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Re: Re: [S-R] Property issues and the Courts

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  • Joyce & Bill
    I had no idea that due to immigration, etc. that there was so much unclaimed land. It has been an interesting thread. I discovered that my grandmothers
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 26 7:36 AM
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      I had no idea that due to immigration, etc. that there was so much unclaimed land. It has been an interesting thread. I discovered that my grandmothers niece and 2 nephews were listed as SPF. They are obviously dead now. Who would have the right to claim that land?
      Joyce

      >From: Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@...>
      >Date: Fri Mar 25 01:32:58 CST 2005
      >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [S-R] Property issues and the Courts

      >
      >Dear Michael,
      >I am very glad that you wrote this. I am on the waiting list at the court too, but "only" for 6 years :-)
      >This is how I would comment this:
      >There is a lack of positive Values here in Slovakia. The one that is missing here I would call " Justice Now"
      >There is "Justice" all right, but it depends upon who you are and how much you "pay" and who is your friend.
      >Maybe this could be called "Negotiable Justice"? This directly leads us to bribery etc.
      >One of my clients was a Slovak Court. I found what the female Judge wanted, but never got paid. ( a property issue too. One of the coowners is still living in the US) Sue the Court if you wish.
      >All rotten.
      >Vladimir
      >
      >One more thought:
      >If I look into the history ( with which I am dealing every day) the whole issue about properties in Slovakia always was focused on one thing: Those on power or otherwise privileged or strong positions have always ( though centuries) tried to get a hold on property, which either belonged to the poorer, uneducated, helpless, those who have been stripped citizenship, etc.
      >Two nights ago I was watching a movie called " The Pianist of Terezin" It is about an 100 years old Jewish woman, who survived the Terezin camp and now lives in UK. She was a piano player.
      >She said, that when her family was deported from Prague flat, while they still were there, in the house, the neighbors immediately came looting paintings and other movable valuables. While they were present!
      >The same happened here in Slovakia when the Jews were deported and when the Germans were deported.
      >There is a certain part of the population, which does that. And if their sons are now in Politics, they do the same.
      >With the fall of feudalism in 1848 or so, the Landlords used all kinds of tricks to make the farmers to get the worst land, so they could retain the best for themselves.
      >Some years ago I wrote this:
      >
      >The " Prussian way"
      >
      >The 1848 revolution brought no big change to the structure of the property ownership in Slovakia. At the end of the 19th century, still 53% of the farming land has been owned by only 1% of the land owners.
      >
      >The new Laws theoretically made an end to the feudal serfdom and practices, but the former Land Owners kept their land in a form of large Estates and continued with the exploitation of the poor people, who owned almost nothing, in a way, called also The Prussian way.
      >
      >Slovakia was a very typical example of a country, where this way has been fully implemented.
      >
      >Many, still feudal elements of economy have been preserved. No wonder, everything worked just fine.
      >
      >The owners needed a large number of people to work on those Estates, also called " Majer". Some of the workers on the Estates also lived there in special dwellings, often with their families. They had either a written or oral contract with the owner, that defined what , where and for how long they must work. It also defined the pay, that was mostly in natural products. The contracts were being made on Juraj (april 24th) and Michal (sept.29th).
      >
      >Since the workers did not own any production means, they were totally dependent on the Land Owner, to whom they were selling their hands.
      >
      >These conditions have been partially preserved even after the 1918 and lasted till 1945.
      >
      >Pavel Peknik, with his wife Anna Vojtek , while living in Kocin, were such people, called " Bires".
      >
      >These people were the poorest but numerous part , of the population.
      >
      >Pavel obviously tried this in the years 1890-1895, only to return to his Myjava, where he had five more children with Anna.
      >
      >Myjava was known for home made hemp sacks. Almost everybody had a weavig-loom at home. Probably he was involved in this , since the land around their home was not very good and practical for farming.
      >
      >Interestingly, if you travel Slovakia today, you will still notice very many large fields. Even the communist system, declaring itself as just and democratic, practically retained some old structures of the land ownership.
      >
      >First, there were feudals, owning large fields.
      >
      >Then there were Large Estate owners, owning large fields.
      >
      >Then there was the communist State , being a capitalist itself, owning large State Estates and the land that was supposed to belong to the little farmers, was being kept in so called Collective farms, that also had large fields and still have them.
      >
      >Again, many people were working on those collective farms which also paid them partly in natural products.
      >
      >Such forms of "payment" in natural products can be found even today.
      >
      >Lit: Encyklopedia Slovenska
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Michael Mojher
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 7:30 PM
      > Subject: [S-R] Property issues and the Courts
      >
      >
      > I have been discussing property issues with a Slovak exchange student. His mother is a lawyer in Bratislava. He said she is rather frustrated with the courts system and property issues in Slovakia. She still has property cases that she took on in the 1980's that have not been resolved. Because of this she will not accept any cases that involve property issues.
      > He said that he knows of property disputes where the individuals agree not to go to court because of they are frustrated with the court system.
      > It is his opinion that during the communist era the courts were so subservient to the will of the government they were of little use. Unlike our system where the courts are independant and have a role in the check and balance of government bodies, the Slovak court system does not. He says even the Constitutional (Supreme) Court whose judges are appointed and removed by the political party in power rarely rules against the government.
      > Can a member please reply to this issue of the court system in Slovakia.
      > Michael Mojher
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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    • Joyce & Bill
      I had no idea that due to immigration, etc. that there was so much unclaimed land. It has been an interesting thread. I discovered that my grandmothers
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 26 7:39 AM
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        I had no idea that due to immigration, etc. that there was so much unclaimed land. It has been an interesting thread. I discovered that my grandmothers niece and 2 nephews were listed as SPF. They are obviously dead now. Who would have the right to claim that land?>

