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Lacarak & Mitrovic

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  • johnqadam
    To locate places in Europe, especially if you are not sure of the proper spelling of the place name, the best reference is found at
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 3, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      To locate places in Europe, especially if you are not sure of the
      proper spelling of the place name, the best reference is found at
      http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm
      LACARAK, Setbia 47.1 miles WNW of Belgrade
      MITROVIC (SREMSCA MITROVICA), Serbia 44.2 miles WNW of Belgrade

      ShtelSeeker will take you there via Mapquest.
    • nhasior@aol.com
      Hi Jean, my grandmother also spoke German, Polish, Slovak and Polish. She came from what was then the Austrio-Hungarian Empire. Today, her particular village
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 4, 2004
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        Hi Jean,
        my grandmother also spoke German, Polish, Slovak and Polish. She came from
        what was then the Austrio-Hungarian Empire. Today, her particular village was
        in the Eastern part of Slovakia near the town of Poprad. it is a spa and
        mineral water healing area of Slovakia and the reason that so many languages were
        learned is that many of the townspeople worked at the spas. many people of
        foreign countries such as Germany, would come and stay for spa treatments for
        ailments.
        what else do you know about the place? Belgrade is very far away, but maybe
        this will help give you another clue as to why all the languages.
        Noreen


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Frank
        ... Jean hi tag (G) czesc (P) ahoj (Sk) zdravo (Cr) Sremská Mitrovica (Croatian) Mitróvicza (Hungarian) Mitrowitz (German) Sirmium (Latin) Sremská Mitrovica
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 4, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jeanann Jameson
          <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
          > hi ron, thanks for getting back to me. i was hoping it
          > meant a town. the only town my mother remembers my
          > grandmother speaking is and excuse the spelling
          > Lacarac and Mitcovit and i believe bill once told me
          > those towns were what is now near belgrade. my
          > grandparents spoke german, hungarian, polish, and
          > slovick they were catholic so i'm still in the dark
          > about everything. but thanks for getting back to me.
          > maybe back then it was all called austria. thanks
          > again jean

          Jean
          hi
          tag (G)
          czesc (P)
          ahoj (Sk)
          zdravo (Cr)

          Sremská Mitrovica (Croatian)
          Mitróvicza (Hungarian)
          Mitrowitz (German)
          Sirmium (Latin)

          Sremská Mitrovica was a stop located on the Danube and Sava rivers on
          the mission of brothers Cyril and Methodius to convert Greater
          Moravia to Christianity in 863 AD.
          Supposedly the Slovaks, Czechs, and Carpatho-Rusyns were already
          established in Greater Moravia.

          Sremská Mitrovica is located in Serbia today, but it was located in
          Slavonia before WW I in Szerém megye (county), Hungary.
          Syrmia (E)
          Srem (Cr)
          Syrmien (G)

          Was your GM's husband a Andreas Rak ?
          What about a Andrea Rak, age 28, Hungarian-Croatian, married, who had
          emigrated in 1906 via port of Trieste to his brother-in-law in
          Steelton,PA.
          Andrea's Last Residence was Lacarak, i.e., Lac'arak (Srbija)

          Andrew (E)
          Andreas (G) (L)
          András (H)
          Andrea (I)
          Andreja (Cr)

          Steelton PA
          When the steel mill was erected, the stretch of land was named Steel
          City; that name eventually evolved into the proper title, Steelton.:
          "tons of steel."
          Before the works were built in 1866, the undeveloped land housed only
          six families.
          In the heyday of the steel industry, it was had over 16,000 residents,
          representing 33 different ethnic groups. With increasing
          deindustrialization and the closing down of many of the steel mill 's
          operations, the population declined to 5,162 people.

          v
          Frank Kurcina


          > --- amiak27 <rmat@p...> wrote:
          >
          > >
          > > Jean,
          > >
          > > I am sorry to be the one to disappoint you, but my
          > > immediate guess is
          > > that "Estrarich" is really "Österreich", which is
          > > what the Austrians
          > > call their own country, Austria. This can also be
          > > spelled "Oesterreich".
          > >
          > > So you have not narrowed it down to a village, but
          > > just the country.
          > > This can still include Austria, or Austrian Galicia
          > > which is now part
          > > of Poland & Ukraine. By some careless uses it can
          > > also be meant to
          > > include Hungary or Slovakia.
          > >
          > > To make sure, look up Jewish gen on the web and try
          > > their
          > > stettleseeker, which works phonetically.
          > >
          > > Good luck. Do you have any other hints, or even
          > > words that might
          > > give us a hint as to which dialect they spoke?
          > >
          > > Ron
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "jjeanann2000"
          > > <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hi i just found out that my grandmother may have
          > > come from a town
          > > or
          > > > village by a name that sounds like Estrarich in
          > > Austria. Any help
          > > > would be great. thanks Jean
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
          > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
        • Vladimir Bohinc
          Sremska Mitrovica is located right in the middle of Srem, which is a geaographical area right west of Belgrade. It never was located in Slavonia, which is
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 4, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            Sremska Mitrovica is located right in the middle of Srem, which is a geaographical area right west of Belgrade.
            It never was located in Slavonia, which is another geagraphical area, more West.
            It is located on Sava river, but not on Danube river. There is Fruska gora mountain between those two rivers. At the same distance from Belgrade, a capital of Vojvodina, Novi Sad , is located on Danube.
            Right next to Sremska Mitrovica, on the left side, is a small town of Lacarak.
            This is Serbia now.
            Vladimir

