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[S-R] 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer - Request for help deciphering!

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  • James McGrath
    Hi everyone! I did a search and found someone listed in the 1715 taxation records that looks likely to be an ancestor of mine. You can find the records in
    Message 1 of 26 , Mar 1, 2005
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      Hi everyone! I did a search and found someone listed
      in the 1715 taxation records that looks likely to be
      an ancestor of mine. You can find the records in
      question by searching under Antolik. He comes up
      (Marczin Antolik) in the listing for the village of
      Kolbach, which is where my ancestors were from.

      Even though my colleague in the next office is a
      classicist, I still am having difficulty deciphering
      the document, both because of handwriting and because
      Lating from the 18th century is different from that of
      ancient Rome.

      So, can anyone help me figure out what it is that this
      individual had 3 of, and what the 3 letters after his
      name indicate? I am presuming it doesn't mean he was
      an engineer! :)

      Thanks for any help you can give me!

      James



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    • Carol
      Thanks, Bill, for posting the site for the Hungarian Census, etc. I have been playing around for more than an hour and found both my paternal and maternal
      Message 2 of 26 , Mar 1, 2005
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        Thanks, Bill, for posting the site for the Hungarian Census, etc. I have
        been playing around for more than an hour and found both my paternal and
        maternal grandparents' surnames in the area where they lived, probably the
        same village for that matter. I had genealogical research done on both of
        these families and got back as far as the late 1700s. Don't know where I
        will go next with what I've found. Maybe I will look for the other side of
        their families. I love the old handwriting - kind of reminds me of colonial
        American records I've researched. Anyway - grea fun.
        Carol
      • Jan Ammann
        Hello Bill.......... I have to plead to not understanding where I can find the Dvsorszak Gazetteer. The way you talk about it below it appears on the
        Message 3 of 26 , Mar 1, 2005
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          Hello Bill..........

          I have to plead to "not understanding" where I can find the Dvsorszak Gazetteer. The way you talk about it below it appears on the arcanun site but I have not found it there. Where do you bring it up?? I have found the 1715 census but have yet to find any entries for the 1623, 1631, 1691 Ubarial census. One of my villages is Jobahaza but it is not there and I had hoped it would be.

          Anyway, thanks for all your assistance.

          Cheers, Jan


          Also online is the
          > > important
          > > > Dvsorszak Gazetteer. Admittedly, they are not of much
          genealogical value, but they are important insights into the development of the
          area.
          > > These
          > > > census cover all of the "old Hungary", which means not only
          present-
          > > day
          > > > Slovakia, but also Ukraine, Hungary, Romania, etc.
          > > >
          > > > Shown below are the highlights and links to web pages I have
          > > developed to
          > > > help initiate you on their usage.
          > > >
          > > > � Gazetteers
          > > > � Dvorzs�k Gazetteer - Based on the 1877 Census, scans of the
          > > actual
          > > > pages of this Ecclesiastical Gazetteer are now available online
          at
          > > no fee.
          > > > Useful in determining where a villager of a particular faith
          may
          > > have
          > > > attended church. An interesting compliment to Auslander's
          newly-
          > > published
          > > > "Genealogical Gazetteer of the Kingdom of Hungary".


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bill Tarkulich
          Dvsorszak Gazetteer is published by Pecs University, NOT by Arcanum. 1. Go here http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/dvorzsak_gazetteer.htm for my instructions on
          Message 4 of 26 , Mar 2, 2005
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            Dvsorszak Gazetteer is published by Pecs University, NOT by Arcanum.
            1. Go here http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/dvorzsak_gazetteer.htm for my
            instructions on its use.
            2. Go here http://kt.lib.pte.hu/konyvtar/kt03110501/tartalom.html to access
            the gazetteer pages.

            3. You cannot "browse" for earlier census - the titles do not lend itself to
            discovery the way the 1715 census does.
            4. In a global search, you may not find your village entries for every
            Urbarial census for three reasons that come quickly to mind: a) It's simply
            not there, b) it wasn't enumerated separately (may have been part of another
            location) or c) It's been misspelled or another spelling you are unaware of
            was used. Remember, "correct name" is a relative term in genealogy.

            In the case of village misspellings, it is likely it was transcribed in
            error. My suggestion is to do a wildcard search. In the case of Try
            "Jobah*", "Jobaha*", "Joba*", or if you are really desperate, try "Job*".
            If that fails, search for adjacent villages and scour the results. Estate
            records are grouped together, so nearby villages should show. If this
            fails, try a larger nearby town.

