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1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer Available Online

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  • Bill Tarkulich
    Great news! Several 17th and 18th Century Magyar Census images and/or transcriptions are now available online. Also online is the important Dvsorszak
    Message 1 of 26 , Mar 1, 2005
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      Great news! Several 17th and 18th Century Magyar Census images and/or
      transcriptions are now available online. Also online is the important
      Dvsorszak Gazetteer. Admittedly, they are not of much genealogical value,
      but they are important insights into the development of the area. These
      census cover all of the "old Hungary", which means not only present-day
      Slovakia, but also Ukraine, Hungary, Romania, etc.

      Shown below are the highlights and links to web pages I have developed to
      help initiate you on their usage.

      • Gazetteers
      • Dvorzsák Gazetteer - Based on the 1877 Census, scans of the actual
      pages of this Ecclesiastical Gazetteer are now available online at no fee.
      Useful in determining where a villager of a particular faith may have
      attended church. An interesting compliment to Auslander's newly-published
      "Genealogical Gazetteer of the Kingdom of Hungary".
      • The 1715 Census is now available online at no fee via Arcanum - These are
      actual scans of all the individual pages and transcriptions of the original
      census document. The transcriptions are computer-searchable. Thanks to
      Peter Nagy for the "heads up." This may be a limited time offer!
      • 1623, 1631, 1691 Ubarial Census transcriptions are also online available
      at no fee via Arcanum. These are transcriptions ONLY. The transcriptions
      are computer-searchable. This may be also be a limited time offer!

      I would very much like to hear how they work for you. Happy Hunting!
      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/index.htm#new

      ______________
      Bill Tarkulich
    • Bohdana Badzio
      Bill, In your instructions, I see the explanation of the 1715 Census. However, your section on the 1623, 1631, and 1691 Urbarium census talks about the 1715
      Message 2 of 26 , Mar 1, 2005
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        Bill,

        In your instructions, I see the explanation of the 1715 Census.
        However, your section on the 1623, 1631, and 1691 Urbarium census
        talks about the 1715 Census too. I don't see any references to those
        early censuses on the Arcanum site either (not that I can understand,
        at least).

        Could you explain please?

        Thank you,

        Bohdana




        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich"
        <bill.tarkulich@i...> wrote:
        > Great news! Several 17th and 18th Century Magyar Census images
        and/or
        > transcriptions are now available online. Also online is the
        important
        > Dvsorszak Gazetteer. Admittedly, they are not of much genealogical
        value,
        > but they are important insights into the development of the area.
        These
        > census cover all of the "old Hungary", which means not only present-
        day
        > Slovakia, but also Ukraine, Hungary, Romania, etc.
        >
        > Shown below are the highlights and links to web pages I have
        developed to
        > help initiate you on their usage.
        >
        > • Gazetteers
        > • Dvorzsák Gazetteer - Based on the 1877 Census, scans of the
        actual
        > pages of this Ecclesiastical Gazetteer are now available online at
        no fee.
        > Useful in determining where a villager of a particular faith may
        have
        > attended church. An interesting compliment to Auslander's newly-
        published
        > "Genealogical Gazetteer of the Kingdom of Hungary".
        > • The 1715 Census is now available online at no fee via Arcanum -
        These are
        > actual scans of all the individual pages and transcriptions of the
        original
        > census document. The transcriptions are computer-searchable.
        Thanks to
        > Peter Nagy for the "heads up." This may be a limited time offer!
        > • 1623, 1631, 1691 Ubarial Census transcriptions are also online
        available
        > at no fee via Arcanum. These are transcriptions ONLY. The
        transcriptions
        > are computer-searchable. This may be also be a limited time offer!
        >
        > I would very much like to hear how they work for you. Happy
        Hunting!
        > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/index.htm#new
        >
        > ______________
        > Bill Tarkulich
      • Caye Caswick
        Ditto ... I too doinked around at that site, but with the language barrier, I felt pretty silly. Any further info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! I
        Message 3 of 26 , Mar 1, 2005
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          Ditto ... I too 'doinked' around at that site, but
          with the language barrier, I felt pretty silly. Any
          further info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! I
          did plug my surname into what seemed to me to be the
          search box and one hit did come up -- but I couldn't
          figure out what it was or where to go next.



          Caye



          --- Bohdana Badzio <bbadzio@...> wrote:

          >
          > Bill,
          >
          > In your instructions, I see the explanation of the
          > 1715 Census.
          > However, your section on the 1623, 1631, and 1691
          > Urbarium census
          > talks about the 1715 Census too. I don't see any
          > references to those
          > early censuses on the Arcanum site either (not that
          > I can understand,
          > at least).
          >
          > Could you explain please?
          >
          > Thank you,
          >
          > Bohdana
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill
          > Tarkulich"
          > <bill.tarkulich@i...> wrote:
          > > Great news! Several 17th and 18th Century Magyar
          > Census images
          > and/or
          > > transcriptions are now available online. Also
          > online is the
          > important
          > > Dvsorszak Gazetteer. Admittedly, they are not of
          > much genealogical
          > value,
          > > but they are important insights into the
          > development of the area.
          > These
          > > census cover all of the "old Hungary", which means
          > not only present-
          > day
          > > Slovakia, but also Ukraine, Hungary, Romania, etc.
          >
          > >
          > > Shown below are the highlights and links to web
          > pages I have
          > developed to
          > > help initiate you on their usage.
          > >
          > > � Gazetteers
          > > � Dvorzs�k Gazetteer - Based on the 1877 Census,
          > scans of the
          > actual
          > > pages of this Ecclesiastical Gazetteer are now
          > available online at
          > no fee.
          > > Useful in determining where a villager of a
          > particular faith may
          > have
          > > attended church. An interesting compliment to
          > Auslander's newly-
          > published
          > > "Genealogical Gazetteer of the Kingdom of
          > Hungary".
          > > � The 1715 Census is now available online at no
          > fee via Arcanum -
          > These are
          > > actual scans of all the individual pages and
          > transcriptions of the
          > original
          > > census document. The transcriptions are
          > computer-searchable.
          > Thanks to
          > > Peter Nagy for the "heads up." This may be a
          > limited time offer!
          > > � 1623, 1631, 1691 Ubarial Census transcriptions
          > are also online
          > available
          > > at no fee via Arcanum. These are transcriptions
          > ONLY. The
          > transcriptions
          > > are computer-searchable. This may be also be a
          > limited time offer!
          > >
          > > I would very much like to hear how they work for
          > you. Happy
          > Hunting!
          > > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/index.htm#new
          > >
          > > ______________
          > > Bill Tarkulich
          >
          >
          >
          >




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        • Bill Tarkulich
          I ll try to give you a little guidance, maybe others can pitch in. I m pretty busy this week, I put it together over the weekend, but I ll do what I can. I ve
          Message 4 of 26 , Mar 1, 2005
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            I'll try to give you a little guidance, maybe others can pitch in. I'm pretty busy this week, I put it together over the weekend, but I'll do what I can.

            I've learned how to use it mostly by banging around at it. The Magyar language doesn't hinder much - there are really not many instructions anyways.

            A couple of notes:
            1. Searching for surnames is probably not a good use of your time, though you are welcome to. The spelling variations are many, and misspellings are legend. You are better off, as I always say, finding your village.

            2. Transcription errors are in this database, just as they are in ellis island records. "Zboj" is transcribed as "Zboy" and "Sboy", "Ubla" is written as "Ublia" and so on.

            3. Remember, the village name in use in the year of the Census is the most important one. Some villages have several name variations. Some effort has been made to show the Magyar name and some other variations.

            4. There may have been significantly different surnames living in a village in the 1600s versus the 1700s and later. There was substantial migration in the late 1700s. I have never seen my surname in my village before the late 1700s. In fact, I've never seen it anywhere in Hungary. This leads me to conclude that my ancestors migrated here about that time from lands far off.

            5. If you want to search on Urbarial census only, you’d need to select “Urbariumok” from the dropdown, then use its customized search screen. I’ve not done it. If you do, please post instructions for everyone to benefit from. So, I can't help you with that one. Read on.

            HOWEVER I think it’s easier to just do a global search on all records. This will reveal the urbarial records. The number of hits for each village is fairly small, unless the village name is common. Remember, a global search can contain multiple words, separate by spaces. You can search on any words found in the transcription. For example, “Zboj 1631” is a valid search.


