Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [S-R] 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer - Request for help de ciphering!

Expand Messages
  • Caye Caswick
    Wow, that handwriting is pretty clear -- I m sure someone on this group will be able to help you. I tried it the other day and the handwriting on the one I
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 2 9:12 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Wow, that handwriting is pretty clear -- I'm sure
      someone on this group will be able to help you. I
      tried it the other day and the handwriting on the one
      I used as a test was so horrible I could barely make
      out any of the lettering. Lucky you James!



      Caye



      --- James McGrath <jamesfrankmcgrath@...> wrote:

      > I've just uploaded them to the shared group photos
      > (in
      > the album 'Antolik in Kolbach'). The person who is
      > probably my ancestor is about half way down page 2.
      > His name is followed by 'Inq', as are several other
      > names. He had 3 of something - probably agricultural
      > workers in his employ or living on his land. I'd
      > also
      > be interested if anyone can figure out what the size
      > and population of the village were in this period.
      >
      > Thanks!
      >
      > James
      >
      >
      > --- "Armata, Joseph R. (JArmata)"
      > <JArmata@...> wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > Do you have a link to the page you were looking
      > at?
      > >
      > > Joe
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > __________________________________
      > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
      > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
      > http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
      >





      __________________________________
      Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
      Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
      http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
    • Armata, Joseph R. (JArmata)
      Can you post a closeup of the words you re asking about? The file is too small to see well - I think I ve heard that the picture might show up large for the
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 2 11:53 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        Can you post a closeup of the words you're asking about? The file is
        too small to see well - I think I've heard that the picture might show
        up large for the person who posted it, but for others it shows up
        small.

        Joe


        -----Original Message-----
        From: James McGrath [mailto:jamesfrankmcgrath@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:06 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [S-R] 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer - Request for help de
        ciphering!



        I've just uploaded them to the shared group photos (in
        the album 'Antolik in Kolbach'). The person who is
        probably my ancestor is about half way down page 2.
        His name is followed by 'Inq', as are several other
        names. He had 3 of something - probably agricultural
        workers in his employ or living on his land. I'd also
        be interested if anyone can figure out what the size
        and population of the village were in this period.

        Thanks!

        James


        --- "Armata, Joseph R. (JArmata)"
        <JArmata@...> wrote:

        >
        > Do you have a link to the page you were looking at?
        >
        > Joe
        >





        __________________________________
        Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
        Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
        http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/


        ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        --------------------~-->
        DonorsChoose. A simple way to provide underprivileged children
        resources
        often lacking in public schools. Fund a student project in NYC/NC
        today!
        http://us.click.yahoo.com/T_B0zD/.WnJAA/a8ILAA/FvNolB/TM
        --------------------------------------------------------------------~-
        >

        To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
        to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Jan Ammann
        Hello Joe.........Its easier to do it this way. Go to www.arcanum.hu/mol...... When it comes up, there will be the words Az 1715 evi orszagos osszeiras in
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 2 12:37 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello Joe.........Its easier to do it this way. Go to www.arcanum.hu/mol......
          When it comes up, there will be the words "Az 1715 evi orszagos osszeiras" in the middle of your screen.........above the red and yellow picture. Click on it. Then a new menu will come up on the left side........Go to Kereses: And type in ..........Kolbach......and hit mehet. Will bring up a screen in the center with either 2 entries or 13 entries. There are two entries that will start out with "Az 1715...." Click on that........It will bring up the screen showing this village name.........There are numbers in red.....click on 205.......Then the large antique yellow/gold page....original of the census will come up. It is quite large and you can see everything fine.

          Cheers, Jan

          "Armata, Joseph R. (JArmata)" <JArmata@...> wrote:
          Can you post a closeup of the words you're asking about? The file is
          too small to see well - I think I've heard that the picture might show
          up large for the person who posted it, but for others it shows up
          small.

          Joe


          -----Original Message-----
          From: James McGrath [mailto:jamesfrankmcgrath@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:06 AM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [S-R] 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer - Request for help de
          ciphering!