        From: Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@...>
        >Date: Fri Mar 25 01:32:58 CST 2005
        >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [S-R] Property issues and the Courts

        >
        >Dear Michael,
        >I am very glad that you wrote this. I am on the waiting list at the court too, but "only" for 6 years :-)
        >This is how I would comment this:
        >There is a lack of positive Values here in Slovakia. The one that is missing here I would call " Justice Now"
        >There is "Justice" all right, but it depends upon who you are and how much you "pay" and who is your friend.
        >Maybe this could be called "Negotiable Justice"? This directly leads us to bribery etc.
        >One of my clients was a Slovak Court. I found what the female Judge wanted, but never got paid. ( a property issue too. One of the coowners is still living in the US) Sue the Court if you wish.
        >All rotten.
        >Vladimir
        >
        >One more thought:
        >If I look into the history ( with which I am dealing every day) the whole issue about properties in Slovakia always was focused on one thing: Those on power or otherwise privileged or strong positions have always ( though centuries) tried to get a hold on property, which either belonged to the poorer, uneducated, helpless, those who have been stripped citizenship, etc.
        >Two nights ago I was watching a movie called " The Pianist of Terezin" It is about an 100 years old Jewish woman, who survived the Terezin camp and now lives in UK. She was a piano player.
        >She said, that when her family was deported from Prague flat, while they still were there, in the house, the neighbors immediately came looting paintings and other movable valuables. While they were present!
        >The same happened here in Slovakia when the Jews were deported and when the Germans were deported.
        >There is a certain part of the population, which does that. And if their sons are now in Politics, they do the same.
        >With the fall of feudalism in 1848 or so, the Landlords used all kinds of tricks to make the farmers to get the worst land, so they could retain the best for themselves.
        >Some years ago I wrote this:
        >
        >The " Prussian way"
        >
        >The 1848 revolution brought no big change to the structure of the property ownership in Slovakia. At the end of the 19th century, still 53% of the farming land has been owned by only 1% of the land owners.
        >
        >The new Laws theoretically made an end to the feudal serfdom and practices, but the former Land Owners kept their land in a form of large Estates and continued with the exploitation of the poor people, who owned almost nothing, in a way, called also The Prussian way.
        >
        >Slovakia was a very typical example of a country, where this way has been fully implemented.
        >
        >Many, still feudal elements of economy have been preserved. No wonder, everything worked just fine.
        >
        >The owners needed a large number of people to work on those Estates, also called " Majer". Some of the workers on the Estates also lived there in special dwellings, often with their families. They had either a written or oral contract with the owner, that defined what , where and for how long they must work. It also defined the pay, that was mostly in natural products. The contracts were being made on Juraj (april 24th) and Michal (sept.29th).
        >
        >Since the workers did not own any production means, they were totally dependent on the Land Owner, to whom they were selling their hands.
        >
        >These conditions have been partially preserved even after the 1918 and lasted till 1945.
        >
        >Pavel Peknik, with his wife Anna Vojtek , while living in Kocin, were such people, called " Bires".
        >
        >These people were the poorest but numerous part , of the population.
        >
        >Pavel obviously tried this in the years 1890-1895, only to return to his Myjava, where he had five more children with Anna.
        >
        >Myjava was known for home made hemp sacks. Almost everybody had a weavig-loom at home. Probably he was involved in this , since the land around their home was not very good and practical for farming.
        >
        >Interestingly, if you travel Slovakia today, you will still notice very many large fields. Even the communist system, declaring itself as just and democratic, practically retained some old structures of the land ownership.
        >
        >First, there were feudals, owning large fields.
        >
        >Then there were Large Estate owners, owning large fields.
        >
        >Then there was the communist State , being a capitalist itself, owning large State Estates and the land that was supposed to belong to the little farmers, was being kept in so called Collective farms, that also had large fields and still have them.
        >
        >Again, many people were working on those collective farms which also paid them partly in natural products.
        >
        >Such forms of "payment" in natural products can be found even today.
        >
        >Lit: Encyklopedia Slovenska
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Michael Mojher
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 7:30 PM
        > Subject: [S-R] Property issues and the Courts
        >
        >
        > I have been discussing property issues with a Slovak exchange student. His mother is a lawyer in Bratislava. He said she is rather frustrated with the courts system and property issues in Slovakia. She still has property cases that she took on in the 1980's that have not been resolved. Because of this she will not accept any cases that involve property issues.
        > He said that he knows of property disputes where the individuals agree not to go to court because of they are frustrated with the court system.
        > It is his opinion that during the communist era the courts were so subservient to the will of the government they were of little use. Unlike our system where the courts are independant and have a role in the check and balance of government bodies, the Slovak court system does not. He says even the Constitutional (Supreme) Court whose judges are appointed and removed by the political party in power rarely rules against the government.
        > Can a member please reply to this issue of the court system in Slovakia.
        > Michael Mojher
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > ADVERTISEMENT
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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        >
        > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
        >
        > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        >
        >
        >
        > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.1034 (20050324) __________
        >
        > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
        > http://www.eset.sk
        >
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
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        >
      • Bill Tarkulich
        All the people who are named as co-owners. Because it s been so long, state inheritance laws significantly diminish the portion of ownership that is your
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 26 7:48 AM
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          All the people who are named as co-owners. Because it's been so long, state
          inheritance laws significantly diminish the portion of ownership that is
          your ancestors. It is highly probably it is a small fraction. That,
          combined with dozens or more of co-owners makes it quite nearly impossible
          to do anything with, since coming to mutual agreement amongst as many as 50
          separate fractional owners is tyranny. You can submit a "claim" but don't
          expect to get much more than your name written onto the list.

          See Peter Nagy on the procedure for filing a claim.