            So, how do you find the Ubarial Census? Just use the global search. Let me give you one example, that’s all I have time to do for now. We will search for my village, ZBOJ:

            1. At http://www.arcanum.hu/mol/ enter “zboj” into the top left search box, press “Mehet!”
            2. You will see two entries in the right bottom panel.
            3. First entry: Urbaria et Conscriptiones/REGESTRATA/UC 156/UC 156 : 1 Click on it. The top right panel will display a TRANSCRIPTION of this census record. Scroll to the top of this top right panel. (1631) is a 1631 Urbarial census and “(1755. március 11.)” is when the entry was re-written. Notice that the year is no where in the clickable title. They used their own urbarial cataloging system, which I do not have time to decode. You’ll see this entry is all in Latin. This is transcribed – which means that someone read the handwritten original and typed it into the computer database. Beware of typing/reading errors. Notes:
            a. There is no document/page image associated with this record. ONLY the transcription is present.
            b. There are often multiple Urbarial records for each village. Each one will have its own clickable entry.
            4. Second entry: Az 1715. évi országos összeírás/Zemplén � 12. TÉKA/Zboy . Notice it has its own high-level entry and “1715” is prominent, unlike the other census. Click on it. You will see a transcription

            Zboy, Harczos, Harcos, Zemplén, Zboj, SK
            Vásárhely: Homonna
            Adózók neve: Joannes Hubak; Joannes Dunascsák; Ignatius Chiruski; Szrucha Pelecha; Michael Szúk; Mathias Labó; Paulus Klekulo; Mathias Szopko; Hripics Szuk
            Oldalszám: 148, 149, 344,

            This is a listing of the village and it’s name variations (Zboy, Harczos, Harcos, Zemplén, Zboj), SK = Slovakia

            Vásárhely: Homonna = contained in the Humenne Estate
            Adózók neve: Joannes Hubak; Joannes Dunascsák; Ignatius Chiruski; Szrucha Pelecha; Michael Szúk; Mathias Labó; Paulus Klekulo; Mathias Szopko; Hripics Szuk = Property holder names. These have been transcribed. Watchout for misspellings/transcriptions! Check agains the original scanned pages (below)
            “Oldalszám: 148, 149, 344,” are links to the actual census page scanned images. In this case, there are three page images. Click on each one, which opens a separate image window.
            Hope this helps,
            Bill







            >
            > From: "Bohdana Badzio" <bbadzio@...>
            > Date: 2005/03/01 Tue PM 02:19:45 EST
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [S-R] Re: 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer Available Online
            >
            >
            >
            > Bill,
            >
            > In your instructions, I see the explanation of the 1715 Census.
            > However, your section on the 1623, 1631, and 1691 Urbarium census
            > talks about the 1715 Census too. I don't see any references to those
            > early censuses on the Arcanum site either (not that I can understand,
            > at least).
            >
            > Could you explain please?
            >
            > Thank you,
            >
            > Bohdana
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich"
            > <bill.tarkulich@i...> wrote:
            > > Great news! Several 17th and 18th Century Magyar Census images
            > and/or
            > > transcriptions are now available online. Also online is the
            > important
            > > Dvsorszak Gazetteer. Admittedly, they are not of much genealogical
            > value,
            > > but they are important insights into the development of the area.
            > These
            > > census cover all of the "old Hungary", which means not only present-
            > day
            > > Slovakia, but also Ukraine, Hungary, Romania, etc.
            > >
            > > Shown below are the highlights and links to web pages I have
            > developed to
            > > help initiate you on their usage.
            > >
            > > • Gazetteers
            > > • Dvorzsák Gazetteer - Based on the 1877 Census, scans of the
            > actual
            > > pages of this Ecclesiastical Gazetteer are now available online at
            > no fee.
            > > Useful in determining where a villager of a particular faith may
            > have
            > > attended church. An interesting compliment to Auslander's newly-
            > published
            > > "Genealogical Gazetteer of the Kingdom of Hungary".
            > > • The 1715 Census is now available online at no fee via Arcanum -
            > These are
            > > actual scans of all the individual pages and transcriptions of the
            > original
            > > census document. The transcriptions are computer-searchable.
            > Thanks to
            > > Peter Nagy for the "heads up." This may be a limited time offer!
            > > • 1623, 1631, 1691 Ubarial Census transcriptions are also online
            > available
            > > at no fee via Arcanum. These are transcriptions ONLY. The
            > transcriptions
            > > are computer-searchable. This may be also be a limited time offer!
            > >
            > > I would very much like to hear how they work for you. Happy
            > Hunting!
            > > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/index.htm#new
            > >
            > > ______________
            > > Bill Tarkulich
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Bill Tarkulich
            Peter Nagy said that MAYBE IF he had time, he might write a tutorial. Remember, we all need to help each other out here. We re all on the bleeding edge of the
            Message 5 of 26 , Mar 1, 2005
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              Peter Nagy said that MAYBE IF he had time, he might write a tutorial.
              Remember, we all need to help each other out here. We're all on the bleeding edge of the Internet Infancy. Anything anyone else wants to contribute, please step up! Don't worry if it has errors - my work certainly has errors, and I repair them as they are brought to my attention or learn more

              Bill


              >
              > From: Caye Caswick <ccaswick@...>
              > Date: 2005/03/01 Tue PM 03:06:23 EST
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer Available Online
              >
              >
              >
              > Ditto ... I too 'doinked' around at that site, but
              > with the language barrier, I felt pretty silly. Any
              > further info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! I
              > did plug my surname into what seemed to me to be the
              > search box and one hit did come up -- but I couldn't
              > figure out what it was or where to go next.
              >
              >
              >
              > Caye
              >
              >
              >
              > --- Bohdana Badzio <bbadzio@...> wrote:
              >
              > >
              > > Bill,
              > >
              > > In your instructions, I see the explanation of the
              > > 1715 Census.
              > > However, your section on the 1623, 1631, and 1691
              > > Urbarium census
              > > talks about the 1715 Census too. I don't see any
              > > references to those
              > > early censuses on the Arcanum site either (not that
              > > I can understand,
              > > at least).
              > >
              > > Could you explain please?
              > >
              > > Thank you,
              > >
              > > Bohdana
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill
              > > Tarkulich"
              > > <bill.tarkulich@i...> wrote:
              > > > Great news! Several 17th and 18th Century Magyar
              > > Census images
              > > and/or
              > > > transcriptions are now available online. Also
              > > online is the
              > > important
              > > > Dvsorszak Gazetteer. Admittedly, they are not of
              > > much genealogical
              > > value,
              > > > but they are important insights into the
              > > development of the area.
              > > These
              > > > census cover all of the "old Hungary", which means
              > > not only present-
              > > day
              > > > Slovakia, but also Ukraine, Hungary, Romania, etc.
              > >
              > > >
              > > > Shown below are the highlights and links to web
              > > pages I have
              > > developed to
              > > > help initiate you on their usage.
              > > >
              > > > • Gazetteers
              > > > • Dvorzsák Gazetteer - Based on the 1877 Census,
              > > scans of the
              > > actual
              > > > pages of this Ecclesiastical Gazetteer are now
              > > available online at
              > > no fee.
              > > > Useful in determining where a villager of a
              > > particular faith may
              > > have
              > > > attended church. An interesting compliment to
              > > Auslander's newly-
              > > published
              > > > "Genealogical Gazetteer of the Kingdom of
              > > Hungary".
              > > > • The 1715 Census is now available online at no
              > > fee via Arcanum -
              > > These are
              > > > actual scans of all the individual pages and
              > > transcriptions of the
              > > original
              > > > census document. The transcriptions are
              > > computer-searchable.
              > > Thanks to
              > > > Peter Nagy for the "heads up." This may be a
              > > limited time offer!
              > > > • 1623, 1631, 1691 Ubarial Census transcriptions
              > > are also online
              > > available
              > > > at no fee via Arcanum. These are transcriptions
              > > ONLY. The
              > > transcriptions
              > > > are computer-searchable. This may be also be a
              > > limited time offer!
              > > >
              > > > I would very much like to hear how they work for
              > > you. Happy
              > > Hunting!
              > > > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/index.htm#new
              > > >
              > > > ______________
              > > > Bill Tarkulich
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________
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              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Caye Caswick
              Thanks Bill, going to try again with your instructions, I don t expect miracles, plus it s kinda fun playing in my spare time. Caye ...
              Message 6 of 26 , Mar 1, 2005
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                Thanks Bill, going to try again with your
                instructions, I don't expect miracles, plus it's kinda
                fun playing in my spare time.



                Caye



                --- Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:

                > Peter Nagy said that MAYBE IF he had time, he might
                > write a tutorial.
                > Remember, we all need to help each other out here.
                > We're all on the bleeding edge of the Internet
                > Infancy. Anything anyone else wants to contribute,
                > please step up! Don't worry if it has errors - my
                > work certainly has errors, and I repair them as they
                > are brought to my attention or learn more
                >
                > Bill
                >
                >
                > >
                > > From: Caye Caswick <ccaswick@...>
                > > Date: 2005/03/01 Tue PM 03:06:23 EST
                > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: 1600-1700s Hung Census
                > &Gazetteer Available Online
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Ditto ... I too 'doinked' around at that site, but
                > > with the language barrier, I felt pretty silly.
                > Any
                > > further info would be greatly appreciated.
                > Thanks! I
                > > did plug my surname into what seemed to me to be
                > the
                > > search box and one hit did come up -- but I
                > couldn't
                > > figure out what it was or where to go next.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Caye
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- Bohdana Badzio <bbadzio@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > >
                > > > Bill,
                > > >
                > > > In your instructions, I see the explanation of
                > the
                > > > 1715 Census.
                > > > However, your section on the 1623, 1631, and
                > 1691
                > > > Urbarium census
                > > > talks about the 1715 Census too. I don't see any
                > > > references to those
                > > > early censuses on the Arcanum site either (not
                > that
                > > > I can understand,
                > > > at least).
                > > >
                > > > Could you explain please?
                > > >
                > > > Thank you,
                > > >
                > > > Bohdana
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill
                > > > Tarkulich"
                > > > <bill.tarkulich@i...> wrote:
                > > > > Great news! Several 17th and 18th Century
                > Magyar
                > > > Census images
                > > > and/or
                > > > > transcriptions are now available online. Also
                > > > online is the
                > > > important
                > > > > Dvsorszak Gazetteer. Admittedly, they are not
                > of
                > > > much genealogical
                > > > value,
                > > > > but they are important insights into the
                > > > development of the area.
                > > > These
                > > > > census cover all of the "old Hungary", which
                > means
                > > > not only present-
                > > > day
                > > > > Slovakia, but also Ukraine, Hungary, Romania,
                > etc.
                > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Shown below are the highlights and links to
                > web
                > > > pages I have
                > > > developed to
                > > > > help initiate you on their usage.
                > > > >
                > > > > � Gazetteers
                > > > > � Dvorzs�k Gazetteer - Based on the 1877
                > Census,
                > > > scans of the
                > > > actual
                > > > > pages of this Ecclesiastical Gazetteer are now
                > > > available online at
                > > > no fee.
                > > > > Useful in determining where a villager of a
                > > > particular faith may
                > > > have
                > > > > attended church. An interesting compliment to
                > > > Auslander's newly-
                > > > published
                > > > > "Genealogical Gazetteer of the Kingdom of
                > > > Hungary".
                > > > > � The 1715 Census is now available online at
                > no
                > > > fee via Arcanum -
                > > > These are
                > > > > actual scans of all the individual pages and
                > > > transcriptions of the
                > > > original
                > > > > census document. The transcriptions are
                > > > computer-searchable.
                > > > Thanks to
                > > > > Peter Nagy for the "heads up." This may be a
                > > > limited time offer!
                > > > > � 1623, 1631, 1691 Ubarial Census
                > transcriptions
                > > > are also online
                > > > available
                > > > > at no fee via Arcanum. These are
                > transcriptions
                > > > ONLY. The
                > > > transcriptions
                > > > > are computer-searchable. This may be also be
                > a
                > > > limited time offer!
                > > > >
                > > > > I would very much like to hear how they work
                > for
                > > > you. Happy
                > > > Hunting!
                > > > > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/index.htm#new
                > > > >
                > > > > ______________
                > > > > Bill Tarkulich
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > __________________________________
                > > Do you Yahoo!?
                > > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail
                > SpamGuard.
                > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or-
                > send blank email to
                > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >




                __________________________________
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                Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
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              • Bill Tarkulich
                Try to repeat my example. That should give you some confidence that you are working through it right. If you still have troubles, post the names you are
                Message 7 of 26 , Mar 1, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Try to repeat my example. That should give you some confidence that you are working through it right. If you still have troubles, post the names you are looking for. There are many readers on this list and someone will undoubtedly be generous enough to help.

                  I already heard back from one researcher who found three of her villages. This could also be a great boom to people in the Transcarpathia section of Ukraine, where there is a dearth of accessible records.

                  Regards,
                  Bill

                  >
                  > From: Caye Caswick <ccaswick@...>
                  > Date: 2005/03/01 Tue PM 04:00:48 EST
                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: Re: [S-R] Re: 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer Available Online
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Thanks Bill, going to try again with your
                  > instructions, I don't expect miracles, plus it's kinda
                  > fun playing in my spare time.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Caye
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Peter Nagy said that MAYBE IF he had time, he might
                  > > write a tutorial.
                  > > Remember, we all need to help each other out here.
                  > > We're all on the bleeding edge of the Internet
                  > > Infancy. Anything anyone else wants to contribute,
                  > > please step up! Don't worry if it has errors - my
                  > > work certainly has errors, and I repair them as they
                  > > are brought to my attention or learn more
                  > >
                  > > Bill
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > > > From: Caye Caswick <ccaswick@...>
                  > > > Date: 2005/03/01 Tue PM 03:06:23 EST
                  > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: 1600-1700s Hung Census
                  > > &Gazetteer Available Online
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Ditto ... I too 'doinked' around at that site, but
                  > > > with the language barrier, I felt pretty silly.
                  > > Any
                  > > > further info would be greatly appreciated.
                  > > Thanks! I
                  > > > did plug my surname into what seemed to me to be
                  > > the
                  > > > search box and one hit did come up -- but I
                  > > couldn't
                  > > > figure out what it was or where to go next.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Caye
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- Bohdana Badzio <bbadzio@...> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Bill,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > In your instructions, I see the explanation of
                  > > the
                  > > > > 1715 Census.
                  > > > > However, your section on the 1623, 1631, and
                  > > 1691
                  > > > > Urbarium census
                  > > > > talks about the 1715 Census too. I don't see any
                  > > > > references to those
                  > > > > early censuses on the Arcanum site either (not
                  > > that
                  > > > > I can understand,
                  > > > > at least).
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Could you explain please?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Thank you,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Bohdana
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill
                  > > > > Tarkulich"
                  > > > > <bill.tarkulich@i...> wrote:
                  > > > > > Great news! Several 17th and 18th Century
                  > > Magyar
                  > > > > Census images
                  > > > > and/or
                  > > > > > transcriptions are now available online. Also
                  > > > > online is the
                  > > > > important
                  > > > > > Dvsorszak Gazetteer. Admittedly, they are not
                  > > of
                  > > > > much genealogical
                  > > > > value,
                  > > > > > but they are important insights into the
                  > > > > development of the area.
                  > > > > These
                  > > > > > census cover all of the "old Hungary", which
                  > > means
                  > > > > not only present-
                  > > > > day
                  > > > > > Slovakia, but also Ukraine, Hungary, Romania,
                  > > etc.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Shown below are the highlights and links to
                  > > web
                  > > > > pages I have
                  > > > > developed to
                  > > > > > help initiate you on their usage.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > • Gazetteers
                  > > > > > • Dvorzsák Gazetteer - Based on the 1877
                  > > Census,
                  > > > > scans of the
                  > > > > actual
                  > > > > > pages of this Ecclesiastical Gazetteer are now
                  > > > > available online at
                  > > > > no fee.
                  > > > > > Useful in determining where a villager of a
                  > > > > particular faith may
                  > > > > have
                  > > > > > attended church. An interesting compliment to
                  > > > > Auslander's newly-
                  > > > > published
                  > > > > > "Genealogical Gazetteer of the Kingdom of
                  > > > > Hungary".
                  > > > > > • The 1715 Census is now available online at
                  > > no
                  > > > > fee via Arcanum -
                  > > > > These are
                  > > > > > actual scans of all the individual pages and
                  > > > > transcriptions of the
                  > > > > original
                  > > > > > census document. The transcriptions are
                  > > > > computer-searchable.
                  > > > > Thanks to
                  > > > > > Peter Nagy for the "heads up." This may be a
                  > > > > limited time offer!
                  > > > > > • 1623, 1631, 1691 Ubarial Census
                  > > transcriptions
                  > > > > are also online
                  > > > > available
                  > > > > > at no fee via Arcanum. These are
                  > > transcriptions
                  > > > > ONLY. The
                  > > > > transcriptions
                  > > > > > are computer-searchable. This may be also be
                  > > a
                  > > > > limited time offer!
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > I would very much like to hear how they work
                  > > for
                  > > > > you. Happy
                  > > > > Hunting!
                  > > > > > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/index.htm#new
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > ______________
                  > > > > > Bill Tarkulich
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > __________________________________
                  > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > > > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail
                  > > SpamGuard.
                  > > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or-
                  > > send blank email to
                  > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________
                  > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
                  > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Bohdana Badzio
                  Bill, thank you for the explanations. I greatly appreciate your time and effort. I see how you work with the village search. I tried my villages (in the
                  Message 8 of 26 , Mar 1, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Bill,

                    thank you for the explanations. I greatly appreciate your time and
                    effort.

                    I see how you work with the village search. I tried my villages (in
                    the Transcarpathia, incidentally), and they were there, both in the
                    1715 census and in some earlier ones. The surname search worked as
                    well (I found that the search is sensitive to the diacritical marks,
                    but it accepts the * as a wild-cart!).

                    What I initially hoped to do was to browse through the 17th-century
                    censuses the same way it is possible to do with the 1715 census. But
                    I think they must be incorporated into "Urbaria et Conscriptiones",
                    and are not browsable.

                    These are wonderful resources (let's hope they stay freely available
                    for quite some time). Before today, the earliest record for my area
                    was the 1775 Urbarium, available on FHL microfilms.

