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RE: [S-R] 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer - Request for help de ciphering!

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  • Armata, Joseph R. (JArmata)
    Can you post a closeup of the words you re asking about? The file is too small to see well - I think I ve heard that the picture might show up large for the
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 2, 2005
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      Can you post a closeup of the words you're asking about? The file is
      too small to see well - I think I've heard that the picture might show
      up large for the person who posted it, but for others it shows up
      small.

      Joe


      -----Original Message-----
      From: James McGrath [mailto:jamesfrankmcgrath@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:06 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [S-R] 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer - Request for help de
      ciphering!



      I've just uploaded them to the shared group photos (in
      the album 'Antolik in Kolbach'). The person who is
      probably my ancestor is about half way down page 2.
      His name is followed by 'Inq', as are several other
      names. He had 3 of something - probably agricultural
      workers in his employ or living on his land. I'd also
      be interested if anyone can figure out what the size
      and population of the village were in this period.

      Thanks!

      James


      --- "Armata, Joseph R. (JArmata)"
      <JArmata@...> wrote:

      >
      > Do you have a link to the page you were looking at?
      >
      > Joe
      >





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    • Jan Ammann
      Hello Joe.........Its easier to do it this way. Go to www.arcanum.hu/mol...... When it comes up, there will be the words Az 1715 evi orszagos osszeiras in
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 2, 2005
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        Hello Joe.........Its easier to do it this way. Go to www.arcanum.hu/mol......
        When it comes up, there will be the words "Az 1715 evi orszagos osszeiras" in the middle of your screen.........above the red and yellow picture. Click on it. Then a new menu will come up on the left side........Go to Kereses: And type in ..........Kolbach......and hit mehet. Will bring up a screen in the center with either 2 entries or 13 entries. There are two entries that will start out with "Az 1715...." Click on that........It will bring up the screen showing this village name.........There are numbers in red.....click on 205.......Then the large antique yellow/gold page....original of the census will come up. It is quite large and you can see everything fine.

        Cheers, Jan

        "Armata, Joseph R. (JArmata)" <JArmata@...> wrote:
        Can you post a closeup of the words you're asking about? The file is
        too small to see well - I think I've heard that the picture might show
        up large for the person who posted it, but for others it shows up
        small.

        Joe


        -----Original Message-----
        From: James McGrath [mailto:jamesfrankmcgrath@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:06 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [S-R] 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer - Request for help de
        ciphering!



        I've just uploaded them to the shared group photos (in
        the album 'Antolik in Kolbach'). The person who is
        probably my ancestor is about half way down page 2.
        His name is followed by 'Inq', as are several other
        names. He had 3 of something - probably agricultural
        workers in his employ or living on his land. I'd also
        be interested if anyone can figure out what the size
        and population of the village were in this period.

        Thanks!

        James


        --- "Armata, Joseph R. (JArmata)"
        <JArmata@...> wrote:

        >
        > Do you have a link to the page you were looking at?
        >
        > Joe
        >





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        Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
        http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/


        ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        --------------------~-->
        DonorsChoose. A simple way to provide underprivileged children
        resources
        often lacking in public schools. Fund a student project in NYC/NC
        today!
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Vladimir Bohinc
        Dear James, Inq.stands for Inquilinus. There were basically three social layers in a village. Colonus = farmer with a house, land and horses Inquilinus =
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 2, 2005
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          Dear James,
          Inq.stands for Inquilinus.
          There were basically three social layers in a village.
          Colonus = farmer with a house, land and horses
          Inquilinus = farmer with house, but no land and no horses
          Subinquilinus = no house, no land, no horses, just bare hands to live from.
          The last group were beggars (mendicus) or Gypsies ( zingarus) or other Vagabundi, who only sporadically appear in church records, but not in urbarial censuses. Of course, there were also Jews, who are also not in the Urbarial censuses.
          Since a subinquilinus did not have any property, which was the criteria to be treated as the member of the community, they were not treated as members of community and as such, they were also moving around in search for work. They lived as tenants either with Coloni or Inquilini or with the Landlord himself.
          Also worth to mention is the fact, that the sole real owner of everything was the Landlord ( or the Church).
          Best regards,
          Vladimir Bohinc
          www.konekta.sk

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: James McGrath
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 4:05 PM
          Subject: [S-R] 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer - Request for help de ciphering!


          I've just uploaded them to the shared group photos (in
          the album 'Antolik in Kolbach'). The person who is
          probably my ancestor is about half way down page 2.
          His name is followed by 'Inq', as are several other
          names. He had 3 of something - probably agricultural
          workers in his employ or living on his land. I'd also
          be interested if anyone can figure out what the size
          and population of the village were in this period.

