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Re: [S-R] Re: "Honestus" revisted again

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  • Vladimir Bohinc
    Dear Everyone, Whoever still is not sure, what honestus means ( whis is a horror to me) should kindly ask Mr.Duncan Gardiner, who is I think the highest
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 30, 2004
      Dear Everyone,
      Whoever still is not sure, what honestus means ( whis is a horror to me) should kindly ask Mr.Duncan Gardiner, who is I think the highest capacity with all the titles one can have regarding the Slovak genealogy.
      For my part, I am not translating this term with dictionaries, but speak from experience, gained by reading many hundreds of thousands of records.
      Honestus is a simple as coelebs when used in marriage records. But the discussion went only around honstus.
      One more thing came to my mind right now;
      If the term honestus would really have anything to do with honor or nobility, then it would have been surely used with death records too. An elderly person, who died, surely had a better chance to be honorable, than a 17 years old boy, who had to get married. There is not a single "Honestus" in death records.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Dr. Joe Q.
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 5:35 AM
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: "Honestus" revisted again

      It seems that a great deal of discussion has taken place over whether or
      not a child of noble or aristocratic background could be assigned the
      "honest--" description. The British/English/Scotts/etc. added the
      prefix of "Fitz" to a family name to imply illegitimate birth, generally
      to the off spring of "nobility" and a tryst. From what I have seen in
      the Slovak/Hungarian birth records; there has been no distinction
      between the common folks and the nobility when it comes to describing
      their legitimacy.

      Dr. "Q"

      Janet Kozlay wrote:

      >An interesting list, Frank, though I'm sure there is bound to be
      >disagreement over some of the definitions and there are other Latin terms
      >which are not included. Could you tell us the source?
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: Frank [mailto:frankur@...]
      >Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 7:33 PM
      >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [S-R] Re: "Honestus" revisted again
      >Again must disagree with some definitions posted by Slovak-Root's
      >resident genealogist and Latin reader.
      >Found some Latin titles indicative of social status applicable to both
      >nobility and commoners.
      >These concepts are foreign to American contemporary culture and even
      >the closest rough equivalent meaning is diluted.
      >In many cases the status or rank indicated has no equivalent in
      >English language.
      >Terms for nobles and clergy
      >illustrissimus ac magnificus (L)
      >the Honorable
      >used for a magnate, i.e. person of rank, power, influence
      >magnificus (L)
      >Your Honor, Esq.
      >used for a top official
      >generosus (L)
      >"well born"
      >used for the owner of at least one village
      >nobilis (L)
      >used for owner of land, or leaseholder
      >spectabilis (L)
      >wealthly patrician (aristocrat) from a large city
      >There is no word spelled spettabilis in Latin.
      >Some village priests may not have known correct Latin.
      >spectabilis (L)
      >spectabil.is ADJ 3 2 NOM S C POS
      >spectabil.is ADJ 3 2 GEN S X POS
      >spectabil.is ADJ 3 2 ACC P C POS
      >spectabilis, spectabilis, spectabile ADJ
      >able to be seen or looked at; worth looking at;
      >Spetabilis is a species of poisonous mushroom (toadstool) although
      >very beautiful to see.
      >honoratus (L)
      >famosus/famatus (L)
      >middle class craftsman
      >providus/circumspectus (L)
      >used for a poor craftsman
      >honestus (L)
      >used for farmer from a small town
      >respectable (E)
      >honestus -a -um (1) [honored , in good repute, respectable]. (2)
      >[honorable, proper, virtuous]; n. as subst.[morality,
      >virtue].(3) [fine, beautiful].
      >Adv. honeste, [respectably; honorably; properly].
      >(St. Honestus, a Catholic saint whose feast day is February 16)
      >laboriosus (L)
      >used for a farmer from a small town
      >infidelis/perfidus (L)
      >used for a non-Christian
      >reverendus (L)
      >used for an abbot,bishop
      >venerabilis (L)
      >distinguished, venerable
      >used for a pastor/priest
      >honorabilis (L)
      >venerable, honorable
      >used for a rural pastor or assistant pastor
      >Terms for commoners (peasants)
      >cmetho/cmethonis (L)
      >a peasant with at least one "lan" of land
      >(a lan was originally all the land that could be plowed within one
      >day ,i.e. between daybreak and sunset.Roughly 30 acres. That was the
      >top stratum of a village population. Later as the population
      >increased, the soil had to be re-divided and partly sold. The
      >farmer's sons started to farm the original lan, so a subcategory of
      >farmers came into existence. Eventually the differences
      >between the various strata were at least the same as the gap between
      >the various classes of nobility.
      >semi-cmetho (L)
      >a peasant farmer on 1/2 "lan" of land
      >hortulanus/hortulani (L)
      >a peasant farmer who owned a house with a small piece
      >of land and a garden
      >inqilinus/inqulini (L)
      >a farmer who lived with another
      >famulus/famuli (L)
      >a landless farmer worker or a worker on an estate
      >colonus/coloni (L)
      >originally meant a "settler", later meant a "poor peasant"
      >agricola/agricolae (L)
      >a 19th century term to describe a peasant
      >providus -a -um [foreseeing; providing , taking measures for]; in
      >gen.,[cautious, prudent].
      >provid.us ADJ 1 1 NOM S M POS
      >providus -a -um [foreseeing; providing , taking measures for]; in
      >[cautious, prudent].
      >providus = prophetic
      >provida = provident (sparing)
      >providum = characterized by forethought
      >inhoneste (L)
      >inhonest.e ADJ 1 1 VOC S M POS
      >inhonestus, inhonesta -um, inhonestior -or -us, inhonestissimus -a
      >shameful, not regarded with honor/respect; degrading (appearance);
      >inhoneste ADV POS
      >inhoneste ADV
      >shamefully; dishonorably;
      >deflorata (L)
      >deflorat.a VPAR 1 1 NOM S F PERF PASSIVE PPL
      >deflorat.a VPAR 1 1 ABL S F PERF PASSIVE PPL
      >deflorat.a VPAR 1 1 NOM P N PERF PASSIVE PPL
      >deflorat.a VPAR 1 1 ACC P N PERF PASSIVE PPL
      >defloro, deflorare, defloravi, defloratus V TRANS Late uncommon
      >pluck flowers; deflower/dishonor/ravish/seduce (virgin); cull/excerpt;
      > v
      >Frank Kurcina

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