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Frank
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 11:55 PM
            Subject: [S-R] Re: a town



            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jeanann Jameson
            <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
            > hi ron, thanks for getting back to me. i was hoping it
            > meant a town. the only town my mother remembers my
            > grandmother speaking is and excuse the spelling
            > Lacarac and Mitcovit and i believe bill once told me
            > those towns were what is now near belgrade. my
            > grandparents spoke german, hungarian, polish, and
            > slovick they were catholic so i'm still in the dark
            > about everything. but thanks for getting back to me.
            > maybe back then it was all called austria. thanks
            > again jean

            Jean
            hi
            tag (G)
            czesc (P)
            ahoj (Sk)
            zdravo (Cr)

            Sremská Mitrovica (Croatian)
            Mitróvicza (Hungarian)
            Mitrowitz (German)
            Sirmium (Latin)

            Sremská Mitrovica was a stop located on the Danube and Sava rivers on
            the mission of brothers Cyril and Methodius to convert Greater
            Moravia to Christianity in 863 AD.
            Supposedly the Slovaks, Czechs, and Carpatho-Rusyns were already
            established in Greater Moravia.

            Sremská Mitrovica is located in Serbia today, but it was located in
            Slavonia before WW I in Szerém megye (county), Hungary.
            Syrmia (E)
            Srem (Cr)
            Syrmien (G)

            Was your GM's husband a Andreas Rak ?
            What about a Andrea Rak, age 28, Hungarian-Croatian, married, who had
            emigrated in 1906 via port of Trieste to his brother-in-law in
            Steelton,PA.
            Andrea's Last Residence was Lacarak, i.e., Lac'arak (Srbija)

            Andrew (E)
            Andreas (G) (L)
            András (H)
            Andrea (I)
            Andreja (Cr)

            Steelton PA
            When the steel mill was erected, the stretch of land was named Steel
            City; that name eventually evolved into the proper title, Steelton.:
            "tons of steel."
            Before the works were built in 1866, the undeveloped land housed only
            six families.
            In the heyday of the steel industry, it was had over 16,000 residents,
            representing 33 different ethnic groups. With increasing
            deindustrialization and the closing down of many of the steel mill 's
            operations, the population declined to 5,162 people.

            v
            Frank Kurcina


            > --- amiak27 <rmat@p...> wrote:
            >
            > >
            > > Jean,
            > >
            > > I am sorry to be the one to disappoint you, but my
            > > immediate guess is
            > > that "Estrarich" is really "Österreich", which is
            > > what the Austrians
            > > call their own country, Austria. This can also be
            > > spelled "Oesterreich".
            > >
            > > So you have not narrowed it down to a village, but
            > > just the country.
            > > This can still include Austria, or Austrian Galicia
            > > which is now part
            > > of Poland & Ukraine. By some careless uses it can
            > > also be meant to
            > > include Hungary or Slovakia.
            > >
            > > To make sure, look up Jewish gen on the web and try
            > > their
            > > stettleseeker, which works phonetically.
            > >
            > > Good luck. Do you have any other hints, or even
            > > words that might
            > > give us a hint as to which dialect they spoke?
            > >
            > > Ron
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "jjeanann2000"
            > > <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi i just found out that my grandmother may have
            > > come from a town
            > > or
            > > > village by a name that sounds like Estrarich in
            > > Austria. Any help
            > > > would be great. thanks Jean
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
            > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail





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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Frank
            ... geaographical area right west of Belgrade. ... area, more West. ... Fruska gora mountain between those two rivers. At the same distance from Belgrade, a
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 5, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Vladimir Bohinc" <konekta@n...>
              wrote:
              > Sremska Mitrovica is located right in the middle of Srem, which is a
              geaographical area right west of Belgrade.
              > It never was located in Slavonia, which is another geagraphical
              area, more West.
              > It is located on Sava river, but not on Danube river. There is
              Fruska gora mountain between those two rivers. At the same distance
              from Belgrade, a capital of Vojvodina, Novi Sad , is located on
              Danube.
              > Right next to Sremska Mitrovica, on the left side, is a small town
              of Lacarak.
              > This is Serbia now.
              > Vladimir

              Dear Vladimir,
              mea culpa

              prepác^te (Sk)
              tut mir leid (G)
              z^ao mi je (Cr)
              z^al mi je (Sl)

              I should have written
              DONAUSCHWABEN TOWN NAMES LOCATED IN SYRMIA

              i.e., Syrmisch-Mitrowitz, Mitrowitz/Sremska' Mitrovica, Mitrowica,
              Mitrovicza/Hrvatska Mitrovica

              History of the Region

              " In Antiquity the municipality of Sirmium (today Syrmisch-Mitrowitz)
              was the capital of the Roman province of Lower Pannonia.
              This name was later to be applied to the entire surrounding region.
              It was first settled by Germans during the Carolingian period
              and again later under the first kings of Hungary, the Arpads.
              The mountain range known as the Frankengebirge (or Fruska Gora)
              recalls the Frankish title to this territory.

              An Eastern Orthodox Metropolitan had his seat at Sremski Karlovci.
              After 1557, the Serbian Patriarch at Pec (Ipek) had jurisdiction
              over this.

              After 1526, the region fell to the Ottoman Empire, many of
              the previous inhabitants fleeing before them.