          ______________
          Bill Tarkulich




          -----Original Message-----
          From: Joyce & Bill [mailto:bhewlett@...]
          Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 10:36 AM
          To: Vladimir Bohinc; SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: Re: [S-R] Property issues and the Courts



          I had no idea that due to immigration, etc. that there was so much unclaimed
          land. It has been an interesting thread. I discovered that my
          grandmothers niece and 2 nephews were listed as SPF. They are obviously
          dead now. Who would have the right to claim that land?
          Joyce

          >From: Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@...>
          >Date: Fri Mar 25 01:32:58 CST 2005
          >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: Re: [S-R] Property issues and the Courts

          >
          >Dear Michael,
          >I am very glad that you wrote this. I am on the waiting list at the
          >court too, but "only" for 6 years :-) This is how I would comment this:
          >There is a lack of positive Values here in Slovakia. The one that is
          >missing here I would call " Justice Now" There is "Justice" all right,
          >but it depends upon who you are and how much you "pay" and who is your
          >friend. Maybe this could be called "Negotiable Justice"? This directly
          >leads us to bribery etc. One of my clients was a Slovak Court. I found
          >what the female Judge wanted, but never got paid. ( a property issue
          >too. One of the coowners is still living in the US) Sue the Court if
          >you wish. All rotten. Vladimir
          >
          >One more thought:
          >If I look into the history ( with which I am dealing every day) the
          >whole issue about properties in Slovakia always was focused on one thing:
          Those on power or otherwise privileged or strong positions have always (
          though centuries) tried to get a hold on property, which either belonged to
          the poorer, uneducated, helpless, those who have been stripped citizenship,
          etc.
          >Two nights ago I was watching a movie called " The Pianist of Terezin" It
          is about an 100 years old Jewish woman, who survived the Terezin camp and
          now lives in UK. She was a piano player.
          >She said, that when her family was deported from Prague flat, while they
          still were there, in the house, the neighbors immediately came looting
          paintings and other movable valuables. While they were present!
          >The same happened here in Slovakia when the Jews were deported and when the
          Germans were deported.
          >There is a certain part of the population, which does that. And if their
          sons are now in Politics, they do the same.
          >With the fall of feudalism in 1848 or so, the Landlords used all kinds of
          tricks to make the farmers to get the worst land, so they could retain the
          best for themselves.
          >Some years ago I wrote this:
          >
          >The " Prussian way"
          >
          >The 1848 revolution brought no big change to the structure of the
          >property ownership in Slovakia. At the end of the 19th century, still
          >53% of the farming land has been owned by only 1% of the land owners.
          >
          >The new Laws theoretically made an end to the feudal serfdom and
          >practices, but the former Land Owners kept their land in a form of
          >large Estates and continued with the exploitation of the poor people,
          >who owned almost nothing, in a way, called also The Prussian way.
          >
          >Slovakia was a very typical example of a country, where this way has
          >been fully implemented.
          >
          >Many, still feudal elements of economy have been preserved. No wonder,
          >everything worked just fine.
          >
          >The owners needed a large number of people to work on those Estates,
          >also called " Majer". Some of the workers on the Estates also lived
          >there in special dwellings, often with their families. They had either
          >a written or oral contract with the owner, that defined what , where
          >and for how long they must work. It also defined the pay, that was
          >mostly in natural products. The contracts were being made on Juraj
          >(april 24th) and Michal (sept.29th).
          >
          >Since the workers did not own any production means, they were totally
          >dependent on the Land Owner, to whom they were selling their hands.
          >
          >These conditions have been partially preserved even after the 1918 and
