Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [S-R] Ancestral village help

Expand Messages
  • krisstrot@aol.com
    Beverly, Is it possible that this is a county instead of a village? My grandfather referred to himself as a Zipser Saxon, which I have come to understand
    Message 1 of 9 , May 17 3:13 PM
      Beverly,
      Is it possible that this is a county instead of a village? My grandfather referred to himself as a Zipser Saxon, which I have come to understand means that he was born and raised in the Szepes ("Zips") area of Slovakia and his ancestors originated in the Saxony region of Germany. And the spelling on Ellis Island is only as good as the person who wrote down the information in the manifest in the first place. It's interesting reading through some of those records even when you KNOW where the person was from. Most of the manifest entries for the people I am researching list them as being from Hungary, even though at that time it was technically Austro-Hungary, but actually, now, Slovakia. Some records even show them as being from Austria!! Back to the original question, it is not a hard stretch to imagine Zamba was someone's version of Zemplin, which is definitely Slovakia. I'm just guessing, but sometimes stretching beyond the obvious can open leads for us that we didn't think existed. Good luck!
      Kris

      -----Original Message-----
      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of famryd@...
      Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:47 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [S-R] Ancestral village help

      Hi,

      I am new to this group. This is my first posting. I was wondering if any
      of you could help me with finding out about my ggrandmother's village. I
      found
      her on the Ellis Island site with her name spelled wrong. It is Valencik
      but
      was spelled Valenczik.She came here 12/26/1892 from Bremen and Southampton
      with 2 children. The last place of residence was Zamba. They are Iisted as
      Hungarian but ggrandfather told relatives he was Slovak. I can't locate
      this
      village on any maps. I presented it to my Czech-Slovak group and know one
      recognizes it. Do any of you have an idea? Thank you so much.
      Sincerely, Beverly in WA state


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • amiak27
      Kris, On its own, knowing for sure your grandfather was a Zipser Saxon is NOT enough to be sure his family originated in Saxony! The name was generic and
      Message 2 of 9 , May 17 10:13 PM
        Kris,

        On its own, knowing for sure your grandfather was a Zipser Saxon is
        NOT enough to be sure his family originated in Saxony! The name was
        generic and applied to most all of the Zipsers who came from the
        Germanic lands. I suggest you look more deeply into the history of
        the German migrations and you will see they came from different
        areas of the Germanic states, including Switzerland and Austria.

        To narrow down the area where they might have come from you might do
        a search in Germany and see where the family name is common today.
        That will give you another indication of areas to look in with
        future research.
        To some Swiss all Germans are Schwaben, to some Hessians all north
        Germans are Preuss (pronounced Price). This has gone on for
        centuries ...

        Ron

        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, krisstrot@a... wrote:
        > Beverly,
        > Is it possible that this is a county instead of a village? My
        grandfather referred to himself as a Zipser Saxon, which I have come
        to understand means that he was born and raised in the Szepes
        ("Zips") area of Slovakia and his ancestors originated in the Saxony
        region of Germany. And the spelling on Ellis Island is only as good
        as the person who wrote down the information in the manifest in the
        first place. It's interesting reading through some of those records
        even when you KNOW where the person was from. Most of the manifest
        entries for the people I am researching list them as being from
        Hungary, even though at that time it was technically Austro-Hungary,
        but actually, now, Slovakia. Some records even show them as being
        from Austria!! Back to the original question, it is not a hard
        stretch to imagine Zamba was someone's version of Zemplin, which is
        definitely Slovakia. I'm just guessing, but sometimes stretching
        beyond the obvious can open leads for us that we didn't think
        existed. Good luck!
        > Kris
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
        ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
        > Behalf Of famryd@a...
        > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:47 AM
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [S-R] Ancestral village help
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        > I am new to this group. This is my first posting. I was
        wondering if any
        > of you could help me with finding out about my ggrandmother's
        village. I
        > found
        > her on the Ellis Island site with her name spelled wrong. It is
        Valencik
        > but
        > was spelled Valenczik.She came here 12/26/1892 from Bremen and
        Southampton
        > with 2 children. The last place of residence was Zamba. They are
        Iisted as
        > Hungarian but ggrandfather told relatives he was Slovak. I can't
        locate
        > this
        > village on any maps. I presented it to my Czech-Slovak group and
        know one
        > recognizes it. Do any of you have an idea? Thank you so much.
        > Sincerely, Beverly in WA state
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • nhasior@aol.com
        Hello Beverly, using the website, Shtetlseeker, there is a Zomba located in Hungary. http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm could they have been
        Message 3 of 9 , May 18 3:58 AM
          Hello Beverly,
          using the website, Shtetlseeker, there is a Zomba located in Hungary.
          http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm
          could they have been Slovaks who relocated in Hungary for work or other
          reasons?


