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Ancestral village help

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  • famryd@aol.com
    Hi, I am new to this group. This is my first posting. I was wondering if any of you could help me with finding out about my ggrandmother s village. I found
    Message 1 of 9 , May 17, 2005
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      Hi,

      I am new to this group. This is my first posting. I was wondering if any
      of you could help me with finding out about my ggrandmother's village. I found
      her on the Ellis Island site with her name spelled wrong. It is Valencik but
      was spelled Valenczik.She came here 12/26/1892 from Bremen and Southampton
      with 2 children. The last place of residence was Zamba. They are Iisted as
      Hungarian but ggrandfather told relatives he was Slovak. I can't locate this
      village on any maps. I presented it to my Czech-Slovak group and know one
      recognizes it. Do any of you have an idea? Thank you so much.
      Sincerely, Beverly in WA state


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • frank.r.plichta@earthlink.net
      Beverly, I checked my two references for Slovak communities and do not find any listing similar to Zamba. The references I checked were: 1. Vlastivedny
      Message 2 of 9 , May 17, 2005
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        Beverly,

        I checked my two references for Slovak communities and do not find any
        listing similar to Zamba.

        The references I checked were:
        1. Vlastivedny' Slovni'k obci' na Slovensku, Three volume set, 1978 VEDA,
        Vydavatel'stvo Slovenskej Akade'mie Vied, Bratislava.
        2. Na'zvy obci' Slovenskej Republiky (Vy'vin V rokoch 1773-1997) VEDA,
        vydavatel'stvo Slovenskej akade'mie vied, Bratislava, 1998.

        These references are gazetteers the first published during the Communist era
        and the second a more recent update.

        Perhaps someone else can offer more constructive information.
        Good Luck
        Frank

        -----Original Message-----
        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of famryd@...
        Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:47 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [S-R] Ancestral village help

        Hi,

        I am new to this group. This is my first posting. I was wondering if any
        of you could help me with finding out about my ggrandmother's village. I
        found
        her on the Ellis Island site with her name spelled wrong. It is Valencik
        but
        was spelled Valenczik.She came here 12/26/1892 from Bremen and Southampton
        with 2 children. The last place of residence was Zamba. They are Iisted as
        Hungarian but ggrandfather told relatives he was Slovak. I can't locate
        this
        village on any maps. I presented it to my Czech-Slovak group and know one
        recognizes it. Do any of you have an idea? Thank you so much.
        Sincerely, Beverly in WA state


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        To unsubscribe from this group, go to
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      • krisstrot@aol.com
        Beverly, Is it possible that this is a county instead of a village? My grandfather referred to himself as a Zipser Saxon, which I have come to understand
        Message 3 of 9 , May 17, 2005
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          Beverly,
          Is it possible that this is a county instead of a village? My grandfather referred to himself as a Zipser Saxon, which I have come to understand means that he was born and raised in the Szepes ("Zips") area of Slovakia and his ancestors originated in the Saxony region of Germany. And the spelling on Ellis Island is only as good as the person who wrote down the information in the manifest in the first place. It's interesting reading through some of those records even when you KNOW where the person was from. Most of the manifest entries for the people I am researching list them as being from Hungary, even though at that time it was technically Austro-Hungary, but actually, now, Slovakia. Some records even show them as being from Austria!! Back to the original question, it is not a hard stretch to imagine Zamba was someone's version of Zemplin, which is definitely Slovakia. I'm just guessing, but sometimes stretching beyond the obvious can open leads for us that we didn't think existed. Good luck!
          Kris

          -----Original Message-----
          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of famryd@...
          Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:47 AM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [S-R] Ancestral village help