          >lasted till 1945.
          >
          >Pavel Peknik, with his wife Anna Vojtek , while living in Kocin, were
          >such people, called " Bires".
          >
          >These people were the poorest but numerous part , of the population.
          >
          >Pavel obviously tried this in the years 1890-1895, only to return to
          >his Myjava, where he had five more children with Anna.
          >
          >Myjava was known for home made hemp sacks. Almost everybody had a
          >weavig-loom at home. Probably he was involved in this , since the land
          >around their home was not very good and practical for farming.
          >
          >Interestingly, if you travel Slovakia today, you will still notice very
          >many large fields. Even the communist system, declaring itself as just
          >and democratic, practically retained some old structures of the land
          >ownership.
          >
          >First, there were feudals, owning large fields.
          >
          >Then there were Large Estate owners, owning large fields.
          >
          >Then there was the communist State , being a capitalist itself, owning
          >large State Estates and the land that was supposed to belong to the
          >little farmers, was being kept in so called Collective farms, that also
          >had large fields and still have them.
          >
          >Again, many people were working on those collective farms which also
          >paid them partly in natural products.
          >
          >Such forms of "payment" in natural products can be found even today.
          >
          >Lit: Encyklopedia Slovenska
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Michael Mojher
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 7:30 PM
          > Subject: [S-R] Property issues and the Courts
          >
          >
          > I have been discussing property issues with a Slovak exchange
          student. His mother is a lawyer in Bratislava. He said she is rather
          frustrated with the courts system and property issues in Slovakia. She still
          has property cases that she took on in the 1980's that have not been
          resolved. Because of this she will not accept any cases that involve
          property issues.
          > He said that he knows of property disputes where the individuals
          agree not to go to court because of they are frustrated with the court
          system.
          > It is his opinion that during the communist era the courts were so
          subservient to the will of the government they were of little use. Unlike
          our system where the courts are independant and have a role in the check and
          balance of government bodies, the Slovak court system does not. He says even
          the Constitutional (Supreme) Court whose judges are appointed and removed by
          the political party in power rarely rules against the government.
          > Can a member please reply to this issue of the court system in
          > Slovakia. Michael Mojher
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
          > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
          > to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > ADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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          >
          > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
          >
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          > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          > Service.
          >
          >
          >
          > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.1034 (20050324) __________
          >
          > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
          > http://www.eset.sk
          >
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
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        • Joyce & Bill
          ... That, ... The 3 names were listed on one property page as # 3, 4, and 5. I did see some that had huge numbers of co-owners, but they appear to be the only
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 26 8:09 AM
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            >From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
            >Date: Sat Mar 26 09:48:42 CST 2005
            >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: RE: Re: [S-R] Property issues and the Courts
            >
            That,
            >combined with dozens or more of co-owners makes it quite nearly impossible
            >to do anything with, since coming to mutual agreement amongst as many as 50
            >separate fractional owners is tyranny.
            >Bill Tarkulich