              With the conquests by the Habsburg Empire under Emperor Leopold I,
              the Turks were expelled in 1687. A peace treaty signed at Sremski
              Karlovci (Karlowitz) in 1699 confirmed this.
              The rest of Syrmia, the southeast portion, was added at the Peace of
              Pozarevac (Passarowitz) in 1718. As the region was now significantly
              depopulated, the Habsburg authorities encouraged emigration from
              other parts of their Empire; thus did Syrmia become part of the
              Danube-Swabian migration with the first German settlers going to
              Semlin.

              Emperor Leopold I first rewarded the Italian Odescalchi with Syrmia;
              later it came to the Albani. Following the peace treaty of
              Belgrade in 1739, German craftsmen and merchants settled in
              Peterwardein (Schwabendörfel, Mayerhof), Karlowitz (Deutsche Gasse),
              Mitrowitz and Vukovar. In 1745 the district of Syrmia
              was established with capital at Wukowar; its first governor was Baron
              Pejacevic (Pejatschewitsch) who in 1746 settled the first Germans on
              his property at Ruma. In the same year 10 to 30 kilometer-wide
              strips of formerly military territory along southern Syrmia were
              integrated into its territory.
              Previously this area had been directly administered by the Court
              Chamber (Hofkammer) in Vienna. The remainder belonged to
              various local nobles. In 1777, Friedrich Wilhelm (von) Taube, servant
              to the Court Chamber, secretly reported on Syrmia to
              the effect that due to the Turkish wars the land had become a
              wilderness and that the first immigrants had fallen victim to
              epidemics.

              Some founding dates (according to: Günter Schödl, Land an der
              Donau):
              1770: Stara Pasova (founded for Protestant Slovaks)
              1783: Neu-Slankamen (in the Military Border region, founded by
              Germans among others)
              1787: suburb of Semlin (like Neu-Slankamen)
              1790: about 600 Protestant families from southwest Germany, via Ulm,
              went to Peterwardein 1790-1820: re-establishment of German communities
              in the Military Border region; the first was:
              1791: Neu-Pasua (founded by 62 of the 600 families who had left from
              Ulm in 1790); Neu Banovci saw the arrival of more Germans and was
              almost fully German as of 1870.
              post 1800: The daughter settlement of Sotin whose inhabitants came
              from Neudorf, just across the Danube.
              1817: Neudorf by Vinkovci (founded for Protestant Germans)
              In the course of the 19th century -- in particular in the years 1820
              to 1850 -- settlements, particularly Opatovac, Lowas,Jarmina, Berak,
              Tompojevci, Tovarnik, Ilaca, Svinjarevci, Babska Nova and Orolik were
              strengthened by the influx of or establishments from daughter
              settlements in the Batschka. While this last group of settlements was
              all Roman Catholic, 1859
              saw the start of another influx of Evangelical Lutheran settlers, this
              time into Sidski Banovci, Neu-Jankowzi, Beschka, Bingula,
              Krcedin and others.

              1867 saw the division of the the Austro-Hungarian Dual Monarchy into a
              western, Austrian and an eastern, Hungarian half, the latter of which
              included Syrmia. The aftermath saw a strong magyarization effort.

              Syrmia remained in the Austrian Empire and then the Kingdom of Hungary
              component of Austro-Hungarian Empire until the end of the First World
              War. At this time most of Syrmia apart from the extreme eastern
              portion joined the new nation of Yugoslavia as part of the Treaty of
              Trianon (June 4, 1920) to become part of the Vojvodina autonomous
              region of the Serbian Republic.
              Administratively, it was part of the larger eastern section
              called Danube Banschaft, with a smaller western section
              belonging to the Save Banschaft. There was a strong slavicization
              effort, with which the Donauschwaben in Syrmia accommodated themselves
              well.

              Even though the region was not absorbed back into Hungary during
              the years 1941-44 as other neighboring regions were Syrmia was not
              spared the cruel fate that most Donauschwaben regions experienced
              during and following the Second World War. Following it, Syrmia was
              again part of the Vojvodina within the Serbian part of the Yugoslavian
              Republic. "

