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Re: [S-R] Surname help

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  • John M,
    ... I found 57 Bratko listings in the SK online phone directory. From just a cursory scan of the listings, there appear to be Bratkos in many areas of
    Message 1 of 22 , Aug 8, 2004
      >At 06:40 PM 8/8/2004 -0500, you wrote:
      >
      >Does anyone have any ideas where I might look? My gut tells me that she
      >might have been from a village to the east. There are more Molcanyis to
      >the east of Jurske. A Nicholas Molchany, a Greek Catholic priest was from
      >'Bajer Vagas,

      I found 57 Bratko listings in the SK online phone directory. From just a
      cursory scan of the listings, there appear to be Bratkos in many areas of
      Slovakia including Eastern Slovakia. Go
      to http://www.zoznamst.sk/eng/index.html and place a "0" (without the
      quotes) in the area telephone code window. Search for Bratko and check to
      see if any are located in the villages near Jurske. Instead of using the
      "0", you might try placing at least the first three letters of the nearby
      villages in the town window to see if you can find a Bratko nearby. I
      tried Jurske and a couple of towns nearby but did not find any.

      John M.
    • Bohdana Badzio
      Hello Jerry, have you located the marriage record for Maria Bratko and Andrew Molchany, for example on an FHL microfilm? It should have information on the
      Message 2 of 22 , Aug 9, 2004
        Hello Jerry,

        have you located the marriage record for Maria Bratko and Andrew
        Molchany, for example on an FHL microfilm? It should have information
        on the bride's home village, among other. If the Molchanys had lived
        in Jurske since 1800 and Maria and Andrew's son was born there, I'd
        say Jurske would be the first place to look for a marriage record.
        For Jurske, FHL has Roman Catholic church books for years 1768-1897
        and Evangelical ones for 1808 - 1906 <www.familysearch.org>.

        By the way, familysearch.org lists an International Genealogical
        Index (IGI) entry for MARY BRATKO, born 14 AUG 1883 in Zaborow
        Brzesko, Galizien Kroenlande, Austria, died 14 MAY 1954. Parents were
        ANDREW BRATKO and SOPHIE ANTOSZ:

        http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp

        A Zaborow, in the vicinity of Brzesko, may be the one found now
        about 16mi North-West of Tarnow in Poland, some 45mi North of Jurske,
        and across the current Poland-Slovakia border. In 1991, there were
        170 BRATKOs still living in the region of Tarnow, the gratest
        concentration of BRATKOs in Poland (www.herby.pl/herby/).

        This Mary would be, of course, too young to be your ggm, if the dates
        in this IGI entry are correct. On the whole, this is just a side
        note, as the accuracy of the IGI entries should not be taken for
        granted.

        Regards,

        Bohdana Badzio


        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, jwm469@w... wrote:
        > I am asking for help in deciding wher to try to look next. My
        great-grandmother Maria Bratko married my great-
        > grandfather Andrew Molchany (Molcsany/Molcanyi) around 1891shortly
        before he left for America. Their first son
        > Andrew was born in Dec 1892 in Jurske, Slovakia. (I have the
        Molcanyi family traced back to about 1800 in Jurske.)
        >
        > I have been trying for 10+ years to find the village that my great-
        grandmother may have been from. There is no
        > information in the Ellis Island records on-line. In fact the link
        is wrong and it took me weeks to find the correct record
        > (which I have misplaced/mis-filed). I have been told that there
        were Bratko's in Bratislava. But I think that is too large a
        > city to try to find her.
        >
        > Does anyone have any ideas where I might look? My gut tells me
        that she might have been from a village to the east.
        > There are more Molcanyis to the east of Jurske. A Nicholas
        Molchany, a Greek Catholic priest was from 'Bajer Vagas,
        > Saros". I think the Molchanys migrated west from that area, maybe
        even Svidnik and surrounds. I was once told the
        > names that end in 'ko' are most likely Rusyn. That makes me want
        to look east. Another cousin said that his relatives
        > said the Molcanyi name is Rusyn. My paternal grandmother said that
        the family was part Russian - but prbably meant
        > Rusyn.
        >
        > I'm at a loss and any help would be appreciated.
        >
        > Thanks,
        >
        > Jerry
      • Bohdana Badzio
        By the way, from the Ukrainian speaker s point of view, BRATKO is a diminutive of brat , which is brother . The word also exists ib Polish, Czech (bratr) and
        Message 3 of 22 , Aug 9, 2004
          By the way, from the Ukrainian speaker's point of view, BRATKO is a
          diminutive of "brat", which is "brother". The word also exists ib
          Polish, Czech (bratr) and probably Slovak (don't have a dictionary
          handy to check).

