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RE: [S-R] Ancestral village help

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  • frank.r.plichta@earthlink.net
    Beverly, I checked my two references for Slovak communities and do not find any listing similar to Zamba. The references I checked were: 1. Vlastivedny
    Message 1 of 9 , May 17, 2005
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      Beverly,

      I checked my two references for Slovak communities and do not find any
      listing similar to Zamba.

      The references I checked were:
      1. Vlastivedny' Slovni'k obci' na Slovensku, Three volume set, 1978 VEDA,
      Vydavatel'stvo Slovenskej Akade'mie Vied, Bratislava.
      2. Na'zvy obci' Slovenskej Republiky (Vy'vin V rokoch 1773-1997) VEDA,
      vydavatel'stvo Slovenskej akade'mie vied, Bratislava, 1998.

      These references are gazetteers the first published during the Communist era
      and the second a more recent update.

      Perhaps someone else can offer more constructive information.
      Good Luck
      Frank

      -----Original Message-----
      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of famryd@...
      Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:47 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [S-R] Ancestral village help

      Hi,

      I am new to this group. This is my first posting. I was wondering if any
      of you could help me with finding out about my ggrandmother's village. I
      found
      her on the Ellis Island site with her name spelled wrong. It is Valencik
      but
      was spelled Valenczik.She came here 12/26/1892 from Bremen and Southampton
      with 2 children. The last place of residence was Zamba. They are Iisted as
      Hungarian but ggrandfather told relatives he was Slovak. I can't locate
      this
      village on any maps. I presented it to my Czech-Slovak group and know one
      recognizes it. Do any of you have an idea? Thank you so much.
      Sincerely, Beverly in WA state


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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    • krisstrot@aol.com
      Beverly, Is it possible that this is a county instead of a village? My grandfather referred to himself as a Zipser Saxon, which I have come to understand
      Message 2 of 9 , May 17, 2005
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        Beverly,
        Is it possible that this is a county instead of a village? My grandfather referred to himself as a Zipser Saxon, which I have come to understand means that he was born and raised in the Szepes ("Zips") area of Slovakia and his ancestors originated in the Saxony region of Germany. And the spelling on Ellis Island is only as good as the person who wrote down the information in the manifest in the first place. It's interesting reading through some of those records even when you KNOW where the person was from. Most of the manifest entries for the people I am researching list them as being from Hungary, even though at that time it was technically Austro-Hungary, but actually, now, Slovakia. Some records even show them as being from Austria!! Back to the original question, it is not a hard stretch to imagine Zamba was someone's version of Zemplin, which is definitely Slovakia. I'm just guessing, but sometimes stretching beyond the obvious can open leads for us that we didn't think existed. Good luck!
        Kris

        -----Original Message-----
        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of famryd@...
        Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:47 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [S-R] Ancestral village help

        Hi,

        I am new to this group. This is my first posting. I was wondering if any
        of you could help me with finding out about my ggrandmother's village. I
        found
        her on the Ellis Island site with her name spelled wrong. It is Valencik
        but
        was spelled Valenczik.She came here 12/26/1892 from Bremen and Southampton
        with 2 children. The last place of residence was Zamba. They are Iisted as
        Hungarian but ggrandfather told relatives he was Slovak. I can't locate
        this
        village on any maps. I presented it to my Czech-Slovak group and know one
        recognizes it. Do any of you have an idea? Thank you so much.
        Sincerely, Beverly in WA state


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • amiak27
        Kris, On its own, knowing for sure your grandfather was a Zipser Saxon is NOT enough to be sure his family originated in Saxony! The name was generic and
        Message 3 of 9 , May 17, 2005
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          Kris,

          On its own, knowing for sure your grandfather was a Zipser Saxon is
          NOT enough to be sure his family originated in Saxony! The name was
          generic and applied to most all of the Zipsers who came from the
          Germanic lands. I suggest you look more deeply into the history of
          the German migrations and you will see they came from different
          areas of the Germanic states, including Switzerland and Austria.

          To narrow down the area where they might have come from you might do
          a search in Germany and see where the family name is common today.
          That will give you another indication of areas to look in with
          future research.
          To some Swiss all Germans are Schwaben, to some Hessians all north
          Germans are Preuss (pronounced Price). This has gone on for
          centuries ...