          using a Google.com search for Zamba, there is one site that mentions a zamba
          dance, which is in native to Slovakia and Rumania.
          Noreen


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bill Tarkulich
          Hello Beverly, Welcome aboard! Glad you joined us. In the era your GM immigrated, the manifests were primarily interested in the nation of origin, not their
          Message 4 of 9 , May 18 4:22 AM
            Hello Beverly,
            Welcome aboard! Glad you joined us.

            In the era your GM immigrated, the manifests were primarily interested in
            the nation of origin, not their ethnicity.

            Just because someone was from a Magyar village doesn't preclude them from
            being Slovak.
            Since the Surname was spelled with the Magyar (Hungarian) language
            constructs (note the "z"), it's quite likely the village will have a name
            cited in Magyar also. Looking through a number of all-Hungary village
            gazetteers which cross-reference all Magyar names, there is no exact match
            for ZAMBA, which leads me to conclude it was written incorrectly.

            Just because "ZAMBA" is in the manifest, doesn't mean it was spelled
            correctly. Here are some possibilities for you to research further:
            1. ZOMBA, is in Hungary, Tolna county, Volgysegi district. In 1910, this
            village had 1099 Magyar and 954 Germans.
            2. ZOMBOR was in Bacs-Bodrog county. IN 1910 it had 10078 Magyar, 2181
            German, 11,881 Serbian, 6093 Bunievatz
            3. ZOBOR (ZOMBOR) WAS IN Nograd County. It had 118 Magyar and 157 Slovaks.

            4. ZOMBOR - Zemplen County, Szerencs district, now called Mezozombor,
            Hungary. In 1910: 2297 Magyars. What's fishy about this one is that the
            religious breakdown is 1374 Roman Catholics, 450 Greek Catholics, 417
            Romanians. Since Greek Catholics were predominantly Rusyn, I'd want to
            investigate this one closer. Examine the neighboring villages.

            Here is a list of counties, a national map and links to a circa 1910 hi-res
            map for each county. http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/vmlista.htm You
            can use these maps to locate the above villages in their respective
            counties.

            Sources: Magyarorszag Kozigazgatasi Atlasza 1914; Genealogical Gazetteer of
            the Kingdom of Hungary, 2005; Magyar Helysegnev-Azonosito Szotar, 1996.
            Another way to back into this is to examine manifests of other people with
            the same surname. See what villages they came from. See if there is either
            a close name match or, using a map, see if the village cited is within close
            proximity of something spelled like ZOMBA.

            Clues, clues clues. We need 'em. It would also be helpful to hear what
            else you know about your GM. What was her maiden name? Religion?
            Languages spoken? Year of death? Was the village large or small? What was
            it near? What kind of work or countryside was described?
            Have you researched any papers? Marriage documents? Immigration or
            naturalization documents/files?

            More clues. I notice they traveled 2nd class. These were people of some
            means. Chances are likely if this was the case, that they may have come
            from a more populous area or city; this is traditionally where the money
            was. You might put larger towns or cities on the short list.

            Another consideration was that this was a way-station or someplace they
            lived for a short time, not necessarily their permanent residence. Another
            thing to consider is that there was a whole group from this same village,
            but what is curious is that the other folk were all going to various other
            unrelated places. Remember that records in the 1800s were did not have much
            documentation rigor, leaving a lot of room for error.

            I still like the notion of checking others with the same surnames and see
            where that takes you. That's all for now. Happy hunting!

            Regards,

            ______________
            Bill Tarkulich




            -----Original Message-----
            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of frank.r.plichta@...
            Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 5:16 PM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [S-R] Ancestral village help


            Beverly,

            I checked my two references for Slovak communities and do not find any
            listing similar to Zamba.

            The references I checked were:
            1. Vlastivedny' Slovni'k obci' na Slovensku, Three volume set, 1978 VEDA,
            Vydavatel'stvo Slovenskej Akade'mie Vied, Bratislava. 2. Na'zvy obci'
            Slovenskej Republiky (Vy'vin V rokoch 1773-1997) VEDA, vydavatel'stvo
            Slovenskej akade'mie vied, Bratislava, 1998.