            The 3 names were listed on one property page as # 3, 4, and 5. I did see some that had huge numbers of co-owners, but they appear to be the only ones for that property.
            >
            >Joyce
            >
            >
            >-----Original Message-----
            >From: Joyce & Bill [mailto:bhewlett@...]
            >Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 10:36 AM
            >To: Vladimir Bohinc; SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: Re: [S-R] Property issues and the Courts
            >
            >
            >
            >I had no idea that due to immigration, etc. that there was so much unclaimed
            >land. It has been an interesting thread. I discovered that my
            >grandmothers niece and 2 nephews were listed as SPF. They are obviously
            >dead now. Who would have the right to claim that land?
            >Joyce
            >
            >>From: Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@...>
            >>Date: Fri Mar 25 01:32:58 CST 2005
            >>To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            >>Subject: Re: [S-R] Property issues and the Courts
            >
            >>
            >>Dear Michael,
            >>I am very glad that you wrote this. I am on the waiting list at the
            >>court too, but "only" for 6 years :-) This is how I would comment this:
            >>There is a lack of positive Values here in Slovakia. The one that is
            >>missing here I would call " Justice Now" There is "Justice" all right,
            >>but it depends upon who you are and how much you "pay" and who is your
            >>friend. Maybe this could be called "Negotiable Justice"? This directly
            >>leads us to bribery etc. One of my clients was a Slovak Court. I found
            >>what the female Judge wanted, but never got paid. ( a property issue
            >>too. One of the coowners is still living in the US) Sue the Court if
            >>you wish. All rotten. Vladimir
            >>
            >>One more thought:
            >>If I look into the history ( with which I am dealing every day) the
            >>whole issue about properties in Slovakia always was focused on one thing:
            >Those on power or otherwise privileged or strong positions have always (
            >though centuries) tried to get a hold on property, which either belonged to
            >the poorer, uneducated, helpless, those who have been stripped citizenship,
            >etc.
            >>Two nights ago I was watching a movie called " The Pianist of Terezin" It
            >is about an 100 years old Jewish woman, who survived the Terezin camp and
            >now lives in UK. She was a piano player.
            >>She said, that when her family was deported from Prague flat, while they
            >still were there, in the house, the neighbors immediately came looting
            >paintings and other movable valuables. While they were present!
            >>The same happened here in Slovakia when the Jews were deported and when the
            >Germans were deported.
            >>There is a certain part of the population, which does that. And if their
            >sons are now in Politics, they do the same.
            >>With the fall of feudalism in 1848 or so, the Landlords used all kinds of
            >tricks to make the farmers to get the worst land, so they could retain the
            >best for themselves.
            >>Some years ago I wrote this:
            >>
            >>The " Prussian way"
            >>
            >>The 1848 revolution brought no big change to the structure of the
            >>property ownership in Slovakia. At the end of the 19th century, still
            >>53% of the farming land has been owned by only 1% of the land owners.
            >>
            >>The new Laws theoretically made an end to the feudal serfdom and
            >>practices, but the former Land Owners kept their land in a form of
            >>large Estates and continued with the exploitation of the poor people,
            >>who owned almost nothing, in a way, called also The Prussian way.
            >>
            >>Slovakia was a very typical example of a country, where this way has
            >>been fully implemented.
            >>
            >>Many, still feudal elements of economy have been preserved. No wonder,
            >>everything worked just fine.
            >>
            >>The owners needed a large number of people to work on those Estates,
            >>also called " Majer". Some of the workers on the Estates also lived
            >>there in special dwellings, often with their families. They had either
            >>a written or oral contract with the owner, that defined what , where