          Ron

          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, krisstrot@a... wrote:
          > Beverly,
          > Is it possible that this is a county instead of a village? My
          grandfather referred to himself as a Zipser Saxon, which I have come
          to understand means that he was born and raised in the Szepes
          ("Zips") area of Slovakia and his ancestors originated in the Saxony
          region of Germany. And the spelling on Ellis Island is only as good
          as the person who wrote down the information in the manifest in the
          first place. It's interesting reading through some of those records
          even when you KNOW where the person was from. Most of the manifest
          entries for the people I am researching list them as being from
          Hungary, even though at that time it was technically Austro-Hungary,
          but actually, now, Slovakia. Some records even show them as being
          from Austria!! Back to the original question, it is not a hard
          stretch to imagine Zamba was someone's version of Zemplin, which is
          definitely Slovakia. I'm just guessing, but sometimes stretching
          beyond the obvious can open leads for us that we didn't think
          existed. Good luck!
          > Kris
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
          ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          > Behalf Of famryd@a...
          > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:47 AM
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [S-R] Ancestral village help
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > I am new to this group. This is my first posting. I was
          wondering if any
          > of you could help me with finding out about my ggrandmother's
          village. I
          > found
          > her on the Ellis Island site with her name spelled wrong. It is
          Valencik
          > but
          > was spelled Valenczik.She came here 12/26/1892 from Bremen and
          Southampton
          > with 2 children. The last place of residence was Zamba. They are
          Iisted as
          > Hungarian but ggrandfather told relatives he was Slovak. I can't
          locate
          > this
          > village on any maps. I presented it to my Czech-Slovak group and
          know one
          > recognizes it. Do any of you have an idea? Thank you so much.
          > Sincerely, Beverly in WA state
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • nhasior@aol.com
          Hello Beverly, using the website, Shtetlseeker, there is a Zomba located in Hungary. http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm could they have been
          Message 4 of 9 , May 18, 2005
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            Hello Beverly,
            using the website, Shtetlseeker, there is a Zomba located in Hungary.
            http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm
            could they have been Slovaks who relocated in Hungary for work or other
            reasons?


            using a Google.com search for Zamba, there is one site that mentions a zamba
            dance, which is in native to Slovakia and Rumania.
            Noreen


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Bill Tarkulich
            Hello Beverly, Welcome aboard! Glad you joined us. In the era your GM immigrated, the manifests were primarily interested in the nation of origin, not their
            Message 5 of 9 , May 18, 2005
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              Hello Beverly,
              Welcome aboard! Glad you joined us.

              In the era your GM immigrated, the manifests were primarily interested in
              the nation of origin, not their ethnicity.

              Just because someone was from a Magyar village doesn't preclude them from
              being Slovak.
              Since the Surname was spelled with the Magyar (Hungarian) language
              constructs (note the "z"), it's quite likely the village will have a name
              cited in Magyar also. Looking through a number of all-Hungary village
              gazetteers which cross-reference all Magyar names, there is no exact match
              for ZAMBA, which leads me to conclude it was written incorrectly.

              Just because "ZAMBA" is in the manifest, doesn't mean it was spelled
              correctly. Here are some possibilities for you to research further:
              1. ZOMBA, is in Hungary, Tolna county, Volgysegi district. In 1910, this
              village had 1099 Magyar and 954 Germans.
              2. ZOMBOR was in Bacs-Bodrog county. IN 1910 it had 10078 Magyar, 2181
              German, 11,881 Serbian, 6093 Bunievatz
              3. ZOBOR (ZOMBOR) WAS IN Nograd County. It had 118 Magyar and 157 Slovaks.

              4. ZOMBOR - Zemplen County, Szerencs district, now called Mezozombor,
              Hungary. In 1910: 2297 Magyars. What's fishy about this one is that the
              religious breakdown is 1374 Roman Catholics, 450 Greek Catholics, 417
              Romanians. Since Greek Catholics were predominantly Rusyn, I'd want to
              investigate this one closer. Examine the neighboring villages.

              Here is a list of counties, a national map and links to a circa 1910 hi-res
              map for each county. http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/vmlista.htm You
              can use these maps to locate the above villages in their respective
              counties.

              Sources: Magyarorszag Kozigazgatasi Atlasza 1914; Genealogical Gazetteer of
              the Kingdom of Hungary, 2005; Magyar Helysegnev-Azonosito Szotar, 1996.
              Another way to back into this is to examine manifests of other people with
              the same surname. See what villages they came from. See if there is either
              a close name match or, using a map, see if the village cited is within close
              proximity of something spelled like ZOMBA.

              Clues, clues clues. We need 'em. It would also be helpful to hear what
              else you know about your GM. What was her maiden name? Religion?
              Languages spoken? Year of death? Was the village large or small? What was
              it near? What kind of work or countryside was described?
              Have you researched any papers? Marriage documents? Immigration or
              naturalization documents/files?

              More clues. I notice they traveled 2nd class. These were people of some
              means. Chances are likely if this was the case, that they may have come
              from a more populous area or city; this is traditionally where the money
              was. You might put larger towns or cities on the short list.

              Another consideration was that this was a way-station or someplace they
              lived for a short time, not necessarily their permanent residence. Another
              thing to consider is that there was a whole group from this same village,
              but what is curious is that the other folk were all going to various other
              unrelated places. Remember that records in the 1800s were did not have much
              documentation rigor, leaving a lot of room for error.

              I still like the notion of checking others with the same surnames and see
              where that takes you. That's all for now. Happy hunting!

