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Re: [S-R] Property issues

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  • amiak27
    Vlad, a request for another observation on your part: When living in Germany I noted the politics in declaring (rezoning) agricultural land to housing
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 22, 2005
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      Vlad, a request for another observation on your part: When living
      in Germany I noted the politics in declaring (rezoning) agricultural
      land to housing construction land. It seemed friends of the mayor
      were favored with the rezoning. The price went up by a factor of 10
      with this new status of the land. Is the relative price of agrarian
      land to construction land 1:2, 1:5 or 1:10 in Slovakia, or cansuch a
      comparison be made at all?? Thanks in advance.

      Ron

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Vladimir Bohinc"
      <konekta@n...> wrote:
      > Dear Bill,
      > I don't know. I would have to ask somebody involved, but you may
      expect this to vary so much, that one would have to make several
      checks to figure out an approximate average value.
      > Regarding the land and brokers; if the land is or can be turned
      into construction land, then they have interest. If it's only fields
      or pastures, then they usually are not interested. The one who might
      be interested is the neighbor.
      > Some of you have seen slovak villages, how they are suffocated
      with large fields. All these fields are called Extravilan, and you
      can not build a house there. So there was a great shortage of
      construction land. Usually einther an old house was torn down and a
      new built or a new house was built on the other end of the garden.
      > Nowadays, investors are already turning fileds and pastures into
      construction land.
      > Vladimir
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Bill Tarkulich
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 12:43 AM
      > Subject: RE: [S-R] Property issues
      >
      >
      > Hello Peter and Vladimir,
      >
      > It might be instructive to those unfamiliar with the Slovak
      Republic economy
      > for you to give them a sense of the monetary value we are
      talking about.
      > What is the typical sales price (or range or average) that
      people are
      > receiving for their cooperative shares?
      >
      > By the way, my cousins in northeastern Slovakia advise me that
      land sales in
      > their region are not handled by brokers, at least not those
      sales in small
      > remote villages. Perhaps there is not enough of a "market" to
      make it
      > worthwhile?
      >
      > ______________
      > Bill Tarkulich
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: centroco@s... [mailto:centroco@s...] On Behalf Of Peter
      > Nagy
      > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 10:24 AM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Property issues
      >
      >
      >
      > Dear all,
      >
      > Vladimir has shown a typical example, how Slovakia is
      transforming. My
      > mother in law sold her shares in the cooperative for 20% of
      nominal
      > value, thus it was a good business comparing with Cachtice. I do
      not
      > remember if Vladimir described, what are these shares. In about
      1991 the
      > former agricultural cooperatives were transformed to new
      entities. There
      > were meetings of all cooperative members and landowners and they
      had to
      > decide, if the cooperative should be transformed to the new
      cooperative
      > or to a Ltd. Of course, in 1991 nobody had any imaginations,
      what does
      > it mean. Obligatory part of the transformation process was the
      > evaluation of the cooperative. It included the buildings, the
      animals,
      > the machines, the stocks, etc., but not the land! In
      Czechoslovakia in
      > most cases the cooperatives were not owners of the land, which
      they
      > cultivated. Of course, the cooperative produced this property on
      the
      > foreign land. In order to compensate the land owners for 40
      years of
      > free land use by the cooperatives, the land owners or their
      heirs got a
      > special securities (shares, podielnicke listy) which were
      intended to
      > pay in cash in 10 years. Later Mr. Meciar changed the law and
      the
      > cooperatives were not obliged any more to pay the financial
      compensation
      > for the land owners - this was the true robbery.
      These "podielnicke
      > listy" were long time considered as piece of paper without any
      value.
      > Only in present a market for these securities is emerging again.
      The
      > market value of the cooperative shares were due to Meciar's
      intervention
      > 0%, now they are between 10-20 % of the nominal value.
      >
      > I have to add, that this did not tackle the land ownership. The
      land
      > ownership is another story.
      >
      > Peter
      >
      > --
      > Cilistovska 20
      > 931 01 Samorin
      > Slovak Republic
      >
      > tel: +421 31 560 0641
      > mobile: +421 905 490 552
      > http://www.centroconsult.sk
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
      email to
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    • nhasior@aol.com
      Bill, Looking at a map, Wetlina is certainly at the crossroads. It is about as close as you can be to the boundary of the three countries of Poland, Slovakia
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 23, 2005
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        Bill,
        Looking at a map, Wetlina is certainly at the crossroads. It is about as
        close as you can be to the boundary of the three countries of Poland, Slovakia
        and Ukraine.
        Noreen


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bill Tarkulich
        Noreen, I ve studied Wetlina at great lengths and have walked its borders. ______________ Bill Tarkulich ... From: nhasior@aol.com [mailto:nhasior@aol.com]
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 23, 2005
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          Noreen,

          I've studied Wetlina at great lengths and have walked its borders.

