Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [S-R] Slovak Family Traditions

Expand Messages
  • William F Brna
    I well remember the days when the men and women sat on opposite sides of the church. The women (and children) sat on the left, facing the Blessed Virgin s
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 3, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      I well remember the days when the men and women sat on opposite sides of
      the church. The women (and children) sat on the left, facing the Blessed
      Virgin's statue , and the men sat on the right, facing St. Joseph's
      statue. This was the custom, not only in the Slovak parish, but in the
      "Irish" parish where our family attended mass, when it was not convenient
      to travel to the Slovak parish (a seven mile trip). I also remember that
      everyone, men and women, dressed in their "Sunday best" when they went to
      mass. Not only did the men wear a suit, white shirt and tie, but they
      also wore hats. I don't know when the custom of sitting on opposite
      sides of the church was abandoned, but, as I recall, it was a gradual
      change.

      Bill Brna

      On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 09:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Jan Ammann
      <janammann@...> writes:
      >
      > Hello Everyone.....I have read this post with great interest. And
      > would like to ask a question about ethnic/religious traditions or
      > customs. My background is Moravian, Austrian-Hungarian, and German.
      > I am catholic and as a child when we went to church as a family,
      > the men all sat on the right hand side and the women and children
      > sat on the left hand side. This would be in the 1940's here in
      > Texas. It then changed throughtout the years but I am not sure of
      > the change date. Of course, my parents and my grandparents and aunts
      > and uncles all spoke Moravian as did we children in those days. My
      > grandmother would always say "Ti se Moravian" (no accent marks as
      > they mess up the email sometimes) when someone would say we were
      > czech or bohemian. She was very firm about this. To her, I suppose,
      > being called something other than Moravian was not proper. We were
      > all raised to be proud of our Moravian heritage. Of course, we all
      > learned english also and by the time we went to school,
      > moravian was ignored by all of us children and the older members of
      > the family only spoke in moravian to each other. We even prayed in
      > Moravian in our country church. We actually switched between latin
      > and Moravian. The Our Father and Hail Mary was always in Moravian.
      >
      > This also was a country parish which was rather small. I can still
      > remember the church with its white beadboard walls.......its
      > beautiful gothic shaped stained windows which opened to the outside
      > (no AC in those days). Sometimes, birds flew across the altar and
      > we even saw mice scattering across the wooden floor at times. The
      > statues were magnificent and they are the very same ones that are in
      > the catholic church (polish community) where I attend today.
      >
      > We had lent.........we had ember days.........so much that is no
      > longer. Of course, Lent is still in the church but the ember days
      > are gone. The mass was in latin as were our prayer books.
      > Also,,,,,when my older sister was married (early 1950's) the priest
      > came to the house in the early morning. My mother draped a white
      > sheet on the walls in one corner of our small living room and my
      > sister, in her wedding dress, and her husband to be, kneeled there,
      > surrounded by the parents, the priest in the corner facing them. He
      > gave a blessing to the couple and to the parents. Then, he went
      > back to the church where we all followed later on. I am supposing
      > that this also came over from the old country. I have never seen
      > this blessing enacted since that day. It, too, has disappeared.
      >
      > So, this post brought back a lot of memories for me. But I do hope
      > someone can comment on the way we sat in the church. I am wondering
      > if this custom did not come over from the old homeland when my
      > family arrived here in the USA. Perhaps the blessing also did.
      >
      > Many thanks to all you members who make this list so interesting.
      >
      > Cheers, Aloysia
      >
      > Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@...> wrote:
      > Dear Bill,
      > here http://www.cgsi.org/
      > I thought, everybody knows that :-)
      > Join!
      > Best regards,
      > Vladimir
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Bill Tarkulich
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 12:45 PM
      > Subject: RE: [S-R] Slovak Family Traditions
      >
      >
      > Hi Vladimir,
      > How and where can we go about obtaining the publications of " Nase
      > Rodina"?
      > It sounds like a good read.
      > Regards,
      > Bill
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Vladimir Bohinc [mailto:konekta@...]
      > Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 2:44 AM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak Family Traditions
      >
      >
      >
      > Dear Janet,
      > I agree with everything, since these are more or less all facts.
      > This is
      > what one could count into Slavic culture. Since were are all
      > Slavs, we have
      > many things in common. Slavs in different cuntries ( in
      > Europe)were
      > naturally under influence of their master nations or neighbors, so
      > you can
      > find this in variations too. Villages or areas, which were awau
      > from trade
      > lines, were less exposed to such influences and kept their old
      > customs
      > longer. Many of the customs go far back into the pagan era, where
      > there was
      > no Christianity. Every village was and to a large extent still is
      > a closed
      > community, often with it's own, unwritten rules. A foreigner, or
      > anyone
      > "different' will have a hard time in it, unless he adopts and
      > subdues. The
      > most feared weapon is gossip. It can kill people softly, or drive
      > them mad.
      > Another weapon is envy.It destroys much of good or new. The book
      > Bill is
      > refering to I bought already a year or two ago. It describes wery
      > much , but
      > I am not very happy with the language. It is too dry, without any
      > spirit or
      > soul. It is evident, that it was written by people, who were
      > educated in the
      > past communist regime, where a person was only a statistical item.
      > The
      > writers do not care much about the reader. I would have writte it
      > differently. I will touch this subject later in my article for
      > Nase Rodina.
      > Regards, Vladimir
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Janet Kozlay
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 4:07 AM
      > Subject: [S-R] Slovak Family Traditions
      >
      >
      > Bill, I would like to thank you for posting your excerpts from
      > "Slovak
      > Family Traditions," which I recall having read from a previous
      > post of
      > yours, as well as the remarkable Grisak autobiography.
      >
      > My own research in this area has led me to conclude that there
      > was a
      > fairly
      > common culture among the peasants throughout Central Europe
      > regardless of
      > their particular ethnicity or language. Nearly everything in
      > your
      > excerpts
      > and in the Grisak work is described in Fél and Hofer's "Proper
      > Peasants,"
      > though they go into much greater detail and in the case of the
      > excerpts
      > are
      > far more readable. Their book, based on an intensive study of a
      > single
      > village on the Hungarian Plain, is widely available and fairly
      > inexpensive.
      > Descriptions I have read of the culture of Germans who migrated
      > to Hungary
      > also do not appear to differ materially. I suspect the same is
      > true of
      > the
      > peasant culture of surrounding regions. One would expect some
      > variations
      > from area to area, and even village to village, but in my view
      > the
      > commonality of the customs and traditions is far more striking.
      > Just one
      > example is the custom of men sleeping in the stables, while the
      > women and
      > children slept in the house. Others include the courtship
      > rituals of
      > young
      > men, the violence that often occurred when a young man courted a
      > girl out
      > of
      > his community, the tradition of young men drinking and dancing
      > till the
      > wee
      > hours until they married and settled down, and the pathetic
      > position of
      > daughters-in-law in a household.
      >
      > I am looking forward to Vladimir's contributions and would be
      > very
      > interested in learning if he agrees.
      >
      > Janet
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
      > email to
      > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      > ADVERTISEMENT
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      ---
      > --
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
      >
      > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
      > of Service.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.848 (20040820) __________
      >
      > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
      > http://www.eset.sk
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
      > email to
      > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
      > email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      >
      > Select Your
      >
      State:AlabamaAlaskaArkansasArizonaCaliforniaColoradoConnecticutDelawareFl
      oridaGeorgiaHawaiiIdahoIllinoisIndianaIowaKansasKentuckyLouisianaMaineMar
      ylandMassachusettsMichiganMinnesotaMissippiMissouriMontanaNebraskaNevadaN
      ew
      > HampshireNew MexicoNew JerseyNew YorkNorth CarolinaNorth
      > DakotaOklahomaOhioOregonPennsylvaniaRhode IslandSouth CarolinaSouth
      > DakotaTennesseeTexasUtahVermontVirginiaWashingtonWashington D.C.West
      > VirginiaWisconsinWyoming
      >
      > PurchaseRefinance
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      -----
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
      >
      > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      > Service.
      >
      >
      >
      > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.848 (20040820) __________
      >
      > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
      > http://www.eset.sk
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
      > email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
      > var lrec_target="_top";var lrec_URL = new Array();lrec_URL[1] =
      >
      "http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129jnjss1/M=294150.5475418.6555472.1501134/D
      =groups/S=1705040837:HM/EXP=1096904340/A=2380023/R=0/id=flashurl/SIG=124g
      ll7mf/*http://www.interest.com/includes/server/icom_campaign.asp?id=10720

