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Re: [S-R] Ancestral village help

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  • amiak27
    Kris, On its own, knowing for sure your grandfather was a Zipser Saxon is NOT enough to be sure his family originated in Saxony! The name was generic and
    Message 1 of 9 , May 17, 2005
      Kris,

      On its own, knowing for sure your grandfather was a Zipser Saxon is
      NOT enough to be sure his family originated in Saxony! The name was
      generic and applied to most all of the Zipsers who came from the
      Germanic lands. I suggest you look more deeply into the history of
      the German migrations and you will see they came from different
      areas of the Germanic states, including Switzerland and Austria.

      To narrow down the area where they might have come from you might do
      a search in Germany and see where the family name is common today.
      That will give you another indication of areas to look in with
      future research.
      To some Swiss all Germans are Schwaben, to some Hessians all north
      Germans are Preuss (pronounced Price). This has gone on for
      centuries ...

      Ron

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, krisstrot@a... wrote:
      > Beverly,
      > Is it possible that this is a county instead of a village? My
      grandfather referred to himself as a Zipser Saxon, which I have come
      to understand means that he was born and raised in the Szepes
      ("Zips") area of Slovakia and his ancestors originated in the Saxony
      region of Germany. And the spelling on Ellis Island is only as good
      as the person who wrote down the information in the manifest in the
      first place. It's interesting reading through some of those records
      even when you KNOW where the person was from. Most of the manifest
      entries for the people I am researching list them as being from
      Hungary, even though at that time it was technically Austro-Hungary,
      but actually, now, Slovakia. Some records even show them as being
      from Austria!! Back to the original question, it is not a hard
      stretch to imagine Zamba was someone's version of Zemplin, which is
      definitely Slovakia. I'm just guessing, but sometimes stretching
      beyond the obvious can open leads for us that we didn't think
      existed. Good luck!
      > Kris
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
      ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      > Behalf Of famryd@a...
      > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:47 AM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [S-R] Ancestral village help
      >
      > Hi,
      >
      > I am new to this group. This is my first posting. I was
      wondering if any
      > of you could help me with finding out about my ggrandmother's
      village. I
      > found
      > her on the Ellis Island site with her name spelled wrong. It is
      Valencik
      > but
      > was spelled Valenczik.She came here 12/26/1892 from Bremen and
      Southampton
      > with 2 children. The last place of residence was Zamba. They are
      Iisted as
      > Hungarian but ggrandfather told relatives he was Slovak. I can't
      locate
      > this
      > village on any maps. I presented it to my Czech-Slovak group and
      know one
      > recognizes it. Do any of you have an idea? Thank you so much.
      > Sincerely, Beverly in WA state
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • nhasior@aol.com
      Hello Beverly, using the website, Shtetlseeker, there is a Zomba located in Hungary. http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm could they have been
      Message 2 of 9 , May 18, 2005
        Hello Beverly,
        using the website, Shtetlseeker, there is a Zomba located in Hungary.
        http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm
        could they have been Slovaks who relocated in Hungary for work or other
        reasons?


        using a Google.com search for Zamba, there is one site that mentions a zamba
        dance, which is in native to Slovakia and Rumania.
        Noreen


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bill Tarkulich
        Hello Beverly, Welcome aboard! Glad you joined us. In the era your GM immigrated, the manifests were primarily interested in the nation of origin, not their
        Message 3 of 9 , May 18, 2005
          Hello Beverly,
          Welcome aboard! Glad you joined us.

          In the era your GM immigrated, the manifests were primarily interested in
          the nation of origin, not their ethnicity.

          Just because someone was from a Magyar village doesn't preclude them from
          being Slovak.
          Since the Surname was spelled with the Magyar (Hungarian) language
          constructs (note the "z"), it's quite likely the village will have a name
          cited in Magyar also. Looking through a number of all-Hungary village
          gazetteers which cross-reference all Magyar names, there is no exact match
          for ZAMBA, which leads me to conclude it was written incorrectly.

          Just because "ZAMBA" is in the manifest, doesn't mean it was spelled
          correctly. Here are some possibilities for you to research further:
          1. ZOMBA, is in Hungary, Tolna county, Volgysegi district. In 1910, this
          village had 1099 Magyar and 954 Germans.
          2. ZOMBOR was in Bacs-Bodrog county. IN 1910 it had 10078 Magyar, 2181
          German, 11,881 Serbian, 6093 Bunievatz
          3. ZOBOR (ZOMBOR) WAS IN Nograd County. It had 118 Magyar and 157 Slovaks.

          4. ZOMBOR - Zemplen County, Szerencs district, now called Mezozombor,
          Hungary. In 1910: 2297 Magyars. What's fishy about this one is that the
          religious breakdown is 1374 Roman Catholics, 450 Greek Catholics, 417
          Romanians. Since Greek Catholics were predominantly Rusyn, I'd want to
          investigate this one closer. Examine the neighboring villages.

          Here is a list of counties, a national map and links to a circa 1910 hi-res
          map for each county. http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/vmlista.htm You
          can use these maps to locate the above villages in their respective
          counties.

          Sources: Magyarorszag Kozigazgatasi Atlasza 1914; Genealogical Gazetteer of
          the Kingdom of Hungary, 2005; Magyar Helysegnev-Azonosito Szotar, 1996.
          Another way to back into this is to examine manifests of other people with
          the same surname. See what villages they came from. See if there is either
          a close name match or, using a map, see if the village cited is within close
          proximity of something spelled like ZOMBA.