          ______________
          Bill Tarkulich




          -----Original Message-----
          From: nhasior@... [mailto:nhasior@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 5:42 AM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] Property issues



          Bill,
          Looking at a map, Wetlina is certainly at the crossroads. It is about as
          close as you can be to the boundary of the three countries of Poland,
          Slovakia
          and Ukraine.
          Noreen


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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        • Bill Tarkulich
          Over 200 villages were victims of Operation Vistula, beyond Lesko, Poland to the Northwest. These village were all a part of the Austrian castradal system. I
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 23, 2005
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            Over 200 villages were victims of Operation Vistula, beyond Lesko, Poland to
            the Northwest.
            These village were all a part of the Austrian castradal system.

            I have Austrian castradal maps for volume two of the Bieszczady Slownik
            Historyczno-Krajaozoznawcy, Gmina Cisna region.

            Perhaps I've missed your point - you don't refer to which comment of mine
            you are commenting on.

            ______________
            Bill Tarkulich




            -----Original Message-----
            From: nhasior@... [mailto:nhasior@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 5:42 AM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Property issues



            Bill,
            Looking at a map, Wetlina is certainly at the crossroads. It is about as
            close as you can be to the boundary of the three countries of Poland,
            Slovakia
            and Ukraine.
            Noreen


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
            SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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          • Vladimir Bohinc
            Dear Bill, Many thanks. No need to sit down; I was referring to the monthly salary and you are referring to the year s salary. It used to be, that the ratio
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 24, 2005
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              Dear Bill,
              Many thanks.
              No need to sit down; I was referring to the monthly salary and you are referring to the year's salary.
              It used to be, that the ratio between Slovakia and let us say Austria, which has very good salaries, was 1:10.
              Here are some links where you can see the prices.
              The ratio between the agricultural land and construction land price can be 1:100.
              http://www.trh.sk/

              http://reality.dct.sk/

              http://nehnutelnosti.residence.sk/domy-byty-pozemky.jsp

              http://www.realitymdt.sk/pozemky.php

              http://www.reality-slovensko.sk/slovak/1_predaj/nehnutelnosti.html

              All this market is not mature yet.

              If you need a special vocabulary for surfing or understanding slovak real estate sites, let me know.

              regards,

              Vladimir



              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Bill Tarkulich
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 8:58 PM
              Subject: Re: Re: [S-R] Property issues


              It's quite well understood that there is subjective variance in everything. I understand the distiction between house size, quality, age and location. But we can still make a useful comparison.

              Sit down Vladimir... Average 2002 US wage was US$35,560
              (source: US Bureau of Labor & Statistics) Some people make minimum wage of US$11,000, few make US$70,000 fewer make more than US$100,000. The smallest condominium or trailer may go for US$45,000, 2 bedrooms houses go for US$60K in slow economic areas, places like San Diego the same 2 bedroom house goes for $500,000.

              That's why I think this comparison is so meaningful. Even if we are at +/- 50% soviet prices, the relative comparison is still dramatic and educational enough. I'm not trying to get precision here.