      > ";var link="javascript:LRECopenWindow(1)";var lrec_flashfile =
      >
      'http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/bo/bon_marketing/300x250_yahoo_em4_1
      00104.swf?clickTAG='+link+'';var
      > lrec_altURL =
      >
      "http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129jnjss1/M=294150.5475418.6555472.1501134/D
      =groups/S=1705040837:HM/EXP=1096904340/A=2380023/R=1/id=altimgurl/SIG=124
      gll7mf/*http://www.interest.com/includes/server/icom_campaign.asp?id=1072
      0
      > ";var lrec_altimg =
      >
      "http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/bo/bon_marketing/300x250_em4_100104.
      jpg";var
      > lrec_width = 300;var lrec_height = 250;
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      > Service.
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      > --------------------~-->
      > Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
      > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
      > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FvNolB/TM
      > --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
      > email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Janet Kozlay
      I found a similar but not identical custom in a description of Ukrainian weddings, where the blessing was given by the couple s parents: “My two sisters and
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 3, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        I found a similar but not identical custom in a description of Ukrainian
        weddings, where the blessing was given by the couple's parents:

        “My two sisters and I were married in the Ukrainian tradition, in a
        Ukrainian Catholic church in Detroit. One of the most poignant traditions is
        the blessings of the parents. The young couple, before the marriage ceremony
        meet at the bride's home to receive a blessing from the parents. They kneel
        before both sets of parents and ask their blessing and permission to marry.
        After the permission is given, the couple's wrists are tied by the parents
        (one arm each) with an embroidered rushnyk. This is when most everyone
        begins to cry...."

        I found a similar description of parents' blessings in the morning in Polish
        weddings.

        A description of Slovak wedding traditions says that on the morning of the
        wedding the bride and groom each, in their own homes, ask forgiveness from
        their parents for any wrongs they may have done them and ask for their
        blessing. This also seems to have been the case in Rusyn weddings.

        I have found no such descriptions of morning blessings, either from a priest
        or from the parents, for Hungarian households.

        There are many wedding traditions that do seem to cross ethnic lines in
        Central European countries, probably the most important of which was the
        trading of the bride's wedding wreath for a married woman's head covering.