            >>and for how long they must work. It also defined the pay, that was
            >>mostly in natural products. The contracts were being made on Juraj
            >>(april 24th) and Michal (sept.29th).
            >>
            >>Since the workers did not own any production means, they were totally
            >>dependent on the Land Owner, to whom they were selling their hands.
            >>
            >>These conditions have been partially preserved even after the 1918 and
            >>lasted till 1945.
            >>
            >>Pavel Peknik, with his wife Anna Vojtek , while living in Kocin, were
            >>such people, called " Bires".
            >>
            >>These people were the poorest but numerous part , of the population.
            >>
            >>Pavel obviously tried this in the years 1890-1895, only to return to
            >>his Myjava, where he had five more children with Anna.
            >>
            >>Myjava was known for home made hemp sacks. Almost everybody had a
            >>weavig-loom at home. Probably he was involved in this , since the land
            >>around their home was not very good and practical for farming.
            >>
            >>Interestingly, if you travel Slovakia today, you will still notice very
            >>many large fields. Even the communist system, declaring itself as just
            >>and democratic, practically retained some old structures of the land
            >>ownership.
            >>
            >>First, there were feudals, owning large fields.
            >>
            >>Then there were Large Estate owners, owning large fields.
            >>
            >>Then there was the communist State , being a capitalist itself, owning
            >>large State Estates and the land that was supposed to belong to the
            >>little farmers, was being kept in so called Collective farms, that also
            >>had large fields and still have them.
            >>
            >>Again, many people were working on those collective farms which also
            >>paid them partly in natural products.
            >>
            >>Such forms of "payment" in natural products can be found even today.
            >>
            >>Lit: Encyklopedia Slovenska
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> ----- Original Message -----
            >> From: Michael Mojher
            >> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            >> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 7:30 PM
            >> Subject: [S-R] Property issues and the Courts
            >>
            >>
            >> I have been discussing property issues with a Slovak exchange
            >student. His mother is a lawyer in Bratislava. He said she is rather
            >frustrated with the courts system and property issues in Slovakia. She still
            >has property cases that she took on in the 1980's that have not been
            >resolved. Because of this she will not accept any cases that involve
            >property issues.
            >> He said that he knows of property disputes where the individuals
            >agree not to go to court because of they are frustrated with the court
            >system.
            >> It is his opinion that during the communist era the courts were so
            >subservient to the will of the government they were of little use. Unlike
            >our system where the courts are independant and have a role in the check and
            >balance of government bodies, the Slovak court system does not. He says even
            >the Constitutional (Supreme) Court whose judges are appointed and removed by
            >the political party in power rarely rules against the government.
            >> Can a member please reply to this issue of the court system in
            >> Slovakia. Michael Mojher
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
            >> to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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            >>
            >> Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
            >> http://www.eset.sk
            >>
            >>
            >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
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          • Vladimir Bohinc
            Dear Joyce, A rightful Heir. The rest is Calvaria. Vladimir ... From: Joyce & Bill To: Vladimir Bohinc ; SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 26,
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 26 8:46 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              Dear Joyce,
              A rightful Heir.
              The rest is Calvaria.
              Vladimir