          Hi,

          I am new to this group. This is my first posting. I was wondering if any
          of you could help me with finding out about my ggrandmother's village. I
          found
          her on the Ellis Island site with her name spelled wrong. It is Valencik
          but
          was spelled Valenczik.She came here 12/26/1892 from Bremen and Southampton
          with 2 children. The last place of residence was Zamba. They are Iisted as
          Hungarian but ggrandfather told relatives he was Slovak. I can't locate
          this
          village on any maps. I presented it to my Czech-Slovak group and know one
          recognizes it. Do any of you have an idea? Thank you so much.
          Sincerely, Beverly in WA state


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • amiak27
          Kris, On its own, knowing for sure your grandfather was a Zipser Saxon is NOT enough to be sure his family originated in Saxony! The name was generic and
          Message 4 of 9 , May 17, 2005
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            Kris,

            On its own, knowing for sure your grandfather was a Zipser Saxon is
            NOT enough to be sure his family originated in Saxony! The name was
            generic and applied to most all of the Zipsers who came from the
            Germanic lands. I suggest you look more deeply into the history of
            the German migrations and you will see they came from different
            areas of the Germanic states, including Switzerland and Austria.

            To narrow down the area where they might have come from you might do
            a search in Germany and see where the family name is common today.
            That will give you another indication of areas to look in with
            future research.
            To some Swiss all Germans are Schwaben, to some Hessians all north
            Germans are Preuss (pronounced Price). This has gone on for
            centuries ...

            Ron

            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, krisstrot@a... wrote:
            > Beverly,
            > Is it possible that this is a county instead of a village? My
            grandfather referred to himself as a Zipser Saxon, which I have come
            to understand means that he was born and raised in the Szepes
            ("Zips") area of Slovakia and his ancestors originated in the Saxony
            region of Germany. And the spelling on Ellis Island is only as good
            as the person who wrote down the information in the manifest in the
            first place. It's interesting reading through some of those records
            even when you KNOW where the person was from. Most of the manifest
            entries for the people I am researching list them as being from
            Hungary, even though at that time it was technically Austro-Hungary,
            but actually, now, Slovakia. Some records even show them as being
            from Austria!! Back to the original question, it is not a hard
            stretch to imagine Zamba was someone's version of Zemplin, which is
            definitely Slovakia. I'm just guessing, but sometimes stretching
            beyond the obvious can open leads for us that we didn't think
            existed. Good luck!
            > Kris
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
            ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
            > Behalf Of famryd@a...
            > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:47 AM
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [S-R] Ancestral village help
            >
            > Hi,
            >
            > I am new to this group. This is my first posting. I was
            wondering if any
            > of you could help me with finding out about my ggrandmother's
            village. I
            > found
            > her on the Ellis Island site with her name spelled wrong. It is
            Valencik
            > but
            > was spelled Valenczik.She came here 12/26/1892 from Bremen and
            Southampton
            > with 2 children. The last place of residence was Zamba. They are
            Iisted as
            > Hungarian but ggrandfather told relatives he was Slovak. I can't
            locate
            > this
            > village on any maps. I presented it to my Czech-Slovak group and
            know one
            > recognizes it. Do any of you have an idea? Thank you so much.
            > Sincerely, Beverly in WA state
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • nhasior@aol.com
            Hello Beverly, using the website, Shtetlseeker, there is a Zomba located in Hungary. http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm could they have been
            Message 5 of 9 , May 18, 2005
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              Hello Beverly,
              using the website, Shtetlseeker, there is a Zomba located in Hungary.
              http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm
              could they have been Slovaks who relocated in Hungary for work or other
              reasons?


              using a Google.com search for Zamba, there is one site that mentions a zamba
              dance, which is in native to Slovakia and Rumania.
              Noreen


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Bill Tarkulich
              Hello Beverly, Welcome aboard! Glad you joined us. In the era your GM immigrated, the manifests were primarily interested in the nation of origin, not their
              Message 6 of 9 , May 18, 2005
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                Hello Beverly,
                Welcome aboard! Glad you joined us.

                In the era your GM immigrated, the manifests were primarily interested in
                the nation of origin, not their ethnicity.