        Janet


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Jan Ammann [mailto:janammann@...]
        Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 11:32 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak Family Traditions


        Hello Everyone.....I have read this post with great interest. And would
        like to ask a question about ethnic/religious traditions or customs. My
        background is Moravian, Austrian-Hungarian, and German. I am catholic and
        as a child when we went to church as a family, the men all sat on the right
        hand side and the women and children sat on the left hand side. This would
        be in the 1940's here in Texas. It then changed throughtout the years but I
        am not sure of the change date. Of course, my parents and my grandparents
        and aunts and uncles all spoke Moravian as did we children in those days.
        My grandmother would always say "Ti se Moravian" (no accent marks as they
        mess up the email sometimes) when someone would say we were czech or
        bohemian. She was very firm about this. To her, I suppose, being called
        something other than Moravian was not proper. We were all raised to be
        proud of our Moravian heritage. Of course, we all learned english also and
        by the time we went to school,
        moravian was ignored by all of us children and the older members of the
        family only spoke in moravian to each other. We even prayed in Moravian in
        our country church. We actually switched between latin and Moravian. The
        Our Father and Hail Mary was always in Moravian.

        This also was a country parish which was rather small. I can still remember
        the church with its white beadboard walls.......its beautiful gothic shaped
        stained windows which opened to the outside (no AC in those days).
        Sometimes, birds flew across the altar and we even saw mice scattering
        across the wooden floor at times. The statues were magnificent and they are
        the very same ones that are in the catholic church (polish community) where
        I attend today.

        We had lent.........we had ember days.........so much that is no longer. Of
        course, Lent is still in the church but the ember days are gone. The mass
        was in latin as were our prayer books. Also,,,,,when my older sister was
        married (early 1950's) the priest came to the house in the early morning.
        My mother draped a white sheet on the walls in one corner of our small
        living room and my sister, in her wedding dress, and her husband to be,
        kneeled there, surrounded by the parents, the priest in the corner facing
        them. He gave a blessing to the couple and to the parents. Then, he went
        back to the church where we all followed later on. I am supposing that this
        also came over from the old country. I have never seen this blessing
        enacted since that day. It, too, has disappeared.

        So, this post brought back a lot of memories for me. But I do hope someone
        can comment on the way we sat in the church. I am wondering if this custom
        did not come over from the old homeland when my family arrived here in the
        USA. Perhaps the blessing also did.

        Many thanks to all you members who make this list so interesting.

        Cheers, Aloysia

        Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@...> wrote:
        Dear Bill,
        here http://www.cgsi.org/
        I thought, everybody knows that :-)
        Join!
        Best regards,
        Vladimir
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Bill Tarkulich
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 12:45 PM
        Subject: RE: [S-R] Slovak Family Traditions


        Hi Vladimir,
        How and where can we go about obtaining the publications of " Nase
        Rodina"?
        It sounds like a good read.
        Regards,
        Bill


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Vladimir Bohinc [mailto:konekta@...]
        Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 2:44 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak Family Traditions



        Dear Janet,
        I agree with everything, since these are more or less all facts. This is
        what one could count into Slavic culture. Since were are all Slavs, we
        have
        many things in common. Slavs in different cuntries ( in Europe)were
        naturally under influence of their master nations or neighbors, so you can
        find this in variations too. Villages or areas, which were awau from trade
        lines, were less exposed to such influences and kept their old customs
        longer. Many of the customs go far back into the pagan era, where there
        was
        no Christianity. Every village was and to a large extent still is a closed
        community, often with it's own, unwritten rules. A foreigner, or anyone
        "different' will have a hard time in it, unless he adopts and subdues. The
        most feared weapon is gossip. It can kill people softly, or drive them
        mad.
        Another weapon is envy.It destroys much of good or new. The book Bill is
        refering to I bought already a year or two ago. It describes wery much ,
        but
        I am not very happy with the language. It is too dry, without any spirit
        or
        soul. It is evident, that it was written by people, who were educated in
        the
        past communist regime, where a person was only a statistical item. The
        writers do not care much about the reader. I would have writte it
        differently. I will touch this subject later in my article for Nase
        Rodina.
        Regards, Vladimir


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Janet Kozlay
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 4:07 AM
        Subject: [S-R] Slovak Family Traditions


        Bill, I would like to thank you for posting your excerpts from "Slovak
        Family Traditions," which I recall having read from a previous post of
        yours, as well as the remarkable Grisak autobiography.

        My own research in this area has led me to conclude that there was a
        fairly
        common culture among the peasants throughout Central Europe regardless
        of
        their particular ethnicity or language. Nearly everything in your
        excerpts
        and in the Grisak work is described in Fél and Hofer's "Proper
        Peasants,"
        though they go into much greater detail and in the case of the excerpts
        are
        far more readable. Their book, based on an intensive study of a single
        village on the Hungarian Plain, is widely available and fairly
        inexpensive.
        Descriptions I have read of the culture of Germans who migrated to
        Hungary
        also do not appear to differ materially. I suspect the same is true of
        the
        peasant culture of surrounding regions. One would expect some
        variations
        from area to area, and even village to village, but in my view the
        commonality of the customs and traditions is far more striking. Just
        one
        example is the custom of men sleeping in the stables, while the women
        and
        children slept in the house. Others include the courtship rituals of
        young
        men, the violence that often occurred when a young man courted a girl
        out
        of
        his community, the tradition of young men drinking and dancing till the
        wee
        hours until they married and settled down, and the pathetic position of
        daughters-in-law in a household.

        I am looking forward to Vladimir's contributions and would be very
        interested in learning if he agrees.

        Janet





        To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
        SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        ADVERTISEMENT






        ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        --
        Yahoo! Groups Links

        a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

        b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

        c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        Service.