              Regards,

              ______________
              Bill Tarkulich




              -----Original Message-----
              From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of frank.r.plichta@...
              Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 5:16 PM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [S-R] Ancestral village help


              Beverly,

              I checked my two references for Slovak communities and do not find any
              listing similar to Zamba.

              The references I checked were:
              1. Vlastivedny' Slovni'k obci' na Slovensku, Three volume set, 1978 VEDA,
              Vydavatel'stvo Slovenskej Akade'mie Vied, Bratislava. 2. Na'zvy obci'
              Slovenskej Republiky (Vy'vin V rokoch 1773-1997) VEDA, vydavatel'stvo
              Slovenskej akade'mie vied, Bratislava, 1998.

              These references are gazetteers the first published during the Communist era
              and the second a more recent update.

              Perhaps someone else can offer more constructive information. Good Luck
              Frank

              -----Original Message-----
              From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of famryd@...
              Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:47 AM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [S-R] Ancestral village help

              Hi,

              I am new to this group. This is my first posting. I was wondering if any
              of you could help me with finding out about my ggrandmother's village. I
              found
              her on the Ellis Island site with her name spelled wrong. It is Valencik but

              was spelled Valenczik.She came here 12/26/1892 from Bremen and Southampton
              with 2 children. The last place of residence was Zamba. They are Iisted as
              Hungarian but ggrandfather told relatives he was Slovak. I can't locate
              this
              village on any maps. I presented it to my Czech-Slovak group and know one
              recognizes it. Do any of you have an idea? Thank you so much.
              Sincerely, Beverly in WA state


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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            • Janet Kozlay
              My favorite website for searching out old Hungarian villages is the RADIX Index at http://www.bogardi.com/gen/. There were no less than 23 villages in 1913
              Message 6 of 9 , May 18, 2005
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                My favorite website for searching out old Hungarian villages is the RADIX
                Index at http://www.bogardi.com/gen/. There were no less than 23 villages in
                1913 Hungary with ZOMBA in their name, including four which are in
                present-day Slovakia. As Bill pointed out, many of them in present-day
                Hungary also had substantial Slovak populations.

                In addition to the Bill's suggestions, you might want to look at Pozsony
                (Hungarian name for Bratislava) megye, in far western Slovakia today. EI
                records show an Agnes Valencsik immigrating in 1912 from Szomolany and
                Rozina Valenczik (1905) and Janos Valencsik (1911) from Binocz, villages not
                far from each other in Nagyszombati district. (See map at
                http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/pozsony.jpg.)

                Janet
              • Pat and Lane Watkins
                Where did you get those wonderful maps? Are they available for purchase somewhere? Pat ... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG
                Message 7 of 9 , May 18, 2005
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                  Where did you get those wonderful maps? Are they available for purchase
                  somewhere?

                  Pat
                  ***********


                  >Here is a list of counties, a national map and links to a circa 1910 hi-res
                  >map for each county. http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/vmlista.htm You
                  >can use these maps to locate the above villages in their respective
                  >counties.


                  --
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                  Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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                • Bill Tarkulich
                  No, they are not available for purchase, but you can download and save them on your PC. They are hosted on a server owned by the Cartography department of a
                  Message 8 of 9 , May 19, 2005
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                    No, they are not available for purchase, but you can download and save them
                    on your PC. They are hosted on a server owned by the Cartography department
                    of a university in Hungary. If you have the money to spend and really want
                    a paper copy, you might want to approach Kinkos or another copy center.
                    They have the large-format printers and can create paper copies of these
                    image files. Call them first. You may not even need to bring the file,
                    just the web address (print this message) and they can look it up. Since
                    the maps were published in 1910, copyrights have expired and you are clear
                    to copy them.

                    Alternately, you can mail order a gazetteer. They are not the same notes
                    and they are bit more simplistic in their rendering (no Topo), but can be
                    equally helpful to genealogists.

                    ATLAS AND GAZETTEER OF HISTORIC HUNGARY 1914, Talma Publishing, Hungary
                    (price is presently 45 Euros)
                    Great county-by county maps of entire Hungarian Empire circa 1914-17. Index
                    of all villages along with 1914 census data: population, ethnicity and
                    religion. Magyar place names only. In Magyar, but entirely readable. I
                    use it a lot because it also contains the 1910 Census aggregates.
                    http://www.talmamedia.com/index.php

                    Good Luck,

                    ______________
                    Bill Tarkulich




                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of Pat and Lane Watkins
                    Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:25 PM
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [S-R] Maps


                    Where did you get those wonderful maps? Are they available for purchase
                    somewhere?

                    Pat
                    ***********


                    >Here is a list of counties, a national map and links to a circa 1910
                    >hi-res map for each county.
                    >http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/vmlista.htm You can use these
                    >maps to locate the above villages in their respective counties.


                    --
                    No virus found in this outgoing message.
                    Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                    Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.11 - Release Date: 5/16/2005





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