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[S-R] Re: a town

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  • Frank
    ... geaographical area right west of Belgrade. ... area, more West. ... Fruska gora mountain between those two rivers. At the same distance from Belgrade, a
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 5, 2004
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      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Vladimir Bohinc" <konekta@n...>
      wrote:
      > Sremska Mitrovica is located right in the middle of Srem, which is a
      geaographical area right west of Belgrade.
      > It never was located in Slavonia, which is another geagraphical
      area, more West.
      > It is located on Sava river, but not on Danube river. There is
      Fruska gora mountain between those two rivers. At the same distance
      from Belgrade, a capital of Vojvodina, Novi Sad , is located on
      Danube.
      > Right next to Sremska Mitrovica, on the left side, is a small town
      of Lacarak.
      > This is Serbia now.
      > Vladimir

      Dear Vladimir,
      mea culpa

      prepác^te (Sk)
      tut mir leid (G)
      z^ao mi je (Cr)
      z^al mi je (Sl)

      I should have written
      DONAUSCHWABEN TOWN NAMES LOCATED IN SYRMIA

      i.e., Syrmisch-Mitrowitz, Mitrowitz/Sremska' Mitrovica, Mitrowica,
      Mitrovicza/Hrvatska Mitrovica

      History of the Region

      " In Antiquity the municipality of Sirmium (today Syrmisch-Mitrowitz)
      was the capital of the Roman province of Lower Pannonia.
      This name was later to be applied to the entire surrounding region.
      It was first settled by Germans during the Carolingian period
      and again later under the first kings of Hungary, the Arpads.
      The mountain range known as the Frankengebirge (or Fruska Gora)
      recalls the Frankish title to this territory.

      An Eastern Orthodox Metropolitan had his seat at Sremski Karlovci.
      After 1557, the Serbian Patriarch at Pec (Ipek) had jurisdiction
      over this.

      After 1526, the region fell to the Ottoman Empire, many of
      the previous inhabitants fleeing before them.

      With the conquests by the Habsburg Empire under Emperor Leopold I,
      the Turks were expelled in 1687. A peace treaty signed at Sremski
      Karlovci (Karlowitz) in 1699 confirmed this.
      The rest of Syrmia, the southeast portion, was added at the Peace of
      Pozarevac (Passarowitz) in 1718. As the region was now significantly
      depopulated, the Habsburg authorities encouraged emigration from
      other parts of their Empire; thus did Syrmia become part of the
      Danube-Swabian migration with the first German settlers going to
      Semlin.

      Emperor Leopold I first rewarded the Italian Odescalchi with Syrmia;
      later it came to the Albani. Following the peace treaty of
      Belgrade in 1739, German craftsmen and merchants settled in
      Peterwardein (Schwabendörfel, Mayerhof), Karlowitz (Deutsche Gasse),
      Mitrowitz and Vukovar. In 1745 the district of Syrmia
      was established with capital at Wukowar; its first governor was Baron
      Pejacevic (Pejatschewitsch) who in 1746 settled the first Germans on
      his property at Ruma. In the same year 10 to 30 kilometer-wide
      strips of formerly military territory along southern Syrmia were
      integrated into its territory.
      Previously this area had been directly administered by the Court
      Chamber (Hofkammer) in Vienna. The remainder belonged to
      various local nobles. In 1777, Friedrich Wilhelm (von) Taube, servant
      to the Court Chamber, secretly reported on Syrmia to
      the effect that due to the Turkish wars the land had become a
      wilderness and that the first immigrants had fallen victim to
      epidemics.

      Some founding dates (according to: Günter Schödl, Land an der
      Donau):
      1770: Stara Pasova (founded for Protestant Slovaks)
      1783: Neu-Slankamen (in the Military Border region, founded by
      Germans among others)
      1787: suburb of Semlin (like Neu-Slankamen)
      1790: about 600 Protestant families from southwest Germany, via Ulm,
      went to Peterwardein 1790-1820: re-establishment of German communities
      in the Military Border region; the first was:
      1791: Neu-Pasua (founded by 62 of the 600 families who had left from
      Ulm in 1790); Neu Banovci saw the arrival of more Germans and was
      almost fully German as of 1870.
      post 1800: The daughter settlement of Sotin whose inhabitants came
      from Neudorf, just across the Danube.
      1817: Neudorf by Vinkovci (founded for Protestant Germans)
      In the course of the 19th century -- in particular in the years 1820
      to 1850 -- settlements, particularly Opatovac, Lowas,Jarmina, Berak,
      Tompojevci, Tovarnik, Ilaca, Svinjarevci, Babska Nova and Orolik were
      strengthened by the influx of or establishments from daughter
      settlements in the Batschka. While this last group of settlements was
      all Roman Catholic, 1859
      saw the start of another influx of Evangelical Lutheran settlers, this
      time into Sidski Banovci, Neu-Jankowzi, Beschka, Bingula,
      Krcedin and others.