                    Bohdana



                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Bill Tarkulich
                    <bill.tarkulich@i...> wrote:
                    > I'll try to give you a little guidance, maybe others can pitch in.
                    I'm pretty busy this week, I put it together over the weekend, but
                    I'll do what I can.
                    >
                    > I've learned how to use it mostly by banging around at it. The
                    Magyar language doesn't hinder much - there are really not many
                    instructions anyways.
                    >
                    > A couple of notes:
                    > 1. Searching for surnames is probably not a good use of your time,
                    though you are welcome to. The spelling variations are many, and
                    misspellings are legend. You are better off, as I always say,
                    finding your village.
                    >
                    > 2. Transcription errors are in this database, just as they are in
                    ellis island records. "Zboj" is transcribed as "Zboy"
                    and "Sboy", "Ubla" is written as "Ublia" and so on.
                    >
                    > 3. Remember, the village name in use in the year of the Census is
                    the most important one. Some villages have several name variations.
                    Some effort has been made to show the Magyar name and some other
                    variations.
                    >
                    > 4. There may have been significantly different surnames living in a
                    village in the 1600s versus the 1700s and later. There was
                    substantial migration in the late 1700s. I have never seen my
                    surname in my village before the late 1700s. In fact, I've never
                    seen it anywhere in Hungary. This leads me to conclude that my
                    ancestors migrated here about that time from lands far off.
                    >
                    > 5. If you want to search on Urbarial census only, you'd need to
                    select "Urbariumok" from the dropdown, then use its customized search
                    screen. I've not done it. If you do, please post instructions for
                    everyone to benefit from. So, I can't help you with that one. Read
                    on.
                    >
                    > HOWEVER I think it's easier to just do a global search on all
                    records. This will reveal the urbarial records. The number of
                    hits for each village is fairly small, unless the village name is
                    common. Remember, a global search can contain multiple words,
                    separate by spaces. You can search on any words found in the
                    transcription. For example, "Zboj 1631" is a valid search.
                    >
                    >
                    > So, how do you find the Ubarial Census? Just use the global
                    search. Let me give you one example, that's all I have time to do
                    for now. We will search for my village, ZBOJ:
                    >
                    > 1. At http://www.arcanum.hu/mol/ enter "zboj" into the top left
                    search box, press "Mehet!"
                    > 2. You will see two entries in the right bottom panel.
                    > 3. First entry: Urbaria et Conscriptiones/REGESTRATA/UC 156/UC
                    156 : 1 Click on it. The top right panel will display a
                    TRANSCRIPTION of this census record. Scroll to the top of this top
                    right panel. (1631) is a 1631 Urbarial census and "(1755. március
                    11.)" is when the entry was re-written. Notice that the year is no
                    where in the clickable title. They used their own urbarial
                    cataloging system, which I do not have time to decode. You'll see
                    this entry is all in Latin. This is transcribed – which means that
                    someone read the handwritten original and typed it into the computer
                    database. Beware of typing/reading errors. Notes:
                    > a. There is no document/page image associated with this record.
                    ONLY the transcription is present.
                    > b. There are often multiple Urbarial records for each village.
                    Each one will have its own clickable entry.
                    > 4. Second entry: Az 1715. évi országos összeírás/Zemplén
                    � 12. TÉKA/Zboy . Notice it has its own high-level entry and
                    "1715" is prominent, unlike the other census. Click on it. You
                    will see a transcription
                    >
                    > Zboy, Harczos, Harcos, Zemplén, Zboj, SK
                    > Vásárhely: Homonna
                    > Adózók neve: Joannes Hubak; Joannes Dunascsák; Ignatius Chiruski;
                    Szrucha Pelecha; Michael Szúk; Mathias Labó; Paulus Klekulo; Mathias
                    Szopko; Hripics Szuk
                    > Oldalszám: 148, 149, 344,
                    >
                    > This is a listing of the village and it's name variations (Zboy,
                    Harczos, Harcos, Zemplén, Zboj), SK = Slovakia
                    >
                    > Vásárhely: Homonna = contained in the Humenne Estate
                    > Adózók neve: Joannes Hubak; Joannes Dunascsák; Ignatius Chiruski;
                    Szrucha Pelecha; Michael Szúk; Mathias Labó; Paulus Klekulo; Mathias
                    Szopko; Hripics Szuk = Property holder names. These have been
                    transcribed. Watchout for misspellings/transcriptions! Check
                    agains the original scanned pages (below)
                    > "Oldalszám: 148, 149, 344," are links to the actual census page
                    scanned images. In this case, there are three page images. Click on
                    each one, which opens a separate image window.
                    > Hope this helps,
                    > Bill
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > From: "Bohdana Badzio" <bbadzio@l...>
                    > > Date: 2005/03/01 Tue PM 02:19:45 EST
                    > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: [S-R] Re: 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer Available
                    Online
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Bill,
                    > >
                    > > In your instructions, I see the explanation of the 1715 Census.
                    > > However, your section on the 1623, 1631, and 1691 Urbarium census
                    > > talks about the 1715 Census too. I don't see any references to
                    those
                    > > early censuses on the Arcanum site either (not that I can
                    understand,
                    > > at least).
                    > >
                    > > Could you explain please?
                    > >
                    > > Thank you,
                    > >
                    > > Bohdana
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich"
                    > > <bill.tarkulich@i...> wrote:
                    > > > Great news! Several 17th and 18th Century Magyar Census
                    images
                    > > and/or
                    > > > transcriptions are now available online. Also online is the
                    > > important
                    > > > Dvsorszak Gazetteer. Admittedly, they are not of much
                    genealogical
                    > > value,
                    > > > but they are important insights into the development of the
                    area.
                    > > These
                    > > > census cover all of the "old Hungary", which means not only
                    present-
                    > > day
                    > > > Slovakia, but also Ukraine, Hungary, Romania, etc.
                    > > >
                    > > > Shown below are the highlights and links to web pages I have
                    > > developed to
                    > > > help initiate you on their usage.
                    > > >
                    > > > • Gazetteers
                    > > > • Dvorzsák Gazetteer - Based on the 1877 Census, scans of the
                    > > actual
                    > > > pages of this Ecclesiastical Gazetteer are now available online
                    at
                    > > no fee.
                    > > > Useful in determining where a villager of a particular faith
                    may
                    > > have
                    > > > attended church. An interesting compliment to Auslander's
                    newly-
                    > > published
                    > > > "Genealogical Gazetteer of the Kingdom of Hungary".
                    > > > • The 1715 Census is now available online at no fee via
                    Arcanum -
                    > > These are
                    > > > actual scans of all the individual pages and transcriptions of
                    the
                    > > original
                    > > > census document. The transcriptions are computer-searchable.
                    > > Thanks to
                    > > > Peter Nagy for the "heads up." This may be a limited time
                    offer!
                    > > > • 1623, 1631, 1691 Ubarial Census transcriptions are also
                    online
                    > > available
                    > > > at no fee via Arcanum. These are transcriptions ONLY. The
                    > > transcriptions
                    > > > are computer-searchable. This may be also be a limited time
                    offer!
                    > > >
                    > > > I would very much like to hear how they work for you. Happy
                    > > Hunting!
                    > > > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/index.htm#new
                    > > >
                    > > > ______________
                    > > > Bill Tarkulich
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
                    to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                  • Bill Tarkulich
                    I think you are right. The Urbarials all seem to be bundled together. Combined with the cryptic titles, it doesn t lend itself to browsing. If you find a
                    Message 9 of 26 , Mar 1, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I think you are right. The Urbarials all seem to be bundled together.
                      Combined with the cryptic titles, it doesn't lend itself to browsing. If
                      you find a way, let me know. Thanks,

                      ______________
                      Bill Tarkulich




                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Bohdana Badzio [mailto:bbadzio@...]
                      Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 6:15 PM
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [S-R] Re: 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer Available Online




                      Bill,

                      thank you for the explanations. I greatly appreciate your time and
                      effort.

                      I see how you work with the village search. I tried my villages (in
                      the Transcarpathia, incidentally), and they were there, both in the
                      1715 census and in some earlier ones. The surname search worked as
                      well (I found that the search is sensitive to the diacritical marks,
                      but it accepts the * as a wild-cart!).

                      What I initially hoped to do was to browse through the 17th-century
                      censuses the same way it is possible to do with the 1715 census. But
                      I think they must be incorporated into "Urbaria et Conscriptiones",
                      and are not browsable.

                      These are wonderful resources (let's hope they stay freely available
                      for quite some time). Before today, the earliest record for my area
                      was the 1775 Urbarium, available on FHL microfilms.