            These references are gazetteers the first published during the Communist era
            and the second a more recent update.

            Perhaps someone else can offer more constructive information. Good Luck
            Frank

            -----Original Message-----
            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of famryd@...
            Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:47 AM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [S-R] Ancestral village help

            Hi,

            I am new to this group. This is my first posting. I was wondering if any
            of you could help me with finding out about my ggrandmother's village. I
            found
            her on the Ellis Island site with her name spelled wrong. It is Valencik but

            was spelled Valenczik.She came here 12/26/1892 from Bremen and Southampton
            with 2 children. The last place of residence was Zamba. They are Iisted as
            Hungarian but ggrandfather told relatives he was Slovak. I can't locate
            this
            village on any maps. I presented it to my Czech-Slovak group and know one
            recognizes it. Do any of you have an idea? Thank you so much.
            Sincerely, Beverly in WA state


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
            SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            Yahoo! Groups Links









            To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
            SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Janet Kozlay
            My favorite website for searching out old Hungarian villages is the RADIX Index at http://www.bogardi.com/gen/. There were no less than 23 villages in 1913
            Message 5 of 9 , May 18 5:40 AM
              My favorite website for searching out old Hungarian villages is the RADIX
              Index at http://www.bogardi.com/gen/. There were no less than 23 villages in
              1913 Hungary with ZOMBA in their name, including four which are in
              present-day Slovakia. As Bill pointed out, many of them in present-day
              Hungary also had substantial Slovak populations.

              In addition to the Bill's suggestions, you might want to look at Pozsony
              (Hungarian name for Bratislava) megye, in far western Slovakia today. EI
              records show an Agnes Valencsik immigrating in 1912 from Szomolany and
              Rozina Valenczik (1905) and Janos Valencsik (1911) from Binocz, villages not
              far from each other in Nagyszombati district. (See map at
              http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/pozsony.jpg.)

              Janet
            • Pat and Lane Watkins
              Where did you get those wonderful maps? Are they available for purchase somewhere? Pat ... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG
              Message 6 of 9 , May 18 8:25 PM
                Where did you get those wonderful maps? Are they available for purchase
                somewhere?

                Pat
                ***********


                >Here is a list of counties, a national map and links to a circa 1910 hi-res
                >map for each county. http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/vmlista.htm You
                >can use these maps to locate the above villages in their respective
                >counties.


                --
                No virus found in this outgoing message.
                Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.11 - Release Date: 5/16/2005
              • Bill Tarkulich
                No, they are not available for purchase, but you can download and save them on your PC. They are hosted on a server owned by the Cartography department of a
                Message 7 of 9 , May 19 4:18 AM
                  No, they are not available for purchase, but you can download and save them
                  on your PC. They are hosted on a server owned by the Cartography department
                  of a university in Hungary. If you have the money to spend and really want
                  a paper copy, you might want to approach Kinkos or another copy center.
                  They have the large-format printers and can create paper copies of these
                  image files. Call them first. You may not even need to bring the file,
                  just the web address (print this message) and they can look it up. Since
                  the maps were published in 1910, copyrights have expired and you are clear
                  to copy them.

                  Alternately, you can mail order a gazetteer. They are not the same notes
                  and they are bit more simplistic in their rendering (no Topo), but can be
                  equally helpful to genealogists.

                  ATLAS AND GAZETTEER OF HISTORIC HUNGARY 1914, Talma Publishing, Hungary
                  (price is presently 45 Euros)
                  Great county-by county maps of entire Hungarian Empire circa 1914-17. Index
                  of all villages along with 1914 census data: population, ethnicity and
                  religion. Magyar place names only. In Magyar, but entirely readable. I
                  use it a lot because it also contains the 1910 Census aggregates.
                  http://www.talmamedia.com/index.php

                  Good Luck,

                  ______________
                  Bill Tarkulich




                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Pat and Lane Watkins
                  Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:25 PM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [S-R] Maps


                  Where did you get those wonderful maps? Are they available for purchase
                  somewhere?

                  Pat
                  ***********


                  >Here is a list of counties, a national map and links to a circa 1910
                  >hi-res map for each county.
                  >http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/vmlista.htm You can use these
                  >maps to locate the above villages in their respective counties.


                  --
                  No virus found in this outgoing message.
                  Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                  Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.11 - Release Date: 5/16/2005





                  To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                  SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.