          Thanks!

          James


          --- "Armata, Joseph R. (JArmata)"
          <JArmata@...> wrote:

          >
          > Do you have a link to the page you were looking at?
          >
          > Joe
          >





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          Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
          http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/


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        • Bill Tarkulich
          James & All, Vladimir wrote a very nice piece on Feudal structure a while ago. I republished it here http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/social_status.htm There
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 3, 2005
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            James & All,
            Vladimir wrote a very nice piece on Feudal structure a while ago. I
            republished it here
            http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/social_status.htm

            There are some other good references at the bottom of this page
            http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/CensusMain.htm

            ______________
            Bill Tarkulich




            -----Original Message-----
            From: James McGrath [mailto:jamesfrankmcgrath@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:06 AM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [S-R] 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer - Request for help de
            ciphering!



            I've just uploaded them to the shared group photos (in
            the album 'Antolik in Kolbach'). The person who is
            probably my ancestor is about half way down page 2.
            His name is followed by 'Inq', as are several other
            names. He had 3 of something - probably agricultural
            workers in his employ or living on his land. I'd also
            be interested if anyone can figure out what the size
            and population of the village were in this period.

            Thanks!

            James


            --- "Armata, Joseph R. (JArmata)" <JArmata@...> wrote:

            >
            > Do you have a link to the page you were looking at?
            >
            > Joe
            >





            __________________________________
            Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
            Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
            http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/



            To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
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          • James McGrath
            On everything I ve seen, the present name of the Kolbach I am referring to is Studenec. It is not far from Spisske Podhradie. I don t think this is the same
            Message 5 of 12 , Mar 3, 2005
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              On everything I've seen, the present name of the
              Kolbach I am referring to is Studenec. It is not far
              from Spisske Podhradie. I don't think this is the same
              place you are referring to, although I'd be happy to
              be wrong about this! :)

              James


              --- Caye Caswick <ccaswick@...> wrote:

              >
              >
              > James ... is that the Kolbach that is now Brezina
              > southeast of Kosice and southwest of Trebisov? If
              > so,
              > that's where my ancestors are also from.
              >
              > Small world if that's the same town!
              >
              >
              > Caye
              >
              >





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            • Barbara/Bill
              I m a big dummy.....I ve been going to this site and am just totalled confused...... I ve tried putting the names of the villages that I know my ancestors
              Message 6 of 12 , Mar 3, 2005
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                I'm a big dummy.....I've been going to this site and am just totalled
                confused......

                I've tried putting the names of the villages that I know my ancestors lived
                in....and pages come up with various collections of words...but I have no
                idea what to do next....I see arrows at the top right to go forward and
                back - forward and back to what? I don't know where I am now!

                And over on the left that large yellow column has tons of "things" to click
                on but when I try one I still don't know what I'm seeing.........I'm
                sooooooo sorry to be so dense.

                I'm interested in people in Kinces (near Dvorianky) and in Jozsefvolgy and
                in Velke Berezne.

                Can someone kick me in the right direction......??//

                Thanx
                Barbara - Uprooting family trees

                "Pray for AMERICA"
              • Peter Nagy
                Barbara, ... There are plenty of databases, referring to different documents stored in National Archives - this would be an exercise for professional
                Message 7 of 12 , Mar 3, 2005
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                  Barbara,

                  you wrote:

                  > I'm a big dummy.....I've been going to this site and am just totalled
                  > confused......
                  >
                  > I've tried putting the names of the villages that I know my ancestors
                  > lived
                  > in....and pages come up with various collections of words...but I have no
                  > idea what to do next....I see arrows at the top right to go forward and
                  > back - forward and back to what? I don't know where I am now!

                  There are plenty of databases, referring to different documents stored
                  in National Archives - this would be an exercise for professional
                  researchers. I would strongly recommend to search only the 1715 taxpayer
                  census. Do not enter the yellow menu in the left. It is enough to follow
                  the instruction presented in this forum or to use my guide published here
                  http://www.centroconsult.sk/genealogy/census.html

                  First exercise is to locate the towns, you should know either official
                  name in 1913, or present official name, or name according the Lipszky
                  gazetteer, or name valid in 1715.