              Frank K







              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Frank
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 11:55 PM
              > Subject: [S-R] Re: a town
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jeanann Jameson
              > <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
              > > hi ron, thanks for getting back to me. i was hoping it
              > > meant a town. the only town my mother remembers my
              > > grandmother speaking is and excuse the spelling
              > > Lacarac and Mitcovit and i believe bill once told me
              > > those towns were what is now near belgrade. my
              > > grandparents spoke german, hungarian, polish, and
              > > slovick they were catholic so i'm still in the dark
              > > about everything. but thanks for getting back to me.
              > > maybe back then it was all called austria. thanks
              > > again jean
              >
              > Jean
              > hi
              > tag (G)
              > czesc (P)
              > ahoj (Sk)
              > zdravo (Cr)
              >
              > Sremská Mitrovica (Croatian)
              > Mitróvicza (Hungarian)
              > Mitrowitz (German)
              > Sirmium (Latin)
              >
              > Sremská Mitrovica was a stop located on the Danube and Sava rivers
              on
              > the mission of brothers Cyril and Methodius to convert Greater
              > Moravia to Christianity in 863 AD.
              > Supposedly the Slovaks, Czechs, and Carpatho-Rusyns were already
              > established in Greater Moravia.
              >
              > Sremská Mitrovica is located in Serbia today, but it was located
              in
              > Slavonia before WW I in Szerém megye (county), Hungary.
              > Syrmia (E)
              > Srem (Cr)
              > Syrmien (G)
              >
              > Was your GM's husband a Andreas Rak ?
              > What about a Andrea Rak, age 28, Hungarian-Croatian, married, who
              had
              > emigrated in 1906 via port of Trieste to his brother-in-law in
              > Steelton,PA.
              > Andrea's Last Residence was Lacarak, i.e., Lac'arak (Srbija)
              >
              > Andrew (E)
              > Andreas (G) (L)
              > András (H)
              > Andrea (I)
              > Andreja (Cr)
              >
              > Steelton PA
              > When the steel mill was erected, the stretch of land was named
              Steel
              > City; that name eventually evolved into the proper title,
              Steelton.:
              > "tons of steel."
              > Before the works were built in 1866, the undeveloped land housed
              only
              > six families.
              > In the heyday of the steel industry, it was had over 16,000
              residents,
              > representing 33 different ethnic groups. With increasing
              > deindustrialization and the closing down of many of the steel
              mill 's
              > operations, the population declined to 5,162 people.
              >
              > v
              > Frank Kurcina
              >
              >
              > > --- amiak27 <rmat@p...> wrote:
              > >
              > > >
              > > > Jean,
              > > >
              > > > I am sorry to be the one to disappoint you, but my
              > > > immediate guess is
              > > > that "Estrarich" is really "Österreich", which is
              > > > what the Austrians
              > > > call their own country, Austria. This can also be
              > > > spelled "Oesterreich".
              > > >
              > > > So you have not narrowed it down to a village, but
              > > > just the country.
              > > > This can still include Austria, or Austrian Galicia
              > > > which is now part
              > > > of Poland & Ukraine. By some careless uses it can
              > > > also be meant to
              > > > include Hungary or Slovakia.
              > > >
              > > > To make sure, look up Jewish gen on the web and try
              > > > their
              > > > stettleseeker, which works phonetically.
              > > >
              > > > Good luck. Do you have any other hints, or even
              > > > words that might
              > > > give us a hint as to which dialect they spoke?
              > > >
              > > > Ron
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "jjeanann2000"
              > > > <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Hi i just found out that my grandmother may have
              > > > come from a town
              > > > or
              > > > > village by a name that sounds like Estrarich in
              > > > Austria. Any help
              > > > > would be great. thanks Jean
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > __________________________________
              > > Do you Yahoo!?
              > > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
              > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
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              > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.935 (20041126) __________
              >
              > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
              > http://www.eset.sk
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Vladimir Bohinc
              Dear Frank, Nista, nista. Sve je u redu.:-) Vladimir ... From: Frank To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:58 PM Subject: [S-R]
              Message 6 of 18 , Dec 5, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                Dear Frank,
                Nista, nista. Sve je u redu.:-)
                Vladimir

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Frank
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:58 PM
                Subject: [S-R] Re: a town



                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Vladimir Bohinc" <konekta@n...>
                wrote:
                > Sremska Mitrovica is located right in the middle of Srem, which is a
                geaographical area right west of Belgrade.
                > It never was located in Slavonia, which is another geagraphical
                area, more West.
                > It is located on Sava river, but not on Danube river. There is
                Fruska gora mountain between those two rivers. At the same distance
                from Belgrade, a capital of Vojvodina, Novi Sad , is located on
                Danube.
                > Right next to Sremska Mitrovica, on the left side, is a small town
                of Lacarak.
                > This is Serbia now.
                > Vladimir

                Dear Vladimir,
                mea culpa

                prepác^te (Sk)
                tut mir leid (G)
                z^ao mi je (Cr)
                z^al mi je (Sl)

                I should have written
                DONAUSCHWABEN TOWN NAMES LOCATED IN SYRMIA

                i.e., Syrmisch-Mitrowitz, Mitrowitz/Sremska' Mitrovica, Mitrowica,
                Mitrovicza/Hrvatska Mitrovica

                History of the Region

                " In Antiquity the municipality of Sirmium (today Syrmisch-Mitrowitz)
                was the capital of the Roman province of Lower Pannonia.
                This name was later to be applied to the entire surrounding region.
                It was first settled by Germans during the Carolingian period
                and again later under the first kings of Hungary, the Arpads.
                The mountain range known as the Frankengebirge (or Fruska Gora)
                recalls the Frankish title to this territory.

                An Eastern Orthodox Metropolitan had his seat at Sremski Karlovci.
                After 1557, the Serbian Patriarch at Pec (Ipek) had jurisdiction
                over this.

                After 1526, the region fell to the Ottoman Empire, many of
                the previous inhabitants fleeing before them.

                With the conquests by the Habsburg Empire under Emperor Leopold I,
                the Turks were expelled in 1687. A peace treaty signed at Sremski
                Karlovci (Karlowitz) in 1699 confirmed this.
                The rest of Syrmia, the southeast portion, was added at the Peace of
                Pozarevac (Passarowitz) in 1718. As the region was now significantly
                depopulated, the Habsburg authorities encouraged emigration from
                other parts of their Empire; thus did Syrmia become part of the
                Danube-Swabian migration with the first German settlers going to
                Semlin.