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Joyce & Bill
              To: Vladimir Bohinc ; SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 4:36 PM
              Subject: Re: Re: [S-R] Property issues and the Courts


              I had no idea that due to immigration, etc. that there was so much unclaimed land. It has been an interesting thread. I discovered that my grandmothers niece and 2 nephews were listed as SPF. They are obviously dead now. Who would have the right to claim that land?
              Joyce

              >From: Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@...>
              >Date: Fri Mar 25 01:32:58 CST 2005
              >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [S-R] Property issues and the Courts

              >
              >Dear Michael,
              >I am very glad that you wrote this. I am on the waiting list at the court too, but "only" for 6 years :-)
              >This is how I would comment this:
              >There is a lack of positive Values here in Slovakia. The one that is missing here I would call " Justice Now"
              >There is "Justice" all right, but it depends upon who you are and how much you "pay" and who is your friend.
              >Maybe this could be called "Negotiable Justice"? This directly leads us to bribery etc.
              >One of my clients was a Slovak Court. I found what the female Judge wanted, but never got paid. ( a property issue too. One of the coowners is still living in the US) Sue the Court if you wish.
              >All rotten.
              >Vladimir
              >
              >One more thought:
              >If I look into the history ( with which I am dealing every day) the whole issue about properties in Slovakia always was focused on one thing: Those on power or otherwise privileged or strong positions have always ( though centuries) tried to get a hold on property, which either belonged to the poorer, uneducated, helpless, those who have been stripped citizenship, etc.
              >Two nights ago I was watching a movie called " The Pianist of Terezin" It is about an 100 years old Jewish woman, who survived the Terezin camp and now lives in UK. She was a piano player.
              >She said, that when her family was deported from Prague flat, while they still were there, in the house, the neighbors immediately came looting paintings and other movable valuables. While they were present!
              >The same happened here in Slovakia when the Jews were deported and when the Germans were deported.
              >There is a certain part of the population, which does that. And if their sons are now in Politics, they do the same.
              >With the fall of feudalism in 1848 or so, the Landlords used all kinds of tricks to make the farmers to get the worst land, so they could retain the best for themselves.
              >Some years ago I wrote this:
              >
              >The " Prussian way"
              >
              >The 1848 revolution brought no big change to the structure of the property ownership in Slovakia. At the end of the 19th century, still 53% of the farming land has been owned by only 1% of the land owners.
              >
              >The new Laws theoretically made an end to the feudal serfdom and practices, but the former Land Owners kept their land in a form of large Estates and continued with the exploitation of the poor people, who owned almost nothing, in a way, called also The Prussian way.
              >
              >Slovakia was a very typical example of a country, where this way has been fully implemented.
              >
              >Many, still feudal elements of economy have been preserved. No wonder, everything worked just fine.
              >
              >The owners needed a large number of people to work on those Estates, also called " Majer". Some of the workers on the Estates also lived there in special dwellings, often with their families. They had either a written or oral contract with the owner, that defined what , where and for how long they must work. It also defined the pay, that was mostly in natural products. The contracts were being made on Juraj (april 24th) and Michal (sept.29th).
              >
              >Since the workers did not own any production means, they were totally dependent on the Land Owner, to whom they were selling their hands.
              >
              >These conditions have been partially preserved even after the 1918 and lasted till 1945.
              >
              >Pavel Peknik, with his wife Anna Vojtek , while living in Kocin, were such people, called " Bires".
              >
              >These people were the poorest but numerous part , of the population.
              >