          Perhaps you already knew that...

          Regards,

          Bohdana


          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, jwm469@w... wrote:
          > I am asking for help in deciding wher to try to look next. My
          great-grandmother Maria Bratko married my great-
          > grandfather Andrew Molchany (Molcsany/Molcanyi) around 1891shortly
          before he left for America. Their first son
          > Andrew was born in Dec 1892 in Jurske, Slovakia. (I have the
          Molcanyi family traced back to about 1800 in Jurske.)
          >
          > I have been trying for 10+ years to find the village that my great-
          grandmother may have been from. There is no
          > information in the Ellis Island records on-line. In fact the link
          is wrong and it took me weeks to find the correct record
          > (which I have misplaced/mis-filed). I have been told that there
          were Bratko's in Bratislava. But I think that is too large a
          > city to try to find her.
          >
          > Does anyone have any ideas where I might look? My gut tells me
          that she might have been from a village to the east.
          > There are more Molcanyis to the east of Jurske. A Nicholas
          Molchany, a Greek Catholic priest was from 'Bajer Vagas,
          > Saros". I think the Molchanys migrated west from that area, maybe
          even Svidnik and surrounds. I was once told the
          > names that end in 'ko' are most likely Rusyn. That makes me want
          to look east. Another cousin said that his relatives
          > said the Molcanyi name is Rusyn. My paternal grandmother said that
          the family was part Russian - but prbably meant
          > Rusyn.
          >
          > I'm at a loss and any help would be appreciated.
          >
          > Thanks,
          >
          > Jerry
        • Joe Mrnka
          Bohdana, The diminutive of Bratr in Czech is Bratr^i k (i m pretty sure) and Bratri k or Bratri c^ek in Slovak, but I think I have heard the term Bratko as
          Message 4 of 22 , Aug 10, 2004
            Bohdana,

            The diminutive of Bratr in Czech is Bratr^i'k (i'm pretty
            sure) and Bratri'k or Bratri'c^ek in Slovak, but I think I
            have heard the term Bratko as well, and that would have
            been from the old timers.

            Joe



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          • Bohdana Badzio
            Hello Joe, thank you for the information. I should ve said that in Ukrainian bratko is one of many diminutive form, and not necessarily the most common in
            Message 5 of 22 , Aug 10, 2004
              Hello Joe,

              thank you for the information.

              I should've said that in Ukrainian "bratko" is one of many diminutive
              form, and not necessarily the most common in everyday speech. It was
              interesting to learn what such forms are in Czech and Slovak. Thank
              you.

              Bohdana


              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joe Mrnka <jmrnka@y...> wrote:
              > Bohdana,
              >
              > The diminutive of Bratr in Czech is Bratr^i'k (i'm pretty
              > sure) and Bratri'k or Bratri'c^ek in Slovak, but I think I
              > have heard the term Bratko as well, and that would have
              > been from the old timers.
              >
              > Joe
            • Paul Sabol
              I need some assistance with surnames in Slovakia. I m almost 100% certain my g-g-grandmother was Maria Fecso who married Andrej Sabol back in the old country
              Message 6 of 22 , Jun 4, 2009
                I need some assistance with surnames in Slovakia. I'm almost 100% certain my g-g-grandmother was Maria Fecso who married Andrej Sabol back in the old country (Sosujfalu). Her father was Mathias Fecso according to the local parish register.

                Two of their sons, John and Andrew (Americanized spelling) immigrated to America in 1885. Fast forward to 1914 and Andrew dies in Yonkers, NY. On the death certificate it lists his mother's maiden name as Maria Mathias.

                Did the Slovak culture do anything weird with female surnames where Maria might have been born a Fecso but carried her father's name as her maiden name?