                      Bohdana



                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Bill Tarkulich
                      <bill.tarkulich@i...> wrote:
                      > I'll try to give you a little guidance, maybe others can pitch in.
                      I'm pretty busy this week, I put it together over the weekend, but
                      I'll do what I can.
                      >
                      > I've learned how to use it mostly by banging around at it. The
                      Magyar language doesn't hinder much - there are really not many
                      instructions anyways.
                      >
                      > A couple of notes:
                      > 1. Searching for surnames is probably not a good use of your time,
                      though you are welcome to. The spelling variations are many, and
                      misspellings are legend. You are better off, as I always say,
                      finding your village.
                      >
                      > 2. Transcription errors are in this database, just as they are in
                      ellis island records. "Zboj" is transcribed as "Zboy"
                      and "Sboy", "Ubla" is written as "Ublia" and so on.
                      >
                      > 3. Remember, the village name in use in the year of the Census is
                      the most important one. Some villages have several name variations.
                      Some effort has been made to show the Magyar name and some other
                      variations.
                      >
                      > 4. There may have been significantly different surnames living in a
                      village in the 1600s versus the 1700s and later. There was
                      substantial migration in the late 1700s. I have never seen my
                      surname in my village before the late 1700s. In fact, I've never
                      seen it anywhere in Hungary. This leads me to conclude that my
                      ancestors migrated here about that time from lands far off.
                      >
                      > 5. If you want to search on Urbarial census only, you'd need to
                      select "Urbariumok" from the dropdown, then use its customized search
                      screen. I've not done it. If you do, please post instructions for
                      everyone to benefit from. So, I can't help you with that one. Read
                      on.
                      >
                      > HOWEVER I think it's easier to just do a global search on all
                      records. This will reveal the urbarial records. The number of
                      hits for each village is fairly small, unless the village name is
                      common. Remember, a global search can contain multiple words,
                      separate by spaces. You can search on any words found in the
                      transcription. For example, "Zboj 1631" is a valid search.
                      >
                      >
                      > So, how do you find the Ubarial Census? Just use the global
                      search. Let me give you one example, that's all I have time to do
                      for now. We will search for my village, ZBOJ:
                      >
                      > 1. At http://www.arcanum.hu/mol/ enter "zboj" into the top left
                      search box, press "Mehet!"
                      > 2. You will see two entries in the right bottom panel.
                      > 3. First entry: Urbaria et Conscriptiones/REGESTRATA/UC 156/UC
                      156 : 1 Click on it. The top right panel will display a
                      TRANSCRIPTION of this census record. Scroll to the top of this top
                      right panel. (1631) is a 1631 Urbarial census and "(1755. március
                      11.)" is when the entry was re-written. Notice that the year is no
                      where in the clickable title. They used their own urbarial
                      cataloging system, which I do not have time to decode. You'll see
                      this entry is all in Latin. This is transcribed – which means that
                      someone read the handwritten original and typed it into the computer
                      database. Beware of typing/reading errors. Notes:
                      > a. There is no document/page image associated with this record.
                      ONLY the transcription is present.
                      > b. There are often multiple Urbarial records for each village.
                      Each one will have its own clickable entry.
                      > 4. Second entry: Az 1715. évi országos összeírás/Zemplén
                      � 12. TÉKA/Zboy . Notice it has its own high-level entry and
                      "1715" is prominent, unlike the other census. Click on it. You
                      will see a transcription
                      >
                      > Zboy, Harczos, Harcos, Zemplén, Zboj, SK
                      > Vásárhely: Homonna
                      > Adózók neve: Joannes Hubak; Joannes Dunascsák; Ignatius Chiruski;
                      Szrucha Pelecha; Michael Szúk; Mathias Labó; Paulus Klekulo; Mathias
                      Szopko; Hripics Szuk
                      > Oldalszám: 148, 149, 344,
                      >
                      > This is a listing of the village and it's name variations (Zboy,
                      Harczos, Harcos, Zemplén, Zboj), SK = Slovakia
                      >
                      > Vásárhely: Homonna = contained in the Humenne Estate
                      > Adózók neve: Joannes Hubak; Joannes Dunascsák; Ignatius Chiruski;
                      Szrucha Pelecha; Michael Szúk; Mathias Labó; Paulus Klekulo; Mathias
                      Szopko; Hripics Szuk = Property holder names. These have been
                      transcribed. Watchout for misspellings/transcriptions! Check
                      agains the original scanned pages (below)
                      > "Oldalszám: 148, 149, 344," are links to the actual census page
                      scanned images. In this case, there are three page images. Click on
                      each one, which opens a separate image window.
                      > Hope this helps,
                      > Bill
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > From: "Bohdana Badzio" <bbadzio@l...>
                      > > Date: 2005/03/01 Tue PM 02:19:45 EST
                      > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: [S-R] Re: 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer Available
                      Online
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Bill,
                      > >
                      > > In your instructions, I see the explanation of the 1715 Census.
                      > > However, your section on the 1623, 1631, and 1691 Urbarium census
                      > > talks about the 1715 Census too. I don't see any references to
                      those
                      > > early censuses on the Arcanum site either (not that I can
                      understand,
                      > > at least).
                      > >
                      > > Could you explain please?
                      > >
                      > > Thank you,
                      > >
                      > > Bohdana
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich"
                      > > <bill.tarkulich@i...> wrote:
                      > > > Great news! Several 17th and 18th Century Magyar Census
                      images
                      > > and/or
                      > > > transcriptions are now available online. Also online is the
                      > > important
                      > > > Dvsorszak Gazetteer. Admittedly, they are not of much
                      genealogical
                      > > value,
                      > > > but they are important insights into the development of the
                      area.
                      > > These
                      > > > census cover all of the "old Hungary", which means not only
                      present-
                      > > day
                      > > > Slovakia, but also Ukraine, Hungary, Romania, etc.
                      > > >
                      > > > Shown below are the highlights and links to web pages I have
                      > > developed to
                      > > > help initiate you on their usage.
                      > > >
                      > > > • Gazetteers
                      > > > • Dvorzsák Gazetteer - Based on the 1877 Census, scans of the
                      > > actual
                      > > > pages of this Ecclesiastical Gazetteer are now available online
                      at
                      > > no fee.
                      > > > Useful in determining where a villager of a particular faith
                      may
                      > > have
                      > > > attended church. An interesting compliment to Auslander's
                      newly-
                      > > published
                      > > > "Genealogical Gazetteer of the Kingdom of Hungary".
                      > > > • The 1715 Census is now available online at no fee via
                      Arcanum -
                      > > These are
                      > > > actual scans of all the individual pages and transcriptions of
                      the
                      > > original
                      > > > census document. The transcriptions are computer-searchable.
                      > > Thanks to
                      > > > Peter Nagy for the "heads up." This may be a limited time
                      offer!
                      > > > • 1623, 1631, 1691 Ubarial Census transcriptions are also
                      online
                      > > available
                      > > > at no fee via Arcanum. These are transcriptions ONLY. The
                      > > transcriptions
                      > > > are computer-searchable. This may be also be a limited time
                      offer!
                      > > >
                      > > > I would very much like to hear how they work for you. Happy
                      > > Hunting!
                      > > > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/index.htm#new
                      > > >
                      > > > ______________
                      > > > Bill Tarkulich
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
                      to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >






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                      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
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                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • James McGrath
                      Hi everyone! I did a search and found someone listed in the 1715 taxation records that looks likely to be an ancestor of mine. You can find the records in
                      Message 10 of 26 , Mar 1, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi everyone! I did a search and found someone listed
                        in the 1715 taxation records that looks likely to be
                        an ancestor of mine. You can find the records in
                        question by searching under Antolik. He comes up
                        (Marczin Antolik) in the listing for the village of
                        Kolbach, which is where my ancestors were from.

                        Even though my colleague in the next office is a
                        classicist, I still am having difficulty deciphering
                        the document, both because of handwriting and because
                        Lating from the 18th century is different from that of
                        ancient Rome.

                        So, can anyone help me figure out what it is that this
                        individual had 3 of, and what the 3 letters after his
                        name indicate? I am presuming it doesn't mean he was
                        an engineer! :)

                        Thanks for any help you can give me!

                        James



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                      • Carol
                        Thanks, Bill, for posting the site for the Hungarian Census, etc. I have been playing around for more than an hour and found both my paternal and maternal
                        Message 11 of 26 , Mar 1, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Thanks, Bill, for posting the site for the Hungarian Census, etc. I have
                          been playing around for more than an hour and found both my paternal and
                          maternal grandparents' surnames in the area where they lived, probably the
                          same village for that matter. I had genealogical research done on both of
                          these families and got back as far as the late 1700s. Don't know where I
                          will go next with what I've found. Maybe I will look for the other side of
                          their families. I love the old handwriting - kind of reminds me of colonial
                          American records I've researched. Anyway - grea fun.
                          Carol
                        • Jan Ammann
                          Hello Bill.......... I have to plead to not understanding where I can find the Dvsorszak Gazetteer. The way you talk about it below it appears on the
                          Message 12 of 26 , Mar 1, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hello Bill..........

                            I have to plead to "not understanding" where I can find the Dvsorszak Gazetteer. The way you talk about it below it appears on the arcanun site but I have not found it there. Where do you bring it up?? I have found the 1715 census but have yet to find any entries for the 1623, 1631, 1691 Ubarial census. One of my villages is Jobahaza but it is not there and I had hoped it would be.

                            Anyway, thanks for all your assistance.

                            Cheers, Jan


                            Also online is the
                            > > important
                            > > > Dvsorszak Gazetteer. Admittedly, they are not of much
                            genealogical value, but they are important insights into the development of the
                            area.
                            > > These
                            > > > census cover all of the "old Hungary", which means not only
                            present-
                            > > day
                            > > > Slovakia, but also Ukraine, Hungary, Romania, etc.
                            > > >
                            > > > Shown below are the highlights and links to web pages I have
                            > > developed to
                            > > > help initiate you on their usage.
                            > > >
                            > > > � Gazetteers
                            > > > � Dvorzs�k Gazetteer - Based on the 1877 Census, scans of the
                            > > actual
                            > > > pages of this Ecclesiastical Gazetteer are now available online
                            at
                            > > no fee.
                            > > > Useful in determining where a villager of a particular faith
                            may
                            > > have
                            > > > attended church. An interesting compliment to Auslander's
                            newly-
                            > > published
                            > > > "Genealogical Gazetteer of the Kingdom of Hungary".


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Bill Tarkulich
                            Dvsorszak Gazetteer is published by Pecs University, NOT by Arcanum. 1. Go here http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/dvorzsak_gazetteer.htm for my instructions on
                            Message 13 of 26 , Mar 2, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Dvsorszak Gazetteer is published by Pecs University, NOT by Arcanum.
                              1. Go here http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/dvorzsak_gazetteer.htm for my
                              instructions on its use.
                              2. Go here http://kt.lib.pte.hu/konyvtar/kt03110501/tartalom.html to access
                              the gazetteer pages.