      1867 saw the division of the the Austro-Hungarian Dual Monarchy into a
      western, Austrian and an eastern, Hungarian half, the latter of which
      included Syrmia. The aftermath saw a strong magyarization effort.

      Syrmia remained in the Austrian Empire and then the Kingdom of Hungary
      component of Austro-Hungarian Empire until the end of the First World
      War. At this time most of Syrmia apart from the extreme eastern
      portion joined the new nation of Yugoslavia as part of the Treaty of
      Trianon (June 4, 1920) to become part of the Vojvodina autonomous
      region of the Serbian Republic.
      Administratively, it was part of the larger eastern section
      called Danube Banschaft, with a smaller western section
      belonging to the Save Banschaft. There was a strong slavicization
      effort, with which the Donauschwaben in Syrmia accommodated themselves
      well.

      Even though the region was not absorbed back into Hungary during
      the years 1941-44 as other neighboring regions were Syrmia was not
      spared the cruel fate that most Donauschwaben regions experienced
      during and following the Second World War. Following it, Syrmia was
      again part of the Vojvodina within the Serbian part of the Yugoslavian
      Republic. "

      Frank K







      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Frank
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 11:55 PM
      > Subject: [S-R] Re: a town
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jeanann Jameson
      > <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
      > > hi ron, thanks for getting back to me. i was hoping it
      > > meant a town. the only town my mother remembers my
      > > grandmother speaking is and excuse the spelling
      > > Lacarac and Mitcovit and i believe bill once told me
      > > those towns were what is now near belgrade. my
      > > grandparents spoke german, hungarian, polish, and
      > > slovick they were catholic so i'm still in the dark
      > > about everything. but thanks for getting back to me.
      > > maybe back then it was all called austria. thanks
      > > again jean
      >
      > Jean
      > hi
      > tag (G)
      > czesc (P)
      > ahoj (Sk)
      > zdravo (Cr)
      >
      > Sremská Mitrovica (Croatian)
      > Mitróvicza (Hungarian)
      > Mitrowitz (German)
      > Sirmium (Latin)
      >
      > Sremská Mitrovica was a stop located on the Danube and Sava rivers
      on
      > the mission of brothers Cyril and Methodius to convert Greater
      > Moravia to Christianity in 863 AD.
      > Supposedly the Slovaks, Czechs, and Carpatho-Rusyns were already
      > established in Greater Moravia.
      >
      > Sremská Mitrovica is located in Serbia today, but it was located
      in
      > Slavonia before WW I in Szerém megye (county), Hungary.
      > Syrmia (E)
      > Srem (Cr)
      > Syrmien (G)
      >
      > Was your GM's husband a Andreas Rak ?
      > What about a Andrea Rak, age 28, Hungarian-Croatian, married, who
      had
      > emigrated in 1906 via port of Trieste to his brother-in-law in
      > Steelton,PA.
      > Andrea's Last Residence was Lacarak, i.e., Lac'arak (Srbija)
      >
      > Andrew (E)
      > Andreas (G) (L)
      > András (H)
      > Andrea (I)
      > Andreja (Cr)
      >
      > Steelton PA
      > When the steel mill was erected, the stretch of land was named
      Steel
      > City; that name eventually evolved into the proper title,
      Steelton.:
      > "tons of steel."
      > Before the works were built in 1866, the undeveloped land housed
      only
      > six families.
      > In the heyday of the steel industry, it was had over 16,000
      residents,
      > representing 33 different ethnic groups. With increasing
      > deindustrialization and the closing down of many of the steel
      mill 's
      > operations, the population declined to 5,162 people.
      >
      > v
      > Frank Kurcina
      >
      >
      > > --- amiak27 <rmat@p...> wrote:
      > >
      > > >
      > > > Jean,
      > > >
      > > > I am sorry to be the one to disappoint you, but my
      > > > immediate guess is
      > > > that "Estrarich" is really "Österreich", which is
      > > > what the Austrians
      > > > call their own country, Austria. This can also be
      > > > spelled "Oesterreich".
      > > >
      > > > So you have not narrowed it down to a village, but
      > > > just the country.
      > > > This can still include Austria, or Austrian Galicia
      > > > which is now part
      > > > of Poland & Ukraine. By some careless uses it can
      > > > also be meant to
      > > > include Hungary or Slovakia.
      > > >
      > > > To make sure, look up Jewish gen on the web and try
      > > > their
      > > > stettleseeker, which works phonetically.
      > > >
      > > > Good luck. Do you have any other hints, or even
      > > > words that might
      > > > give us a hint as to which dialect they spoke?
      > > >
      > > > Ron
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "jjeanann2000"
      > > > <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hi i just found out that my grandmother may have
      > > > come from a town
      > > > or
      > > > > village by a name that sounds like Estrarich in
      > > > Austria. Any help
      > > > > would be great. thanks Jean
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > __________________________________
      > > Do you Yahoo!?
      > > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
      > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
      to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      > ADVERTISEMENT
      >
      >
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      >
      >
      >
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      >
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      >
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      Service.
      >
      >
      >
      > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.935 (20041126) __________
      >
      > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
      > http://www.eset.sk
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Vladimir Bohinc
      Dear Frank, Nista, nista. Sve je u redu.:-) Vladimir ... From: Frank To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:58 PM Subject: [S-R]
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 5, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Frank,
        Nista, nista. Sve je u redu.:-)
        Vladimir