            I will be interested in hearing (via this group or privately) what you
            discover. Good luck!

            ______________
            Bill Tarkulich




            -----Original Message-----
            From: Jan Ammann [mailto:janammann@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 12:32 AM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer Available Online



            Hello Bill..........

            I have to plead to "not understanding" where I can find the Dvsorszak
            Gazetteer. The way you talk about it below it appears on the arcanun site
            but I have not found it there. Where do you bring it up?? I have found the
            1715 census but have yet to find any entries for the 1623, 1631, 1691
            Ubarial census. One of my villages is Jobahaza but it is not there and I
            had hoped it would be.

            Anyway, thanks for all your assistance.

            Cheers, Jan


            Also online is the
            > > important
            > > > Dvsorszak Gazetteer. Admittedly, they are not of much
            genealogical value, but they are important insights into the development of
            the
            area.
            > > These
            > > > census cover all of the "old Hungary", which means not only
            present-
            > > day
            > > > Slovakia, but also Ukraine, Hungary, Romania, etc.
            > > >
            > > > Shown below are the highlights and links to web pages I have
            > > developed to
            > > > help initiate you on their usage.
            > > >
            > > > • Gazetteers
            > > > • Dvorzsák Gazetteer - Based on the 1877 Census, scans of the
            > > actual
            > > > pages of this Ecclesiastical Gazetteer are now available online
            at
            > > no fee.
            > > > Useful in determining where a villager of a particular faith
            may
            > > have
            > > > attended church. An interesting compliment to Auslander's
            newly-
            > > published
            > > > "Genealogical Gazetteer of the Kingdom of Hungary".


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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          • Peter Nagy
            James, Inq. is an acronym for inquilinus, the interpretation of this term depends on the context, but in principle it is a farmer, land tenant. Peter --
            Message 5 of 26 , Mar 2, 2005
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              James,

              Inq. is an acronym for inquilinus,

              the interpretation of this term depends on the context, but in principle
              it is a farmer, land tenant.

              Peter

              --
              Cilistovska 20
              931 01 Samorin
              Slovak Republic

              tel: +421 31 560 0641
              mobile: +421 905 490 552
              http://www.centroconsult.sk
            • James McGrath
              Thank you, Peter! Now that I ve found the term, there are a few sites online that help explain the social structure in general terms. Any suggestions on what
              Message 6 of 26 , Mar 2, 2005
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                Thank you, Peter! Now that I've found the term, there
                are a few sites online that help explain the social
                structure in general terms.

                Any suggestions on what the column with the '3' in it
                indicates would still be welcome...

                James

                --- Peter Nagy <nagy@...> wrote:

                >
                > James,
                >
                > Inq. is an acronym for inquilinus,
                >
                > the interpretation of this term depends on the
                > context, but in principle
                > it is a farmer, land tenant.
                >
                > Peter
                >
                > --
                > Cilistovska 20
                > 931 01 Samorin
                > Slovak Republic
                >
                > tel: +421 31 560 0641
                > mobile: +421 905 490 552
                > http://www.centroconsult.sk
                >
                >
                >

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              • Jan Ammann
                Hi Bill........ Before I even get started I have to say I got a good laugh out of your statement to me about searching for the village Jobahaza . You gave me
                Message 7 of 26 , Mar 2, 2005
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                  Hi Bill........

                  Before I even get started I have to say I got a good laugh out of your statement to me about searching for the village "Jobahaza". You gave me some examples and then you said, "if you are really desperate" ........well, I have to say that I thought everybody who searches in this part of Eastern Europe stays in "a desperate state".........at least, I do..........smile.........grin.

                  You mentioned that if any of us decided to click on one of the specialized menus instead of a global search in the 1715 or other census we were to pass on our info. So here is mine!

                  Well, I attempted one and so will share with the list. On the left side on the drop down menu of the opening page, I selected "on Az 1715-osszeiras". I went to a page with a large blank space on a green field. Here is how I have deciphered the fields/spaces.

