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Re: a town

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  • amiak27
    Jean, I am sorry to be the one to disappoint you, but my immediate guess is that Estrarich is really Österreich , which is what the Austrians call their
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 2, 2004
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      Jean,

      I am sorry to be the one to disappoint you, but my immediate guess is
      that "Estrarich" is really "Österreich", which is what the Austrians
      call their own country, Austria. This can also be
      spelled "Oesterreich".

      So you have not narrowed it down to a village, but just the country.
      This can still include Austria, or Austrian Galicia which is now part
      of Poland & Ukraine. By some careless uses it can also be meant to
      include Hungary or Slovakia.

      To make sure, look up Jewish gen on the web and try their
      stettleseeker, which works phonetically.

      Good luck. Do you have any other hints, or even words that might
      give us a hint as to which dialect they spoke?

      Ron


      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "jjeanann2000"
      <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi i just found out that my grandmother may have come from a town
      or
      > village by a name that sounds like Estrarich in Austria. Any help
      > would be great. thanks Jean
    • Jeanann Jameson
      hi ron, thanks for getting back to me. i was hoping it meant a town. the only town my mother remembers my grandmother speaking is and excuse the spelling
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 3, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        hi ron, thanks for getting back to me. i was hoping it
        meant a town. the only town my mother remembers my
        grandmother speaking is and excuse the spelling
        Lacarac and Mitcovit and i believe bill once told me
        those towns were what is now near belgrade. my
        grandparents spoke german, hungarian, polish, and
        slovick they were catholic so i'm still in the dark
        about everything. but thanks for getting back to me.
        maybe back then it was all called austria. thanks
        again jean
        --- amiak27 <rmat@...> wrote:

        >
        > Jean,
        >
        > I am sorry to be the one to disappoint you, but my
        > immediate guess is
        > that "Estrarich" is really "�sterreich", which is
        > what the Austrians
        > call their own country, Austria. This can also be
        > spelled "Oesterreich".
        >
        > So you have not narrowed it down to a village, but
        > just the country.
        > This can still include Austria, or Austrian Galicia
        > which is now part
        > of Poland & Ukraine. By some careless uses it can
        > also be meant to
        > include Hungary or Slovakia.
        >
        > To make sure, look up Jewish gen on the web and try
        > their
        > stettleseeker, which works phonetically.
        >
        > Good luck. Do you have any other hints, or even
        > words that might
        > give us a hint as to which dialect they spoke?
        >
        > Ron
        >
        >
        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "jjeanann2000"
        > <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi i just found out that my grandmother may have
        > come from a town
        > or
        > > village by a name that sounds like Estrarich in
        > Austria. Any help
        > > would be great. thanks Jean
        >
        >
        >
        >




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      • johnqadam
        To locate places in Europe, especially if you are not sure of the proper spelling of the place name, the best reference is found at
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 3, 2004
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          To locate places in Europe, especially if you are not sure of the
          proper spelling of the place name, the best reference is found at
          http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm
          LACARAK, Setbia 47.1 miles WNW of Belgrade
          MITROVIC (SREMSCA MITROVICA), Serbia 44.2 miles WNW of Belgrade

          ShtelSeeker will take you there via Mapquest.
        • nhasior@aol.com
          Hi Jean, my grandmother also spoke German, Polish, Slovak and Polish. She came from what was then the Austrio-Hungarian Empire. Today, her particular village
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 4, 2004
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            Hi Jean,
            my grandmother also spoke German, Polish, Slovak and Polish. She came from
            what was then the Austrio-Hungarian Empire. Today, her particular village was
            in the Eastern part of Slovakia near the town of Poprad. it is a spa and
            mineral water healing area of Slovakia and the reason that so many languages were
            learned is that many of the townspeople worked at the spas. many people of
            foreign countries such as Germany, would come and stay for spa treatments for
            ailments.
            what else do you know about the place? Belgrade is very far away, but maybe
            this will help give you another clue as to why all the languages.
            Noreen


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Frank
            ... Jean hi tag (G) czesc (P) ahoj (Sk) zdravo (Cr) Sremská Mitrovica (Croatian) Mitróvicza (Hungarian) Mitrowitz (German) Sirmium (Latin) Sremská Mitrovica
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 4, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jeanann Jameson
              <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
              > hi ron, thanks for getting back to me. i was hoping it
              > meant a town. the only town my mother remembers my
              > grandmother speaking is and excuse the spelling
              > Lacarac and Mitcovit and i believe bill once told me
              > those towns were what is now near belgrade. my
              > grandparents spoke german, hungarian, polish, and
              > slovick they were catholic so i'm still in the dark
              > about everything. but thanks for getting back to me.
              > maybe back then it was all called austria. thanks
              > again jean

              Jean
              hi
              tag (G)
              czesc (P)
              ahoj (Sk)
              zdravo (Cr)

              Sremská Mitrovica (Croatian)
              Mitróvicza (Hungarian)
              Mitrowitz (German)
              Sirmium (Latin)

              Sremská Mitrovica was a stop located on the Danube and Sava rivers on
              the mission of brothers Cyril and Methodius to convert Greater
              Moravia to Christianity in 863 AD.
              Supposedly the Slovaks, Czechs, and Carpatho-Rusyns were already
              established in Greater Moravia.