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Frank
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:58 PM
        Subject: [S-R] Re: a town



        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Vladimir Bohinc" <konekta@n...>
        wrote:
        > Sremska Mitrovica is located right in the middle of Srem, which is a
        geaographical area right west of Belgrade.
        > It never was located in Slavonia, which is another geagraphical
        area, more West.
        > It is located on Sava river, but not on Danube river. There is
        Fruska gora mountain between those two rivers. At the same distance
        from Belgrade, a capital of Vojvodina, Novi Sad , is located on
        Danube.
        > Right next to Sremska Mitrovica, on the left side, is a small town
        of Lacarak.
        > This is Serbia now.
        > Vladimir

        Dear Vladimir,
        mea culpa

        prepác^te (Sk)
        tut mir leid (G)
        z^ao mi je (Cr)
        z^al mi je (Sl)

        I should have written
        DONAUSCHWABEN TOWN NAMES LOCATED IN SYRMIA

        i.e., Syrmisch-Mitrowitz, Mitrowitz/Sremska' Mitrovica, Mitrowica,
        Mitrovicza/Hrvatska Mitrovica

        History of the Region

        " In Antiquity the municipality of Sirmium (today Syrmisch-Mitrowitz)
        was the capital of the Roman province of Lower Pannonia.
        This name was later to be applied to the entire surrounding region.
        It was first settled by Germans during the Carolingian period
        and again later under the first kings of Hungary, the Arpads.
        The mountain range known as the Frankengebirge (or Fruska Gora)
        recalls the Frankish title to this territory.

        An Eastern Orthodox Metropolitan had his seat at Sremski Karlovci.
        After 1557, the Serbian Patriarch at Pec (Ipek) had jurisdiction
        over this.

        After 1526, the region fell to the Ottoman Empire, many of
        the previous inhabitants fleeing before them.

        With the conquests by the Habsburg Empire under Emperor Leopold I,
        the Turks were expelled in 1687. A peace treaty signed at Sremski
        Karlovci (Karlowitz) in 1699 confirmed this.
        The rest of Syrmia, the southeast portion, was added at the Peace of
        Pozarevac (Passarowitz) in 1718. As the region was now significantly
        depopulated, the Habsburg authorities encouraged emigration from
        other parts of their Empire; thus did Syrmia become part of the
        Danube-Swabian migration with the first German settlers going to
        Semlin.