          I've just uploaded them to the shared group photos (in
          the album 'Antolik in Kolbach'). The person who is
          probably my ancestor is about half way down page 2.
          His name is followed by 'Inq', as are several other
          names. He had 3 of something - probably agricultural
          workers in his employ or living on his land. I'd also
          be interested if anyone can figure out what the size
          and population of the village were in this period.

          Thanks!

          James


          --- "Armata, Joseph R. (JArmata)"
          <JArmata@...> wrote:

          >
          > Do you have a link to the page you were looking at?
          >
          > Joe
          >





          __________________________________
          Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
          Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
          http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/


          ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          --------------------~-->
          DonorsChoose. A simple way to provide underprivileged children
          resources
          often lacking in public schools. Fund a student project in NYC/NC
          today!
          http://us.click.yahoo.com/T_B0zD/.WnJAA/a8ILAA/FvNolB/TM
          --------------------------------------------------------------------~-
          >

          To unsubscribe from this group, go to
          http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
          to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          Yahoo! Groups Links








          To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


          Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT


          ---------------------------------
          Yahoo! Groups Links

          To visit your group on the web, go to:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Vladimir Bohinc
          Dear James, Inq.stands for Inquilinus. There were basically three social layers in a village. Colonus = farmer with a house, land and horses Inquilinus =
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 2 11:40 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            Dear James,
            Inq.stands for Inquilinus.
            There were basically three social layers in a village.
            Colonus = farmer with a house, land and horses
            Inquilinus = farmer with house, but no land and no horses
            Subinquilinus = no house, no land, no horses, just bare hands to live from.
            The last group were beggars (mendicus) or Gypsies ( zingarus) or other Vagabundi, who only sporadically appear in church records, but not in urbarial censuses. Of course, there were also Jews, who are also not in the Urbarial censuses.
            Since a subinquilinus did not have any property, which was the criteria to be treated as the member of the community, they were not treated as members of community and as such, they were also moving around in search for work. They lived as tenants either with Coloni or Inquilini or with the Landlord himself.
            Also worth to mention is the fact, that the sole real owner of everything was the Landlord ( or the Church).
            Best regards,
            Vladimir Bohinc
            www.konekta.sk

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: James McGrath
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 4:05 PM
            Subject: [S-R] 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer - Request for help de ciphering!


            I've just uploaded them to the shared group photos (in
            the album 'Antolik in Kolbach'). The person who is
            probably my ancestor is about half way down page 2.
            His name is followed by 'Inq', as are several other
            names. He had 3 of something - probably agricultural
            workers in his employ or living on his land. I'd also
            be interested if anyone can figure out what the size
            and population of the village were in this period.

            Thanks!

            James


            --- "Armata, Joseph R. (JArmata)"
            <JArmata@...> wrote:

            >
            > Do you have a link to the page you were looking at?
            >
            > Joe
            >





            __________________________________
            Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
            Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
            http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/


            To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            ADVERTISEMENT





            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Yahoo! Groups Links

            a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

            b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



            __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.991 (20050203) __________

            Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
            http://www.eset.sk


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Bill Tarkulich
            James & All, Vladimir wrote a very nice piece on Feudal structure a while ago. I republished it here http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/social_status.htm There
            Message 5 of 12 , Mar 3 2:26 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              James & All,
              Vladimir wrote a very nice piece on Feudal structure a while ago. I
              republished it here
              http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/social_status.htm

              There are some other good references at the bottom of this page
              http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/CensusMain.htm

              ______________
              Bill Tarkulich




              -----Original Message-----
              From: James McGrath [mailto:jamesfrankmcgrath@...]
              Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:06 AM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [S-R] 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer - Request for help de
              ciphering!



              I've just uploaded them to the shared group photos (in
              the album 'Antolik in Kolbach'). The person who is
              probably my ancestor is about half way down page 2.
              His name is followed by 'Inq', as are several other
              names. He had 3 of something - probably agricultural
              workers in his employ or living on his land. I'd also
              be interested if anyone can figure out what the size
              and population of the village were in this period.

              Thanks!