                              3. You cannot "browse" for earlier census - the titles do not lend itself to
                              discovery the way the 1715 census does.
                              4. In a global search, you may not find your village entries for every
                              Urbarial census for three reasons that come quickly to mind: a) It's simply
                              not there, b) it wasn't enumerated separately (may have been part of another
                              location) or c) It's been misspelled or another spelling you are unaware of
                              was used. Remember, "correct name" is a relative term in genealogy.

                              In the case of village misspellings, it is likely it was transcribed in
                              error. My suggestion is to do a wildcard search. In the case of Try
                              "Jobah*", "Jobaha*", "Joba*", or if you are really desperate, try "Job*".
                              If that fails, search for adjacent villages and scour the results. Estate
                              records are grouped together, so nearby villages should show. If this
                              fails, try a larger nearby town.

                              I will be interested in hearing (via this group or privately) what you
                              discover. Good luck!

                              ______________
                              Bill Tarkulich




                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Jan Ammann [mailto:janammann@...]
                              Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 12:32 AM
                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: 1600-1700s Hung Census &Gazetteer Available Online



                              Hello Bill..........

                              I have to plead to "not understanding" where I can find the Dvsorszak
                              Gazetteer. The way you talk about it below it appears on the arcanun site
                              but I have not found it there. Where do you bring it up?? I have found the
                              1715 census but have yet to find any entries for the 1623, 1631, 1691
                              Ubarial census. One of my villages is Jobahaza but it is not there and I
                              had hoped it would be.

                              Anyway, thanks for all your assistance.

                              Cheers, Jan


                              Also online is the
                              > > important
                              > > > Dvsorszak Gazetteer. Admittedly, they are not of much
                              genealogical value, but they are important insights into the development of
                              the
                              area.
                              > > These
                              > > > census cover all of the "old Hungary", which means not only
                              present-
                              > > day
                              > > > Slovakia, but also Ukraine, Hungary, Romania, etc.
                              > > >
                              > > > Shown below are the highlights and links to web pages I have
                              > > developed to
                              > > > help initiate you on their usage.
                              > > >
                              > > > • Gazetteers
                              > > > • Dvorzsák Gazetteer - Based on the 1877 Census, scans of the
                              > > actual
                              > > > pages of this Ecclesiastical Gazetteer are now available online
                              at
                              > > no fee.
                              > > > Useful in determining where a villager of a particular faith
                              may
                              > > have
                              > > > attended church. An interesting compliment to Auslander's
                              newly-
                              > > published
                              > > > "Genealogical Gazetteer of the Kingdom of Hungary".


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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                            • Peter Nagy
                              James, Inq. is an acronym for inquilinus, the interpretation of this term depends on the context, but in principle it is a farmer, land tenant. Peter --
                              Message 14 of 26 , Mar 2, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                James,

                                Inq. is an acronym for inquilinus,

                                the interpretation of this term depends on the context, but in principle
                                it is a farmer, land tenant.

                                Peter

                                --
                                Cilistovska 20
                                931 01 Samorin
                                Slovak Republic

                                tel: +421 31 560 0641
                                mobile: +421 905 490 552
                                http://www.centroconsult.sk
                              • James McGrath
                                Thank you, Peter! Now that I ve found the term, there are a few sites online that help explain the social structure in general terms. Any suggestions on what
                                Message 15 of 26 , Mar 2, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Thank you, Peter! Now that I've found the term, there
                                  are a few sites online that help explain the social
                                  structure in general terms.

                                  Any suggestions on what the column with the '3' in it
                                  indicates would still be welcome...

                                  James

                                  --- Peter Nagy <nagy@...> wrote:

                                  >
                                  > James,
                                  >
                                  > Inq. is an acronym for inquilinus,
                                  >
                                  > the interpretation of this term depends on the
                                  > context, but in principle
                                  > it is a farmer, land tenant.
                                  >
                                  > Peter
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > Cilistovska 20
                                  > 931 01 Samorin
                                  > Slovak Republic
                                  >
                                  > tel: +421 31 560 0641
                                  > mobile: +421 905 490 552
                                  > http://www.centroconsult.sk
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  __________________________________________________
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                                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                                • Jan Ammann
                                  Hi Bill........ Before I even get started I have to say I got a good laugh out of your statement to me about searching for the village Jobahaza . You gave me
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Mar 2, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hi Bill........

                                    Before I even get started I have to say I got a good laugh out of your statement to me about searching for the village "Jobahaza". You gave me some examples and then you said, "if you are really desperate" ........well, I have to say that I thought everybody who searches in this part of Eastern Europe stays in "a desperate state".........at least, I do..........smile.........grin.

                                    You mentioned that if any of us decided to click on one of the specialized menus instead of a global search in the 1715 or other census we were to pass on our info. So here is mine!

                                    Well, I attempted one and so will share with the list. On the left side on the drop down menu of the opening page, I selected "on Az 1715-osszeiras". I went to a page with a large blank space on a green field. Here is how I have deciphered the fields/spaces.

                                    1. B�rhol az adatb�zisban = means "Anywhere in the database"
                                    2. Helys�g = means "place or locality"
                                    3. Lipszky-f�le helys�gn�v = means "_____ toward locality". I wasn't able to translate "Lipszky"
                                    4. 1913-as helys�gn�v = means "1913-as to place/locality"
                                    5. 1913-as megyebeoszt�s = means "1913 as county arrangement/apportionment"
                                    6. Mai hivatalos helys�gn�v = means "today's official place"
                                    7. V�s�rhely = means "market/fair place"
                                    8. Ad�z�k - means "impose taxes/rates"

                                    Kifejez�sek kapcsolata a mez�n bel�l: means and this is a guess of sorts: "Expression/word that have relation with the fields". I have to spoof myself here because at first I thought it meant meadows.......smile......but I believe it means "as fields in a computer space".

                                    a mez�k k�z�tt: means "fields inbetween"

                                    The three choices are: "es" which means "and" ~ "vagy" which means "or" ~ "nem" means "no/not".

                                    Now, if you click on the arrows which are placed at the end of each field, the right side of the screen has long........long.........long lists which are slow to go through. There is a long list of numbers in different digits.......then it starts with "a" and seems to be a variety of words....names of people...nouns....even some verbs. It is a cumbersome list. I have never made it through the entire list. Oh, and of course, all of this is at the website: www.arcanum.hu/mol.

                                    And the word at the end: "Kereses" means "Look"........

                                    I would definitely not call this a tutorial.........just a "naive guide" to what may be in this page. So hopefully, someone a lot smarter than me will take this to a higher level. Again, thanks to this list which is always friendly and helpful.

                                    Cheers,
                                    Jan






                                    Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
                                    Great news! Several 17th and 18th Century Magyar Census images and/or
                                    transcriptions are now available online.
                                    � The 1715 Census is now available online at no fee via Arcanum - These are
                                    actual scans of all the individual pages and transcriptions of the original
                                    census document. The transcriptions are computer-searchable. Thanks to
                                    Peter Nagy for the "heads up." This may be a limited time offer!
                                    � 1623, 1631, 1691 Ubarial Census transcriptions are also online available
                                    at no fee via Arcanum. These are transcriptions ONLY. The transcriptions
                                    are computer-searchable. This may be also be a limited time offer!

                                    I would very much like to hear how they work for you. Happy Hunting!
                                    http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/index.htm#new

                                    ______________
                                    Bill Tarkulich





                                    To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


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                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Peter Nagy
                                    Jan, I am fluent in Hungarian and I intend to draft a tutorial, but this week I am very busy. You and Bill Tarkulich have done a good start. Only few comments:
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Mar 3, 2005
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Jan,

                                      I am fluent in Hungarian and I intend to draft a tutorial, but this week
                                      I am very busy. You and Bill Tarkulich have done a good start. Only few
                                      comments:
                                      The Lipszky is a reference to Lipszky gazetteer.

                                      You wrote:

                                      >Now, if you click on the arrows which are placed at the end of each field, the right side of the screen has long........long.........long lists which are slow to go through. There is a long list of numbers in different digits.......then it starts with "a" and seems to be a variety of words....names of people...nouns....even some verbs. It is a cumbersome list. I have never made it through the entire list.
                                      >
                                      This list is very helpful, but its use is very tricky. Here is na example:
                                      You wish to search the name of the taxpayer, there is a field with name
                                      "Adózók". You have to click to the green arrow located right for the
                                      field. After some time (depending on the server workload and speed of
                                      your connection) a new list on the right page of the screen will be
                                      loaded "Az Adózók mezőben előforduló szavak" - here are shown all the
                                      surname variations included in the database. You have now to move the
                                      cursor to any item in this list. You can move through the list using
                                      navigation keys of your keyboard, but also you can do quick jumps to the
                                      desired letter by hitting the alphabetic keys. Pressing "t" you will
                                      jump to the surname "Taák". Pressing the second key "u" you will
                                      undertake next jump to "tuba". etc. After you have selected your
                                      surname, you have double click on the selected name and this will be
                                      pasted to the surname field. There is now way back, thus you must start
                                      new search pressing the green arrow button. The similar procedure is to
                                      be used for remaining fields.