        Emperor Leopold I first rewarded the Italian Odescalchi with Syrmia;
        later it came to the Albani. Following the peace treaty of
        Belgrade in 1739, German craftsmen and merchants settled in
        Peterwardein (Schwabendörfel, Mayerhof), Karlowitz (Deutsche Gasse),
        Mitrowitz and Vukovar. In 1745 the district of Syrmia
        was established with capital at Wukowar; its first governor was Baron
        Pejacevic (Pejatschewitsch) who in 1746 settled the first Germans on
        his property at Ruma. In the same year 10 to 30 kilometer-wide
        strips of formerly military territory along southern Syrmia were
        integrated into its territory.
        Previously this area had been directly administered by the Court
        Chamber (Hofkammer) in Vienna. The remainder belonged to
        various local nobles. In 1777, Friedrich Wilhelm (von) Taube, servant
        to the Court Chamber, secretly reported on Syrmia to
        the effect that due to the Turkish wars the land had become a
        wilderness and that the first immigrants had fallen victim to
        epidemics.

        Some founding dates (according to: Günter Schödl, Land an der
        Donau):
        1770: Stara Pasova (founded for Protestant Slovaks)
        1783: Neu-Slankamen (in the Military Border region, founded by
        Germans among others)
        1787: suburb of Semlin (like Neu-Slankamen)
        1790: about 600 Protestant families from southwest Germany, via Ulm,
        went to Peterwardein 1790-1820: re-establishment of German communities
        in the Military Border region; the first was:
        1791: Neu-Pasua (founded by 62 of the 600 families who had left from
        Ulm in 1790); Neu Banovci saw the arrival of more Germans and was
        almost fully German as of 1870.
        post 1800: The daughter settlement of Sotin whose inhabitants came
        from Neudorf, just across the Danube.
        1817: Neudorf by Vinkovci (founded for Protestant Germans)
        In the course of the 19th century -- in particular in the years 1820
        to 1850 -- settlements, particularly Opatovac, Lowas,Jarmina, Berak,
        Tompojevci, Tovarnik, Ilaca, Svinjarevci, Babska Nova and Orolik were
        strengthened by the influx of or establishments from daughter
        settlements in the Batschka. While this last group of settlements was
        all Roman Catholic, 1859
        saw the start of another influx of Evangelical Lutheran settlers, this
        time into Sidski Banovci, Neu-Jankowzi, Beschka, Bingula,
        Krcedin and others.

        1867 saw the division of the the Austro-Hungarian Dual Monarchy into a
        western, Austrian and an eastern, Hungarian half, the latter of which
        included Syrmia. The aftermath saw a strong magyarization effort.

        Syrmia remained in the Austrian Empire and then the Kingdom of Hungary
        component of Austro-Hungarian Empire until the end of the First World
        War. At this time most of Syrmia apart from the extreme eastern
        portion joined the new nation of Yugoslavia as part of the Treaty of
        Trianon (June 4, 1920) to become part of the Vojvodina autonomous
        region of the Serbian Republic.
        Administratively, it was part of the larger eastern section
        called Danube Banschaft, with a smaller western section
        belonging to the Save Banschaft. There was a strong slavicization
        effort, with which the Donauschwaben in Syrmia accommodated themselves
        well.

        Even though the region was not absorbed back into Hungary during
        the years 1941-44 as other neighboring regions were Syrmia was not
        spared the cruel fate that most Donauschwaben regions experienced
        during and following the Second World War. Following it, Syrmia was
        again part of the Vojvodina within the Serbian part of the Yugoslavian
        Republic. "