              Bill

              >
              > From: "Vladimir Bohinc" <konekta@...>
              > Date: 2005/03/22 Tue PM 02:34:21 EST
              > To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: Re: Re: [S-R] Property issues
              >
              >
              > Dear Bill,
              > If you want to compare correctly, you have to compare with average salary. How many average salaries for a home.
              > The home prices below are not correct.
              > A flat in Bratislava about 3M Sk yes, but not a home. These are much more expensive in Bratislava.
              > And, if you are talking homes, they can be 100 years old or new. Not possible to make such a simple comparison.
              > A 30 years old home around Bratislava would be 1.7 to 2.5 MSk.
              > But again, Bratislava is absolutely not representative for the country.
              > If you want some links on that, I can find some for you tomorrow and you can see the prices all over the country.
              > I don't know, whether the Slovak average salary is already $400. probably not far from there. And the US is how much?
              > $2500?
              > Vladimir
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Bill Tarkulich
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 7:42 PM
              > Subject: Re: Re: [S-R] Property issues
              >
              >
              > Your comments about variablity apply of course. Supply, demand and strategic importance.
              >
              > "Using the benchmarck of a two-bedroom residential home, Fedoroňko estimated that the average dwelling in Bratislava city proper was presently listed at between two and three million Slovak crowns ($45,000-$60,000), while a similar house within 15 kilometers of the city centre was 1.5-2 million crowns ($30,000-$45,000) and beyond 30 kilometers of the capital below 500,000 crowns ($12,000)." Slovak Spectator, June, 1999. [ 50 SKK = 1 USD in 1999 ]
              >
              > I just want people to get an appreciation for the relative economics, since the 2004 U. S. median sales price of a home is 218,000USD (7,433.423SKK) [ 30 SKK = 1 USD in 3/2005]
              >
              >
              >
              > >
              > > From: "Vladimir Bohinc" <konekta@...>
              > > Date: 2005/03/22 Tue AM 11:58:43 EST
              > > To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Property issues
              > >
              > >
              > > Dear Bill,
              > > I don't know. I would have to ask somebody involved, but you may expect this to vary so much, that one would have to make several checks to figure out an approximate average value.
              > > Regarding the land and brokers; if the land is or can be turned into construction land, then they have interest. If it's only fields or pastures, then they usually are not interested. The one who might be interested is the neighbor.
              > > Some of you have seen slovak villages, how they are suffocated with large fields. All these fields are called Extravilan, and you can not build a house there. So there was a great shortage of construction land. Usually einther an old house was torn down and a new built or a new house was built on the other end of the garden.
              > > Nowadays, investors are already turning fileds and pastures into construction land.
              > > Vladimir
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: Bill Tarkulich
              > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 12:43 AM
              > > Subject: RE: [S-R] Property issues
              > >
              > >
              > > Hello Peter and Vladimir,
              > >
              > > It might be instructive to those unfamiliar with the Slovak Republic economy
              > > for you to give them a sense of the monetary value we are talking about.
              > > What is the typical sales price (or range or average) that people are
              > > receiving for their cooperative shares?
              > >
              > > By the way, my cousins in northeastern Slovakia advise me that land sales in
              > > their region are not handled by brokers, at least not those sales in small
              > > remote villages. Perhaps there is not enough of a "market" to make it
              > > worthwhile?
              > >
              > > ______________
              > > Bill Tarkulich
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: centroco@... [mailto:centroco@...] On Behalf Of Peter
              > > Nagy
              > > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 10:24 AM
              > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Property issues
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Dear all,
              > >
              > > Vladimir has shown a typical example, how Slovakia is transforming. My
              > > mother in law sold her shares in the cooperative for 20% of nominal
              > > value, thus it was a good business comparing with Cachtice. I do not
              > > remember if Vladimir described, what are these shares. In about 1991 the
              > > former agricultural cooperatives were transformed to new entities. There
              > > were meetings of all cooperative members and landowners and they had to
              > > decide, if the cooperative should be transformed to the new cooperative
              > > or to a Ltd. Of course, in 1991 nobody had any imaginations, what does
              > > it mean. Obligatory part of the transformation process was the
              > > evaluation of the cooperative. It included the buildings, the animals,
              > > the machines, the stocks, etc., but not the land! In Czechoslovakia in
              > > most cases the cooperatives were not owners of the land, which they
              > > cultivated. Of course, the cooperative produced this property on the
              > > foreign land. In order to compensate the land owners for 40 years of
              > > free land use by the cooperatives, the land owners or their heirs got a
              > > special securities (shares, podielnicke listy) which were intended to
              > > pay in cash in 10 years. Later Mr. Meciar changed the law and the
              > > cooperatives were not obliged any more to pay the financial compensation
              > > for the land owners - this was the true robbery. These "podielnicke
              > > listy" were long time considered as piece of paper without any value.
              > > Only in present a market for these securities is emerging again. The
              > > market value of the cooperative shares were due to Meciar's intervention
              > > 0%, now they are between 10-20 % of the nominal value.
              > >
              > > I have to add, that this did not tackle the land ownership. The land
              > > ownership is another story.
              > >
              > > Peter
              > >
              > > --
              > > Cilistovska 20
              > > 931 01 Samorin
              > > Slovak Republic
              > >
              > > tel: +421 31 560 0641
              > > mobile: +421 905 490 552
              > > http://www.centroconsult.sk
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
              > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > > ADVERTISEMENT
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