                                      Let me please know, if it was understandable.

                                      Peter

                                      --
                                      Cilistovska 20
                                      931 01 Samorin
                                      Slovak Republic

                                      tel: +421 31 560 0641
                                      mobile: +421 905 490 552
                                      http://www.centroconsult.sk
                                    • Bill Tarkulich
                                      Thank you Jan! - If you don t mind, I ll post your remarks on the web page. We ll go back someday and edit it, after everyone s initial investigations settle
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Mar 3, 2005
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Thank you Jan! - If you don't mind, I'll post your remarks on the web page.
                                        We'll go back someday and edit it, after everyone's initial investigations
                                        settle down.


                                        ______________
                                        Bill Tarkulich




                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Jan Ammann [mailto:janammann@...]
                                        Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:10 PM
                                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [S-R] 1600-1700s Hung Census



                                        Hi Bill........

                                        Before I even get started I have to say I got a good laugh out of your
                                        statement to me about searching for the village "Jobahaza". You gave me
                                        some examples and then you said, "if you are really desperate" ........well,
                                        I have to say that I thought everybody who searches in this part of Eastern
                                        Europe stays in "a desperate state".........at least, I
                                        do..........smile.........grin.

                                        You mentioned that if any of us decided to click on one of the specialized
                                        menus instead of a global search in the 1715 or other census we were to pass
                                        on our info. So here is mine!

                                        Well, I attempted one and so will share with the list. On the left side on
                                        the drop down menu of the opening page, I selected "on Az 1715-osszeiras".
                                        I went to a page with a large blank space on a green field. Here is how I
                                        have deciphered the fields/spaces.

                                        1. Bárhol az adatbázisban = means "Anywhere in the database" 2. Helység =
                                        means "place or locality" 3. Lipszky-féle helységnév = means "_____ toward
                                        locality". I wasn't able to translate "Lipszky" 4. 1913-as helységnév =
                                        means "1913-as to place/locality" 5. 1913-as megyebeosztás = means "1913 as
                                        county arrangement/apportionment" 6. Mai hivatalos helységnév = means
                                        "today's official place" 7. Vásárhely = means "market/fair place" 8.
                                        Adózók - means "impose taxes/rates"

                                        Kifejezések kapcsolata a mezõn belül: means and this is a guess of sorts:
                                        "Expression/word that have relation with the fields". I have to spoof
                                        myself here because at first I thought it meant meadows.......smile......but
                                        I believe it means "as fields in a computer space".

                                        a mezõk között: means "fields inbetween"

                                        The three choices are: "es" which means "and" ~ "vagy" which means "or" ~
                                        "nem" means "no/not".

                                        Now, if you click on the arrows which are placed at the end of each field,
                                        the right side of the screen has long........long.........long lists which
                                        are slow to go through. There is a long list of numbers in different
                                        digits.......then it starts with "a" and seems to be a variety of
                                        words....names of people...nouns....even some verbs. It is a cumbersome
                                        list. I have never made it through the entire list. Oh, and of course, all
                                        of this is at the website: www.arcanum.hu/mol.

                                        And the word at the end: "Kereses" means "Look"........

                                        I would definitely not call this a tutorial.........just a "naive guide" to
                                        what may be in this page. So hopefully, someone a lot smarter than me will
                                        take this to a higher level. Again, thanks to this list which is always
                                        friendly and helpful.

                                        Cheers,
                                        Jan






                                        Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
                                        Great news! Several 17th and 18th Century Magyar Census images and/or
                                        transcriptions are now available online.
                                        • The 1715 Census is now available online at no fee via Arcanum - These are
                                        actual scans of all the individual pages and transcriptions of the original
                                        census document. The transcriptions are computer-searchable. Thanks to
                                        Peter Nagy for the "heads up." This may be a limited time offer! • 1623,
                                        1631, 1691 Ubarial Census transcriptions are also online available
                                        at no fee via Arcanum. These are transcriptions ONLY. The transcriptions
                                        are computer-searchable. This may be also be a limited time offer!

                                        I would very much like to hear how they work for you. Happy Hunting!
                                        http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/index.htm#new

                                        ______________
                                        Bill Tarkulich





                                        To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                        http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                                        SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


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                                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                        To unsubscribe from this group, go to
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                                      • Jan Ammann
                                        Hello Bill.... You are most welcome. It s just a little payback for all the help this list has given me. You are very brave to post this on your web page!
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Mar 3, 2005
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hello Bill....

                                          You are most welcome. It's just a little "payback" for all the help this list has given me. You are very brave to post this on your web page! I have done some work on the other specialized menus on arcanum and will post them if and when I finish them. It is always a struggle with Hungarian language.

                                          Cheers..............Jan



                                          Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
                                          Thank you Jan! - If you don't mind, I'll post your remarks on the web page.
                                          We'll go back someday and edit it, after everyone's initial investigations
                                          settle down.


                                          ______________
                                          Bill Tarkulich




                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: Jan Ammann [mailto:janammann@...]
                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:10 PM
                                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [S-R] 1600-1700s Hung Census



                                          Hi Bill........

                                          Before I even get started I have to say I got a good laugh out of your
                                          statement to me about searching for the village "Jobahaza". You gave me
                                          some examples and then you said, "if you are really desperate" ........well,
                                          I have to say that I thought everybody who searches in this part of Eastern
                                          Europe stays in "a desperate state".........at least, I
                                          do..........smile.........grin.

                                          You mentioned that if any of us decided to click on one of the specialized
                                          menus instead of a global search in the 1715 or other census we were to pass
                                          on our info. So here is mine!

                                          Well, I attempted one and so will share with the list. On the left side on
                                          the drop down menu of the opening page, I selected "on Az 1715-osszeiras".
                                          I went to a page with a large blank space on a green field. Here is how I
                                          have deciphered the fields/spaces.

                                          1. B�rhol az adatb�zisban = means "Anywhere in the database" 2. Helys�g =
                                          means "place or locality" 3. Lipszky-f�le helys�gn�v = means "_____ toward
                                          locality". I wasn't able to translate "Lipszky" 4. 1913-as helys�gn�v =
                                          means "1913-as to place/locality" 5. 1913-as megyebeoszt�s = means "1913 as
                                          county arrangement/apportionment" 6. Mai hivatalos helys�gn�v = means
                                          "today's official place" 7. V�s�rhely = means "market/fair place" 8.
                                          Ad�z�k - means "impose taxes/rates"

                                          Kifejez�sek kapcsolata a mez�n bel�l: means and this is a guess of sorts:
                                          "Expression/word that have relation with the fields". I have to spoof
                                          myself here because at first I thought it meant meadows.......smile......but
                                          I believe it means "as fields in a computer space".

                                          a mez�k k�z�tt: means "fields inbetween"

                                          The three choices are: "es" which means "and" ~ "vagy" which means "or" ~
                                          "nem" means "no/not".

                                          Now, if you click on the arrows which are placed at the end of each field,
                                          the right side of the screen has long........long.........long lists which
                                          are slow to go through. There is a long list of numbers in different
                                          digits.......then it starts with "a" and seems to be a variety of
                                          words....names of people...nouns....even some verbs. It is a cumbersome
                                          list. I have never made it through the entire list. Oh, and of course, all
                                          of this is at the website: www.arcanum.hu/mol.

                                          And the word at the end: "Kereses" means "Look"........

                                          I would definitely not call this a tutorial.........just a "naive guide" to
                                          what may be in this page. So hopefully, someone a lot smarter than me will
                                          take this to a higher level. Again, thanks to this list which is always
                                          friendly and helpful.

                                          Cheers,
                                          Jan






                                          Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
                                          Great news! Several 17th and 18th Century Magyar Census images and/or
                                          transcriptions are now available online.
                                          � The 1715 Census is now available online at no fee via Arcanum - These are
                                          actual scans of all the individual pages and transcriptions of the original
                                          census document. The transcriptions are computer-searchable. Thanks to
                                          Peter Nagy for the "heads up." This may be a limited time offer! � 1623,
                                          1631, 1691 Ubarial Census transcriptions are also online available
                                          at no fee via Arcanum. These are transcriptions ONLY. The transcriptions
                                          are computer-searchable. This may be also be a limited time offer!

                                          I would very much like to hear how they work for you. Happy Hunting!
                                          http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/index.htm#new

                                          ______________
                                          Bill Tarkulich





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                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Jan Ammann
                                          Hello Peter........Thanks for the Lipszky word. I thought it was a proper name but was not sure. And yes...........thank you very much........I do understand
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Mar 3, 2005
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                                            Hello Peter........Thanks for the Lipszky word. I thought it was a proper name but was not sure. And yes...........thank you very much........I do understand your instructions about the long, long, long list on the right side of the screen. Your instructions will help me "literally fly through it" and that is very helpful. It is too bad you do not live in Texas as I would probably lock you in a room and give you all the "Hungarian stuff" I have yet to try and translate!! And you would be happy as I am a good cook!!! Just kidding, of course!

                                            Thank you again for your very precise and understandable way to "navigate the long, long, long lists!" And I am sure we all look forward to your tutorial.

                                            Cheers, Jan


                                            Peter Nagy wrote...