              Sremská Mitrovica is located in Serbia today, but it was located in
              Slavonia before WW I in Szerém megye (county), Hungary.
              Syrmia (E)
              Srem (Cr)
              Syrmien (G)

              Was your GM's husband a Andreas Rak ?
              What about a Andrea Rak, age 28, Hungarian-Croatian, married, who had
              emigrated in 1906 via port of Trieste to his brother-in-law in
              Steelton,PA.
              Andrea's Last Residence was Lacarak, i.e., Lac'arak (Srbija)

              Andrew (E)
              Andreas (G) (L)
              András (H)
              Andrea (I)
              Andreja (Cr)

              Steelton PA
              When the steel mill was erected, the stretch of land was named Steel
              City; that name eventually evolved into the proper title, Steelton.:
              "tons of steel."
              Before the works were built in 1866, the undeveloped land housed only
              six families.
              In the heyday of the steel industry, it was had over 16,000 residents,
              representing 33 different ethnic groups. With increasing
              deindustrialization and the closing down of many of the steel mill 's
              operations, the population declined to 5,162 people.

              v
              Frank Kurcina


              > --- amiak27 <rmat@p...> wrote:
              >
              > >
              > > Jean,
              > >
              > > I am sorry to be the one to disappoint you, but my
              > > immediate guess is
              > > that "Estrarich" is really "Österreich", which is
              > > what the Austrians
              > > call their own country, Austria. This can also be
              > > spelled "Oesterreich".
              > >
              > > So you have not narrowed it down to a village, but
              > > just the country.
              > > This can still include Austria, or Austrian Galicia
              > > which is now part
              > > of Poland & Ukraine. By some careless uses it can
              > > also be meant to
              > > include Hungary or Slovakia.
              > >
              > > To make sure, look up Jewish gen on the web and try
              > > their
              > > stettleseeker, which works phonetically.
              > >
              > > Good luck. Do you have any other hints, or even
              > > words that might
              > > give us a hint as to which dialect they spoke?
              > >
              > > Ron
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "jjeanann2000"
              > > <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hi i just found out that my grandmother may have
              > > come from a town
              > > or
              > > > village by a name that sounds like Estrarich in
              > > Austria. Any help
              > > > would be great. thanks Jean
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________
              > Do you Yahoo!?
              > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
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            • Vladimir Bohinc
              Sremska Mitrovica is located right in the middle of Srem, which is a geaographical area right west of Belgrade. It never was located in Slavonia, which is
              Message 6 of 18 , Dec 4, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                Sremska Mitrovica is located right in the middle of Srem, which is a geaographical area right west of Belgrade.
                It never was located in Slavonia, which is another geagraphical area, more West.
                It is located on Sava river, but not on Danube river. There is Fruska gora mountain between those two rivers. At the same distance from Belgrade, a capital of Vojvodina, Novi Sad , is located on Danube.
                Right next to Sremska Mitrovica, on the left side, is a small town of Lacarak.
                This is Serbia now.
                Vladimir

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Frank
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 11:55 PM
                Subject: [S-R] Re: a town



                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jeanann Jameson
                <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
                > hi ron, thanks for getting back to me. i was hoping it
                > meant a town. the only town my mother remembers my
                > grandmother speaking is and excuse the spelling
                > Lacarac and Mitcovit and i believe bill once told me
                > those towns were what is now near belgrade. my
                > grandparents spoke german, hungarian, polish, and
                > slovick they were catholic so i'm still in the dark
                > about everything. but thanks for getting back to me.
                > maybe back then it was all called austria. thanks
                > again jean

                Jean
                hi
                tag (G)
                czesc (P)
                ahoj (Sk)
                zdravo (Cr)

                Sremská Mitrovica (Croatian)
                Mitróvicza (Hungarian)
                Mitrowitz (German)
                Sirmium (Latin)

                Sremská Mitrovica was a stop located on the Danube and Sava rivers on
                the mission of brothers Cyril and Methodius to convert Greater
                Moravia to Christianity in 863 AD.
                Supposedly the Slovaks, Czechs, and Carpatho-Rusyns were already
                established in Greater Moravia.

                Sremská Mitrovica is located in Serbia today, but it was located in
                Slavonia before WW I in Szerém megye (county), Hungary.
                Syrmia (E)
                Srem (Cr)
                Syrmien (G)

                Was your GM's husband a Andreas Rak ?
                What about a Andrea Rak, age 28, Hungarian-Croatian, married, who had
                emigrated in 1906 via port of Trieste to his brother-in-law in
                Steelton,PA.
                Andrea's Last Residence was Lacarak, i.e., Lac'arak (Srbija)

                Andrew (E)
                Andreas (G) (L)
                András (H)
                Andrea (I)
                Andreja (Cr)

                Steelton PA
                When the steel mill was erected, the stretch of land was named Steel
                City; that name eventually evolved into the proper title, Steelton.:
                "tons of steel."
                Before the works were built in 1866, the undeveloped land housed only
                six families.
                In the heyday of the steel industry, it was had over 16,000 residents,
                representing 33 different ethnic groups. With increasing
                deindustrialization and the closing down of many of the steel mill 's
                operations, the population declined to 5,162 people.

                v
                Frank Kurcina


                > --- amiak27 <rmat@p...> wrote:
                >
                > >
                > > Jean,
                > >
                > > I am sorry to be the one to disappoint you, but my
                > > immediate guess is
                > > that "Estrarich" is really "Österreich", which is
                > > what the Austrians
                > > call their own country, Austria. This can also be
                > > spelled "Oesterreich".
                > >
                > > So you have not narrowed it down to a village, but
                > > just the country.
                > > This can still include Austria, or Austrian Galicia
                > > which is now part
                > > of Poland & Ukraine. By some careless uses it can
                > > also be meant to
                > > include Hungary or Slovakia.
                > >
                > > To make sure, look up Jewish gen on the web and try
                > > their
                > > stettleseeker, which works phonetically.
                > >
                > > Good luck. Do you have any other hints, or even
                > > words that might
                > > give us a hint as to which dialect they spoke?
                > >
                > > Ron
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "jjeanann2000"
                > > <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hi i just found out that my grandmother may have
                > > come from a town
                > > or
                > > > village by a name that sounds like Estrarich in
                > > Austria. Any help
                > > > would be great. thanks Jean
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > __________________________________
                > Do you Yahoo!?
                > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
                > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail





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              • Frank
                ... geaographical area right west of Belgrade. ... area, more West. ... Fruska gora mountain between those two rivers. At the same distance from Belgrade, a
                Message 7 of 18 , Dec 5, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Vladimir Bohinc" <konekta@n...>
                  wrote:
                  > Sremska Mitrovica is located right in the middle of Srem, which is a
                  geaographical area right west of Belgrade.
                  > It never was located in Slavonia, which is another geagraphical
                  area, more West.
                  > It is located on Sava river, but not on Danube river. There is
                  Fruska gora mountain between those two rivers. At the same distance
                  from Belgrade, a capital of Vojvodina, Novi Sad , is located on
                  Danube.
                  > Right next to Sremska Mitrovica, on the left side, is a small town
                  of Lacarak.
                  > This is Serbia now.
                  > Vladimir

                  Dear Vladimir,
                  mea culpa

                  prepác^te (Sk)
                  tut mir leid (G)
                  z^ao mi je (Cr)
                  z^al mi je (Sl)

                  I should have written
                  DONAUSCHWABEN TOWN NAMES LOCATED IN SYRMIA

                  i.e., Syrmisch-Mitrowitz, Mitrowitz/Sremska' Mitrovica, Mitrowica,
                  Mitrovicza/Hrvatska Mitrovica

                  History of the Region

                  " In Antiquity the municipality of Sirmium (today Syrmisch-Mitrowitz)
                  was the capital of the Roman province of Lower Pannonia.
                  This name was later to be applied to the entire surrounding region.
                  It was first settled by Germans during the Carolingian period
                  and again later under the first kings of Hungary, the Arpads.
                  The mountain range known as the Frankengebirge (or Fruska Gora)
                  recalls the Frankish title to this territory.

                  An Eastern Orthodox Metropolitan had his seat at Sremski Karlovci.
                  After 1557, the Serbian Patriarch at Pec (Ipek) had jurisdiction
                  over this.

                  After 1526, the region fell to the Ottoman Empire, many of
                  the previous inhabitants fleeing before them.

                  With the conquests by the Habsburg Empire under Emperor Leopold I,
                  the Turks were expelled in 1687. A peace treaty signed at Sremski
                  Karlovci (Karlowitz) in 1699 confirmed this.
                  The rest of Syrmia, the southeast portion, was added at the Peace of
                  Pozarevac (Passarowitz) in 1718. As the region was now significantly
                  depopulated, the Habsburg authorities encouraged emigration from
                  other parts of their Empire; thus did Syrmia become part of the
                  Danube-Swabian migration with the first German settlers going to
                  Semlin.

                  Emperor Leopold I first rewarded the Italian Odescalchi with Syrmia;
                  later it came to the Albani. Following the peace treaty of
                  Belgrade in 1739, German craftsmen and merchants settled in
                  Peterwardein (Schwabendörfel, Mayerhof), Karlowitz (Deutsche Gasse),
                  Mitrowitz and Vukovar. In 1745 the district of Syrmia
                  was established with capital at Wukowar; its first governor was Baron
                  Pejacevic (Pejatschewitsch) who in 1746 settled the first Germans on
                  his property at Ruma. In the same year 10 to 30 kilometer-wide
                  strips of formerly military territory along southern Syrmia were
                  integrated into its territory.
                  Previously this area had been directly administered by the Court
                  Chamber (Hofkammer) in Vienna. The remainder belonged to
                  various local nobles. In 1777, Friedrich Wilhelm (von) Taube, servant
                  to the Court Chamber, secretly reported on Syrmia to
                  the effect that due to the Turkish wars the land had become a
                  wilderness and that the first immigrants had fallen victim to
                  epidemics.

                  Some founding dates (according to: Günter Schödl, Land an der
                  Donau):
                  1770: Stara Pasova (founded for Protestant Slovaks)
                  1783: Neu-Slankamen (in the Military Border region, founded by
                  Germans among others)
                  1787: suburb of Semlin (like Neu-Slankamen)
                  1790: about 600 Protestant families from southwest Germany, via Ulm,
                  went to Peterwardein 1790-1820: re-establishment of German communities
                  in the Military Border region; the first was:
                  1791: Neu-Pasua (founded by 62 of the 600 families who had left from
                  Ulm in 1790); Neu Banovci saw the arrival of more Germans and was
                  almost fully German as of 1870.
                  post 1800: The daughter settlement of Sotin whose inhabitants came
                  from Neudorf, just across the Danube.
                  1817: Neudorf by Vinkovci (founded for Protestant Germans)
                  In the course of the 19th century -- in particular in the years 1820
                  to 1850 -- settlements, particularly Opatovac, Lowas,Jarmina, Berak,
                  Tompojevci, Tovarnik, Ilaca, Svinjarevci, Babska Nova and Orolik were
                  strengthened by the influx of or establishments from daughter
                  settlements in the Batschka. While this last group of settlements was
                  all Roman Catholic, 1859
                  saw the start of another influx of Evangelical Lutheran settlers, this
                  time into Sidski Banovci, Neu-Jankowzi, Beschka, Bingula,
                  Krcedin and others.

                  1867 saw the division of the the Austro-Hungarian Dual Monarchy into a
                  western, Austrian and an eastern, Hungarian half, the latter of which
                  included Syrmia. The aftermath saw a strong magyarization effort.

                  Syrmia remained in the Austrian Empire and then the Kingdom of Hungary
                  component of Austro-Hungarian Empire until the end of the First World
                  War. At this time most of Syrmia apart from the extreme eastern
                  portion joined the new nation of Yugoslavia as part of the Treaty of
                  Trianon (June 4, 1920) to become part of the Vojvodina autonomous
                  region of the Serbian Republic.
                  Administratively, it was part of the larger eastern section
                  called Danube Banschaft, with a smaller western section
                  belonging to the Save Banschaft. There was a strong slavicization
                  effort, with which the Donauschwaben in Syrmia accommodated themselves
                  well.