              >Pavel obviously tried this in the years 1890-1895, only to return to his Myjava, where he had five more children with Anna.
              >
              >Myjava was known for home made hemp sacks. Almost everybody had a weavig-loom at home. Probably he was involved in this , since the land around their home was not very good and practical for farming.
              >
              >Interestingly, if you travel Slovakia today, you will still notice very many large fields. Even the communist system, declaring itself as just and democratic, practically retained some old structures of the land ownership.
              >
              >First, there were feudals, owning large fields.
              >
              >Then there were Large Estate owners, owning large fields.
              >
              >Then there was the communist State , being a capitalist itself, owning large State Estates and the land that was supposed to belong to the little farmers, was being kept in so called Collective farms, that also had large fields and still have them.
              >
              >Again, many people were working on those collective farms which also paid them partly in natural products.
              >
              >Such forms of "payment" in natural products can be found even today.
              >
              >Lit: Encyklopedia Slovenska
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Michael Mojher
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 7:30 PM
              > Subject: [S-R] Property issues and the Courts
              >
              >
              > I have been discussing property issues with a Slovak exchange student. His mother is a lawyer in Bratislava. He said she is rather frustrated with the courts system and property issues in Slovakia. She still has property cases that she took on in the 1980's that have not been resolved. Because of this she will not accept any cases that involve property issues.
              > He said that he knows of property disputes where the individuals agree not to go to court because of they are frustrated with the court system.
              > It is his opinion that during the communist era the courts were so subservient to the will of the government they were of little use. Unlike our system where the courts are independant and have a role in the check and balance of government bodies, the Slovak court system does not. He says even the Constitutional (Supreme) Court whose judges are appointed and removed by the political party in power rarely rules against the government.
              > Can a member please reply to this issue of the court system in Slovakia.
              > Michael Mojher
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
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              > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
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              >
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              >
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              >
              > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
              > http://www.eset.sk
              >
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
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            • Peter Nagy
              Dear Joyce, ... It is still possible, that there are also numbers 6, 7, ..., 59, .... Actually you need to see first the List vlastnictva in order to know
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 26 1:18 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                Dear Joyce,

                You wrote:

                > The 3 names were listed on one property page as # 3, 4, and 5.

                It is still possible, that there are also numbers 6, 7, ..., 59, ....

                Actually you need to see first the "List vlastnictva" in order to know
                the size of the plot and the shares of the co-owners number 3, 4, and 5.
                The claim is to be submitted by the rightful heirs - Vladimir already
                wrote it.

                In most cases it is not "economic" to submit a claim. The information
                included in the "List vlastnictva" is more valuable as a snapshot of the
                property distribution and family relations in the past.

                I already explained you in a private message dated 16 March 2005, that
                it is not possible to get the "List vlastnictva" (property sheet) free
                of charge.

                Peter


                --
                Cilistovska 20
                931 01 Samorin
                Slovak Republic

                tel: +421 31 560 0641
                mobile: +421 905 490 552
                http://www.centroconsult.sk
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