                  1. B�rhol az adatb�zisban = means "Anywhere in the database"
                  2. Helys�g = means "place or locality"
                  3. Lipszky-f�le helys�gn�v = means "_____ toward locality". I wasn't able to translate "Lipszky"
                  4. 1913-as helys�gn�v = means "1913-as to place/locality"
                  5. 1913-as megyebeoszt�s = means "1913 as county arrangement/apportionment"
                  6. Mai hivatalos helys�gn�v = means "today's official place"
                  7. V�s�rhely = means "market/fair place"
                  8. Ad�z�k - means "impose taxes/rates"

                  Kifejez�sek kapcsolata a mez�n bel�l: means and this is a guess of sorts: "Expression/word that have relation with the fields". I have to spoof myself here because at first I thought it meant meadows.......smile......but I believe it means "as fields in a computer space".

                  a mez�k k�z�tt: means "fields inbetween"

                  The three choices are: "es" which means "and" ~ "vagy" which means "or" ~ "nem" means "no/not".

                  Now, if you click on the arrows which are placed at the end of each field, the right side of the screen has long........long.........long lists which are slow to go through. There is a long list of numbers in different digits.......then it starts with "a" and seems to be a variety of words....names of people...nouns....even some verbs. It is a cumbersome list. I have never made it through the entire list. Oh, and of course, all of this is at the website: www.arcanum.hu/mol.

                  And the word at the end: "Kereses" means "Look"........

                  I would definitely not call this a tutorial.........just a "naive guide" to what may be in this page. So hopefully, someone a lot smarter than me will take this to a higher level. Again, thanks to this list which is always friendly and helpful.

                  Cheers,
                  Jan






                  Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
                  Great news! Several 17th and 18th Century Magyar Census images and/or
                  transcriptions are now available online.
                  � The 1715 Census is now available online at no fee via Arcanum - These are
                  actual scans of all the individual pages and transcriptions of the original
                  census document. The transcriptions are computer-searchable. Thanks to
                  Peter Nagy for the "heads up." This may be a limited time offer!
                  � 1623, 1631, 1691 Ubarial Census transcriptions are also online available
                  at no fee via Arcanum. These are transcriptions ONLY. The transcriptions
                  are computer-searchable. This may be also be a limited time offer!

                  I would very much like to hear how they work for you. Happy Hunting!
                  http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/index.htm#new

                  ______________
                  Bill Tarkulich





                  To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Peter Nagy
                  Jan, I am fluent in Hungarian and I intend to draft a tutorial, but this week I am very busy. You and Bill Tarkulich have done a good start. Only few comments:
                  Message 8 of 26 , Mar 3, 2005
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                    Jan,

                    I am fluent in Hungarian and I intend to draft a tutorial, but this week
                    I am very busy. You and Bill Tarkulich have done a good start. Only few
                    comments:
                    The Lipszky is a reference to Lipszky gazetteer.

                    You wrote:

                    >Now, if you click on the arrows which are placed at the end of each field, the right side of the screen has long........long.........long lists which are slow to go through. There is a long list of numbers in different digits.......then it starts with "a" and seems to be a variety of words....names of people...nouns....even some verbs. It is a cumbersome list. I have never made it through the entire list.
                    >
                    This list is very helpful, but its use is very tricky. Here is na example:
                    You wish to search the name of the taxpayer, there is a field with name
                    "Adózók". You have to click to the green arrow located right for the
                    field. After some time (depending on the server workload and speed of
                    your connection) a new list on the right page of the screen will be
                    loaded "Az Adózók mezőben előforduló szavak" - here are shown all the
                    surname variations included in the database. You have now to move the
                    cursor to any item in this list. You can move through the list using
                    navigation keys of your keyboard, but also you can do quick jumps to the
                    desired letter by hitting the alphabetic keys. Pressing "t" you will
                    jump to the surname "Taák". Pressing the second key "u" you will
                    undertake next jump to "tuba". etc. After you have selected your
                    surname, you have double click on the selected name and this will be
                    pasted to the surname field. There is now way back, thus you must start
                    new search pressing the green arrow button. The similar procedure is to
                    be used for remaining fields.

                    Let me please know, if it was understandable.

                    Peter

                    --
                    Cilistovska 20
                    931 01 Samorin
                    Slovak Republic

                    tel: +421 31 560 0641
                    mobile: +421 905 490 552
                    http://www.centroconsult.sk
                  • Bill Tarkulich
                    Thank you Jan! - If you don t mind, I ll post your remarks on the web page. We ll go back someday and edit it, after everyone s initial investigations settle
                    Message 9 of 26 , Mar 3, 2005
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                      Thank you Jan! - If you don't mind, I'll post your remarks on the web page.
                      We'll go back someday and edit it, after everyone's initial investigations
                      settle down.