                  Even though the region was not absorbed back into Hungary during
                  the years 1941-44 as other neighboring regions were Syrmia was not
                  spared the cruel fate that most Donauschwaben regions experienced
                  during and following the Second World War. Following it, Syrmia was
                  again part of the Vojvodina within the Serbian part of the Yugoslavian
                  Republic. "

                  Frank K







                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Frank
                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 11:55 PM
                  > Subject: [S-R] Re: a town
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jeanann Jameson
                  > <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
                  > > hi ron, thanks for getting back to me. i was hoping it
                  > > meant a town. the only town my mother remembers my
                  > > grandmother speaking is and excuse the spelling
                  > > Lacarac and Mitcovit and i believe bill once told me
                  > > those towns were what is now near belgrade. my
                  > > grandparents spoke german, hungarian, polish, and
                  > > slovick they were catholic so i'm still in the dark
                  > > about everything. but thanks for getting back to me.
                  > > maybe back then it was all called austria. thanks
                  > > again jean
                  >
                  > Jean
                  > hi
                  > tag (G)
                  > czesc (P)
                  > ahoj (Sk)
                  > zdravo (Cr)
                  >
                  > Sremská Mitrovica (Croatian)
                  > Mitróvicza (Hungarian)
                  > Mitrowitz (German)
                  > Sirmium (Latin)
                  >
                  > Sremská Mitrovica was a stop located on the Danube and Sava rivers
                  on
                  > the mission of brothers Cyril and Methodius to convert Greater
                  > Moravia to Christianity in 863 AD.
                  > Supposedly the Slovaks, Czechs, and Carpatho-Rusyns were already
                  > established in Greater Moravia.
                  >
                  > Sremská Mitrovica is located in Serbia today, but it was located
                  in
                  > Slavonia before WW I in Szerém megye (county), Hungary.
                  > Syrmia (E)
                  > Srem (Cr)
                  > Syrmien (G)
                  >
                  > Was your GM's husband a Andreas Rak ?
                  > What about a Andrea Rak, age 28, Hungarian-Croatian, married, who
                  had
                  > emigrated in 1906 via port of Trieste to his brother-in-law in
                  > Steelton,PA.
                  > Andrea's Last Residence was Lacarak, i.e., Lac'arak (Srbija)
                  >
                  > Andrew (E)
                  > Andreas (G) (L)
                  > András (H)
                  > Andrea (I)
                  > Andreja (Cr)
                  >
                  > Steelton PA
                  > When the steel mill was erected, the stretch of land was named
                  Steel
                  > City; that name eventually evolved into the proper title,
                  Steelton.:
                  > "tons of steel."
                  > Before the works were built in 1866, the undeveloped land housed
                  only
                  > six families.
                  > In the heyday of the steel industry, it was had over 16,000
                  residents,
                  > representing 33 different ethnic groups. With increasing
                  > deindustrialization and the closing down of many of the steel
                  mill 's
                  > operations, the population declined to 5,162 people.
                  >
                  > v
                  > Frank Kurcina
                  >
                  >
                  > > --- amiak27 <rmat@p...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Jean,
                  > > >
                  > > > I am sorry to be the one to disappoint you, but my
                  > > > immediate guess is
                  > > > that "Estrarich" is really "Österreich", which is
                  > > > what the Austrians
                  > > > call their own country, Austria. This can also be
                  > > > spelled "Oesterreich".
                  > > >
                  > > > So you have not narrowed it down to a village, but
                  > > > just the country.
                  > > > This can still include Austria, or Austrian Galicia
                  > > > which is now part
                  > > > of Poland & Ukraine. By some careless uses it can
                  > > > also be meant to
                  > > > include Hungary or Slovakia.
                  > > >
                  > > > To make sure, look up Jewish gen on the web and try
                  > > > their
                  > > > stettleseeker, which works phonetically.
                  > > >
                  > > > Good luck. Do you have any other hints, or even
                  > > > words that might
                  > > > give us a hint as to which dialect they spoke?
                  > > >
                  > > > Ron
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "jjeanann2000"
                  > > > <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hi i just found out that my grandmother may have
                  > > > come from a town
                  > > > or
                  > > > > village by a name that sounds like Estrarich in
                  > > > Austria. Any help
                  > > > > would be great. thanks Jean
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > __________________________________
                  > > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
                  > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
                  to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                • Vladimir Bohinc
                  Dear Frank, Nista, nista. Sve je u redu.:-) Vladimir ... From: Frank To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:58 PM Subject: [S-R]
                  Message 8 of 18 , Dec 5, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Dear Frank,
                    Nista, nista. Sve je u redu.:-)
                    Vladimir

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Frank
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:58 PM
                    Subject: [S-R] Re: a town



                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Vladimir Bohinc" <konekta@n...>
                    wrote:
                    > Sremska Mitrovica is located right in the middle of Srem, which is a
                    geaographical area right west of Belgrade.
                    > It never was located in Slavonia, which is another geagraphical
                    area, more West.
                    > It is located on Sava river, but not on Danube river. There is
                    Fruska gora mountain between those two rivers. At the same distance
                    from Belgrade, a capital of Vojvodina, Novi Sad , is located on
                    Danube.
                    > Right next to Sremska Mitrovica, on the left side, is a small town
                    of Lacarak.
                    > This is Serbia now.
                    > Vladimir

                    Dear Vladimir,
                    mea culpa

                    prepác^te (Sk)
                    tut mir leid (G)
                    z^ao mi je (Cr)
                    z^al mi je (Sl)

                    I should have written
                    DONAUSCHWABEN TOWN NAMES LOCATED IN SYRMIA

                    i.e., Syrmisch-Mitrowitz, Mitrowitz/Sremska' Mitrovica, Mitrowica,
                    Mitrovicza/Hrvatska Mitrovica

                    History of the Region

                    " In Antiquity the municipality of Sirmium (today Syrmisch-Mitrowitz)
                    was the capital of the Roman province of Lower Pannonia.
                    This name was later to be applied to the entire surrounding region.
                    It was first settled by Germans during the Carolingian period
                    and again later under the first kings of Hungary, the Arpads.
                    The mountain range known as the Frankengebirge (or Fruska Gora)
                    recalls the Frankish title to this territory.