              James


              --- "Armata, Joseph R. (JArmata)" <JArmata@...> wrote:

              >
              > Do you have a link to the page you were looking at?
              >
              > Joe
              >





              __________________________________
              Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
              Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
              http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/



              To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
              SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • James McGrath
              On everything I ve seen, the present name of the Kolbach I am referring to is Studenec. It is not far from Spisske Podhradie. I don t think this is the same
              Message 6 of 12 , Mar 3 2:11 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                On everything I've seen, the present name of the
                Kolbach I am referring to is Studenec. It is not far
                from Spisske Podhradie. I don't think this is the same
                place you are referring to, although I'd be happy to
                be wrong about this! :)

                James


                --- Caye Caswick <ccaswick@...> wrote:

                >
                >
                > James ... is that the Kolbach that is now Brezina
                > southeast of Kosice and southwest of Trebisov? If
                > so,
                > that's where my ancestors are also from.
                >
                > Small world if that's the same town!
                >
                >
                > Caye
                >
                >





                __________________________________
                Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
                Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
                http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
              • Barbara/Bill
                I m a big dummy.....I ve been going to this site and am just totalled confused...... I ve tried putting the names of the villages that I know my ancestors
                Message 7 of 12 , Mar 3 3:01 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  I'm a big dummy.....I've been going to this site and am just totalled
                  confused......

                  I've tried putting the names of the villages that I know my ancestors lived
                  in....and pages come up with various collections of words...but I have no
                  idea what to do next....I see arrows at the top right to go forward and
                  back - forward and back to what? I don't know where I am now!

                  And over on the left that large yellow column has tons of "things" to click
                  on but when I try one I still don't know what I'm seeing.........I'm
                  sooooooo sorry to be so dense.

                  I'm interested in people in Kinces (near Dvorianky) and in Jozsefvolgy and
                  in Velke Berezne.

                  Can someone kick me in the right direction......??//

                  Thanx
                  Barbara - Uprooting family trees

                  "Pray for AMERICA"
                • Peter Nagy
                  Barbara, ... There are plenty of databases, referring to different documents stored in National Archives - this would be an exercise for professional
                  Message 8 of 12 , Mar 3 11:17 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Barbara,

                    you wrote:

                    > I'm a big dummy.....I've been going to this site and am just totalled
                    > confused......
                    >
                    > I've tried putting the names of the villages that I know my ancestors
                    > lived
                    > in....and pages come up with various collections of words...but I have no
                    > idea what to do next....I see arrows at the top right to go forward and
                    > back - forward and back to what? I don't know where I am now!

                    There are plenty of databases, referring to different documents stored
                    in National Archives - this would be an exercise for professional
                    researchers. I would strongly recommend to search only the 1715 taxpayer
                    census. Do not enter the yellow menu in the left. It is enough to follow
                    the instruction presented in this forum or to use my guide published here
                    http://www.centroconsult.sk/genealogy/census.html

                    First exercise is to locate the towns, you should know either official
                    name in 1913, or present official name, or name according the Lipszky
                    gazetteer, or name valid in 1715.

                    You are looking for villages Kinces (near Dvorianky) and in Jozsefvolgy
                    and in Velke Berezne
                    Kincses, now Chincius is in Romania, in what county was your Kinces
                    Józsefvolgy, former Zemplen county, now Juskova Vola is in Slovakia
                    Nagyberezna, former Ung county, now Velikij Bereznij is in Ukraine

                    I checked the town Jozsefvolgy using long list for 1913 town names.
                    There was one match:
                    -------------------------------------------
                    Town: Juszko Volya, Vólya, Juszko-, Józsefvölgy, Zemplén, Juskova Voľa,
                    SK (all alternative spellings)

                    Adózók neve (taxpayers): Scultetus Lukas Sziszál; Franciscus barna;
                    Georgius Sziszák; Alexender Kozanski; Alexender Sziszák

                    Oldalszám: 9, 340, - hypelink to the scanned pages.
                    ----------------------------------------------

                    Let me please know, if the instructions on the page
                    http://www.centroconsult.sk/genealogy/census.html

                    were useful for you.