                      ______________
                      Bill Tarkulich




                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Jan Ammann [mailto:janammann@...]
                      Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:10 PM
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [S-R] 1600-1700s Hung Census



                      Hi Bill........

                      Before I even get started I have to say I got a good laugh out of your
                      statement to me about searching for the village "Jobahaza". You gave me
                      some examples and then you said, "if you are really desperate" ........well,
                      I have to say that I thought everybody who searches in this part of Eastern
                      Europe stays in "a desperate state".........at least, I
                      do..........smile.........grin.

                      You mentioned that if any of us decided to click on one of the specialized
                      menus instead of a global search in the 1715 or other census we were to pass
                      on our info. So here is mine!

                      Well, I attempted one and so will share with the list. On the left side on
                      the drop down menu of the opening page, I selected "on Az 1715-osszeiras".
                      I went to a page with a large blank space on a green field. Here is how I
                      have deciphered the fields/spaces.

                      1. Bárhol az adatbázisban = means "Anywhere in the database" 2. Helység =
                      means "place or locality" 3. Lipszky-féle helységnév = means "_____ toward
                      locality". I wasn't able to translate "Lipszky" 4. 1913-as helységnév =
                      means "1913-as to place/locality" 5. 1913-as megyebeosztás = means "1913 as
                      county arrangement/apportionment" 6. Mai hivatalos helységnév = means
                      "today's official place" 7. Vásárhely = means "market/fair place" 8.
                      Adózók - means "impose taxes/rates"

                      Kifejezések kapcsolata a mezõn belül: means and this is a guess of sorts:
                      "Expression/word that have relation with the fields". I have to spoof
                      myself here because at first I thought it meant meadows.......smile......but
                      I believe it means "as fields in a computer space".

                      a mezõk között: means "fields inbetween"

                      The three choices are: "es" which means "and" ~ "vagy" which means "or" ~
                      "nem" means "no/not".

                      Now, if you click on the arrows which are placed at the end of each field,
                      the right side of the screen has long........long.........long lists which
                      are slow to go through. There is a long list of numbers in different
                      digits.......then it starts with "a" and seems to be a variety of
                      words....names of people...nouns....even some verbs. It is a cumbersome
                      list. I have never made it through the entire list. Oh, and of course, all
                      of this is at the website: www.arcanum.hu/mol.

                      And the word at the end: "Kereses" means "Look"........

                      I would definitely not call this a tutorial.........just a "naive guide" to
                      what may be in this page. So hopefully, someone a lot smarter than me will
                      take this to a higher level. Again, thanks to this list which is always
                      friendly and helpful.

                      Cheers,
                      Jan






                      Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
                      Great news! Several 17th and 18th Century Magyar Census images and/or
                      transcriptions are now available online.
                      • The 1715 Census is now available online at no fee via Arcanum - These are
                      actual scans of all the individual pages and transcriptions of the original
                      census document. The transcriptions are computer-searchable. Thanks to
                      Peter Nagy for the "heads up." This may be a limited time offer! • 1623,
                      1631, 1691 Ubarial Census transcriptions are also online available
                      at no fee via Arcanum. These are transcriptions ONLY. The transcriptions
                      are computer-searchable. This may be also be a limited time offer!

                      I would very much like to hear how they work for you. Happy Hunting!
                      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/index.htm#new

                      ______________
                      Bill Tarkulich





                      To unsubscribe from this group, go to
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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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                    • Jan Ammann
                      Hello Bill.... You are most welcome. It s just a little payback for all the help this list has given me. You are very brave to post this on your web page!
                      Message 10 of 26 , Mar 3, 2005
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                        Hello Bill....

                        You are most welcome. It's just a little "payback" for all the help this list has given me. You are very brave to post this on your web page! I have done some work on the other specialized menus on arcanum and will post them if and when I finish them. It is always a struggle with Hungarian language.

                        Cheers..............Jan



                        Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
                        Thank you Jan! - If you don't mind, I'll post your remarks on the web page.
                        We'll go back someday and edit it, after everyone's initial investigations
                        settle down.


                        ______________
                        Bill Tarkulich




                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Jan Ammann [mailto:janammann@...]
                        Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:10 PM
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [S-R] 1600-1700s Hung Census



                        Hi Bill........