        __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.848 (20040820) __________

        Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
        http://www.eset.sk


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
        SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        Yahoo! Groups Links











        To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
        SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

        Select Your
        State:AlabamaAlaskaArkansasArizonaCaliforniaColoradoConnecticutDelawareFlori
        daGeorgiaHawaiiIdahoIllinoisIndianaIowaKansasKentuckyLouisianaMaineMarylandM
        assachusettsMichiganMinnesotaMissippiMissouriMontanaNebraskaNevadaNew
        HampshireNew MexicoNew JerseyNew YorkNorth CarolinaNorth
        DakotaOklahomaOhioOregonPennsylvaniaRhode IslandSouth CarolinaSouth
        DakotaTennesseeTexasUtahVermontVirginiaWashingtonWashington D.C.West
        VirginiaWisconsinWyoming

        PurchaseRefinance






        ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        --
        Yahoo! Groups Links

        a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

        b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

        c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




        __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.848 (20040820) __________

        Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
        http://www.eset.sk


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
        SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


        Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
        var lrec_target="_top";var lrec_URL = new Array();lrec_URL[1] =
        "http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129jnjss1/M=294150.5475418.6555472.1501134/D=gr
        oups/S=1705040837:HM/EXP=1096904340/A=2380023/R=0/id=flashurl/SIG=124gll7mf/
        *http://www.interest.com/includes/server/icom_campaign.asp?id=10720 ";var
        link="javascript:LRECopenWindow(1)";var lrec_flashfile =
        'http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/bo/bon_marketing/300x250_yahoo_em4_1001
        04.swf?clickTAG='+link+'';var lrec_altURL =
        "http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129jnjss1/M=294150.5475418.6555472.1501134/D=gr
        oups/S=1705040837:HM/EXP=1096904340/A=2380023/R=1/id=altimgurl/SIG=124gll7mf
        /*http://www.interest.com/includes/server/icom_campaign.asp?id=10720 ";var
        lrec_altimg =
        "http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/bo/bon_marketing/300x250_em4_100104.jpg
        ";var lrec_width = 300;var lrec_height = 250;

        ---------------------------------
        Yahoo! Groups Links

        To visit your group on the web, go to:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
        SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • nhasior@aol.com
        I remember ember days in the past but cannot recall exactly what they were. Noreen [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 3, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          I remember ember days in the past but cannot recall exactly what they were.
          Noreen


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jan Ammann
          Hello......I do remember part of what happened during the blessing for my sister and her future husband. It was for the parents to give permission for their
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 3, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello......I do remember part of what happened during the blessing for my sister and her future husband. It was for the parents to give permission for their children to marry. My sister and her bridegroom kneeled on the floor in front of the priest. My parents stood behind my sister and and the priest asked if they give permission for this couple to wed. Of course, they said yes. Then they asked the same of the bridgrooms parents. Then there were some prayers.

            Of course, my future brother-in-law saw my sister in her wedding dress but I guess traditions were different back then.

            Aloysia

            Janet Kozlay <kozlay@...> wrote:
            I found a similar but not identical custom in a description of Ukrainian
            weddings, where the blessing was given by the couple's parents:

            �My two sisters and I were married in the Ukrainian tradition, in a
            Ukrainian Catholic church in Detroit. One of the most poignant traditions is
            the blessings of the parents. The young couple, before the marriage ceremony
            meet at the bride's home to receive a blessing from the parents. They kneel
            before both sets of parents and ask their blessing and permission to marry.
            After the permission is given, the couple's wrists are tied by the parents
            (one arm each) with an embroidered rushnyk. This is when most everyone
            begins to cry...."

            I found a similar description of parents' blessings in the morning in Polish
            weddings.

            A description of Slovak wedding traditions says that on the morning of the
            wedding the bride and groom each, in their own homes, ask forgiveness from
            their parents for any wrongs they may have done them and ask for their
            blessing. This also seems to have been the case in Rusyn weddings.

            I have found no such descriptions of morning blessings, either from a priest
            or from the parents, for Hungarian households.

            There are many wedding traditions that do seem to cross ethnic lines in
            Central European countries, probably the most important of which was the
            trading of the bride's wedding wreath for a married woman's head covering.

            Janet


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Jan Ammann [mailto:janammann@...]
            Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 11:32 AM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak Family Traditions


            Hello Everyone.....I have read this post with great interest. And would
            like to ask a question about ethnic/religious traditions or customs. My
            background is Moravian, Austrian-Hungarian, and German. I am catholic and
            as a child when we went to church as a family, the men all sat on the right
            hand side and the women and children sat on the left hand side. This would
            be in the 1940's here in Texas. It then changed throughtout the years but I
            am not sure of the change date. Of course, my parents and my grandparents
            and aunts and uncles all spoke Moravian as did we children in those days.
            My grandmother would always say "Ti se Moravian" (no accent marks as they
            mess up the email sometimes) when someone would say we were czech or
            bohemian. She was very firm about this. To her, I suppose, being called
            something other than Moravian was not proper. We were all raised to be
            proud of our Moravian heritage. Of course, we all learned english also and
            by the time we went to school,
            moravian was ignored by all of us children and the older members of the
            family only spoke in moravian to each other. We even prayed in Moravian in
            our country church. We actually switched between latin and Moravian. The
            Our Father and Hail Mary was always in Moravian.

            This also was a country parish which was rather small. I can still remember
            the church with its white beadboard walls.......its beautiful gothic shaped
            stained windows which opened to the outside (no AC in those days).
            Sometimes, birds flew across the altar and we even saw mice scattering
            across the wooden floor at times. The statues were magnificent and they are
            the very same ones that are in the catholic church (polish community) where
            I attend today.

