or surnames were rare throughout Europe
      > (800-1250 A.D.), and most names recorded during this period bear
      only
      > a given name.
      > The few individuals recorded with a biname bear a patronymic,
      formed
      > from the father's first name.
      > Between 1250-1526 Christian and saint's names became the standard.
      > Binames or surnames included patronymics - those derived from the
      > Christian name or profession of the father (patronymics) and
      sometimes
      > contained the town/village of origin or residence as well.
      >
      >
      > Frank K
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: Bill Tarkulich
      > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS
      > > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 1:43 PM
      > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Family Line Nicknames in Slovakia
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi Michael,
      > > Welcome home! I'm sure you're already missing the place, no?

      > What was the best part? Please re-send your travelogue to this
      list,
      > would love to read it.
      > >
      > > Regarding "nicknames", we generally refer to them as an
      "alias".
      > They are extremely prevalent and an important part of Slovakia
      Culture
      > and Customs. Vladimir Bohnic has written extensively about them
      in
      > the past. They are still in use today, regardless of whether
      there
      > are duplicate names or not.
      > >
      > > I think you are quite lucky to find a cross-reference
      document. I
      > don't know if many villages do it, I've not heard much about it.
      > >
      > > We as researchers are very much aware of aliases. In many
      cases,
      > it's only the alias that is used to refer to someone in everyday
      > conversation.
      > >
      > > We see them occassionally in the church records, but not
      always
      > consistently. That's what makes it difficult. You're correct, it
      is
      > really helpful when they are there. The only way to be certain
      > otherwise is to follow the parents and siblings and see how they
      refer
      > to each other.
      > >
      > > It is more common to see an alias applied to an individual
      rather
      > than to a family, but as I say in this biz, never say never!
      > > Bill
      > >
      > >
      > > >From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@j...>
      > > >Date: Tue May 24 14:38:18 CDT 2005
      > > >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > >Subject: [S-R] Family Line Nicknames in Slovakia
      > >
      > > >Dear Members,
      > > > While researching family members in Plavnica City Hall I
      > discovered that there is an important piece of genealogy
      information
      > that is not recorded in official records. Yet this information is
      used
      > by the local population and is vital for tracing family members.
      > > > It is what I would call "Family Line Nicknames". The
      people
      > of a town are very much aware of family lines. When they refer to
      a
      > certain family they will say they are, " surname 'do' nickname."
      The
      > "do" is "to" in Slovak. It is not uncommon in conversation when
      > speaking of an individual they will not even use the surname at
      all.
      > Instead just the given and nicknames are used.
      > > > This is used so all those of the same given name with the
      > same surname can be told apart from one another.
      > > > For myself I discovered that the Mojchers have three
      > distinctive family lines and corresponding nicknames. The Rindos
      line
      > I was investigating had four such lines and nicknames.
      > > > From the Rindos lines I discovered that the nicknames are
      not
      > always complementary. One line's nickname translated into
      > "chicken****".
      > > > The net result is that I couldn't complete my research
      > because on one family member because there were too many of "him"
      and
      > I did not know his "do".
      > > > The consequences are when you contact a City Hall
      directly
      > for information. They may tell you they could not find anything,
      even
      > though in truth the information is there. The problem is there
      were
      > just too many with the same given and surnames for them to take
      the
      > time to search the records. But by having the "do" it could be
      found
      > easily.
      > > > This is a real "catch-22".
      > > > Has anyone else run into this "do" problem or know more
      about
      > it?
      > > >Michael Mojher
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
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      > >
      > >
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