        Frank K







        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Frank
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 11:55 PM
        > Subject: [S-R] Re: a town
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jeanann Jameson
        > <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
        > > hi ron, thanks for getting back to me. i was hoping it
        > > meant a town. the only town my mother remembers my
        > > grandmother speaking is and excuse the spelling
        > > Lacarac and Mitcovit and i believe bill once told me
        > > those towns were what is now near belgrade. my
        > > grandparents spoke german, hungarian, polish, and
        > > slovick they were catholic so i'm still in the dark
        > > about everything. but thanks for getting back to me.
        > > maybe back then it was all called austria. thanks
        > > again jean
        >
        > Jean
        > hi
        > tag (G)
        > czesc (P)
        > ahoj (Sk)
        > zdravo (Cr)
        >
        > Sremská Mitrovica (Croatian)
        > Mitróvicza (Hungarian)
        > Mitrowitz (German)
        > Sirmium (Latin)
        >
        > Sremská Mitrovica was a stop located on the Danube and Sava rivers
        on
        > the mission of brothers Cyril and Methodius to convert Greater
        > Moravia to Christianity in 863 AD.
        > Supposedly the Slovaks, Czechs, and Carpatho-Rusyns were already
        > established in Greater Moravia.
        >
        > Sremská Mitrovica is located in Serbia today, but it was located
        in
        > Slavonia before WW I in Szerém megye (county), Hungary.
        > Syrmia (E)
        > Srem (Cr)
        > Syrmien (G)
        >
        > Was your GM's husband a Andreas Rak ?
        > What about a Andrea Rak, age 28, Hungarian-Croatian, married, who
        had
        > emigrated in 1906 via port of Trieste to his brother-in-law in
        > Steelton,PA.
        > Andrea's Last Residence was Lacarak, i.e., Lac'arak (Srbija)
        >
        > Andrew (E)
        > Andreas (G) (L)
        > András (H)
        > Andrea (I)
        > Andreja (Cr)
        >
        > Steelton PA
        > When the steel mill was erected, the stretch of land was named
        Steel
        > City; that name eventually evolved into the proper title,
        Steelton.:
        > "tons of steel."
        > Before the works were built in 1866, the undeveloped land housed
        only
        > six families.
        > In the heyday of the steel industry, it was had over 16,000
        residents,
        > representing 33 different ethnic groups. With increasing
        > deindustrialization and the closing down of many of the steel
        mill 's
        > operations, the population declined to 5,162 people.
        >
        > v
        > Frank Kurcina
        >
        >
        > > --- amiak27 <rmat@p...> wrote:
        > >
        > > >
        > > > Jean,
        > > >
        > > > I am sorry to be the one to disappoint you, but my
        > > > immediate guess is
        > > > that "Estrarich" is really "Österreich", which is
        > > > what the Austrians
        > > > call their own country, Austria. This can also be
        > > > spelled "Oesterreich".
        > > >
        > > > So you have not narrowed it down to a village, but
        > > > just the country.
        > > > This can still include Austria, or Austrian Galicia
        > > > which is now part
        > > > of Poland & Ukraine. By some careless uses it can
        > > > also be meant to
        > > > include Hungary or Slovakia.
        > > >
        > > > To make sure, look up Jewish gen on the web and try
        > > > their
        > > > stettleseeker, which works phonetically.
        > > >
        > > > Good luck. Do you have any other hints, or even
        > > > words that might
        > > > give us a hint as to which dialect they spoke?
        > > >
        > > > Ron
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "jjeanann2000"
        > > > <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Hi i just found out that my grandmother may have
        > > > come from a town
        > > > or
        > > > > village by a name that sounds like Estrarich in
        > > > Austria. Any help
        > > > > would be great. thanks Jean
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > __________________________________
        > > Do you Yahoo!?
        > > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
        > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
        to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > ADVERTISEMENT
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        >
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        >
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        >
        > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        Service.
        >
        >
        >
        > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.935 (20041126) __________
        >
        > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
        > http://www.eset.sk
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • krisstrot@aol.com
        In a message dated 12/5/2004 7:59:52 AM Central Standard Time, ... portion joined the new nation of Yugoslavia as part of the Treaty of Trianon (June 4, 1920)
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 5, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          In a message dated 12/5/2004 7:59:52 AM Central Standard Time,
          frankur@... writes:

          >>At this time most of Syrmia apart from the extreme eastern
          portion joined the new nation of Yugoslavia as part of the Treaty of
          Trianon (June 4, 1920) to become part of the Vojvodina autonomous
          region of the Serbian Republic. <<

          Hi, Frank ... Interesting that you mention Vojvodina and Donauschwaben towns.
          I hadn't thought to mention this part of my family history here (instead,
          concentrating on my Grandfather's family in the Szepes area), but I guess my
          Grandmother also qualifies for Slovak-Roots. My Grandmother (born Christina
          Scharf) was also a German, who lived in a German town, who spoke German and
          considered herself a German, but who happened to be a citizen of Hungary because she
          lived in the Vojvodina area of what is now the Serbian Republic. Her town
          was Crvenka (aka Cservenka or Tscherwenka) and she was a Donauschwaben. I have
          had little luck finding birth, marriage and death records from this town, and
          have come to understand they were lost after WWII. What information I have
          been able to find (Angela Hefner at
          http://www.genealogienetz.de/vereine/AKdFF/CDROM-e.htm) hasn't helped much (except to show her father's original ancestral
          connection to the village at its founding in 1785). I wonder if there are
          civil records available, and if this area is part of the 1869 Hungarian census.
          Anyone know?
          Kris