            We had lent.........we had ember days.........so much that is no longer. Of
            course, Lent is still in the church but the ember days are gone. The mass
            was in latin as were our prayer books. Also,,,,,when my older sister was
            married (early 1950's) the priest came to the house in the early morning.
            My mother draped a white sheet on the walls in one corner of our small
            living room and my sister, in her wedding dress, and her husband to be,
            kneeled there, surrounded by the parents, the priest in the corner facing
            them. He gave a blessing to the couple and to the parents. Then, he went
            back to the church where we all followed later on. I am supposing that this
            also came over from the old country. I have never seen this blessing
            enacted since that day. It, too, has disappeared.

            So, this post brought back a lot of memories for me. But I do hope someone
            can comment on the way we sat in the church. I am wondering if this custom
            did not come over from the old homeland when my family arrived here in the
            USA. Perhaps the blessing also did.

            Many thanks to all you members who make this list so interesting.

            Cheers, Aloysia

            Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@...> wrote:
            Dear Bill,
            here http://www.cgsi.org/
            I thought, everybody knows that :-)
            Join!
            Best regards,
            Vladimir
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Bill Tarkulich
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 12:45 PM
            Subject: RE: [S-R] Slovak Family Traditions


            Hi Vladimir,
            How and where can we go about obtaining the publications of " Nase
            Rodina"?
            It sounds like a good read.
            Regards,
            Bill


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Vladimir Bohinc [mailto:konekta@...]
            Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 2:44 AM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak Family Traditions



            Dear Janet,
            I agree with everything, since these are more or less all facts. This is
            what one could count into Slavic culture. Since were are all Slavs, we
            have
            many things in common. Slavs in different cuntries ( in Europe)were
            naturally under influence of their master nations or neighbors, so you can
            find this in variations too. Villages or areas, which were awau from trade
            lines, were less exposed to such influences and kept their old customs
            longer. Many of the customs go far back into the pagan era, where there
            was
            no Christianity. Every village was and to a large extent still is a closed
            community, often with it's own, unwritten rules. A foreigner, or anyone
            "different' will have a hard time in it, unless he adopts and subdues. The
            most feared weapon is gossip. It can kill people softly, or drive them
            mad.
            Another weapon is envy.It destroys much of good or new. The book Bill is
            refering to I bought already a year or two ago. It describes wery much ,
            but
            I am not very happy with the language. It is too dry, without any spirit
            or
            soul. It is evident, that it was written by people, who were educated in
            the
            past communist regime, where a person was only a statistical item. The
            writers do not care much about the reader. I would have writte it
            differently. I will touch this subject later in my article for Nase
            Rodina.
            Regards, Vladimir


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Janet Kozlay
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 4:07 AM
            Subject: [S-R] Slovak Family Traditions


            Bill, I would like to thank you for posting your excerpts from "Slovak
            Family Traditions," which I recall having read from a previous post of
            yours, as well as the remarkable Grisak autobiography.

            My own research in this area has led me to conclude that there was a
            fairly
            common culture among the peasants throughout Central Europe regardless
            of
            their particular ethnicity or language. Nearly everything in your
            excerpts
            and in the Grisak work is described in F�l and Hofer's "Proper
            Peasants,"
            though they go into much greater detail and in the case of the excerpts
            are
            far more readable. Their book, based on an intensive study of a single
            village on the Hungarian Plain, is widely available and fairly
            inexpensive.
            Descriptions I have read of the culture of Germans who migrated to
            Hungary
            also do not appear to differ materially. I suspect the same is true of
            the
            peasant culture of surrounding regions. One would expect some
            variations
            from area to area, and even village to village, but in my view the
            commonality of the customs and traditions is far more striking. Just
            one
            example is the custom of men sleeping in the stables, while the women
            and
            children slept in the house. Others include the courtship rituals of
            young
            men, the violence that often occurred when a young man courted a girl
            out
            of
            his community, the tradition of young men drinking and dancing till the
            wee
            hours until they married and settled down, and the pathetic position of
            daughters-in-law in a household.

            I am looking forward to Vladimir's contributions and would be very
            interested in learning if he agrees.

            Janet





            To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
            SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            ADVERTISEMENT






            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            --
            Yahoo! Groups Links

            a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

            b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.




            __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.848 (20040820) __________

            Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
            http://www.eset.sk


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
            SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            Yahoo! Groups Links











            To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
            SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

            Select Your
            State:AlabamaAlaskaArkansasArizonaCaliforniaColoradoConnecticutDelawareFlori
            daGeorgiaHawaiiIdahoIllinoisIndianaIowaKansasKentuckyLouisianaMaineMarylandM
            assachusettsMichiganMinnesotaMissippiMissouriMontanaNebraskaNevadaNew
            HampshireNew MexicoNew JerseyNew YorkNorth CarolinaNorth
            DakotaOklahomaOhioOregonPennsylvaniaRhode IslandSouth CarolinaSouth
            DakotaTennesseeTexasUtahVermontVirginiaWashingtonWashington D.C.West
            VirginiaWisconsinWyoming

            PurchaseRefinance






            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            --
            Yahoo! Groups Links

            a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

            b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




            __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.848 (20040820) __________

            Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
            http://www.eset.sk


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
            SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


            Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
            var lrec_target="_top";var lrec_URL = new Array();lrec_URL[1] =
            "http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129jnjss1/M=294150.5475418.6555472.1501134/D=gr
            oups/S=1705040837:HM/EXP=1096904340/A=2380023/R=0/id=flashurl/SIG=124gll7mf/
            *http://www.interest.com/includes/server/icom_campaign.asp?id=10720 ";var
            link="javascript:LRECopenWindow(1)";var lrec_flashfile =
            'http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/bo/bon_marketing/300x250_yahoo_em4_1001
            04.swf?clickTAG='+link+'';var lrec_altURL =
            "http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129jnjss1/M=294150.5475418.6555472.1501134/D=gr
            oups/S=1705040837:HM/EXP=1096904340/A=2380023/R=1/id=altimgurl/SIG=124gll7mf
            /*http://www.interest.com/includes/server/icom_campaign.asp?id=10720 ";var
            lrec_altimg =
            "http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/bo/bon_marketing/300x250_em4_100104.jpg
            ";var lrec_width = 300;var lrec_height = 250;

            ---------------------------------
            Yahoo! Groups Links

            To visit your group on the web, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
            SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            Yahoo! Groups Links










            To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor [input] [input] [input] [input] [input] Select Your State:AlabamaAlaskaArkansasArizonaCaliforniaColoradoConnecticutDelawareFloridaGeorgiaHawaiiIdahoIllinoisIndianaIowaKansasKentuckyLouisianaMaineMarylandMassachusettsMichiganMinnesotaMissippiMissouriMontanaNebraskaNevadaNew HampshireNew MexicoNew JerseyNew YorkNorth CarolinaNorth DakotaOklahomaOhioOregonPennsylvaniaRhode IslandSouth CarolinaSouth DakotaTennesseeTexasUtahVermontVirginiaWashingtonWashington D.C.West VirginiaWisconsinWyoming

            PurchaseRefinance

            [input]

            ---------------------------------
            Yahoo! Groups Links

            To visit your group on the web, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jan Ammann
            Hello Mr. Brna........Thank you for remembering what I remember. And, like you, I don t remember exactly when it changed. Yes, we were always dressed up.
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 3, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello Mr. Brna........Thank you for remembering what I remember. And, like you, I don't remember exactly when it changed. Yes, we were always dressed up. Daddy in a suit with all the accessories and a hat. My mother and my two sisters were equally done up in fou-fou-frilly type dresses with hats and gloves. Yes, gloves. The hats were usually the "bowler" type for us children with a ribbon hanging down the back part of the hat and touching our shoulders. Mother, however, had a more sedate hat....usually that sat on the top of her head and sometimes they came down on the sides. They were made of straw or velvet or some other fancy fabric........however, they all had a net that could be pulled down over the face.

              Yes, it was a fine tradition. And sometimes I wish we could ressurect it, at least for one Sunday. Our shoes were called Baby Janes with a strap across the top and we had one in black patent leather and one in white patent leather. We shined them with vaseline. I smile when I think of it now. My mother used to braid my hair so tight that I believe that is why I have big eyes. I looked perpetually startled. And if I dared to whimper as she braided she would just pull those braids tighter. Sometimes, we even polished our nails with polish. Nothing bright or glaring........a soft rose or pink. However, because my sister was the oldest, she always got away with fire engine red nails and toes.

              On Saturday night, mother would line up three enamel bowls of water on a bench either on the back porch (summertime) or in the kitchen when it was winter. The first bowl was where we leaned over and washed our hair. The second bowl was water to rinse the soap off. And the third bowl was also water to rinse but with a touch of vinegar added. I think that probably stripped off the last of the soap suds and our hair literally squeaked. Sometimes all three of us used the same bowls of water.

              And when bathing (in a #3 washtub) we also sometimes bathed after each other. Water had to be pumped and carried to the house and heated on the kerosene stove so we had to make do. We also did everything in birth order. My elder sister went first, then me, and finally, our baby sister. I often laugh and tease her because she has an olive skin whereas my older sister and I have a fair skin. I tell her it was because she had to end up using "the somewhat dirty water" and that is why she has the darker skin. Also, the darkest hair.

              I am sure this must sound strange to someone reading this who did not grow up in this type of environment but it was a wonderful way of life. The forties were war years and it was hard to make a living as farmers which our family was. As I grow older, I think of it more often and some of these lists do bring these memories back.

              I ask forgiveness of list members who may not consider this proper on a genealogy list, however, it was a family custom......how we lived.......what we did........and, of course, family is genealogy. So the circle becomes complete.

              Thank you for giving me this chance to reminisce.

              Aloysia

              William F Brna <wfbrna@...> wrote:
              I well remember the days when the men and women sat on opposite sides of
              the church. The women (and children) sat on the left, facing the Blessed
              Virgin's statue , and the men sat on the right, facing St. Joseph's
              statue. This was the custom, not only in the Slovak parish, but in the
              "Irish" parish where our family attended mass, when it was not convenient
              to travel to the Slovak parish (a seven mile trip). I also remember that
              everyone, men and women, dressed in their "Sunday best" when they went to
              mass. Not only did the men wear a suit, white shirt and tie, but they
              also wore hats. I don't know when the custom of sitting on opposite
              sides of the church was abandoned, but, as I recall, it was a gradual
              change.