          Clues, clues clues. We need 'em. It would also be helpful to hear what
          else you know about your GM. What was her maiden name? Religion?
          Languages spoken? Year of death? Was the village large or small? What was
          it near? What kind of work or countryside was described?
          Have you researched any papers? Marriage documents? Immigration or
          naturalization documents/files?

          More clues. I notice they traveled 2nd class. These were people of some
          means. Chances are likely if this was the case, that they may have come
          from a more populous area or city; this is traditionally where the money
          was. You might put larger towns or cities on the short list.

          Another consideration was that this was a way-station or someplace they
          lived for a short time, not necessarily their permanent residence. Another
          thing to consider is that there was a whole group from this same village,
          but what is curious is that the other folk were all going to various other
          unrelated places. Remember that records in the 1800s were did not have much
          documentation rigor, leaving a lot of room for error.

          I still like the notion of checking others with the same surnames and see
          where that takes you. That's all for now. Happy hunting!

          Regards,

          ______________
          Bill Tarkulich




          -----Original Message-----
          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of frank.r.plichta@...
          Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 5:16 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [S-R] Ancestral village help


          Beverly,

          I checked my two references for Slovak communities and do not find any
          listing similar to Zamba.

          The references I checked were:
          1. Vlastivedny' Slovni'k obci' na Slovensku, Three volume set, 1978 VEDA,
          Vydavatel'stvo Slovenskej Akade'mie Vied, Bratislava. 2. Na'zvy obci'
          Slovenskej Republiky (Vy'vin V rokoch 1773-1997) VEDA, vydavatel'stvo
          Slovenskej akade'mie vied, Bratislava, 1998.

          These references are gazetteers the first published during the Communist era
          and the second a more recent update.

          Perhaps someone else can offer more constructive information. Good Luck
          Frank

          -----Original Message-----
          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of famryd@...
          Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:47 AM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [S-R] Ancestral village help

          Hi,

          I am new to this group. This is my first posting. I was wondering if any
          of you could help me with finding out about my ggrandmother's village. I
          found
          her on the Ellis Island site with her name spelled wrong. It is Valencik but

          was spelled Valenczik.She came here 12/26/1892 from Bremen and Southampton
          with 2 children. The last place of residence was Zamba. They are Iisted as
          Hungarian but ggrandfather told relatives he was Slovak. I can't locate
          this
          village on any maps. I presented it to my Czech-Slovak group and know one
          recognizes it. Do any of you have an idea? Thank you so much.
          Sincerely, Beverly in WA state


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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        • Janet Kozlay
          My favorite website for searching out old Hungarian villages is the RADIX Index at http://www.bogardi.com/gen/. There were no less than 23 villages in 1913
          Message 4 of 9 , May 18, 2005
            My favorite website for searching out old Hungarian villages is the RADIX
            Index at http://www.bogardi.com/gen/. There were no less than 23 villages in
            1913 Hungary with ZOMBA in their name, including four which are in
            present-day Slovakia. As Bill pointed out, many of them in present-day
            Hungary also had substantial Slovak populations.

            In addition to the Bill's suggestions, you might want to look at Pozsony
            (Hungarian name for Bratislava) megye, in far western Slovakia today. EI
            records show an Agnes Valencsik immigrating in 1912 from Szomolany and
            Rozina Valenczik (1905) and Janos Valencsik (1911) from Binocz, villages not
            far from each other in Nagyszombati district. (See map at
            http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/pozsony.jpg.)

            Janet
          • Pat and Lane Watkins
            Where did you get those wonderful maps? Are they available for purchase somewhere? Pat ... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG
            Message 5 of 9 , May 18, 2005
              Where did you get those wonderful maps? Are they available for purchase
              somewhere?

              Pat
              ***********


              >Here is a list of counties, a national map and links to a circa 1910 hi-res
              >map for each county. http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/vmlista.htm You
              >can use these maps to locate the above villages in their respective
              >counties.


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              No virus found in this outgoing message.
              Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
              Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.11 - Release Date: 5/16/2005
            • Bill Tarkulich
              No, they are not available for purchase, but you can download and save them on your PC. They are hosted on a server owned by the Cartography department of a
              Message 6 of 9 , May 19, 2005
                No, they are not available for purchase, but you can download and save them
                on your PC. They are hosted on a server owned by the Cartography department
                of a university in Hungary. If you have the money to spend and really want
                a paper copy, you might want to approach Kinkos or another copy center.
                They have the large-format printers and can create paper copies of these
                image files. Call them first. You may not even need to bring the file,
                just the web address (print this message) and they can look it up. Since
                the maps were published in 1910, copyrights have expired and you are clear
                to copy them.

                Alternately, you can mail order a gazetteer. They are not the same notes
                and they are bit more simplistic in their rendering (no Topo), but can be
                equally helpful to genealogists.

                ATLAS AND GAZETTEER OF HISTORIC HUNGARY 1914, Talma Publishing, Hungary
                (price is presently 45 Euros)
                Great county-by county maps of entire Hungarian Empire circa 1914-17. Index
                of all villages along with 1914 census data: population, ethnicity and
                religion. Magyar place names only. In Magyar, but entirely readable. I
                use it a lot because it also contains the 1910 Census aggregates.
                http://www.talmamedia.com/index.php

                Good Luck,

                ______________
                Bill Tarkulich




                -----Original Message-----
                From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Pat and Lane Watkins
                Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:25 PM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [S-R] Maps


                Where did you get those wonderful maps? Are they available for purchase
                somewhere?

                Pat
                ***********


                >Here is a list of counties, a national map and links to a circa 1910
                >hi-res map for each county.
                >http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/vmlista.htm You can use these
                >maps to locate the above villages in their respective counties.


                --
                No virus found in this outgoing message.
                Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.11 - Release Date: 5/16/2005





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