                If I didn't explain it well let me know and I'll try again.
              • Michael Mojher
                Paul, The use of an alias name occurs in Slovak records. Mathias is Latin for Matthew. Female names always end with ova in Slovakia. To have it become
                Message 7 of 22 , Jun 4, 2009
                  Paul,
                  The use of an "alias" name occurs in Slovak records.
                  Mathias is Latin for Matthew. Female names always end with "ova" in Slovakia. To have it become Mathias in America seems to indicated the change was made here. Mathias happens to be the given name of her father, as you saw. How alias names were chosen I have not discovered.
                  What is an Alias?
                  Alias or aka or nickname appears sometimes with individuals, mostly male, in church records and other documents. The main reason for someone to have an alias appears to be the need of community to tell apart several families with the same surname. Alias was always given to a person or family by the community there were living in. However, there are also instances, where someone was alone with his surname, but still had an alias. He probably brought it from another place when he married into a new community or was it given to him for some other reasons. Very often it is not possible to explain the meaning of an alias.
                  In my recent research I came across a Roman Catholic parish of Kysucke Nove Mesto, where there were very many aliases used. I found this so interesting that I transcribed some of them. From the research point of view this parish is also interesting because it is very hard to figure out, when one name is an alias and the other is a regular surname and vice versa. Several aliases namely gradually changed into regular surnames. Names and aliases are written as found in the Church records from 1880 till 1895.
                  There is a thread at Ancestry.com on Slovak alias names. If you care to read that discussion go to - http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.ceeurope.slovakia.general/1749.1/mb.ashx


                  From: Paul Sabol
                  Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:50 PM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [S-R] Surname help






                  I need some assistance with surnames in Slovakia. I'm almost 100% certain my g-g-grandmother was Maria Fecso who married Andrej Sabol back in the old country (Sosujfalu). Her father was Mathias Fecso according to the local parish register.

                  Two of their sons, John and Andrew (Americanized spelling) immigrated to America in 1885. Fast forward to 1914 and Andrew dies in Yonkers, NY. On the death certificate it lists his mother's maiden name as Maria Mathias.

                  Did the Slovak culture do anything weird with female surnames where Maria might have been born a Fecso but carried her father's name as her maiden name?

                  If I didn't explain it well let me know and I'll try again.





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • mygraytommy
                  Hello All, Here s an odd one - right side, middle of the page, the first marriage of 1770 - Andreas Staszko to Barbara ???
                  Message 8 of 22 , Mar 8, 2016

                    Hello All,


                    Here's an odd one - right side, middle of the page, the first marriage of 1770 - Andreas Staszko to Barbara ???


                    https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6D9S-F9M?mode=g&i=223&wc=9PQ8-RM9%3A107654301%2C112073701%2C152316701%2C950186701%3Fcc%3D1554443&cc=1554443&cat=755537


                    My first guess is Pivovarnik, but there's a few letters missing and it appears with the = it ends with  "vebo".  The word "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate.  


                    Does anyone have ideas?


                    Thanks much,

                    Sandra 


                  • Michael Mojher
                    Pivovarnik is a Slovak name found in eastern Slovakia. The witnesses were from Demijata, the village due north of Tulcik. I think your vebo and mizja are two
                    Message 9 of 22 , Mar 8, 2016
                      Pivovarnik is a Slovak name found in eastern Slovakia.
                      The witnesses were from Demijata, the village due north of Tulcik.
                      I think your vebo and mizja are two different words.
                      Testes, the next word is witnesses in Latin.
                      This is the Latin version of the record that seems to have used a mix of languages.


                      Michael Mojher
                      mgmojher@...


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: pman40@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Tue, Mar 8, 2016 5:36 pm
                      Subject: [S-R] Surname help

                       
                      Hello All,

                      Here's an odd one - right side, middle of the page, the first marriage of 1770 - Andreas Staszko to Barbara ???


                      My first guess is Pivovarnik, but there's a few letters missing and it appears with the = it ends with  "vebo".  The word "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate.  

                      Does anyone have ideas?

                      Thanks much,
                      Sandra 

                    • Sandra & John Panzitta
                      Hi Michael, Thanks for your input. Here’s an example baptism entry, (top right, first entry, Maria) with the surname of Pivovarnikvebo followed by lukaisa.
                      Message 10 of 22 , Mar 9, 2016
                        Hi Michael,

                        Thanks for your input.  Here’s an example baptism entry, (top right, first entry, Maria) with the surname of Pivovarnikvebo followed by lukaisa. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6D9S-6LS?mode=g&i=126&wc=9PQ8-RM9%3A107654301%2C112073701%2C152316701%2C950186701%3Fcc%3D1554443&cc=1554443

                        While I agree the surname is Pivovarnik, I’m wondering what the ending/additional word could possibly mean for the marriage entry.  It is unique for this couple although other entries have an additional word after the woman’s name.

