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Re: [S-R] 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer - Request for help de ciphering!

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  • Vladimir Bohinc
    Dear James, Inq.stands for Inquilinus. There were basically three social layers in a village. Colonus = farmer with a house, land and horses Inquilinus =
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 2, 2005
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      Dear James,
      Inq.stands for Inquilinus.
      There were basically three social layers in a village.
      Colonus = farmer with a house, land and horses
      Inquilinus = farmer with house, but no land and no horses
      Subinquilinus = no house, no land, no horses, just bare hands to live from.
      The last group were beggars (mendicus) or Gypsies ( zingarus) or other Vagabundi, who only sporadically appear in church records, but not in urbarial censuses. Of course, there were also Jews, who are also not in the Urbarial censuses.
      Since a subinquilinus did not have any property, which was the criteria to be treated as the member of the community, they were not treated as members of community and as such, they were also moving around in search for work. They lived as tenants either with Coloni or Inquilini or with the Landlord himself.
      Also worth to mention is the fact, that the sole real owner of everything was the Landlord ( or the Church).
      Best regards,
      Vladimir Bohinc
      www.konekta.sk

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: James McGrath
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 4:05 PM
      Subject: [S-R] 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer - Request for help de ciphering!


      I've just uploaded them to the shared group photos (in
      the album 'Antolik in Kolbach'). The person who is
      probably my ancestor is about half way down page 2.
      His name is followed by 'Inq', as are several other
      names. He had 3 of something - probably agricultural
      workers in his employ or living on his land. I'd also
      be interested if anyone can figure out what the size
      and population of the village were in this period.

      Thanks!

      James


      --- "Armata, Joseph R. (JArmata)"
      <JArmata@...> wrote:

      >
      > Do you have a link to the page you were looking at?
      >
      > Joe
      >





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    • Bill Tarkulich
      James & All, Vladimir wrote a very nice piece on Feudal structure a while ago. I republished it here http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/social_status.htm There
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 3, 2005
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        James & All,
        Vladimir wrote a very nice piece on Feudal structure a while ago. I
        republished it here
        http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/social_status.htm

        There are some other good references at the bottom of this page
        http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/CensusMain.htm

        ______________
        Bill Tarkulich




        -----Original Message-----
        From: James McGrath [mailto:jamesfrankmcgrath@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:06 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [S-R] 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer - Request for help de
        ciphering!



        I've just uploaded them to the shared group photos (in
        the album 'Antolik in Kolbach'). The person who is
        probably my ancestor is about half way down page 2.
        His name is followed by 'Inq', as are several other
        names. He had 3 of something - probably agricultural
        workers in his employ or living on his land. I'd also
        be interested if anyone can figure out what the size
        and population of the village were in this period.

        Thanks!

        James


        --- "Armata, Joseph R. (JArmata)" <JArmata@...> wrote:

        >
        > Do you have a link to the page you were looking at?
        >
        > Joe
        >





        __________________________________
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        Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
        http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/



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      • James McGrath
        On everything I ve seen, the present name of the Kolbach I am referring to is Studenec. It is not far from Spisske Podhradie. I don t think this is the same
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 3, 2005
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          On everything I've seen, the present name of the
          Kolbach I am referring to is Studenec. It is not far
          from Spisske Podhradie. I don't think this is the same
          place you are referring to, although I'd be happy to
          be wrong about this! :)

          James


          --- Caye Caswick <ccaswick@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > James ... is that the Kolbach that is now Brezina
          > southeast of Kosice and southwest of Trebisov? If
          > so,
          > that's where my ancestors are also from.
          >
          > Small world if that's the same town!
          >
          >
          > Caye
          >
          >





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        • Barbara/Bill
          I m a big dummy.....I ve been going to this site and am just totalled confused...... I ve tried putting the names of the villages that I know my ancestors
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 3, 2005
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            I'm a big dummy.....I've been going to this site and am just totalled
            confused......

            I've tried putting the names of the villages that I know my ancestors lived
            in....and pages come up with various collections of words...but I have no
            idea what to do next....I see arrows at the top right to go forward and
            back - forward and back to what? I don't know where I am now!

            And over on the left that large yellow column has tons of "things" to click
            on but when I try one I still don't know what I'm seeing.........I'm
            sooooooo sorry to be so dense.

            I'm interested in people in Kinces (near Dvorianky) and in Jozsefvolgy and
            in Velke Berezne.

            Can someone kick me in the right direction......??//

            Thanx
            Barbara - Uprooting family trees

            "Pray for AMERICA"
          • Peter Nagy
            Barbara, ... There are plenty of databases, referring to different documents stored in National Archives - this would be an exercise for professional
            Message 5 of 12 , Mar 3, 2005
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              Barbara,

              you wrote:

              > I'm a big dummy.....I've been going to this site and am just totalled
              > confused......
              >
              > I've tried putting the names of the villages that I know my ancestors
              > lived
              > in....and pages come up with various collections of words...but I have no
              > idea what to do next....I see arrows at the top right to go forward and
              > back - forward and back to what? I don't know where I am now!