                Emperor Leopold I first rewarded the Italian Odescalchi with Syrmia;
                later it came to the Albani. Following the peace treaty of
                Belgrade in 1739, German craftsmen and merchants settled in
                Peterwardein (Schwabendörfel, Mayerhof), Karlowitz (Deutsche Gasse),
                Mitrowitz and Vukovar. In 1745 the district of Syrmia
                was established with capital at Wukowar; its first governor was Baron
                Pejacevic (Pejatschewitsch) who in 1746 settled the first Germans on
                his property at Ruma. In the same year 10 to 30 kilometer-wide
                strips of formerly military territory along southern Syrmia were
                integrated into its territory.
                Previously this area had been directly administered by the Court
                Chamber (Hofkammer) in Vienna. The remainder belonged to
                various local nobles. In 1777, Friedrich Wilhelm (von) Taube, servant
                to the Court Chamber, secretly reported on Syrmia to
                the effect that due to the Turkish wars the land had become a
                wilderness and that the first immigrants had fallen victim to
                epidemics.

                Some founding dates (according to: Günter Schödl, Land an der
                Donau):
                1770: Stara Pasova (founded for Protestant Slovaks)
                1783: Neu-Slankamen (in the Military Border region, founded by
                Germans among others)
                1787: suburb of Semlin (like Neu-Slankamen)
                1790: about 600 Protestant families from southwest Germany, via Ulm,
                went to Peterwardein 1790-1820: re-establishment of German communities
                in the Military Border region; the first was:
                1791: Neu-Pasua (founded by 62 of the 600 families who had left from
                Ulm in 1790); Neu Banovci saw the arrival of more Germans and was
                almost fully German as of 1870.
                post 1800: The daughter settlement of Sotin whose inhabitants came
                from Neudorf, just across the Danube.
                1817: Neudorf by Vinkovci (founded for Protestant Germans)
                In the course of the 19th century -- in particular in the years 1820
                to 1850 -- settlements, particularly Opatovac, Lowas,Jarmina, Berak,
                Tompojevci, Tovarnik, Ilaca, Svinjarevci, Babska Nova and Orolik were
                strengthened by the influx of or establishments from daughter
                settlements in the Batschka. While this last group of settlements was
                all Roman Catholic, 1859
                saw the start of another influx of Evangelical Lutheran settlers, this
                time into Sidski Banovci, Neu-Jankowzi, Beschka, Bingula,
                Krcedin and others.

                1867 saw the division of the the Austro-Hungarian Dual Monarchy into a
                western, Austrian and an eastern, Hungarian half, the latter of which
                included Syrmia. The aftermath saw a strong magyarization effort.

                Syrmia remained in the Austrian Empire and then the Kingdom of Hungary
                component of Austro-Hungarian Empire until the end of the First World
                War. At this time most of Syrmia apart from the extreme eastern
                portion joined the new nation of Yugoslavia as part of the Treaty of
                Trianon (June 4, 1920) to become part of the Vojvodina autonomous
                region of the Serbian Republic.
                Administratively, it was part of the larger eastern section
                called Danube Banschaft, with a smaller western section
                belonging to the Save Banschaft. There was a strong slavicization
                effort, with which the Donauschwaben in Syrmia accommodated themselves
                well.

                Even though the region was not absorbed back into Hungary during
                the years 1941-44 as other neighboring regions were Syrmia was not
                spared the cruel fate that most Donauschwaben regions experienced
                during and following the Second World War. Following it, Syrmia was
                again part of the Vojvodina within the Serbian part of the Yugoslavian
                Republic. "