              Bill Brna

              On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 09:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Jan Ammann
              <janammann@...> writes:
              >
              > Hello Everyone.....I have read this post with great interest. And
              > would like to ask a question about ethnic/religious traditions or
              > customs. My background is Moravian, Austrian-Hungarian, and German.
              > I am catholic and as a child when we went to church as a family,
              > the men all sat on the right hand side and the women and children
              > sat on the left hand side. This would be in the 1940's here in
              > Texas. It then changed throughtout the years but I am not sure of
              > the change date. Of course, my parents and my grandparents and aunts
              > and uncles all spoke Moravian as did we children in those days. My
              > grandmother would always say "Ti se Moravian" (no accent marks as
              > they mess up the email sometimes) when someone would say we were
              > czech or bohemian. She was very firm about this. To her, I suppose,
              > being called something other than Moravian was not proper. We were
              > all raised to be proud of our Moravian heritage. Of course, we all
              > learned english also and by the time we went to school,
              > moravian was ignored by all of us children and the older members of
              > the family only spoke in moravian to each other. We even prayed in
              > Moravian in our country church. We actually switched between latin
              > and Moravian. The Our Father and Hail Mary was always in Moravian.
              >
              > This also was a country parish which was rather small. I can still
              > remember the church with its white beadboard walls.......its
              > beautiful gothic shaped stained windows which opened to the outside
              > (no AC in those days). Sometimes, birds flew across the altar and
              > we even saw mice scattering across the wooden floor at times. The
              > statues were magnificent and they are the very same ones that are in
              > the catholic church (polish community) where I attend today.
              >
              > We had lent.........we had ember days.........so much that is no
              > longer. Of course, Lent is still in the church but the ember days
              > are gone. The mass was in latin as were our prayer books.
              > Also,,,,,when my older sister was married (early 1950's) the priest
              > came to the house in the early morning. My mother draped a white
              > sheet on the walls in one corner of our small living room and my
              > sister, in her wedding dress, and her husband to be, kneeled there,
              > surrounded by the parents, the priest in the corner facing them. He
              > gave a blessing to the couple and to the parents. Then, he went
              > back to the church where we all followed later on. I am supposing
              > that this also came over from the old country. I have never seen
              > this blessing enacted since that day. It, too, has disappeared.
              >
              > So, this post brought back a lot of memories for me. But I do hope
              > someone can comment on the way we sat in the church. I am wondering
              > if this custom did not come over from the old homeland when my
              > family arrived here in the USA. Perhaps the blessing also did.
              >
              > Many thanks to all you members who make this list so interesting.
              >
              > Cheers, Aloysia
              >
              > Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@...> wrote:
              > Dear Bill,
              > here http://www.cgsi.org/
              > I thought, everybody knows that :-)
              > Join!
              > Best regards,
              > Vladimir
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Bill Tarkulich
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 12:45 PM
              > Subject: RE: [S-R] Slovak Family Traditions
              >
              >
              > Hi Vladimir,
              > How and where can we go about obtaining the publications of " Nase
              > Rodina"?
              > It sounds like a good read.
              > Regards,
              > Bill
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Vladimir Bohinc [mailto:konekta@...]
              > Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 2:44 AM
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak Family Traditions
              >
              >
              >
              > Dear Janet,
              > I agree with everything, since these are more or less all facts.
              > This is
              > what one could count into Slavic culture. Since were are all
              > Slavs, we have
              > many things in common. Slavs in different cuntries ( in
              > Europe)were
              > naturally under influence of their master nations or neighbors, so
              > you can
              > find this in variations too. Villages or areas, which were awau
              > from trade
              > lines, were less exposed to such influences and kept their old
              > customs
              > longer. Many of the customs go far back into the pagan era, where
              > there was
              > no Christianity. Every village was and to a large extent still is
              > a closed
              > community, often with it's own, unwritten rules. A foreigner, or
              > anyone
              > "different' will have a hard time in it, unless he adopts and
              > subdues. The
              > most feared weapon is gossip. It can kill people softly, or drive
              > them mad.
              > Another weapon is envy.It destroys much of good or new. The book
              > Bill is
              > refering to I bought already a year or two ago. It describes wery
              > much , but
              > I am not very happy with the language. It is too dry, without any
              > spirit or
              > soul. It is evident, that it was written by people, who were
              > educated in the
              > past communist regime, where a person was only a statistical item.
              > The
              > writers do not care much about the reader. I would have writte it
              > differently. I will touch this subject later in my article for
              > Nase Rodina.
              > Regards, Vladimir
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Janet Kozlay
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 4:07 AM
              > Subject: [S-R] Slovak Family Traditions
              >
              >
              > Bill, I would like to thank you for posting your excerpts from
              > "Slovak
              > Family Traditions," which I recall having read from a previous
              > post of
              > yours, as well as the remarkable Grisak autobiography.
              >
              > My own research in this area has led me to conclude that there
              > was a
              > fairly
              > common culture among the peasants throughout Central Europe
              > regardless of
              > their particular ethnicity or language. Nearly everything in
              > your
              > excerpts
              > and in the Grisak work is described in F�l and Hofer's "Proper
              > Peasants,"
              > though they go into much greater detail and in the case of the
              > excerpts
              > are
              > far more readable. Their book, based on an intensive study of a
              > single
              > village on the Hungarian Plain, is widely available and fairly
              > inexpensive.
              > Descriptions I have read of the culture of Germans who migrated
              > to Hungary
              > also do not appear to differ materially. I suspect the same is
              > true of
              > the
              > peasant culture of surrounding regions. One would expect some
              > variations
              > from area to area, and even village to village, but in my view
              > the
              > commonality of the customs and traditions is far more striking.
              > Just one
              > example is the custom of men sleeping in the stables, while the
              > women and
              > children slept in the house. Others include the courtship
              > rituals of
              > young
              > men, the violence that often occurred when a young man courted a
              > girl out
              > of
              > his community, the tradition of young men drinking and dancing
              > till the
              > wee
              > hours until they married and settled down, and the pathetic
              > position of
              > daughters-in-law in a household.
              >
              > I am looking forward to Vladimir's contributions and would be
              > very
              > interested in learning if he agrees.
              >
              > Janet
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
              > email to
              > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > ADVERTISEMENT
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              -------------------------------------------------------------------------
              ---
              > --
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
              >
              > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
              > of Service.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.848 (20040820) __________
              >
              > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
              > http://www.eset.sk
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
              > email to
              > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
              > email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              >
              > Select Your
              >
              State:AlabamaAlaskaArkansasArizonaCaliforniaColoradoConnecticutDelawareFl
              oridaGeorgiaHawaiiIdahoIllinoisIndianaIowaKansasKentuckyLouisianaMaineMar
              ylandMassachusettsMichiganMinnesotaMissippiMissouriMontanaNebraskaNevadaN
              ew
              > HampshireNew MexicoNew JerseyNew YorkNorth CarolinaNorth
              > DakotaOklahomaOhioOregonPennsylvaniaRhode IslandSouth CarolinaSouth
              > DakotaTennesseeTexasUtahVermontVirginiaWashingtonWashington D.C.West
              > VirginiaWisconsinWyoming
              >
              > PurchaseRefinance
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              -------------------------------------------------------------------------
              -----
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
              >
              > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > Service.
              >
              >
              >
              > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.848 (20040820) __________
              >
              > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
              > http://www.eset.sk
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
              > email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
              > var lrec_target="_top";var lrec_URL = new Array();lrec_URL[1] =
              >
              "http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129jnjss1/M=294150.5475418.6555472.1501134/D
              =groups/S=1705040837:HM/EXP=1096904340/A=2380023/R=0/id=flashurl/SIG=124g
              ll7mf/*http://www.interest.com/includes/server/icom_campaign.asp?id=10720