                Just because someone was from a Magyar village doesn't preclude them from
                being Slovak.
                Since the Surname was spelled with the Magyar (Hungarian) language
                constructs (note the "z"), it's quite likely the village will have a name
                cited in Magyar also. Looking through a number of all-Hungary village
                gazetteers which cross-reference all Magyar names, there is no exact match
                for ZAMBA, which leads me to conclude it was written incorrectly.

                Just because "ZAMBA" is in the manifest, doesn't mean it was spelled
                correctly. Here are some possibilities for you to research further:
                1. ZOMBA, is in Hungary, Tolna county, Volgysegi district. In 1910, this
                village had 1099 Magyar and 954 Germans.
                2. ZOMBOR was in Bacs-Bodrog county. IN 1910 it had 10078 Magyar, 2181
                German, 11,881 Serbian, 6093 Bunievatz
                3. ZOBOR (ZOMBOR) WAS IN Nograd County. It had 118 Magyar and 157 Slovaks.

                4. ZOMBOR - Zemplen County, Szerencs district, now called Mezozombor,
                Hungary. In 1910: 2297 Magyars. What's fishy about this one is that the
                religious breakdown is 1374 Roman Catholics, 450 Greek Catholics, 417
                Romanians. Since Greek Catholics were predominantly Rusyn, I'd want to
                investigate this one closer. Examine the neighboring villages.

                Here is a list of counties, a national map and links to a circa 1910 hi-res
                map for each county. http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/vmlista.htm You
                can use these maps to locate the above villages in their respective
                counties.

                Sources: Magyarorszag Kozigazgatasi Atlasza 1914; Genealogical Gazetteer of
                the Kingdom of Hungary, 2005; Magyar Helysegnev-Azonosito Szotar, 1996.
                Another way to back into this is to examine manifests of other people with
                the same surname. See what villages they came from. See if there is either
                a close name match or, using a map, see if the village cited is within close
                proximity of something spelled like ZOMBA.

                Clues, clues clues. We need 'em. It would also be helpful to hear what
                else you know about your GM. What was her maiden name? Religion?
                Languages spoken? Year of death? Was the village large or small? What was
                it near? What kind of work or countryside was described?
                Have you researched any papers? Marriage documents? Immigration or
                naturalization documents/files?

                More clues. I notice they traveled 2nd class. These were people of some
                means. Chances are likely if this was the case, that they may have come
                from a more populous area or city; this is traditionally where the money
                was. You might put larger towns or cities on the short list.

                Another consideration was that this was a way-station or someplace they
                lived for a short time, not necessarily their permanent residence. Another
                thing to consider is that there was a whole group from this same village,
                but what is curious is that the other folk were all going to various other
                unrelated places. Remember that records in the 1800s were did not have much
                documentation rigor, leaving a lot of room for error.

                I still like the notion of checking others with the same surnames and see
                where that takes you. That's all for now. Happy hunting!

                Regards,

                ______________
                Bill Tarkulich




                -----Original Message-----
                From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of frank.r.plichta@...
                Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 5:16 PM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [S-R] Ancestral village help


                Beverly,

                I checked my two references for Slovak communities and do not find any
                listing similar to Zamba.

                The references I checked were:
                1. Vlastivedny' Slovni'k obci' na Slovensku, Three volume set, 1978 VEDA,
                Vydavatel'stvo Slovenskej Akade'mie Vied, Bratislava. 2. Na'zvy obci'
                Slovenskej Republiky (Vy'vin V rokoch 1773-1997) VEDA, vydavatel'stvo
                Slovenskej akade'mie vied, Bratislava, 1998.

                These references are gazetteers the first published during the Communist era
                and the second a more recent update.