                        Before I even get started I have to say I got a good laugh out of your
                        statement to me about searching for the village "Jobahaza". You gave me
                        some examples and then you said, "if you are really desperate" ........well,
                        I have to say that I thought everybody who searches in this part of Eastern
                        Europe stays in "a desperate state".........at least, I
                        do..........smile.........grin.

                        You mentioned that if any of us decided to click on one of the specialized
                        menus instead of a global search in the 1715 or other census we were to pass
                        on our info. So here is mine!

                        Well, I attempted one and so will share with the list. On the left side on
                        the drop down menu of the opening page, I selected "on Az 1715-osszeiras".
                        I went to a page with a large blank space on a green field. Here is how I
                        have deciphered the fields/spaces.

                        1. B�rhol az adatb�zisban = means "Anywhere in the database" 2. Helys�g =
                        means "place or locality" 3. Lipszky-f�le helys�gn�v = means "_____ toward
                        locality". I wasn't able to translate "Lipszky" 4. 1913-as helys�gn�v =
                        means "1913-as to place/locality" 5. 1913-as megyebeoszt�s = means "1913 as
                        county arrangement/apportionment" 6. Mai hivatalos helys�gn�v = means
                        "today's official place" 7. V�s�rhely = means "market/fair place" 8.
                        Ad�z�k - means "impose taxes/rates"

                        Kifejez�sek kapcsolata a mez�n bel�l: means and this is a guess of sorts:
                        "Expression/word that have relation with the fields". I have to spoof
                        myself here because at first I thought it meant meadows.......smile......but
                        I believe it means "as fields in a computer space".

                        a mez�k k�z�tt: means "fields inbetween"

                        The three choices are: "es" which means "and" ~ "vagy" which means "or" ~
                        "nem" means "no/not".

                        Now, if you click on the arrows which are placed at the end of each field,
                        the right side of the screen has long........long.........long lists which
                        are slow to go through. There is a long list of numbers in different
                        digits.......then it starts with "a" and seems to be a variety of
                        words....names of people...nouns....even some verbs. It is a cumbersome
                        list. I have never made it through the entire list. Oh, and of course, all
                        of this is at the website: www.arcanum.hu/mol.

                        And the word at the end: "Kereses" means "Look"........

                        I would definitely not call this a tutorial.........just a "naive guide" to
                        what may be in this page. So hopefully, someone a lot smarter than me will
                        take this to a higher level. Again, thanks to this list which is always
                        friendly and helpful.

                        Cheers,
                        Jan






                        Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
                        Great news! Several 17th and 18th Century Magyar Census images and/or
                        transcriptions are now available online.
                        � The 1715 Census is now available online at no fee via Arcanum - These are
                        actual scans of all the individual pages and transcriptions of the original
                        census document. The transcriptions are computer-searchable. Thanks to
                        Peter Nagy for the "heads up." This may be a limited time offer! � 1623,
                        1631, 1691 Ubarial Census transcriptions are also online available
                        at no fee via Arcanum. These are transcriptions ONLY. The transcriptions
                        are computer-searchable. This may be also be a limited time offer!

                        I would very much like to hear how they work for you. Happy Hunting!
                        http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/index.htm#new

                        ______________
                        Bill Tarkulich





                        To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                        http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                        SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Jan Ammann
                        Hello Peter........Thanks for the Lipszky word. I thought it was a proper name but was not sure. And yes...........thank you very much........I do understand
                        Message 11 of 26 , Mar 3, 2005
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                          Hello Peter........Thanks for the Lipszky word. I thought it was a proper name but was not sure. And yes...........thank you very much........I do understand your instructions about the long, long, long list on the right side of the screen. Your instructions will help me "literally fly through it" and that is very helpful. It is too bad you do not live in Texas as I would probably lock you in a room and give you all the "Hungarian stuff" I have yet to try and translate!! And you would be happy as I am a good cook!!! Just kidding, of course!

                          Thank you again for your very precise and understandable way to "navigate the long, long, long lists!" And I am sure we all look forward to your tutorial.

                          Cheers, Jan


                          Peter Nagy wrote...

                          Jan,

                          I am fluent in Hungarian and I intend to draft a tutorial, but this week
                          I am very busy. You and Bill Tarkulich have done a good start. Only few
                          comments:
                          The Lipszky is a reference to Lipszky gazetteer.