                Frank K







                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Frank
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 11:55 PM
                > Subject: [S-R] Re: a town
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jeanann Jameson
                > <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
                > > hi ron, thanks for getting back to me. i was hoping it
                > > meant a town. the only town my mother remembers my
                > > grandmother speaking is and excuse the spelling
                > > Lacarac and Mitcovit and i believe bill once told me
                > > those towns were what is now near belgrade. my
                > > grandparents spoke german, hungarian, polish, and
                > > slovick they were catholic so i'm still in the dark
                > > about everything. but thanks for getting back to me.
                > > maybe back then it was all called austria. thanks
                > > again jean
                >
                > Jean
                > hi
                > tag (G)
                > czesc (P)
                > ahoj (Sk)
                > zdravo (Cr)
                >
                > Sremská Mitrovica (Croatian)
                > Mitróvicza (Hungarian)
                > Mitrowitz (German)
                > Sirmium (Latin)
                >
                > Sremská Mitrovica was a stop located on the Danube and Sava rivers
                on
                > the mission of brothers Cyril and Methodius to convert Greater
                > Moravia to Christianity in 863 AD.
                > Supposedly the Slovaks, Czechs, and Carpatho-Rusyns were already
                > established in Greater Moravia.
                >
                > Sremská Mitrovica is located in Serbia today, but it was located
                in
                > Slavonia before WW I in Szerém megye (county), Hungary.
                > Syrmia (E)
                > Srem (Cr)
                > Syrmien (G)
                >
                > Was your GM's husband a Andreas Rak ?
                > What about a Andrea Rak, age 28, Hungarian-Croatian, married, who
                had
                > emigrated in 1906 via port of Trieste to his brother-in-law in
                > Steelton,PA.
                > Andrea's Last Residence was Lacarak, i.e., Lac'arak (Srbija)
                >
                > Andrew (E)
                > Andreas (G) (L)
                > András (H)
                > Andrea (I)
                > Andreja (Cr)
                >
                > Steelton PA
                > When the steel mill was erected, the stretch of land was named
                Steel
                > City; that name eventually evolved into the proper title,
                Steelton.:
                > "tons of steel."
                > Before the works were built in 1866, the undeveloped land housed
                only
                > six families.
                > In the heyday of the steel industry, it was had over 16,000
                residents,
                > representing 33 different ethnic groups. With increasing
                > deindustrialization and the closing down of many of the steel
                mill 's
                > operations, the population declined to 5,162 people.
                >
                > v
                > Frank Kurcina
                >
                >
                > > --- amiak27 <rmat@p...> wrote:
                > >
                > > >
                > > > Jean,
                > > >
                > > > I am sorry to be the one to disappoint you, but my
                > > > immediate guess is
                > > > that "Estrarich" is really "Österreich", which is
                > > > what the Austrians
                > > > call their own country, Austria. This can also be
                > > > spelled "Oesterreich".
                > > >
                > > > So you have not narrowed it down to a village, but
                > > > just the country.
                > > > This can still include Austria, or Austrian Galicia
                > > > which is now part
                > > > of Poland & Ukraine. By some careless uses it can
                > > > also be meant to
                > > > include Hungary or Slovakia.
                > > >
                > > > To make sure, look up Jewish gen on the web and try
                > > > their
                > > > stettleseeker, which works phonetically.
                > > >
                > > > Good luck. Do you have any other hints, or even
                > > > words that might
                > > > give us a hint as to which dialect they spoke?
                > > >
                > > > Ron
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "jjeanann2000"
                > > > <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Hi i just found out that my grandmother may have
                > > > come from a town
                > > > or
                > > > > village by a name that sounds like Estrarich in
                > > > Austria. Any help
                > > > > would be great. thanks Jean
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > __________________________________
                > > Do you Yahoo!?
                > > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
                > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
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                >
                >
                >
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              • krisstrot@aol.com
                In a message dated 12/5/2004 7:59:52 AM Central Standard Time, ... portion joined the new nation of Yugoslavia as part of the Treaty of Trianon (June 4, 1920)
                Message 7 of 18 , Dec 5, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  In a message dated 12/5/2004 7:59:52 AM Central Standard Time,
                  frankur@... writes:

                  >>At this time most of Syrmia apart from the extreme eastern
                  portion joined the new nation of Yugoslavia as part of the Treaty of
                  Trianon (June 4, 1920) to become part of the Vojvodina autonomous
                  region of the Serbian Republic. <<

                  Hi, Frank ... Interesting that you mention Vojvodina and Donauschwaben towns.
                  I hadn't thought to mention this part of my family history here (instead,
                  concentrating on my Grandfather's family in the Szepes area), but I guess my
                  Grandmother also qualifies for Slovak-Roots. My Grandmother (born Christina
                  Scharf) was also a German, who lived in a German town, who spoke German and
                  considered herself a German, but who happened to be a citizen of Hungary because she
                  lived in the Vojvodina area of what is now the Serbian Republic. Her town
                  was Crvenka (aka Cservenka or Tscherwenka) and she was a Donauschwaben. I have
                  had little luck finding birth, marriage and death records from this town, and
                  have come to understand they were lost after WWII. What information I have
                  been able to find (Angela Hefner at
                  http://www.genealogienetz.de/vereine/AKdFF/CDROM-e.htm) hasn't helped much (except to show her father's original ancestral
                  connection to the village at its founding in 1785). I wonder if there are
                  civil records available, and if this area is part of the 1869 Hungarian census.
                  Anyone know?
                  Kris


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Frank
                  ... Donauschwaben towns. ... (instead, ... guess my ... Christina ... German and ... Hungary because she ... Her town ... Donauschwaben. I have ... town, and
                  Message 8 of 18 , Dec 7, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, krisstrot@a... wrote:
                    > In a message dated 12/5/2004 7:59:52 AM Central Standard Time,
                    > frankur@w... writes:
                    >
                    > >>At this time most of Syrmia apart from the extreme eastern
                    > portion joined the new nation of Yugoslavia as part of the Treaty of
                    > Trianon (June 4, 1920) to become part of the Vojvodina autonomous
                    > region of the Serbian Republic. <<
                    >
                    > Hi, Frank ... Interesting that you mention Vojvodina and
                    Donauschwaben towns.
                    > I hadn't thought to mention this part of my family history here
                    (instead,
                    > concentrating on my Grandfather's family in the Szepes area), but I
                    guess my
                    > Grandmother also qualifies for Slovak-Roots. My Grandmother (born
                    Christina
                    > Scharf) was also a German, who lived in a German town, who spoke
                    German and
                    > considered herself a German, but who happened to be a citizen of
                    Hungary because she
                    > lived in the Vojvodina area of what is now the Serbian Republic.
                    Her town
                    > was Crvenka (aka Cservenka or Tscherwenka) and she was a
                    Donauschwaben. I have
                    > had little luck finding birth, marriage and death records from this
                    town, and
                    > have come to understand they were lost after WWII. What information
                    I have
                    > been able to find (Angela Hefner at
                    > http://www.genealogienetz.de/vereine/AKdFF/CDROM-e.htm) hasn't
                    helped much (except to show her father's original ancestral
                    > connection to the village at its founding in 1785). I wonder if
                    there are
                    > civil records available, and if this area is part of the 1869
                    Hungarian census.
                    > Anyone know?
                    > Kris

                    Kris

                    Only one census, Cservenka in 1828.