                    An Eastern Orthodox Metropolitan had his seat at Sremski Karlovci.
                    After 1557, the Serbian Patriarch at Pec (Ipek) had jurisdiction
                    over this.

                    After 1526, the region fell to the Ottoman Empire, many of
                    the previous inhabitants fleeing before them.

                    With the conquests by the Habsburg Empire under Emperor Leopold I,
                    the Turks were expelled in 1687. A peace treaty signed at Sremski
                    Karlovci (Karlowitz) in 1699 confirmed this.
                    The rest of Syrmia, the southeast portion, was added at the Peace of
                    Pozarevac (Passarowitz) in 1718. As the region was now significantly
                    depopulated, the Habsburg authorities encouraged emigration from
                    other parts of their Empire; thus did Syrmia become part of the
                    Danube-Swabian migration with the first German settlers going to
                    Semlin.

                    Emperor Leopold I first rewarded the Italian Odescalchi with Syrmia;
                    later it came to the Albani. Following the peace treaty of
                    Belgrade in 1739, German craftsmen and merchants settled in
                    Peterwardein (Schwabendörfel, Mayerhof), Karlowitz (Deutsche Gasse),
                    Mitrowitz and Vukovar. In 1745 the district of Syrmia
                    was established with capital at Wukowar; its first governor was Baron
                    Pejacevic (Pejatschewitsch) who in 1746 settled the first Germans on
                    his property at Ruma. In the same year 10 to 30 kilometer-wide
                    strips of formerly military territory along southern Syrmia were
                    integrated into its territory.
                    Previously this area had been directly administered by the Court
                    Chamber (Hofkammer) in Vienna. The remainder belonged to
                    various local nobles. In 1777, Friedrich Wilhelm (von) Taube, servant
                    to the Court Chamber, secretly reported on Syrmia to
                    the effect that due to the Turkish wars the land had become a
                    wilderness and that the first immigrants had fallen victim to
                    epidemics.

                    Some founding dates (according to: Günter Schödl, Land an der
                    Donau):
                    1770: Stara Pasova (founded for Protestant Slovaks)
                    1783: Neu-Slankamen (in the Military Border region, founded by
                    Germans among others)
                    1787: suburb of Semlin (like Neu-Slankamen)
                    1790: about 600 Protestant families from southwest Germany, via Ulm,
                    went to Peterwardein 1790-1820: re-establishment of German communities
                    in the Military Border region; the first was:
                    1791: Neu-Pasua (founded by 62 of the 600 families who had left from
                    Ulm in 1790); Neu Banovci saw the arrival of more Germans and was
                    almost fully German as of 1870.
                    post 1800: The daughter settlement of Sotin whose inhabitants came
                    from Neudorf, just across the Danube.
                    1817: Neudorf by Vinkovci (founded for Protestant Germans)
                    In the course of the 19th century -- in particular in the years 1820
                    to 1850 -- settlements, particularly Opatovac, Lowas,Jarmina, Berak,
                    Tompojevci, Tovarnik, Ilaca, Svinjarevci, Babska Nova and Orolik were
                    strengthened by the influx of or establishments from daughter
                    settlements in the Batschka. While this last group of settlements was
                    all Roman Catholic, 1859
                    saw the start of another influx of Evangelical Lutheran settlers, this
                    time into Sidski Banovci, Neu-Jankowzi, Beschka, Bingula,
                    Krcedin and others.

                    1867 saw the division of the the Austro-Hungarian Dual Monarchy into a
                    western, Austrian and an eastern, Hungarian half, the latter of which
                    included Syrmia. The aftermath saw a strong magyarization effort.

                    Syrmia remained in the Austrian Empire and then the Kingdom of Hungary
                    component of Austro-Hungarian Empire until the end of the First World
                    War. At this time most of Syrmia apart from the extreme eastern
                    portion joined the new nation of Yugoslavia as part of the Treaty of
                    Trianon (June 4, 1920) to become part of the Vojvodina autonomous
                    region of the Serbian Republic.
                    Administratively, it was part of the larger eastern section
                    called Danube Banschaft, with a smaller western section
                    belonging to the Save Banschaft. There was a strong slavicization
                    effort, with which the Donauschwaben in Syrmia accommodated themselves
                    well.

                    Even though the region was not absorbed back into Hungary during
                    the years 1941-44 as other neighboring regions were Syrmia was not
                    spared the cruel fate that most Donauschwaben regions experienced
                    during and following the Second World War. Following it, Syrmia was
                    again part of the Vojvodina within the Serbian part of the Yugoslavian
                    Republic. "

