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Re: [S-R] Re: Will the history repeat--No it won't

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  • treimer@nycap.rr.com
    Of course, I meant descendants in 100,000 years, not ancestors. Thomas ... From: treimer@nycap.rr.com Date: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 11:28 am Subject: Re:
    Message 1 of 2 , Oct 26, 2004
      Of course, I meant descendants in 100,000 years, not ancestors.

      Thomas

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: treimer@...
      Date: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 11:28 am
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Will the history repeat--No it won't

      >
      > True, humans do not change (at least not quickly--who knows how
      > our ancestors will be in 100,000 years).
      >
      > In the meantime, Tiso's role is discussed without the restrictions
      > of postwar Beneshist and Communist propaganda. And that's good. I
      > don't think there will ever be one single opinion about that era,
      > and in a free society there is no need for such a dogma. So a
      > certain correction of postwar brainwashing is happening, and why
      > not? Whatever people think of Tiso, even a full rehabilitation
      > would not change anything in the social life of today's Slovak
      > Republic, or threaten anyone.
      >
      > My mother and aunts were still in Slovakia, too, during the War
      > and they all have a good opinion of Tiso. He was not Superman, of
      > course--but the bad events that happened were not of his chosing.
      > For crimes, you could have hung Benes a hundred times instead.
      >
      > Thomas
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@...>
      > Date: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 10:04 am
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Will the history repeat
      >
      > >
      > > Dear Frank,
      > > I agree with you.
      > > In the past years I bought several books that want to whitewash
      > > Tiso.I was aware, that the Catholic church is trying to
      > > rehabilitate him. But I did not expect Slovakia to be as fertile
      > > land as it shows now for this kind of organisations. Black color
      > > means no good.
      > > And, it is all legal and democratic. So was Hitler. Meaning,
      > > democracy is no warrant for peace per se.
      > > Tiso probably did save Slovakia from greater catastrophy, but
      > the
      > > moral price was too high. Pavelic in Croatia was his
      > counterpart.
      > > he did not save anything, because the folks went into a partisan
      > > guerilla war. Same in Slovenia.
      > > Beatification of Carl is a joke. Beyond my understanding. The
      > > church also wants it's share of power over the simple folks.
      > > So as it always used to be. One day I will write about how the
      > > Slovaks were exploited by the Catholic church.
      > > Whoever thinks, there is a straight forward recipe for any folks
      > > to live in peace and prosperity is mistaking.
      > > People never changed in the whole history and there always have
      > > been wars and atrocities and this is what we can also expect
      > from
      > > the future. Times here, times there.
      > > Regards,
      > > Vladimir
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: Frank
      > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 2:28 PM
      > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Will the history repeat
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joe Mrnka <jmrnka@y...> wrote:
      > > > Vladimir,
      > > >
      > > > It has been traditionaly accepted, in some circles on the
      > > American
      > > side
      > > > of the Atlantic that Tiso was martyred for the cause of
      > > Slovakia.
      > > There
      > > > was also a move in the church on this side of the pond to
      > > canonize
      > > him.
      > > > I don't hold that opinion, because of the stories my mother
      > > recalled
      > > to
      > > > us kids while she was growing up during WWII.
      > > >
      > > > Does it surprise me? No. Unfortunately it's the kind of world
      > > we
      > > live
      > > > in. Just as it wouldn't surprise me that these efforts are
      > > supported
      > > in
      > > > certain communities on this side of the Atlantic.
      > > >
      > > > There does need to be a better effort to educate people on
      > > what Tiso
      > > > did or could have done. Dispelling romantic notions takes
      > time and
      > > > effort.
      > > >
      > > > Joe
      > >
      > > Joe,
      > >
      > > As another subscriber had written to Vladimir :
      > >
      > > > Tiso was a good man, with flaws, obviously, like we all,
      > > especially
      > > in > difficult times. It's time to end the witchhunts.
      > > > Thomas
      > >
      > > There is now an attempt now in Slovakia and elsewhere to
      > > rehabilitate
      > > the "good" name of Mgr. Joseph Tiso and others.
      > > And some researchers are studying the roles of the Vatican and the
      > > Croatian Utashi and their dealings with Jews during WW II.
      > > Another witchhunt ?
      > > I suppose in Slovakia better a Slovak Nazi rather than a
      > > Communist(Red) Czech.
      > >
      > > And was Adolf Hitler also a good man, with flaws, obviously,
      > > like we
      > > all, especially in difficult times ?
      > >
      > > And since the Soviet Communists had killed Carpathian Germans
      > > post-WW
      > > II expect that Joseph Stalin (Vissarionovich Djugashvili) was the
      > > "Greater Satan".
      > >
      > > In 2001 the Pope had performed beautification for sainthood of
      > > 28
      > > Ukrainians who suffered from Soviet and Nazi oppression
      > >
      > > Incidentlly, in 1916 the Austrian Archduke Karl (Charles)
      > > inherited
      > > the throne of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
      > > On November 11, 1918 (Armistice Day), Karl was obliged to
      > > renounce the
      > > Austrian throne; however, he never abdicated, only relinquished
      > > power.
      > > After Austria rejected him, he planned to reign as king of Hungary.
      > > But, Karl von Hapsburg (1887-1922) Emperor and King died in
      > > exile
      > > (1922) after Austria had ousted him.
      > > Recently the Pope has "beautified" Emperor Karl so he will soon
      > > be a
      > > Catholic Saint for his Catholic attributes !
      > >
      > > I can write about "ethnic cleansing" and genocide, too, only
      > the
      > > name
      > > of the country changes.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > http://artemis.austincollege.edu/acad/history/htooley/EthnicCleansingC onf.html
      > >
      > > v
      > > Frank Kurcina
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