                          You wrote:

                          >Now, if you click on the arrows which are placed at the end of each field, the right side of the screen has long........long.........long lists which are slow to go through. There is a long list of numbers in different digits.......then it starts with "a" and seems to be a variety of words....names of people...nouns....even some verbs. It is a cumbersome list. I have never made it through the entire list.
                          >
                          This list is very helpful, but its use is very tricky. Here is na example:
                          You wish to search the name of the taxpayer, there is a field with name
                          "Ad�z�k". You have to click to the green arrow located right for the
                          field. After some time (depending on the server workload and speed of
                          your connection) a new list on the right page of the screen will be
                          loaded "Az Ad�z�k mez�ben el�fordul� szavak" - here are shown all the
                          surname variations included in the database. You have now to move the
                          cursor to any item in this list. You can move through the list using
                          navigation keys of your keyboard, but also you can do quick jumps to the
                          desired letter by hitting the alphabetic keys. Pressing "t" you will
                          jump to the surname "Ta�k". Pressing the second key "u" you will
                          undertake next jump to "tuba". etc. After you have selected your
                          surname, you have double click on the selected name and this will be
                          pasted to the surname field. There is now way back, thus you must start
                          new search pressing the green arrow button. The similar procedure is to
                          be used for remaining fields.

                          Let me please know, if it was understandable.

                          Peter

                          --
                          Cilistovska 20
                          931 01 Samorin
                          Slovak Republic

                          tel: +421 31 560 0641
                          mobile: +421 905 490 552
                          http://www.centroconsult.sk





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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Peter Nagy
                          Dear Jan, Bill and others, I invite you to comment the draft of 1715 census guide. It is not yet linked to other centroconsult pages. The URL is:
                          Message 12 of 26 , Mar 3, 2005
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                            Dear Jan, Bill and others,

                            I invite you to comment the draft of 1715 census guide. It is not yet
                            linked to other centroconsult pages. The URL is:
                            http://www.centroconsult.sk/genealogy/census.html

                            Peter

                            --
                            Cilistovska 20
                            931 01 Samorin
                            Slovak Republic

                            tel: +421 31 560 0641
                            mobile: +421 905 490 552
                            http://www.centroconsult.sk
                          • Jan Ammann
                            Hello Peter...... First of all, the page is very well constructed. The way you set up the area/space that needs to filled in with your family data is
                            Message 13 of 26 , Mar 3, 2005
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                              Hello Peter......

                              First of all, the page is very well constructed. The way you set up the area/space that needs to filled in with your family data is excellent. By placing the English words alongside the Hungarian words you have created an "easy and almost fool-proof" method of finding your information. I consider this the "best part of the whole page".

                              Then, by telling us how to navigate the long, long lists, you have helped us manage our time more effectively by not having to "needlessly search". You make it look very easy. And the instructions for jumping from alphabet to alphabet is excellent.

                              And, of course, the examples are the "icing on the cake".........everyone should be able to now go through this section of Arcanum with speed and accuracy. And the showing of the villages where the Kozlia name occured just reinforces your method of presentation. You have done it all very effectively yet with simple and uncluttered language. (Aside to Janet.....any connection??)

                              I feel very honored that my name is at the bottom of the page alongside Bill Tarkulich. And that you used my very rudimentary tutorial is itself very gratifying to me. You guys are the "pros".........Thank you for letting an amateur like myself in!!

                              Cheers and many thanks!

                              Jan


                              Peter Nagy <nagy@...> wrote:
                              Dear Jan, Bill and others,

                              I invite you to comment the draft of 1715 census guide. It is not yet
                              linked to other centroconsult pages. The URL is:
                              http://www.centroconsult.sk/genealogy/census.html

                              Peter

                              --
                              Cilistovska 20
                              931 01 Samorin
                              Slovak Republic

                              tel: +421 31 560 0641
                              mobile: +421 905 490 552
                              http://www.centroconsult.sk




                              To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • bbadzio@look.ca
                              I wonder if anyone knows whether there are any plans (by Arcanum or others) to put the 1767-1773 Urbarium census on-line. Thank you, Bohdana
                              Message 14 of 26 , Mar 6, 2005
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                                I wonder if anyone knows whether there are any plans (by Arcanum or
                                others) to put the 1767-1773 Urbarium census on-line.