                    Frank K







                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Frank
                    > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 11:55 PM
                    > Subject: [S-R] Re: a town
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jeanann Jameson
                    > <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
                    > > hi ron, thanks for getting back to me. i was hoping it
                    > > meant a town. the only town my mother remembers my
                    > > grandmother speaking is and excuse the spelling
                    > > Lacarac and Mitcovit and i believe bill once told me
                    > > those towns were what is now near belgrade. my
                    > > grandparents spoke german, hungarian, polish, and
                    > > slovick they were catholic so i'm still in the dark
                    > > about everything. but thanks for getting back to me.
                    > > maybe back then it was all called austria. thanks
                    > > again jean
                    >
                    > Jean
                    > hi
                    > tag (G)
                    > czesc (P)
                    > ahoj (Sk)
                    > zdravo (Cr)
                    >
                    > Sremská Mitrovica (Croatian)
                    > Mitróvicza (Hungarian)
                    > Mitrowitz (German)
                    > Sirmium (Latin)
                    >
                    > Sremská Mitrovica was a stop located on the Danube and Sava rivers
                    on
                    > the mission of brothers Cyril and Methodius to convert Greater
                    > Moravia to Christianity in 863 AD.
                    > Supposedly the Slovaks, Czechs, and Carpatho-Rusyns were already
                    > established in Greater Moravia.
                    >
                    > Sremská Mitrovica is located in Serbia today, but it was located
                    in
                    > Slavonia before WW I in Szerém megye (county), Hungary.
                    > Syrmia (E)
                    > Srem (Cr)
                    > Syrmien (G)
                    >
                    > Was your GM's husband a Andreas Rak ?
                    > What about a Andrea Rak, age 28, Hungarian-Croatian, married, who
                    had
                    > emigrated in 1906 via port of Trieste to his brother-in-law in
                    > Steelton,PA.
                    > Andrea's Last Residence was Lacarak, i.e., Lac'arak (Srbija)
                    >
                    > Andrew (E)
                    > Andreas (G) (L)
                    > András (H)
                    > Andrea (I)
                    > Andreja (Cr)
                    >
                    > Steelton PA
                    > When the steel mill was erected, the stretch of land was named
                    Steel
                    > City; that name eventually evolved into the proper title,
                    Steelton.:
                    > "tons of steel."
                    > Before the works were built in 1866, the undeveloped land housed
                    only
                    > six families.
                    > In the heyday of the steel industry, it was had over 16,000
                    residents,
                    > representing 33 different ethnic groups. With increasing
                    > deindustrialization and the closing down of many of the steel
                    mill 's
                    > operations, the population declined to 5,162 people.
                    >
                    > v
                    > Frank Kurcina
                    >
                    >
                    > > --- amiak27 <rmat@p...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Jean,
                    > > >
                    > > > I am sorry to be the one to disappoint you, but my
                    > > > immediate guess is
                    > > > that "Estrarich" is really "Österreich", which is
                    > > > what the Austrians
                    > > > call their own country, Austria. This can also be
                    > > > spelled "Oesterreich".
                    > > >
                    > > > So you have not narrowed it down to a village, but
                    > > > just the country.
                    > > > This can still include Austria, or Austrian Galicia
                    > > > which is now part
                    > > > of Poland & Ukraine. By some careless uses it can
                    > > > also be meant to
                    > > > include Hungary or Slovakia.
                    > > >
                    > > > To make sure, look up Jewish gen on the web and try
                    > > > their
                    > > > stettleseeker, which works phonetically.
                    > > >
                    > > > Good luck. Do you have any other hints, or even
                    > > > words that might
                    > > > give us a hint as to which dialect they spoke?
                    > > >
                    > > > Ron
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "jjeanann2000"
                    > > > <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hi i just found out that my grandmother may have
                    > > > come from a town
                    > > > or
                    > > > > village by a name that sounds like Estrarich in
                    > > > Austria. Any help
                    > > > > would be great. thanks Jean
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > __________________________________
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                    > > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • krisstrot@aol.com
                    In a message dated 12/5/2004 7:59:52 AM Central Standard Time, ... portion joined the new nation of Yugoslavia as part of the Treaty of Trianon (June 4, 1920)
                    Message 9 of 18 , Dec 5, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      In a message dated 12/5/2004 7:59:52 AM Central Standard Time,
                      frankur@... writes:

                      >>At this time most of Syrmia apart from the extreme eastern
                      portion joined the new nation of Yugoslavia as part of the Treaty of
                      Trianon (June 4, 1920) to become part of the Vojvodina autonomous
                      region of the Serbian Republic. <<

                      Hi, Frank ... Interesting that you mention Vojvodina and Donauschwaben towns.
                      I hadn't thought to mention this part of my family history here (instead,
                      concentrating on my Grandfather's family in the Szepes area), but I guess my
                      Grandmother also qualifies for Slovak-Roots. My Grandmother (born Christina
                      Scharf) was also a German, who lived in a German town, who spoke German and
                      considered herself a German, but who happened to be a citizen of Hungary because she
                      lived in the Vojvodina area of what is now the Serbian Republic. Her town
                      was Crvenka (aka Cservenka or Tscherwenka) and she was a Donauschwaben. I have
                      had little luck finding birth, marriage and death records from this town, and
                      have come to understand they were lost after WWII. What information I have
                      been able to find (Angela Hefner at
                      http://www.genealogienetz.de/vereine/AKdFF/CDROM-e.htm) hasn't helped much (except to show her father's original ancestral
                      connection to the village at its founding in 1785). I wonder if there are
                      civil records available, and if this area is part of the 1869 Hungarian census.
                      Anyone know?
                      Kris


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Frank
                      ... Donauschwaben towns. ... (instead, ... guess my ... Christina ... German and ... Hungary because she ... Her town ... Donauschwaben. I have ... town, and
                      Message 10 of 18 , Dec 7, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, krisstrot@a... wrote:
                        > In a message dated 12/5/2004 7:59:52 AM Central Standard Time,
                        > frankur@w... writes:
                        >
                        > >>At this time most of Syrmia apart from the extreme eastern
                        > portion joined the new nation of Yugoslavia as part of the Treaty of
                        > Trianon (June 4, 1920) to become part of the Vojvodina autonomous
                        > region of the Serbian Republic. <<
                        >
                        > Hi, Frank ... Interesting that you mention Vojvodina and
                        Donauschwaben towns.
                        > I hadn't thought to mention this part of my family history here
                        (instead,
                        > concentrating on my Grandfather's family in the Szepes area), but I
                        guess my
                        > Grandmother also qualifies for Slovak-Roots. My Grandmother (born
                        Christina
                        > Scharf) was also a German, who lived in a German town, who spoke
                        German and
                        > considered herself a German, but who happened to be a citizen of
                        Hungary because she
                        > lived in the Vojvodina area of what is now the Serbian Republic.
                        Her town
                        > was Crvenka (aka Cservenka or Tscherwenka) and she was a
                        Donauschwaben. I have
                        > had little luck finding birth, marriage and death records from this
                        town, and
                        > have come to understand they were lost after WWII. What information
                        I have
                        > been able to find (Angela Hefner at
                        > http://www.genealogienetz.de/vereine/AKdFF/CDROM-e.htm) hasn't
                        helped much (except to show her father's original ancestral
                        > connection to the village at its founding in 1785). I wonder if
                        there are
                        > civil records available, and if this area is part of the 1869
                        Hungarian census.
                        > Anyone know?
                        > Kris

                        Kris

                        Only one census, Cservenka in 1828.