                    All that exists of former Yugoslavia now is Serbia and Montenegro -
                    a single republic.

                    The six republics that had formed the former Yugoslavia were : Bosnia
                    and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Slovenia, and Serbia.
                    Wars were fought in 1990s and Croatia, Slovenia, and Bosnia became
                    independent.


                    Cservenka

                    Village Names:

                    German: Tscherwenka, Rotweil
                    Official: Crvenka
                    Hungarian: Cservenka
                    Spelling and/or dialect variants: Cervenka, Rot

                    Location:

                    Country: Yugoslavia
                    near Kula (four Kulas
                    in Serbia ?)


                    Population:

                    1921: 8,851 (6,850)
                    1910: 7,674 (6,861)
                    1880: 7,025 (6,268)

                    Genealogical Records:

                    Village name in FHL records:
                    Church records available at FHL:
                    FHL Microfilm Nr.:
                    FHL Census Microfilm: Cservenka in 1828: # 622964

                    Miscellaneous:

                    Bibliography (only in German)
                    Earliest Appearance in History: 1543
                    Earliest German Settlement: 1784
                    Churches: Evangelical Lutheran/Banya diocese, Reformed/Dunamellek
                    diocese
                    District: 8 - Kula
                    Some settlers of this town continued migration eastward to Russia
                    as documented in Karl Stumpp's The Emigration from Germany to
                    Russia (AHSGR)
                    History of Cservenka (in Serbian)

                    http://solair.eunet.yu/%7Emarjanj/crvenka.html


                    Frank K
                  • Jeanann Jameson
                    hi noreen sorry this took so long to answer you but my computer has been broke. i have no clues about the villages my grandparents lived in other than they
                    Message 9 of 18 , Dec 24, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      hi noreen sorry this took so long to answer you but my
                      computer has been broke. i have no clues about the
                      villages my grandparents lived in other than they
                      talked about lacarak and mitchovich i'm thinking they
                      lived at one time in both villages. their parents were
                      farmers and there farms were right next to each other.
                      here in the u.s. when friends or relatives would come
                      over the adults would speek slovak so the kids
                      couldn't understand what they were speaking about but
                      normally they spoke german. my grandfather spoke seven
                      languages and my grandmother spoke 4. being on a farm
                      i have no idea why. well thanks for your help and have
                      a nice holiday. jean
                      --- nhasior@... wrote:

                      > Hi Jean,
                      > my grandmother also spoke German, Polish, Slovak and
                      > Polish. She came from
                      > what was then the Austrio-Hungarian Empire. Today,
                      > her particular village was
                      > in the Eastern part of Slovakia near the town of
                      > Poprad. it is a spa and
                      > mineral water healing area of Slovakia and the
                      > reason that so many languages were
                      > learned is that many of the townspeople worked at
                      > the spas. many people of
                      > foreign countries such as Germany, would come and
                      > stay for spa treatments for
                      > ailments.
                      > what else do you know about the place? Belgrade is
                      > very far away, but maybe
                      > this will help give you another clue as to why all
                      > the languages.
                      > Noreen
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      >
                      >




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                    • johnqadam
                      Lacarak is 47.1 miles WNW of Belgrade and Sremska Mitrovica is the adjacent village. To locate places in Europe, especially if you are not sure of the proper
                      Message 10 of 18 , Dec 24, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Lacarak is 47.1 miles WNW of Belgrade and Sremska Mitrovica is the
                        adjacent village.

                        To locate places in Europe, especially if you are not sure of the
                        proper spelling of the place name, the best reference is found at
                        http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm

                        ShtelSeeker will take you there via Mapquest.
                      • Frank
                        ... 24 Dec 2003 jean wrote ... 2 Aug 2003 ... 9 Nov 2003 ... Over 51 million people lived in the former Austro-Hungarian Empire. The two largest ethnic groups
                        Message 11 of 18 , Dec 25, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jeanann Jameson
                          <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
                          > hi noreen sorry this took so long to answer you but my
                          > computer has been broke. i have no clues about the
                          > villages my grandparents lived in other than they
                          > talked about lacarak and mitchovich i'm thinking they
                          > lived at one time in both villages. their parents were
                          > farmers and there farms were right next to each other.
                          > here in the u.s. when friends or relatives would come
                          > over the adults would speek slovak so the kids
                          > couldn't understand what they were speaking about but
                          > normally they spoke german. my grandfather spoke seven
                          > languages and my grandmother spoke 4. being on a farm
                          > i have no idea why. well thanks for your help and have
                          > a nice holiday. jean

                          24 Dec 2003

                          jean wrote

                          > I have no clues about the villages my grandparents lived other than
                          > they talked about Lacark and Mitchovich

                          > the adults would speak Slovak so the kids couldn't understand what
                          > they were speaking about but normally they spoke German.

                          > my grandfather spoke seven languages and my grandmother spoke 4


                          2 Aug 2003

                          > my grandfather was Andres Rak. I have been told they are from
                          > Austria, Czech, Poland, Yugoslavia at this point don't know
                          > some of towns my mother has mentioned are lacark, mikitovich,
                          > macvenska, and hesse

                          > My older brother says my grandfather Andras Rak is from Lacarak,
                          > Hungary and my grandmother is from Mitrovica Austria and they were
                          > only a few miles apart

                          9 Nov 2003

                          > my great grandmother was Froni (Veronica) Stranc married Stefan
                          > Yellenburger
                          > no dates or information on either of them
                          > her children were names Annie and Magdalena. Magdalena is my
                          > grandmother who was born in 1884.
                          > My grandmother has mentioned before she died the Danube River,
                          > Sabe River, Lakarak, and a town that had two names in it something
                          > like Mitovicha-Manscha


                          Over 51 million people lived in the former Austro-Hungarian Empire.
                          The two largest ethnic groups were Germans (10 million) and Hungarians
                          (9 million). There were also Poles, Croats, Bosnians,
                          Serbians,Italians,
                          Czechs, Ruthenes, Slovenes, Slovaks and Romanians.
                          Overall, fifteen different languages were spoken in the former
                          Austro-Hungarian Empire.

