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[S-R] Re: 1869 Hungarian census

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  • mlthrush
    Janet, Thanks for the additional information on typical Slovak houses and for the 2 websites. It got me searching for more details on my family s living
    Message 1 of 34 , Aug 6, 2004
      Janet,

      Thanks for the additional information on typical Slovak houses and
      for the 2 websites. It got me searching for more details on my
      family's living conditions. There were 9 people listed in the
      household. 3 families, one with a baby, and 1 single woman and a
      single young boy. The singles were listed as helpers and had the
      same last name but weren't listed as being related. That appears to
      follow some of your findings that the houses were built for multiple
      families. It also had a separate kitchen and an attached storage
      shed. That also seems in line with your findings. I definitly need
      to order the census for the entire village to see if the 1=1 notation
      is used for other dwellings. Thanks for your help.

      Mary Lou


      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@c...>
      wrote:
      > Frank,
      >
      >
      >
      > Where did you get your information that most houses had only one
      room? A
      > search on "Slovak house architecture" resulted in the following
      > descriptions:
      >
      >
      >
      > "For original folk architecture, the wooden three-room houses are
      the most
      > typical examples."
      >
      >
      >
      > ". . . true Slovak architecture. The houses reflect the needs of
      the Slovak
      > peasants in the last few centuries. They are very utilitarian and
      built to
      > withstand cold winters. The traditional layout is a long building
      with the
      > kitchen in the center. While they may look small these houses were
      > originally made to house multiple families - often 4 families lived
      in one
      > house. The kitchens are quite large however, as each family would
      have their
      > own stove."
      >
      >
      >
      > [Upper Saris and Northern Zemplin] "The largest part is devoted to
      the
      > characteristic three-room house. (main chamber, parlor and storage
      room)
      > with subsequent addition of outbuildings (stable, barnyard sheds)."
      >
      >
      >
      > "...preserved two-room and three-room log houses that belong to the
      typical
      > buildings of the regional architecture in the northern part of the
      central
      > Slovakia. The three-room farming log house No. 15 was built in
      1886."
      >
      >
      >
      > The http://home.nextra.sk/sarmus/English/Expozic/skanzen.htm
      website has a
      > beautiful picture of a typical "sleeping room" from the museum for
      Upper
      > Saris. Clearly no kitchen or pantry areas in this room. Another
      is found
      > at http://www.hotelautis.szm.sk/gb101.htm, from the Museum of
      Liptovska
      > village in Pribylina. This time the room looks arranged more like
      Hungarian
      > ones, with the bed piled high with bedding in the corner, and a
      corner
      > table, with benches around the sides. Again, no kitchen or pantry
      area in
      > this room.
      >
      >
      >
      > The only exception I could find was the following: "Although both
      areas of
      > the Boikian region [Ukraine] belong to the same general ethnic
      group,
      > certain differences can be noted in the southern region especially
      in
      > dialect and in housebuilding, the main type of house being a two-
      room
      > structure, consisting only of an entrance hall and the house
      proper."
      >
      >
      >
      > Balassa and Ortutay's ethnographic study of Hungary, which also
      includes
      > many references to Slovakia, again shows that nearly all peasant
      houses
      > consisted of three rooms--a center kitchen, with a "dwelling room"
      on one
      > side and pantry on the other. They also indicate that houses
      consisting
      > only of a single room were typical only very early (11th-13th
      centuries).
      > The same information is found in Fel and Hofer's "Proper Peasants,"
      and
      > while this describes a Hungarian village, the basic architecture
      for the
      > entire Central European region seems quite similar.
      >
      >
      >
      > Janet
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Frank [mailto:frankur@w...]
      > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 6:45 AM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [S-R] Re: 1869 Hungarian census
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "mlthrush" <mlthrush@a...>
      wrote:
      >
      > > Hello,
      >
      > >
      >
      > > I just received a copy of my family's entry in the 1869 Hungarian
      >
      > > census. In the part that lists the number of rooms in the house
      the
      >
      > > notation is 1=1 for szoba/sleeping room as well as Kamra/pantry
      and
      >
      > > konyha/seperate kitchen. In the part for Other buildings the
      >
      > > notation is simply 1 for felszer/storage shed, raktar/storage,
      >
      > > akol/pen and csur/barn.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Does anyone know what 1=1 would mean? Could this mean that there
      is
      >
      > > only 1 room that is used for everything, sleeping,pantry and
      >
      > > kitchen?
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Mary Lou
      >
      >
      >
      > ahoj
      >
      >
      >
      > As Bill Tarkulich asked what was your particular village ?
      >
      >
      >
      > Typically, the main tally sheet lists the house number and the
      number
      >
      > and types of rooms in the house.
      >
      >
      >
      > Houses were numbered 1 to xxx ? This didn't mean that the houses
      >
      > actually had a house number attached to them.
      >
      >
      >
      > Most houses had only 1 room (szoba); a few had 3 rooms;
      occasionally
      >
      > 4 or 5 depending on size of village and wealth of owner.
      >
      > A few houses had a closet or storage room (kamra) in the house, and
      an
      >
      > entrance (eloszoba)
      >
      > Few houses had a separate kitchen (konyha).
      >
      >
      >
      > Other structures might have been recorded too: another storage
      area
      >
      > (kamra), a shed attached to the house (felszer), perhaps a shop
      (bolt)
      >
      > used for a business(├╝zletre) etc.
      >
      >
      >
      > If relevant a space for the number of stalls (istallo) for animals
      and
      >
      > any feed storage area (csur).
      >
      >
      >
      > A separate tally sheet for each house listed all of the animals
      that
      >
      > were owned.
      >
      >
      >
      > Frank K
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      email to
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      >
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      >
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      >
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      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Vladimir Bohinc
      Trencin Census did not survive. Therefore it could not be filmed. Vladimir ... From: johnqadam To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006
      Message 34 of 34 , Oct 12, 2006
        Trencin Census did not survive. Therefore it could not be filmed.
        Vladimir

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: johnqadam
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 6:15 PM
        Subject: Re: [S-R] 1869 Hungarian census


        >>> Regarding the 1869 Hungarian Census . . . does anyone know if
        additional counties have been added (mainly interested in Trenscen)?<<<

        The list of census films is on line at the LDS web site. Sorry, no
        Trenscen listed.





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