                        All that exists of former Yugoslavia now is Serbia and Montenegro -
                        a single republic.

                        The six republics that had formed the former Yugoslavia were : Bosnia
                        and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Slovenia, and Serbia.
                        Wars were fought in 1990s and Croatia, Slovenia, and Bosnia became
                        independent.


                        Cservenka

                        Village Names:

                        German: Tscherwenka, Rotweil
                        Official: Crvenka
                        Hungarian: Cservenka
                        Spelling and/or dialect variants: Cervenka, Rot

                        Location:

                        Country: Yugoslavia
                        near Kula (four Kulas
                        in Serbia ?)


                        Population:

                        1921: 8,851 (6,850)
                        1910: 7,674 (6,861)
                        1880: 7,025 (6,268)

                        Genealogical Records:

                        Village name in FHL records:
                        Church records available at FHL:
                        FHL Microfilm Nr.:
                        FHL Census Microfilm: Cservenka in 1828: # 622964

                        Miscellaneous:

                        Bibliography (only in German)
                        Earliest Appearance in History: 1543
                        Earliest German Settlement: 1784
                        Churches: Evangelical Lutheran/Banya diocese, Reformed/Dunamellek
                        diocese
                        District: 8 - Kula
                        Some settlers of this town continued migration eastward to Russia
                        as documented in Karl Stumpp's The Emigration from Germany to
                        Russia (AHSGR)
                        History of Cservenka (in Serbian)

                        http://solair.eunet.yu/%7Emarjanj/crvenka.html


                        Frank K
                      • Jeanann Jameson
                        hi noreen sorry this took so long to answer you but my computer has been broke. i have no clues about the villages my grandparents lived in other than they
                        Message 11 of 18 , Dec 24, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          hi noreen sorry this took so long to answer you but my
                          computer has been broke. i have no clues about the
                          villages my grandparents lived in other than they
                          talked about lacarak and mitchovich i'm thinking they
                          lived at one time in both villages. their parents were
                          farmers and there farms were right next to each other.
                          here in the u.s. when friends or relatives would come
                          over the adults would speek slovak so the kids
                          couldn't understand what they were speaking about but
                          normally they spoke german. my grandfather spoke seven
                          languages and my grandmother spoke 4. being on a farm
                          i have no idea why. well thanks for your help and have
                          a nice holiday. jean
                          --- nhasior@... wrote:

                          > Hi Jean,
                          > my grandmother also spoke German, Polish, Slovak and
                          > Polish. She came from
                          > what was then the Austrio-Hungarian Empire. Today,
                          > her particular village was
                          > in the Eastern part of Slovakia near the town of
                          > Poprad. it is a spa and
                          > mineral water healing area of Slovakia and the
                          > reason that so many languages were
                          > learned is that many of the townspeople worked at
                          > the spas. many people of
                          > foreign countries such as Germany, would come and
                          > stay for spa treatments for
                          > ailments.
                          > what else do you know about the place? Belgrade is
                          > very far away, but maybe
                          > this will help give you another clue as to why all
                          > the languages.
                          > Noreen
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                          > removed]
                          >
                          >




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                        • johnqadam
                          Lacarak is 47.1 miles WNW of Belgrade and Sremska Mitrovica is the adjacent village. To locate places in Europe, especially if you are not sure of the proper
                          Message 12 of 18 , Dec 24, 2004
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Lacarak is 47.1 miles WNW of Belgrade and Sremska Mitrovica is the
                            adjacent village.

                            To locate places in Europe, especially if you are not sure of the
                            proper spelling of the place name, the best reference is found at
                            http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm

                            ShtelSeeker will take you there via Mapquest.
                          • Frank
                            ... 24 Dec 2003 jean wrote ... 2 Aug 2003 ... 9 Nov 2003 ... Over 51 million people lived in the former Austro-Hungarian Empire. The two largest ethnic groups
                            Message 13 of 18 , Dec 25, 2004
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jeanann Jameson
                              <jjeanann2000@y...> wrote:
                              > hi noreen sorry this took so long to answer you but my
                              > computer has been broke. i have no clues about the
                              > villages my grandparents lived in other than they
                              > talked about lacarak and mitchovich i'm thinking they
                              > lived at one time in both villages. their parents were
                              > farmers and there farms were right next to each other.
                              > here in the u.s. when friends or relatives would come
                              > over the adults would speek slovak so the kids
                              > couldn't understand what they were speaking about but
                              > normally they spoke german. my grandfather spoke seven
                              > languages and my grandmother spoke 4. being on a farm
                              > i have no idea why. well thanks for your help and have
                              > a nice holiday. jean

                              24 Dec 2003

                              jean wrote

                              > I have no clues about the villages my grandparents lived other than
                              > they talked about Lacark and Mitchovich

                              > the adults would speak Slovak so the kids couldn't understand what
                              > they were speaking about but normally they spoke German.