                                Thank you,

                                Bohdana
                              • Paula
                                I too have found 4 villages in Békés megye with possible family memebers. The easiest way I found was to do a surname search, with and without the umlauts.
                                Message 15 of 26 , Mar 6, 2005
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                                  I too have found 4 villages in Békés megye with possible family
                                  memebers. The easiest way I found was to do a surname search, with
                                  and without the umlauts. It will not only bring up the 1715 census
                                  but the ubarial records down below. Not that I can read them. I did
                                  print my info off and also the actual written pages so I have
                                  something to go on later.

                                  paula



                                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <cnovotni@f...> wrote:
                                  > Thanks, Bill, for posting the site for the Hungarian Census, etc.
                                  I have
                                  > been playing around for more than an hour and found both my
                                  paternal and
                                  > maternal grandparents' surnames in the area where they lived,
                                  probably the
                                  > same village for that matter. I had genealogical research done on
                                  both of
                                  > these families and got back as far as the late 1700s. Don't know
                                  where I
                                  > will go next with what I've found. Maybe I will look for the other
                                  side of
                                  > their families. I love the old handwriting - kind of reminds me of
                                  colonial
                                  > American records I've researched. Anyway - grea fun.
                                  > Carol
                                • Bill Tarkulich
                                  I see 1773 in there. Do a search on 1773 ______________ Bill Tarkulich ... From: bbadzio@look.ca [mailto:bbadzio@look.ca] Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 3:38
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Mar 6, 2005
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                                    I see 1773 in there. Do a search on "1773"

                                    ______________
                                    Bill Tarkulich




                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: bbadzio@... [mailto:bbadzio@...]
                                    Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 3:38 AM
                                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [S-R] 1773 Urbarium on-line?



                                    I wonder if anyone knows whether there are any plans (by Arcanum or
                                    others) to put the 1767-1773 Urbarium census on-line.

                                    Thank you,

                                    Bohdana



                                    To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                    http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
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                                  • bbadzio@look.ca
                                    Thank you, Bill, for your suggestion. I don t believe, however, that I see what I m looking for. Just to clarify what Urbarium I mean, it is the one that is
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Mar 6, 2005
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                                      Thank you, Bill, for your suggestion.

                                      I don't believe, however, that I see what I'm looking for. Just to clarify
                                      what Urbarium I mean, it is the one that is found in FHL catalog:

                                      *********************************
                                      Title: Urbéri tabellák, 1767-1773
                                      Authors: Magyarország. Helytartótanács (Main Author)

                                      Notes: Az eredeti iratok mikrofilmre vétele Budapesten a Magyar Országos
                                      Levéltárban történt.
                                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      Feudal land tenancy census records of Hungary, the so-called "Urbarium" or
                                      "Urbéri tabellák", a document that defines the goods and services that a
                                      serf was obligated to give to the feudal lord. Includes names of
                                      landowners and serfs. Arranged by counties, and within the counties by
                                      villages in alphabetical order. Includes primarily the years 1767-1773,
                                      with some entries and the index covering the years 1723-1848. Some areas
                                      that were in Hungary when these records were kept are now in Slovakia,
                                      Romania and Ukraine
                                      *************************

                                      When I searched Arcanum for "1773", 142 hits came up. Part of the titles
                                      looked similar to this:

                                      **Urbaria et Conscriptiones/IRREGESTRATA/UC 4/UC 4 : 17**,

                                      and the other part - to this:

                                      **A középkori Magyarország levéltári forrásainak adatbázisa/U szekció:
                                      DIPLOMATIKAI FÉNYKÉPGYÛJTEMÉNY/Magyarország/Vas Megyei Levéltár/DF
                                      262095**

                                      Just to make sure that this Urbarium was not "hidden" (meaning that it
                                      could not be browsed, only searched), I searched the whole database for
                                      the surnames I had just recorded from the microfilm copy of the Urbarium.
                                      There were many I did not find.

                                      Of course, none of what I just said proves that the Urbarium I'm looking
                                      for is not on the Arcanum site, but I have my doubts that it is there...

                                      Will be grateful for any further information.

                                      Bohdana




                                      >
                                      > I see 1773 in there. Do a search on "1773"
                                      >
                                      > ______________
                                      > Bill Tarkulich
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: bbadzio@... [mailto:bbadzio@...]
                                      > Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 3:38 AM
                                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: [S-R] 1773 Urbarium on-line?
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > I wonder if anyone knows whether there are any plans (by Arcanum or
                                      > others) to put the 1767-1773 Urbarium census on-line.
                                      >
                                      > Thank you,
                                      >
                                      > Bohdana
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