              > ";var link="javascript:LRECopenWindow(1)";var lrec_flashfile =
              >
              'http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/bo/bon_marketing/300x250_yahoo_em4_1
              00104.swf?clickTAG='+link+'';var
              > lrec_altURL =
              >
              "http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129jnjss1/M=294150.5475418.6555472.1501134/D
              =groups/S=1705040837:HM/EXP=1096904340/A=2380023/R=1/id=altimgurl/SIG=124
              gll7mf/*http://www.interest.com/includes/server/icom_campaign.asp?id=1072
              0
              > ";var lrec_altimg =
              >
              "http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/bo/bon_marketing/300x250_em4_100104.
              jpg";var
              > lrec_width = 300;var lrec_height = 250;
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > Service.
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > --------------------~-->
              > Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
              > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
              > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FvNolB/TM
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
              > email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


              To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


              Yahoo! Groups Sponsor [input] [input] [input] [input] [input] Select Your State:AlabamaAlaskaArkansasArizonaCaliforniaColoradoConnecticutDelawareFloridaGeorgiaHawaiiIdahoIllinoisIndianaIowaKansasKentuckyLouisianaMaineMarylandMassachusettsMichiganMinnesotaMissippiMissouriMontanaNebraskaNevadaNew HampshireNew MexicoNew JerseyNew YorkNorth CarolinaNorth DakotaOklahomaOhioOregonPennsylvaniaRhode IslandSouth CarolinaSouth DakotaTennesseeTexasUtahVermontVirginiaWashingtonWashington D.C.West VirginiaWisconsinWyoming

              PurchaseRefinance

              [input]

              ---------------------------------
              Yahoo! Groups Links

              To visit your group on the web, go to:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • nhasior@aol.com
              Aloysia, Thank you for your story. I do not think it was inappropriate for this list. i enjoyed it and am passing it on to my aunt and daughter. I remember
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 4, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                Aloysia,
                Thank you for your story. I do not think it was inappropriate for this list.
                i enjoyed it and am passing it on to my aunt and daughter. I remember one
                of my aunts, born in 1904, telling me that when she got all dressed up to go
                out dancing, they were so poor that she used a tiny bit of shoe polish for
                curling her eyelashes. i never forgot that.
                Noreen


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • bill tarkulich
                Regarding the segregation of men and women, I can speak only for the East of Slovakia, but I m fairly confident the following applies generally. For the most
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 4, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  Regarding the segregation of men and women, I can speak only for the
                  East of Slovakia, but I'm fairly confident the following applies generally.

                  For the most part, 100 years ago in small villages, men and women
                  separately socialized ("Slovak Family Traditions"). I observed this
                  social segregation continued in America as well. They were hardly ever
                  seen together as a "couple", as we do today. This extended to the
                  church. If you look at the architecture of Greek Catholic churches
                  before 1945, it consisted of three spaces: the Sacristry/altar, Nave and
                  Babinec. The nave was located centrally and was where the men sat. The
                  "Babinec" or "babynets" was also called the "women's room", located
                  farthest from the altar.

                  I suspect that this tradition was modified in America since most
                  churches consisted of principally two sections, the nave (for the
                  congregants) and the altar (for the sacrament.) The "babinec" was
                  generally relegated to the role of a vestibule in America. Since room
                  separation wasn't logistically possible, dividing into two sections was
                  the next best thing.

                  As an aside, the congregants, except for the infirm generally stood
                  throughout the entire service, which could be as long as 3 hours.

                  If you attend an *Orthodox* service today (I married a Greek *Orthodox*
                  {not to be confused with Greek Catholic} and attend this church), you
                  will find the majority of people still "dress up." Men wear
                  conservative suits and women wear modest dresses.

                  Bill
                • Armata, Joseph R. (JArmata)
                  I was in Poland in 1980 in a small village church where the sexes were still segregated: the women were on the left, men on the right. Luckily when I came in
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 4, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I was in Poland in 1980 in a small village church where the sexes were
                    still segregated: the women were on the left, men on the right.
                    Luckily when I came in I picked up on it and sat on the right side!

                    Joe
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.