                        Yes, they were from Demjata.  One of my family’s alias names is Demjacky, I am guessing it refers to coming from this village.
                         I agree this priest was using a mix of languages, going through the registers, I am seeing names or combinations of names that seem rather odd.

                        Thanks for looking!
                        Sandra


                        On Mar 9, 2016, at 1:22 AM, Michael Mojher mgmojher@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                        Pivovarnik is a Slovak name found in eastern Slovakia.
                        The witnesses were from Demijata, the village due north of Tulcik.
                        I think your vebo and mizja are two different words. 
                        Testes, the next word is witnesses in Latin.
                        This is the Latin version of the record that seems to have used a mix of languages.


                        Michael Mojher
                        mgmojher@...


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: pman40@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tue, Mar 8, 2016 5:36 pm
                        Subject: [S-R] Surname help

                         
                        Hello All,

                        Here's an odd one - right side, middle of the page, the first marriage of 1770 - Andreas Staszko to Barbara ???


                        My first guess is Pivovarnik, but there's a few letters missing and it appears with the = it ends with  "vebo".  The word "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate.  

                        Does anyone have ideas?

                        Thanks much,
                        Sandra 



                      • curtbocha
                        My first guess is Pivovarnik, but there s a few letters missing and it appears with the = it ends with vebo . The word mizja is clearly written, however
                        Message 11 of 22 , Mar 9, 2016

                          My first guess is Pivovarnik, but there's a few letters missing and it appears with the = it ends with  "vebo".  The word "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate.  


                          Does anyone have ideas?


                          Barbara Pivovarnik ovebo Mizja = Barbara Pivovarnik alias Mizja


                          this usage is found in other registers as well.


                          Curtb

                        • Sandra & John Panzitta
                          Yaaaah!!! Thanks so much Curtb This group is the BEST!! With gratitude, Sandra
                          Message 12 of 22 , Mar 9, 2016
                            Yaaaah!!!  Thanks so much Curtb

                            This group is the BEST!!

                            With gratitude,
                            Sandra
                            On Mar 9, 2016, at 1:43 PM, curt67boc@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                            My first guess is Pivovarnik, but there's a few letters missing and it appears with the = it ends with  "vebo".  The word "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate.  


                            Does anyone have ideas?


                            Barbara Pivovarnik ovebo Mizja = Barbara Pivovarnik alias Mizja


                            this usage is found in other registers as well.


                            Curtb



                          • Michael Mojher
                            Message 13 of 22 , Mar 10, 2016

                            • Michael Mojher
                              The following was sent to me by Dr. Martin Vertuba the head of Slovak Studies at Pittsburgh University. The writer identified the person, Andrej ( Andrew,
                              Message 14 of 22 , Mar 10, 2016
                                The following was sent to me by Dr. Martin Vertuba the head of Slovak Studies at Pittsburgh University.

                                The writer identified the person, Andrej ("Andrew," Andreas in Latin), through his father, Lukáš Pivovarník. Then he said that Andrej's wife was Mária. The form Pivovarníkového is possessive, "of Pivovarník, Pivovarník's." Contemporary Standard Slovak would not phrase it quite the same way, and the whole phrase is somewhat tangled, but the meaning is "Andrej Pivovarník, a/the son of Lukáš Pivovarník, and his [Andrej's] spouse Mária." Someone with poor writing skills might end up putting it that way today too.

                                BTW, pivovarník means a "beer brewer," but that did not need to have been Lukáš's profession. And another note, the first name, Lukáš ("Luke"), used to have an alternative version Lukáč, which is what the record represents.

                                "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate

                                It is the genitive of Mižu, a version of Mišo common especially in parts of East Slovakia, both nicknames for Michal (Michael). The genitive is used in the attributive/possessive sense, "Michal Pivovarník's [daughter] Barbara": Barbara Pivovarníkového Miša.


                                Michael Mojher
                                mgmojher@...


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Sandra & John Panzitta pman40@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Wed, Mar 9, 2016 1:30 pm
                                Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Surname help

                                 
                                Yaaaah!!!  Thanks so much Curtb

                                This group is the BEST!!

                                With gratitude,
                                Sandra
                                On Mar 9, 2016, at 1:43 PM, curt67boc@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                                My first guess is Pivovarnik, but there's a few letters missing and it appears with the = it ends with  "vebo".  The word "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate.  

                                Does anyone have ideas?

                                Barbara Pivovarnik ovebo Mizja = Barbara Pivovarnik alias Mizja

                                this usage is found in other registers as well.