                              > my grandfather spoke seven languages and my grandmother spoke 4


                              2 Aug 2003

                              > my grandfather was Andres Rak. I have been told they are from
                              > Austria, Czech, Poland, Yugoslavia at this point don't know
                              > some of towns my mother has mentioned are lacark, mikitovich,
                              > macvenska, and hesse

                              > My older brother says my grandfather Andras Rak is from Lacarak,
                              > Hungary and my grandmother is from Mitrovica Austria and they were
                              > only a few miles apart

                              9 Nov 2003

                              > my great grandmother was Froni (Veronica) Stranc married Stefan
                              > Yellenburger
                              > no dates or information on either of them
                              > her children were names Annie and Magdalena. Magdalena is my
                              > grandmother who was born in 1884.
                              > My grandmother has mentioned before she died the Danube River,
                              > Sabe River, Lakarak, and a town that had two names in it something
                              > like Mitovicha-Manscha


                              Over 51 million people lived in the former Austro-Hungarian Empire.
                              The two largest ethnic groups were Germans (10 million) and Hungarians
                              (9 million). There were also Poles, Croats, Bosnians,
                              Serbians,Italians,
                              Czechs, Ruthenes, Slovenes, Slovaks and Romanians.
                              Overall, fifteen different languages were spoken in the former
                              Austro-Hungarian Empire.

                              Lacarak is located 47 miles NNW of Belgrade (Beograd) Serbia and
                              Sremska Mitrovica is an adjacent village.
                              Macvanska Mitrovica is located 45 miles NNW of Belgrade.
                              The Sava River is located close by.

                              Hesse is a region (province) located in SW Germany.
                              During WW II American troops "liberated" Hesse from the Germans.

                              Many if not all Donauschwaben (Danube Germans) had barged down
                              the Donau (Danube) River during the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries.
                              These migrants often set out from the cities of Ulm or Günzburg,
                              Schwaben (Swabia), Germany, along the Danube River or on it via
                              the famous "Ulmer Schachtel" (Ulm Crates or barges), hence the name,
                              Donauschwaben.
                              Some migrated from modern Baden-Württemberg, Alsace, and Lorraine.
                              Others hailed from Austria and other places in the Austro-Hungarian
                              Empire. Hence germane (pertinent to the former AHE)

                              According to the Treaty of Trianon (June 4, 1920), Hungary lost
                              two-thirds of its former territory to Czechoslovakia (Slovakia,
                              Carpathian Rus'), Romania (Transylvania, * Banat), Yugoslavia
                              (Croatia, Slavonia, Syrmia, Bac^ka, western Banat), and Austria
                              (Burgenland)
                              Germans (Donauschwaben) lived in the Area of Syrmien County the
                              Batschka and the Banat. (Also Hungary)
                              Szerém (H) Syrmia (E) Syrmien (G) Srem (Cr)

                              The six republics that formed the former Yugoslavia were :
                              Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Slovenia,
                              and Serbia.

                              In 1945 the Communist Yugoslavs had expelled all the Donauschwaben
                              from the country.
                              Following the breakup of the former Federal Republic of Yugoslavia in
                              1991, Slovenija became a separate republic as did Croatia
                              (Croatia-Slavonia)
                              A war was fought in former Yugoslavia in 1990s between Croatian and
                              Serbian forces.
                              NATO and US forces had bombed Serbia.
                              Croatia , Bosnia, and Slovenia gained their independence.
                              All that remains of Yugoslavia today is Serbia and its tiny partner
                              Montenegro (Crna Gora)

                              According to online EIR.
                              In 1908 an Andreas Rak, age 28 (b. about 1880), married, German, born
                              in Lacsarak (a Hungarian spelling), had emigrated to his brother's
                              Peter Rak address in Detroit MI.
                              András (H) Andrej (Sk) Andrew (E) Andreas (G)(L)
                              Andrew had been in Detroit before and was a Non-Immigrant Alien (i.e.,
                              he hadn't settled permanently in the USA)
                              His closest next of kin was his mother Katharina Rak (assume she was
                              back in Lacarak, then still in Hungary)
                              So his wife may have resided either in Detroit or in Lacarak ?

                              v
                              Frank Kurcina
                            • nhasior@aol.com
                              Hi Jean, according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak, exact spelling, is in Serbia. have you found Mitchovich ? Noreen [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
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                                Hi Jean,
                                according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak, exact spelling, is in Serbia.
                                have you found Mitchovich ?
                                Noreen


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • johnqadam
                                Look at according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak is in Serbia. and you will see Mitchovich next door.
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
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                                  Look at "according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak is in Serbia." and you
                                  will see "Mitchovich" next door.

                                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, nhasior@a... wrote:
                                  > Hi Jean,
                                  > according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak, exact spelling, is in Serbia.
                                  > have you found Mitchovich ?
                                  > Noreen
                                • Jeanann Jameson
                                  thanks for your help. happy new year jean ... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. Learn more.
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
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                                    thanks for your help. happy new year jean
                                    --- johnqadam <johnqadam@...> wrote:

                                    >
                                    > Look at "according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak is in
                                    > Serbia." and you
                                    > will see "Mitchovich" next door.
                                    >
                                    > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, nhasior@a...
                                    > wrote:
                                    > > Hi Jean,
                                    > > according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak, exact
                                    > spelling, is in Serbia.
                                    > > have you found Mitchovich ?
                                    > > Noreen
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >




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                                  • Jeanann Jameson
                                    hi and happy new year. i believe they are close to each other but someone said there was a mountain between the two towns. i found out my grandparents lived
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
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                                      hi and happy new year. i believe they are close to
                                      each other but someone said there was a mountain
                                      between the two towns. i found out my grandparents
                                      lived in both towns. i still can't figure out how to
                                      spell my grandmothers last name. i have tried many
                                      variations for ellis island but can't find anything.
                                      still looking. jean
                                      --- nhasior@... wrote:

                                      > Hi Jean,
                                      > according to Shtetlseeker, Lacarak, exact spelling,
                                      > is in Serbia.
                                      > have you found Mitchovich ?
                                      > Noreen
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                      > removed]
                                      >
                                      >




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