                                            Jan,

                                            I am fluent in Hungarian and I intend to draft a tutorial, but this week
                                            I am very busy. You and Bill Tarkulich have done a good start. Only few
                                            comments:
                                            The Lipszky is a reference to Lipszky gazetteer.

                                            You wrote:

                                            >Now, if you click on the arrows which are placed at the end of each field, the right side of the screen has long........long.........long lists which are slow to go through. There is a long list of numbers in different digits.......then it starts with "a" and seems to be a variety of words....names of people...nouns....even some verbs. It is a cumbersome list. I have never made it through the entire list.
                                            >
                                            This list is very helpful, but its use is very tricky. Here is na example:
                                            You wish to search the name of the taxpayer, there is a field with name
                                            "Ad�z�k". You have to click to the green arrow located right for the
                                            field. After some time (depending on the server workload and speed of
                                            your connection) a new list on the right page of the screen will be
                                            loaded "Az Ad�z�k mez�ben el�fordul� szavak" - here are shown all the
                                            surname variations included in the database. You have now to move the
                                            cursor to any item in this list. You can move through the list using
                                            navigation keys of your keyboard, but also you can do quick jumps to the
                                            desired letter by hitting the alphabetic keys. Pressing "t" you will
                                            jump to the surname "Ta�k". Pressing the second key "u" you will
                                            undertake next jump to "tuba". etc. After you have selected your
                                            surname, you have double click on the selected name and this will be
                                            pasted to the surname field. There is now way back, thus you must start
                                            new search pressing the green arrow button. The similar procedure is to
                                            be used for remaining fields.

                                            Let me please know, if it was understandable.

                                            Peter

                                            --
                                            Cilistovska 20
                                            931 01 Samorin
                                            Slovak Republic

                                            tel: +421 31 560 0641
                                            mobile: +421 905 490 552
                                            http://www.centroconsult.sk





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                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Peter Nagy
                                            Dear Jan, Bill and others, I invite you to comment the draft of 1715 census guide. It is not yet linked to other centroconsult pages. The URL is:
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Mar 3, 2005
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                                              Dear Jan, Bill and others,

                                              I invite you to comment the draft of 1715 census guide. It is not yet
                                              linked to other centroconsult pages. The URL is:
                                              http://www.centroconsult.sk/genealogy/census.html

                                              Peter

                                              --
                                              Cilistovska 20
                                              931 01 Samorin
                                              Slovak Republic

                                              tel: +421 31 560 0641
                                              mobile: +421 905 490 552
                                              http://www.centroconsult.sk
                                            • Jan Ammann
                                              Hello Peter...... First of all, the page is very well constructed. The way you set up the area/space that needs to filled in with your family data is
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Mar 3, 2005
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                                                Hello Peter......

                                                First of all, the page is very well constructed. The way you set up the area/space that needs to filled in with your family data is excellent. By placing the English words alongside the Hungarian words you have created an "easy and almost fool-proof" method of finding your information. I consider this the "best part of the whole page".

                                                Then, by telling us how to navigate the long, long lists, you have helped us manage our time more effectively by not having to "needlessly search". You make it look very easy. And the instructions for jumping from alphabet to alphabet is excellent.

                                                And, of course, the examples are the "icing on the cake".........everyone should be able to now go through this section of Arcanum with speed and accuracy. And the showing of the villages where the Kozlia name occured just reinforces your method of presentation. You have done it all very effectively yet with simple and uncluttered language. (Aside to Janet.....any connection??)

                                                I feel very honored that my name is at the bottom of the page alongside Bill Tarkulich. And that you used my very rudimentary tutorial is itself very gratifying to me. You guys are the "pros".........Thank you for letting an amateur like myself in!!

                                                Cheers and many thanks!

                                                Jan


                                                Peter Nagy <nagy@...> wrote:
                                                Dear Jan, Bill and others,

                                                I invite you to comment the draft of 1715 census guide. It is not yet
                                                linked to other centroconsult pages. The URL is:
                                                http://www.centroconsult.sk/genealogy/census.html

                                                Peter

                                                --
                                                Cilistovska 20
                                                931 01 Samorin
                                                Slovak Republic

                                                tel: +421 31 560 0641
                                                mobile: +421 905 490 552
                                                http://www.centroconsult.sk




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                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • bbadzio@look.ca
                                                I wonder if anyone knows whether there are any plans (by Arcanum or others) to put the 1767-1773 Urbarium census on-line. Thank you, Bohdana
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Mar 6, 2005
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                                                  I wonder if anyone knows whether there are any plans (by Arcanum or
                                                  others) to put the 1767-1773 Urbarium census on-line.

                                                  Thank you,

                                                  Bohdana
                                                • Paula
                                                  I too have found 4 villages in Békés megye with possible family memebers. The easiest way I found was to do a surname search, with and without the umlauts.
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Mar 6, 2005
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                                                    I too have found 4 villages in Békés megye with possible family
                                                    memebers. The easiest way I found was to do a surname search, with
                                                    and without the umlauts. It will not only bring up the 1715 census
                                                    but the ubarial records down below. Not that I can read them. I did
                                                    print my info off and also the actual written pages so I have
                                                    something to go on later.

                                                    paula



                                                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <cnovotni@f...> wrote:
                                                    > Thanks, Bill, for posting the site for the Hungarian Census, etc.
                                                    I have
                                                    > been playing around for more than an hour and found both my
                                                    paternal and
                                                    > maternal grandparents' surnames in the area where they lived,
                                                    probably the
                                                    > same village for that matter. I had genealogical research done on
                                                    both of
                                                    > these families and got back as far as the late 1700s. Don't know
                                                    where I
                                                    > will go next with what I've found. Maybe I will look for the other
                                                    side of
                                                    > their families. I love the old handwriting - kind of reminds me of
                                                    colonial
                                                    > American records I've researched. Anyway - grea fun.
                                                    > Carol
                                                  • Bill Tarkulich
                                                    I see 1773 in there. Do a search on 1773 ______________ Bill Tarkulich ... From: bbadzio@look.ca [mailto:bbadzio@look.ca] Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 3:38
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Mar 6, 2005
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                                                      I see 1773 in there. Do a search on "1773"

                                                      ______________
                                                      Bill Tarkulich




                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                      From: bbadzio@... [mailto:bbadzio@...]
                                                      Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 3:38 AM
                                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: [S-R] 1773 Urbarium on-line?



                                                      I wonder if anyone knows whether there are any plans (by Arcanum or
                                                      others) to put the 1767-1773 Urbarium census on-line.

                                                      Thank you,

                                                      Bohdana



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                                                    • bbadzio@look.ca
                                                      Thank you, Bill, for your suggestion. I don t believe, however, that I see what I m looking for. Just to clarify what Urbarium I mean, it is the one that is
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Mar 6, 2005
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                                                        Thank you, Bill, for your suggestion.

                                                        I don't believe, however, that I see what I'm looking for. Just to clarify
                                                        what Urbarium I mean, it is the one that is found in FHL catalog:

                                                        *********************************
                                                        Title: Urbéri tabellák, 1767-1773
                                                        Authors: Magyarország. Helytartótanács (Main Author)

                                                        Notes: Az eredeti iratok mikrofilmre vétele Budapesten a Magyar Országos
                                                        Levéltárban történt.
                                                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                        Feudal land tenancy census records of Hungary, the so-called "Urbarium" or
                                                        "Urbéri tabellák", a document that defines the goods and services that a
                                                        serf was obligated to give to the feudal lord. Includes names of
                                                        landowners and serfs. Arranged by counties, and within the counties by
                                                        villages in alphabetical order. Includes primarily the years 1767-1773,
                                                        with some entries and the index covering the years 1723-1848. Some areas
                                                        that were in Hungary when these records were kept are now in Slovakia,
                                                        Romania and Ukraine
                                                        *************************

                                                        When I searched Arcanum for "1773", 142 hits came up. Part of the titles
                                                        looked similar to this:

                                                        **Urbaria et Conscriptiones/IRREGESTRATA/UC 4/UC 4 : 17**,

                                                        and the other part - to this:

                                                        **A középkori Magyarország levéltári forrásainak adatbázisa/U szekció:
                                                        DIPLOMATIKAI FÉNYKÉPGYÛJTEMÉNY/Magyarország/Vas Megyei Levéltár/DF
                                                        262095**

                                                        Just to make sure that this Urbarium was not "hidden" (meaning that it
                                                        could not be browsed, only searched), I searched the whole database for
                                                        the surnames I had just recorded from the microfilm copy of the Urbarium.
                                                        There were many I did not find.

                                                        Of course, none of what I just said proves that the Urbarium I'm looking
                                                        for is not on the Arcanum site, but I have my doubts that it is there...

                                                        Will be grateful for any further information.

                                                        Bohdana




                                                        >
                                                        > I see 1773 in there. Do a search on "1773"
                                                        >
                                                        > ______________
                                                        > Bill Tarkulich
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                        > From: bbadzio@... [mailto:bbadzio@...]
                                                        > Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 3:38 AM
                                                        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > Subject: [S-R] 1773 Urbarium on-line?
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > I wonder if anyone knows whether there are any plans (by Arcanum or
                                                        > others) to put the 1767-1773 Urbarium census on-line.
                                                        >
                                                        > Thank you,
                                                        >
                                                        > Bohdana
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