                                Curtb


                              • Suzanne Bond
                                Not my query but very interesting.Suzanne From: Michael Mojher mgmojher@verizon.net [SLOVAK-ROOTS] To:
                                Message 15 of 22 , Mar 10, 2016
                                  Not my query but very interesting.
                                  Suzanne



                                  From: "Michael Mojher mgmojher@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS]" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 10:47 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Surname help

                                   
                                  The following was sent to me by Dr. Martin Vertuba the head of Slovak Studies at Pittsburgh University.

                                  The writer identified the person, Andrej ("Andrew," Andreas in Latin), through his father, Lukáš Pivovarník. Then he said that Andrej's wife was Mária. The form Pivovarníkového is possessive, "of Pivovarník, Pivovarník's." Contemporary Standard Slovak would not phrase it quite the same way, and the whole phrase is somewhat tangled, but the meaning is "Andrej Pivovarník, a/the son of Lukáš Pivovarník, and his [Andrej's] spouse Mária." Someone with poor writing skills might end up putting it that way today too.

                                  BTW, pivovarník means a "beer brewer," but that did not need to have been Lukáš's profession. And another note, the first name, Lukáš ("Luke"), used to have an alternative version Lukáč, which is what the record represents.

                                  "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate

                                  It is the genitive of Mižu, a version of Mišo common especially in parts of East Slovakia, both nicknames for Michal (Michael). The genitive is used in the attributive/possessive sense, "Michal Pivovarník's [daughter] Barbara": Barbara Pivovarníkového Miša.


                                  Michael Mojher
                                  mgmojher@...


                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Sandra & John Panzitta pman40@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Wed, Mar 9, 2016 1:30 pm
                                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Surname help

                                   
                                  Yaaaah!!!  Thanks so much Curtb

                                  This group is the BEST!!

                                  With gratitude,
                                  Sandra
                                  On Mar 9, 2016, at 1:43 PM, curt67boc@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                                  My first guess is Pivovarnik, but there's a few letters missing and it appears with the = it ends with  "vebo".  The word "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate.  

                                  Does anyone have ideas?

                                  Barbara Pivovarnik ovebo Mizja = Barbara Pivovarnik alias Mizja

                                  this usage is found in other registers as well.

                                  Curtb




                                • Sandra & John Panzitta
                                  I AM DELIGHTED!!! Michaell, thank you for taking it a step further, now I know the name of my Great x7 Grandfather! Let me repeat my self - THIS IS THE BEST
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Mar 10, 2016
                                    I AM DELIGHTED!!!  Michaell, thank you for taking it a step further, now I know the name of my Great x7 Grandfather!
                                     
                                    Let me repeat my self - THIS IS THE BEST GROUP EVER!

                                    Thank you, thank you!
                                    Sandra

                                    On Mar 10, 2016, at 12:45 PM, Suzanne Bond rayandsuzanne@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                                    Not my query but very interesting.
                                    Suzanne



                                    From: "Michael Mojher mgmojher@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS]" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com 
                                    Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 10:47 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Surname help

                                     
                                    The following was sent to me by Dr. Martin Vertuba the head of Slovak Studies at Pittsburgh University.

                                    The writer identified the person, Andrej ("Andrew," Andreas in Latin), through his father, Lukáš Pivovarník. Then he said that Andrej's wife was Mária. The form Pivovarníkového is possessive, "of Pivovarník, Pivovarník's." Contemporary Standard Slovak would not phrase it quite the same way, and the whole phrase is somewhat tangled, but the meaning is "Andrej Pivovarník, a/the son of Lukáš Pivovarník, and his [Andrej's] spouse Mária." Someone with poor writing skills might end up putting it that way today too.

                                    BTW, pivovarník means a "beer brewer," but that did not need to have been Lukáš's profession. And another note, the first name, Lukáš ("Luke"), used to have an alternative version Lukáč, which is what the record represents.

                                    "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate

                                    It is the genitive of Mižu, a version of Mišo common especially in parts of East Slovakia, both nicknames for Michal (Michael). The genitive is used in the attributive/possessive sense, "Michal Pivovarník's [daughter] Barbara": Barbara Pivovarníkového Miša.


                                    Michael Mojher
                                    mgmojher@...


                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Sandra & John Panzitta pman40@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Wed, Mar 9, 2016 1:30 pm
                                    Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Surname help

                                     
                                    Yaaaah!!!  Thanks so much Curtb

                                    This group is the BEST!!