              There are plenty of databases, referring to different documents stored
              in National Archives - this would be an exercise for professional
              researchers. I would strongly recommend to search only the 1715 taxpayer
              census. Do not enter the yellow menu in the left. It is enough to follow
              the instruction presented in this forum or to use my guide published here
              http://www.centroconsult.sk/genealogy/census.html

              First exercise is to locate the towns, you should know either official
              name in 1913, or present official name, or name according the Lipszky
              gazetteer, or name valid in 1715.

              You are looking for villages Kinces (near Dvorianky) and in Jozsefvolgy
              and in Velke Berezne
              Kincses, now Chincius is in Romania, in what county was your Kinces
              Józsefvolgy, former Zemplen county, now Juskova Vola is in Slovakia
              Nagyberezna, former Ung county, now Velikij Bereznij is in Ukraine

              I checked the town Jozsefvolgy using long list for 1913 town names.
              There was one match:
              -------------------------------------------
              Town: Juszko Volya, Vólya, Juszko-, Józsefvölgy, Zemplén, Juskova Voľa,
              SK (all alternative spellings)

              Adózók neve (taxpayers): Scultetus Lukas Sziszál; Franciscus barna;
              Georgius Sziszák; Alexender Kozanski; Alexender Sziszák

              Oldalszám: 9, 340, - hypelink to the scanned pages.
              ----------------------------------------------

              Let me please know, if the instructions on the page
              http://www.centroconsult.sk/genealogy/census.html

              were useful for you.

              Happy hunting

              Peter

              --
              Cilistovska 20
              931 01 Samorin
              Slovak Republic

              tel: +421 31 560 0641
              mobile: +421 905 490 552
              http://www.centroconsult.sk
            • Janet Kozlay
              Dear Peter, I could not believe my eyes. I am speechless. How is it possible that just by chance you chose to feature in your instructions the very names and
              Message 6 of 12 , Mar 4, 2005
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                Dear Peter,

                I could not believe my eyes. I am speechless. How is it possible that just
                by chance you chose to feature in your instructions the very names and
                places I have been hunting for nearly four years--Kozla, Kozlai, Kozik, and
                Lovinobana (for which I have not been able to locate church records). This
                has proven to be a particularly elusive family. I thought I had become
                fairly proficient at searching the Arcanum.hu/mol databases, but I was
                always baffled by the green screen, and generally ignored it. Now, with your
                very clear instructions and translations of the terms, I am ready to give it
                another shot.

                I have also recently acquired the Konyvtar IV DVD from Arcanum, which has a
                very large number of databases relating to Hungarian nobility, including but
                certainly not limited to Nagy Iván, Kempelen Béla, and Siebmacher's
                Wappenbuch. Some of your instructions also apply to those databases, which I
                have been learning as I played with the DVD. If anyone is interested, I
                would be happy to search out names and places as long as I don't get
                overwhelmed with requests. Many of us were extremely unhappy when Arcanum
                removed the Nagy and Kempelen databases from their free website, which is
                why I broke down and ordered the DVD. I had no idea that there were numerous
                other databases that also were rich sources of information.

                I cannot thank you enough for taking the time to provide this worksheet.

                Janet


                -----Original Message-----
                From: centroco@... [mailto:centroco@...] On Behalf Of Peter
                Nagy
                Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 2:17 AM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [S-R] 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer - Request for help de
                ciphering!


                Barbara,

                you wrote:

                > I'm a big dummy.....I've been going to this site and am just totalled
                > confused......
                >
                > I've tried putting the names of the villages that I know my ancestors
                > lived
                > in....and pages come up with various collections of words...but I have no
                > idea what to do next....I see arrows at the top right to go forward and
                > back - forward and back to what? I don't know where I am now!

                There are plenty of databases, referring to different documents stored
                in National Archives - this would be an exercise for professional
                researchers. I would strongly recommend to search only the 1715 taxpayer
                census. Do not enter the yellow menu in the left. It is enough to follow
                the instruction presented in this forum or to use my guide published here
                http://www.centroconsult.sk/genealogy/census.html

                First exercise is to locate the towns, you should know either official
                name in 1913, or present official name, or name according the Lipszky
                gazetteer, or name valid in 1715.

                You are looking for villages Kinces (near Dvorianky) and in Jozsefvolgy
                and in Velke Berezne
                Kincses, now Chincius is in Romania, in what county was your Kinces
                Józsefvolgy, former Zemplen county, now Juskova Vola is in Slovakia
                Nagyberezna, former Ung county, now Velikij Bereznij is in Ukraine

                I checked the town Jozsefvolgy using long list for 1913 town names.
                There was one match:
                -------------------------------------------
                Town: Juszko Volya, Vólya, Juszko-, Józsefvölgy, Zemplén, Juskova Voľa,
                SK (all alternative spellings)

                Adózók neve (taxpayers): Scultetus Lukas Sziszál; Franciscus barna;
                Georgius Sziszák; Alexender Kozanski; Alexender Sziszák

                Oldalszám: 9, 340, - hypelink to the scanned pages.
                ----------------------------------------------

                Let me please know, if the instructions on the page
                http://www.centroconsult.sk/genealogy/census.html

                were useful for you.

                Happy hunting

                Peter

                --
                Cilistovska 20
                931 01 Samorin
                Slovak Republic

                tel: +421 31 560 0641
                mobile: +421 905 490 552
                http://www.centroconsult.sk





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