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Frank
          ... Donauschwaben towns. ... (instead, ... guess my ... Christina ... German and ... Hungary because she ... Her town ... Donauschwaben. I have ... town, and
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 7, 2004
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            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, krisstrot@a... wrote:
            > In a message dated 12/5/2004 7:59:52 AM Central Standard Time,
            > frankur@w... writes:
            >
            > >>At this time most of Syrmia apart from the extreme eastern
            > portion joined the new nation of Yugoslavia as part of the Treaty of
            > Trianon (June 4, 1920) to become part of the Vojvodina autonomous
            > region of the Serbian Republic. <<
            >
            > Hi, Frank ... Interesting that you mention Vojvodina and
            Donauschwaben towns.
            > I hadn't thought to mention this part of my family history here
            (instead,
            > concentrating on my Grandfather's family in the Szepes area), but I
            guess my
            > Grandmother also qualifies for Slovak-Roots. My Grandmother (born
            Christina
            > Scharf) was also a German, who lived in a German town, who spoke
            German and
            > considered herself a German, but who happened to be a citizen of
            Hungary because she
            > lived in the Vojvodina area of what is now the Serbian Republic.
            Her town
            > was Crvenka (aka Cservenka or Tscherwenka) and she was a
            Donauschwaben. I have
            > had little luck finding birth, marriage and death records from this
            town, and
            > have come to understand they were lost after WWII. What information
            I have
            > been able to find (Angela Hefner at
            > http://www.genealogienetz.de/vereine/AKdFF/CDROM-e.htm) hasn't
            helped much (except to show her father's original ancestral
            > connection to the village at its founding in 1785). I wonder if
            there are
            > civil records available, and if this area is part of the 1869
            Hungarian census.
            > Anyone know?
            > Kris

            Kris

            Only one census, Cservenka in 1828.

            All that exists of former Yugoslavia now is Serbia and Montenegro -
            a single republic.

            The six republics that had formed the former Yugoslavia were : Bosnia
            and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Slovenia, and Serbia.
            Wars were fought in 1990s and Croatia, Slovenia, and Bosnia became
            independent.


            Cservenka

            Village Names:

            German: Tscherwenka, Rotweil
            Official: Crvenka
            Hungarian: Cservenka
            Spelling and/or dialect variants: Cervenka, Rot

            Location:

            Country: Yugoslavia
            near Kula (four Kulas
            in Serbia ?)


            Population:

            1921: 8,851 (6,850)
            1910: 7,674 (6,861)
            1880: 7,025 (6,268)

            Genealogical Records:

            Village name in FHL records:
            Church records available at FHL:
            FHL Microfilm Nr.:
            FHL Census Microfilm: Cservenka in 1828: # 622964

            Miscellaneous:

            Bibliography (only in German)
            Earliest Appearance in History: 1543
            Earliest German Settlement: 1784
            Churches: Evangelical Lutheran/Banya diocese, Reformed/Dunamellek
            diocese
            District: 8 - Kula
            Some settlers of this town continued migration eastward to Russia
            as documented in Karl Stumpp's The Emigration from Germany to
            Russia (AHSGR)
            History of Cservenka (in Serbian)

            http://solair.eunet.yu/%7Emarjanj/crvenka.html


            Frank K
          • Jeanann Jameson
            hi noreen sorry this took so long to answer you but my computer has been broke. i have no clues about the villages my grandparents lived in other than they
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 24, 2004
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              hi noreen sorry this took so long to answer you but my
              computer has been broke. i have no clues about the
              villages my grandparents lived in other than they
              talked about lacarak and mitchovich i'm thinking they
              lived at one time in both villages. their parents were
              farmers and there farms were right next to each other.
              here in the u.s. when friends or relatives would come
              over the adults would speek slovak so the kids
              couldn't understand what they were speaking about but
              normally they spoke german. my grandfather spoke seven
              languages and my grandmother spoke 4. being on a farm
              i have no idea why. well thanks for your help and have
              a nice holiday. jean
              --- nhasior@... wrote:

              > Hi Jean,
              > my grandmother also spoke German, Polish, Slovak and
              > Polish. She came from
              > what was then the Austrio-Hungarian Empire. Today,
              > her particular village was
              > in the Eastern part of Slovakia near the town of
              > Poprad. it is a spa and
              > mineral water healing area of Slovakia and the
              > reason that so many languages were
              > learned is that many of the townspeople worked at
              > the spas. many people of
              > foreign countries such as Germany, would come and
              > stay for spa treatments for
              > ailments.
              > what else do you know about the place? Belgrade is
              > very far away, but maybe
              > this will help give you another clue as to why all
              > the languages.
              > Noreen
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >




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            • johnqadam
              Lacarak is 47.1 miles WNW of Belgrade and Sremska Mitrovica is the adjacent village. To locate places in Europe, especially if you are not sure of the proper
              Message 6 of 18 , Dec 24, 2004
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                Lacarak is 47.1 miles WNW of Belgrade and Sremska Mitrovica is the
                adjacent village.

                To locate places in Europe, especially if you are not sure of the
                proper spelling of the place name, the best reference is found at
                http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm

                ShtelSeeker will take you there via Mapquest.
              • Frank
                ... 24 Dec 2003 jean wrote ... 2 Aug 2003 ... 9 Nov 2003 ... Over 51 million people lived in the former Austro-Hungarian Empire. The two largest ethnic groups
                Message 7 of 18 , Dec 25, 2004
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                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jeanann Jameson
                  <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
                  > hi noreen sorry this took so long to answer you but my
                  > computer has been broke. i have no clues about the
                  > villages my grandparents lived in other than they
                  > talked about lacarak and mitchovich i'm thinking they
                  > lived at one time in both villages. their parents were
                  > farmers and there farms were right next to each other.
                  > here in the u.s. when friends or relatives would come
                  > over the adults would speek slovak so the kids
                  > couldn't understand what they were speaking about but
                  > normally they spoke german. my grandfather spoke seven
                  > languages and my grandmother spoke 4. being on a farm
                  > i have no idea why. well thanks for your help and have
                  > a nice holiday. jean

                  24 Dec 2003

                  jean wrote

                  > I have no clues about the villages my grandparents lived other than
                  > they talked about Lacark and Mitchovich

                  > the adults would speak Slovak so the kids couldn't understand what
                  > they were speaking about but normally they spoke German.

                  > my grandfather spoke seven languages and my grandmother spoke 4


                  2 Aug 2003

                  > my grandfather was Andres Rak. I have been told they are from
                  > Austria, Czech, Poland, Yugoslavia at this point don't know
                  > some of towns my mother has mentioned are lacark, mikitovich,
                  > macvenska, and hesse

                  > My older brother says my grandfather Andras Rak is from Lacarak,
                  > Hungary and my grandmother is from Mitrovica Austria and they were
                  > only a few miles apart

                  9 Nov 2003

                  > my great grandmother was Froni (Veronica) Stranc married Stefan
                  > Yellenburger
                  > no dates or information on either of them
                  > her children were names Annie and Magdalena. Magdalena is my
                  > grandmother who was born in 1884.
                  > My grandmother has mentioned before she died the Danube River,
                  > Sabe River, Lakarak, and a town that had two names in it something
                  > like Mitovicha-Manscha


                  Over 51 million people lived in the former Austro-Hungarian Empire.
                  The two largest ethnic groups were Germans (10 million) and Hungarians
                  (9 million). There were also Poles, Croats, Bosnians,
                  Serbians,Italians,
                  Czechs, Ruthenes, Slovenes, Slovaks and Romanians.
                  Overall, fifteen different languages were spoken in the former
                  Austro-Hungarian Empire.

                  Lacarak is located 47 miles NNW of Belgrade (Beograd) Serbia and
                  Sremska Mitrovica is an adjacent village.
                  Macvanska Mitrovica is located 45 miles NNW of Belgrade.
                  The Sava River is located close by.

                  Hesse is a region (province) located in SW Germany.
                  During WW II American troops "liberated" Hesse from the Germans.