                    Happy hunting

                    Peter

                    --
                    Cilistovska 20
                    931 01 Samorin
                    Slovak Republic

                    tel: +421 31 560 0641
                    mobile: +421 905 490 552
                    http://www.centroconsult.sk
                  • Janet Kozlay
                    Dear Peter, I could not believe my eyes. I am speechless. How is it possible that just by chance you chose to feature in your instructions the very names and
                    Message 9 of 12 , Mar 4 5:50 AM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Dear Peter,

                      I could not believe my eyes. I am speechless. How is it possible that just
                      by chance you chose to feature in your instructions the very names and
                      places I have been hunting for nearly four years--Kozla, Kozlai, Kozik, and
                      Lovinobana (for which I have not been able to locate church records). This
                      has proven to be a particularly elusive family. I thought I had become
                      fairly proficient at searching the Arcanum.hu/mol databases, but I was
                      always baffled by the green screen, and generally ignored it. Now, with your
                      very clear instructions and translations of the terms, I am ready to give it
                      another shot.

                      I have also recently acquired the Konyvtar IV DVD from Arcanum, which has a
                      very large number of databases relating to Hungarian nobility, including but
                      certainly not limited to Nagy Iván, Kempelen Béla, and Siebmacher's
                      Wappenbuch. Some of your instructions also apply to those databases, which I
                      have been learning as I played with the DVD. If anyone is interested, I
                      would be happy to search out names and places as long as I don't get
                      overwhelmed with requests. Many of us were extremely unhappy when Arcanum
                      removed the Nagy and Kempelen databases from their free website, which is
                      why I broke down and ordered the DVD. I had no idea that there were numerous
                      other databases that also were rich sources of information.

                      I cannot thank you enough for taking the time to provide this worksheet.

                      Janet


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: centroco@... [mailto:centroco@...] On Behalf Of Peter
                      Nagy
                      Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 2:17 AM
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [S-R] 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer - Request for help de
                      ciphering!


                      Barbara,

                      you wrote:

                      > I'm a big dummy.....I've been going to this site and am just totalled
                      > confused......
                      >
                      > I've tried putting the names of the villages that I know my ancestors
                      > lived
                      > in....and pages come up with various collections of words...but I have no
                      > idea what to do next....I see arrows at the top right to go forward and
                      > back - forward and back to what? I don't know where I am now!

                      There are plenty of databases, referring to different documents stored
                      in National Archives - this would be an exercise for professional
                      researchers. I would strongly recommend to search only the 1715 taxpayer
                      census. Do not enter the yellow menu in the left. It is enough to follow
                      the instruction presented in this forum or to use my guide published here
                      http://www.centroconsult.sk/genealogy/census.html

                      First exercise is to locate the towns, you should know either official
                      name in 1913, or present official name, or name according the Lipszky
                      gazetteer, or name valid in 1715.

                      You are looking for villages Kinces (near Dvorianky) and in Jozsefvolgy
                      and in Velke Berezne
                      Kincses, now Chincius is in Romania, in what county was your Kinces
                      Józsefvolgy, former Zemplen county, now Juskova Vola is in Slovakia
                      Nagyberezna, former Ung county, now Velikij Bereznij is in Ukraine

                      I checked the town Jozsefvolgy using long list for 1913 town names.
                      There was one match:
                      -------------------------------------------
                      Town: Juszko Volya, Vólya, Juszko-, Józsefvölgy, Zemplén, Juskova Voľa,
                      SK (all alternative spellings)

                      Adózók neve (taxpayers): Scultetus Lukas Sziszál; Franciscus barna;
                      Georgius Sziszák; Alexender Kozanski; Alexender Sziszák

                      Oldalszám: 9, 340, - hypelink to the scanned pages.
                      ----------------------------------------------

                      Let me please know, if the instructions on the page
                      http://www.centroconsult.sk/genealogy/census.html

                      were useful for you.

                      Happy hunting

                      Peter

                      --
                      Cilistovska 20
                      931 01 Samorin
                      Slovak Republic

                      tel: +421 31 560 0641
                      mobile: +421 905 490 552
                      http://www.centroconsult.sk





                      To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                      SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.