                  You are looking for villages Kinces (near Dvorianky) and in Jozsefvolgy
                  and in Velke Berezne
                  Kincses, now Chincius is in Romania, in what county was your Kinces
                  Józsefvolgy, former Zemplen county, now Juskova Vola is in Slovakia
                  Nagyberezna, former Ung county, now Velikij Bereznij is in Ukraine

                  I checked the town Jozsefvolgy using long list for 1913 town names.
                  There was one match:
                  -------------------------------------------
                  Town: Juszko Volya, Vólya, Juszko-, Józsefvölgy, Zemplén, Juskova Voľa,
                  SK (all alternative spellings)

                  Adózók neve (taxpayers): Scultetus Lukas Sziszál; Franciscus barna;
                  Georgius Sziszák; Alexender Kozanski; Alexender Sziszák

                  Oldalszám: 9, 340, - hypelink to the scanned pages.
                  ----------------------------------------------

                  Let me please know, if the instructions on the page
                  http://www.centroconsult.sk/genealogy/census.html

                  were useful for you.

                  Happy hunting

                  Peter

                  --
                  Cilistovska 20
                  931 01 Samorin
                  Slovak Republic

                  tel: +421 31 560 0641
                  mobile: +421 905 490 552
                  http://www.centroconsult.sk
                • Janet Kozlay
                  Dear Peter, I could not believe my eyes. I am speechless. How is it possible that just by chance you chose to feature in your instructions the very names and
                  Message 8 of 12 , Mar 4, 2005
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                    Dear Peter,

                    I could not believe my eyes. I am speechless. How is it possible that just
                    by chance you chose to feature in your instructions the very names and
                    places I have been hunting for nearly four years--Kozla, Kozlai, Kozik, and
                    Lovinobana (for which I have not been able to locate church records). This
                    has proven to be a particularly elusive family. I thought I had become
                    fairly proficient at searching the Arcanum.hu/mol databases, but I was
                    always baffled by the green screen, and generally ignored it. Now, with your
                    very clear instructions and translations of the terms, I am ready to give it
                    another shot.

                    I have also recently acquired the Konyvtar IV DVD from Arcanum, which has a
                    very large number of databases relating to Hungarian nobility, including but
                    certainly not limited to Nagy Iván, Kempelen Béla, and Siebmacher's
                    Wappenbuch. Some of your instructions also apply to those databases, which I
                    have been learning as I played with the DVD. If anyone is interested, I
                    would be happy to search out names and places as long as I don't get
                    overwhelmed with requests. Many of us were extremely unhappy when Arcanum
                    removed the Nagy and Kempelen databases from their free website, which is
                    why I broke down and ordered the DVD. I had no idea that there were numerous
                    other databases that also were rich sources of information.

                    I cannot thank you enough for taking the time to provide this worksheet.

                    Janet


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: centroco@... [mailto:centroco@...] On Behalf Of Peter
                    Nagy
                    Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 2:17 AM
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [S-R] 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer - Request for help de
                    ciphering!


                    Barbara,

                    you wrote:

                    > I'm a big dummy.....I've been going to this site and am just totalled
                    > confused......
                    >
                    > I've tried putting the names of the villages that I know my ancestors
                    > lived
                    > in....and pages come up with various collections of words...but I have no
                    > idea what to do next....I see arrows at the top right to go forward and
                    > back - forward and back to what? I don't know where I am now!

                    There are plenty of databases, referring to different documents stored
                    in National Archives - this would be an exercise for professional
                    researchers. I would strongly recommend to search only the 1715 taxpayer
                    census. Do not enter the yellow menu in the left. It is enough to follow
                    the instruction presented in this forum or to use my guide published here
                    http://www.centroconsult.sk/genealogy/census.html

                    First exercise is to locate the towns, you should know either official
                    name in 1913, or present official name, or name according the Lipszky
                    gazetteer, or name valid in 1715.

                    You are looking for villages Kinces (near Dvorianky) and in Jozsefvolgy
                    and in Velke Berezne
                    Kincses, now Chincius is in Romania, in what county was your Kinces
                    Józsefvolgy, former Zemplen county, now Juskova Vola is in Slovakia
                    Nagyberezna, former Ung county, now Velikij Bereznij is in Ukraine

                    I checked the town Jozsefvolgy using long list for 1913 town names.
                    There was one match:
                    -------------------------------------------
                    Town: Juszko Volya, Vólya, Juszko-, Józsefvölgy, Zemplén, Juskova Voľa,
                    SK (all alternative spellings)

                    Adózók neve (taxpayers): Scultetus Lukas Sziszál; Franciscus barna;
                    Georgius Sziszák; Alexender Kozanski; Alexender Sziszák

                    Oldalszám: 9, 340, - hypelink to the scanned pages.
                    ----------------------------------------------

                    Let me please know, if the instructions on the page
                    http://www.centroconsult.sk/genealogy/census.html

                    were useful for you.

                    Happy hunting

                    Peter

                    --
                    Cilistovska 20
                    931 01 Samorin
                    Slovak Republic

                    tel: +421 31 560 0641
                    mobile: +421 905 490 552
                    http://www.centroconsult.sk





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