                          Lacarak is located 47 miles NNW of Belgrade (Beograd) Serbia and
                          Sremska Mitrovica is an adjacent village.
                          Macvanska Mitrovica is located 45 miles NNW of Belgrade.
                          The Sava River is located close by.

                          Hesse is a region (province) located in SW Germany.
                          During WW II American troops "liberated" Hesse from the Germans.

                          Many if not all Donauschwaben (Danube Germans) had barged down
                          the Donau (Danube) River during the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries.
                          These migrants often set out from the cities of Ulm or Günzburg,
                          Schwaben (Swabia), Germany, along the Danube River or on it via
                          the famous "Ulmer Schachtel" (Ulm Crates or barges), hence the name,
                          Donauschwaben.
                          Some migrated from modern Baden-Württemberg, Alsace, and Lorraine.
                          Others hailed from Austria and other places in the Austro-Hungarian
                          Empire. Hence germane (pertinent to the former AHE)

                          According to the Treaty of Trianon (June 4, 1920), Hungary lost
                          two-thirds of its former territory to Czechoslovakia (Slovakia,
                          Carpathian Rus'), Romania (Transylvania, * Banat), Yugoslavia
                          (Croatia, Slavonia, Syrmia, Bac^ka, western Banat), and Austria
                          (Burgenland)
                          Germans (Donauschwaben) lived in the Area of Syrmien County the
                          Batschka and the Banat. (Also Hungary)
                          Szerém (H) Syrmia (E) Syrmien (G) Srem (Cr)

                          The six republics that formed the former Yugoslavia were :
                          Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Slovenia,
                          and Serbia.

                          In 1945 the Communist Yugoslavs had expelled all the Donauschwaben
                          from the country.
                          Following the breakup of the former Federal Republic of Yugoslavia in
                          1991, Slovenija became a separate republic as did Croatia
                          (Croatia-Slavonia)
                          A war was fought in former Yugoslavia in 1990s between Croatian and
                          Serbian forces.
                          NATO and US forces had bombed Serbia.
                          Croatia , Bosnia, and Slovenia gained their independence.
                          All that remains of Yugoslavia today is Serbia and its tiny partner
                          Montenegro (Crna Gora)

                          According to online EIR.
                          In 1908 an Andreas Rak, age 28 (b. about 1880), married, German, born
                          in Lacsarak (a Hungarian spelling), had emigrated to his brother's
                          Peter Rak address in Detroit MI.
                          András (H) Andrej (Sk) Andrew (E) Andreas (G)(L)
                          Andrew had been in Detroit before and was a Non-Immigrant Alien (i.e.,
                          he hadn't settled permanently in the USA)
                          His closest next of kin was his mother Katharina Rak (assume she was
                          back in Lacarak, then still in Hungary)
                          So his wife may have resided either in Detroit or in Lacarak ?

                          v
                          Frank Kurcina
                        • nhasior@aol.com
                          Hi Jean, according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak, exact spelling, is in Serbia. have you found Mitchovich ? Noreen [Non-text portions of this message have been
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Jean,
                            according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak, exact spelling, is in Serbia.
                            have you found Mitchovich ?
                            Noreen


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • johnqadam
                            Look at according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak is in Serbia. and you will see Mitchovich next door.
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Look at "according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak is in Serbia." and you
                              will see "Mitchovich" next door.

                              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, nhasior@a... wrote:
                              > Hi Jean,
                              > according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak, exact spelling, is in Serbia.
                              > have you found Mitchovich ?
                              > Noreen
                            • Jeanann Jameson
                              thanks for your help. happy new year jean ... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. Learn more.
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                thanks for your help. happy new year jean
                                --- johnqadam <johnqadam@...> wrote:

                                >
                                > Look at "according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak is in
                                > Serbia." and you
                                > will see "Mitchovich" next door.
                                >
                                > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, nhasior@a...
                                > wrote:
                                > > Hi Jean,
                                > > according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak, exact
                                > spelling, is in Serbia.
                                > > have you found Mitchovich ?
                                > > Noreen
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >




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                              • Jeanann Jameson
                                hi and happy new year. i believe they are close to each other but someone said there was a mountain between the two towns. i found out my grandparents lived
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  hi and happy new year. i believe they are close to
                                  each other but someone said there was a mountain
                                  between the two towns. i found out my grandparents
                                  lived in both towns. i still can't figure out how to
                                  spell my grandmothers last name. i have tried many
                                  variations for ellis island but can't find anything.
                                  still looking. jean
                                  --- nhasior@... wrote:

                                  > Hi Jean,
                                  > according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak, exact spelling,
                                  > is in Serbia.
                                  > have you found Mitchovich ?
                                  > Noreen
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                  > removed]
                                  >
                                  >




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