                  Many if not all Donauschwaben (Danube Germans) had barged down
                  the Donau (Danube) River during the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries.
                  These migrants often set out from the cities of Ulm or Günzburg,
                  Schwaben (Swabia), Germany, along the Danube River or on it via
                  the famous "Ulmer Schachtel" (Ulm Crates or barges), hence the name,
                  Donauschwaben.
                  Some migrated from modern Baden-Württemberg, Alsace, and Lorraine.
                  Others hailed from Austria and other places in the Austro-Hungarian
                  Empire. Hence germane (pertinent to the former AHE)

                  According to the Treaty of Trianon (June 4, 1920), Hungary lost
                  two-thirds of its former territory to Czechoslovakia (Slovakia,
                  Carpathian Rus'), Romania (Transylvania, * Banat), Yugoslavia
                  (Croatia, Slavonia, Syrmia, Bac^ka, western Banat), and Austria
                  (Burgenland)
                  Germans (Donauschwaben) lived in the Area of Syrmien County the
                  Batschka and the Banat. (Also Hungary)
                  Szerém (H) Syrmia (E) Syrmien (G) Srem (Cr)

                  The six republics that formed the former Yugoslavia were :
                  Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Slovenia,
                  and Serbia.

                  In 1945 the Communist Yugoslavs had expelled all the Donauschwaben
                  from the country.
                  Following the breakup of the former Federal Republic of Yugoslavia in
                  1991, Slovenija became a separate republic as did Croatia
                  (Croatia-Slavonia)
                  A war was fought in former Yugoslavia in 1990s between Croatian and
                  Serbian forces.
                  NATO and US forces had bombed Serbia.
                  Croatia , Bosnia, and Slovenia gained their independence.
                  All that remains of Yugoslavia today is Serbia and its tiny partner
                  Montenegro (Crna Gora)

                  According to online EIR.
                  In 1908 an Andreas Rak, age 28 (b. about 1880), married, German, born
                  in Lacsarak (a Hungarian spelling), had emigrated to his brother's
                  Peter Rak address in Detroit MI.
                  András (H) Andrej (Sk) Andrew (E) Andreas (G)(L)
                  Andrew had been in Detroit before and was a Non-Immigrant Alien (i.e.,
                  he hadn't settled permanently in the USA)
                  His closest next of kin was his mother Katharina Rak (assume she was
                  back in Lacarak, then still in Hungary)
                  So his wife may have resided either in Detroit or in Lacarak ?

                  v
                  Frank Kurcina
                • nhasior@aol.com
                  Hi Jean, according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak, exact spelling, is in Serbia. have you found Mitchovich ? Noreen [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
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                    Hi Jean,
                    according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak, exact spelling, is in Serbia.
                    have you found Mitchovich ?
                    Noreen


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • johnqadam
                    Look at according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak is in Serbia. and you will see Mitchovich next door.
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Look at "according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak is in Serbia." and you
                      will see "Mitchovich" next door.

                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, nhasior@a... wrote:
                      > Hi Jean,
                      > according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak, exact spelling, is in Serbia.
                      > have you found Mitchovich ?
                      > Noreen
                    • Jeanann Jameson
                      thanks for your help. happy new year jean ... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. Learn more.
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
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                        thanks for your help. happy new year jean
                        --- johnqadam <johnqadam@...> wrote:

                        >
                        > Look at "according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak is in
                        > Serbia." and you
                        > will see "Mitchovich" next door.
                        >
                        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, nhasior@a...
                        > wrote:
                        > > Hi Jean,
                        > > according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak, exact
                        > spelling, is in Serbia.
                        > > have you found Mitchovich ?
                        > > Noreen
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >




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                      • Jeanann Jameson
                        hi and happy new year. i believe they are close to each other but someone said there was a mountain between the two towns. i found out my grandparents lived
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
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                          hi and happy new year. i believe they are close to
                          each other but someone said there was a mountain
                          between the two towns. i found out my grandparents
                          lived in both towns. i still can't figure out how to
                          spell my grandmothers last name. i have tried many
                          variations for ellis island but can't find anything.
                          still looking. jean
                          --- nhasior@... wrote:

                          > Hi Jean,
                          > according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak, exact spelling,
                          > is in Serbia.
                          > have you found Mitchovich ?
                          > Noreen
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                          > removed]
                          >
                          >




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