                                    With gratitude,
                                    Sandra
                                    On Mar 9, 2016, at 1:43 PM, curt67boc@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                                    My first guess is Pivovarnik, but there's a few letters missing and it appears with the = it ends with  "vebo".  The word "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate.  

                                    Does anyone have ideas?

                                    Barbara Pivovarnik ovebo Mizja = Barbara Pivovarnik alias Mizja

                                    this usage is found in other registers as well.

                                    Curtb






                                  • Michael Mojher
                                    Sandra, I will repeat the message from Dr. Vortuba so you have it on your link - The following was sent to me by Dr. Martin Vertuba the head of Slovak Studies
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Mar 10, 2016
                                      Sandra,
                                          I will repeat the message from Dr. Vortuba so you have it on your link -

                                      The following was sent to me by Dr. Martin Vertuba the head of Slovak Studies at Pittsburgh University.

                                      The writer identified the person, Andrej ("Andrew," Andreas in Latin), through his father, Lukáš Pivovarník. Then he said that Andrej's wife was Mária. The form Pivovarníkového is possessive, "of Pivovarník, Pivovarník's." Contemporary Standard Slovak would not phrase it quite the same way, and the whole phrase is somewhat tangled, but the meaning is "Andrej Pivovarník, a/the son of Lukáš Pivovarník, and his [Andrej's] spouse Mária." Someone with poor writing skills might end up putting it that way today too.

                                      BTW, pivovarník means a "beer brewer," but that did not need to have been Lukáš's profession. And another note, the first name, Lukáš ("Luke"), used to have an alternative version Lukáč, which is what the record represents.

                                      "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate

                                      It is the genitive of Mižu, a version of Mišo common especially in parts of East Slovakia, both nicknames for Michal (Michael). The genitive is used in the attributive/possessive sense, "Michal Pivovarník's [daughter] Barbara": Barbara Pivovarníkového Miša.


                                      Michael Mojher
                                      mgmojher@...


                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Sandra & John Panzitta pman40@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Thu, Mar 10, 2016 10:28 am
                                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Surname help

                                       
                                      I AM DELIGHTED!!!  Michaell, thank you for taking it a step further, now I know the name of my Great x7 Grandfather!
                                       
                                      Let me repeat my self - THIS IS THE BEST GROUP EVER!

                                      Thank you, thank you!
                                      Sandra

                                      On Mar 10, 2016, at 12:45 PM, Suzanne Bond rayandsuzanne@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                                      Not my query but very interesting.
                                      Suzanne



                                      From: "Michael Mojher mgmojher@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS]" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com 
                                      Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 10:47 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Surname help

                                       
                                      The following was sent to me by Dr. Martin Vertuba the head of Slovak Studies at Pittsburgh University.

                                      The writer identified the person, Andrej ("Andrew," Andreas in Latin), through his father, Lukáš Pivovarník. Then he said that Andrej's wife was Mária. The form Pivovarníkového is possessive, "of Pivovarník, Pivovarník's." Contemporary Standard Slovak would not phrase it quite the same way, and the whole phrase is somewhat tangled, but the meaning is "Andrej Pivovarník, a/the son of Lukáš Pivovarník, and his [Andrej's] spouse Mária." Someone with poor writing skills might end up putting it that way today too.

                                      BTW, pivovarník means a "beer brewer," but that did not need to have been Lukáš's profession. And another note, the first name, Lukáš ("Luke"), used to have an alternative version Lukáč, which is what the record represents.

                                      "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate

                                      It is the genitive of Mižu, a version of Mišo common especially in parts of East Slovakia, both nicknames for Michal (Michael). The genitive is used in the attributive/possessive sense, "Michal Pivovarník's [daughter] Barbara": Barbara Pivovarníkového Miša.


                                      Michael Mojher
                                      mgmojher@...


                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Sandra & John Panzitta pman40@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Wed, Mar 9, 2016 1:30 pm
                                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Surname help

                                       
                                      Yaaaah!!!  Thanks so much Curtb

                                      This group is the BEST!!

                                      With gratitude,
                                      Sandra
                                      On Mar 9, 2016, at 1:43 PM, curt67boc@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                                      My first guess is Pivovarnik, but there's a few letters missing and it appears with the = it ends with  "vebo".  The word "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate.  

                                      Does anyone have ideas?

                                      Barbara Pivovarnik ovebo Mizja = Barbara Pivovarnik alias Mizja

                                      this usage is found in other registers as well.

                                      Curtb






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