                Perhaps someone else can offer more constructive information. Good Luck
                Frank

                -----Original Message-----
                From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of famryd@...
                Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:47 AM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [S-R] Ancestral village help

                Hi,

                I am new to this group. This is my first posting. I was wondering if any
                of you could help me with finding out about my ggrandmother's village. I
                found
                her on the Ellis Island site with her name spelled wrong. It is Valencik but

                was spelled Valenczik.She came here 12/26/1892 from Bremen and Southampton
                with 2 children. The last place of residence was Zamba. They are Iisted as
                Hungarian but ggrandfather told relatives he was Slovak. I can't locate
                this
                village on any maps. I presented it to my Czech-Slovak group and know one
                recognizes it. Do any of you have an idea? Thank you so much.
                Sincerely, Beverly in WA state


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                To unsubscribe from this group, go to
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              • Janet Kozlay
                My favorite website for searching out old Hungarian villages is the RADIX Index at http://www.bogardi.com/gen/. There were no less than 23 villages in 1913
                Message 7 of 9 , May 18, 2005
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                  My favorite website for searching out old Hungarian villages is the RADIX
                  Index at http://www.bogardi.com/gen/. There were no less than 23 villages in
                  1913 Hungary with ZOMBA in their name, including four which are in
                  present-day Slovakia. As Bill pointed out, many of them in present-day
                  Hungary also had substantial Slovak populations.

                  In addition to the Bill's suggestions, you might want to look at Pozsony
                  (Hungarian name for Bratislava) megye, in far western Slovakia today. EI
                  records show an Agnes Valencsik immigrating in 1912 from Szomolany and
                  Rozina Valenczik (1905) and Janos Valencsik (1911) from Binocz, villages not
                  far from each other in Nagyszombati district. (See map at
                  http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/pozsony.jpg.)

                  Janet
                • Pat and Lane Watkins
                  Where did you get those wonderful maps? Are they available for purchase somewhere? Pat ... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG
                  Message 8 of 9 , May 18, 2005
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                    Where did you get those wonderful maps? Are they available for purchase
                    somewhere?

                    Pat
                    ***********


                    >Here is a list of counties, a national map and links to a circa 1910 hi-res
                    >map for each county. http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/vmlista.htm You
                    >can use these maps to locate the above villages in their respective
                    >counties.


                    --
                    No virus found in this outgoing message.
                    Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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                  • Bill Tarkulich
                    No, they are not available for purchase, but you can download and save them on your PC. They are hosted on a server owned by the Cartography department of a
                    Message 9 of 9 , May 19, 2005
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                      No, they are not available for purchase, but you can download and save them
                      on your PC. They are hosted on a server owned by the Cartography department
                      of a university in Hungary. If you have the money to spend and really want
                      a paper copy, you might want to approach Kinkos or another copy center.
                      They have the large-format printers and can create paper copies of these
                      image files. Call them first. You may not even need to bring the file,
                      just the web address (print this message) and they can look it up. Since
                      the maps were published in 1910, copyrights have expired and you are clear
                      to copy them.

                      Alternately, you can mail order a gazetteer. They are not the same notes
                      and they are bit more simplistic in their rendering (no Topo), but can be
                      equally helpful to genealogists.

                      ATLAS AND GAZETTEER OF HISTORIC HUNGARY 1914, Talma Publishing, Hungary
                      (price is presently 45 Euros)
                      Great county-by county maps of entire Hungarian Empire circa 1914-17. Index
                      of all villages along with 1914 census data: population, ethnicity and
                      religion. Magyar place names only. In Magyar, but entirely readable. I
                      use it a lot because it also contains the 1910 Census aggregates.
                      http://www.talmamedia.com/index.php

                      Good Luck,

                      ______________
                      Bill Tarkulich




                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of Pat and Lane Watkins
                      Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:25 PM
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [S-R] Maps


                      Where did you get those wonderful maps? Are they available for purchase
                      somewhere?

                      Pat
                      ***********


                      >Here is a list of counties, a national map and links to a circa 1910
                      >hi-res map for each county.
                      >http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/vmlista.htm You can use these
                      >maps to locate the above villages in their respective counties.


                      --
                      No virus found in this outgoing message.
                      Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                      Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.11 - Release Date: 5/16/2005





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