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RE: [S-R] Digest Number 1496

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  • Daniel Kisha
    Ahoj I am Slovak. I live in Vrutky in the northern part of Slovakia. There are many families with Ruttkay, Lamos, Tathurecky surnames there. So, many women
    Message 1 of 1 , May 31, 2004
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      Ahoj
      I am Slovak. I live in Vrutky in the northern part of Slovakia. There
      are many families with Ruttkay, Lamos, Tathurecky surnames there. So,
      many women married the man with the same surname. Magda


      -----Original Message-----
      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]

      Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 3:00 PM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [S-R] Digest Number 1496



      There are 12 messages in this issue.

      Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: Meri / Mari - First Born?
      From: Pennycope@...
      2. Re: Meri / Mari - First Born?
      From: "mlthrush" <mlthrush@...>
      3. RE: Meri / Mari - First Born?
      From: "Bill Tarkulich" <bill.tarkulich@...>
      4. RE: Meri / Mari - First Born?
      From: "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...>
      5. RE: Meri / Mari - First Born?
      From: "Bill Tarkulich" <bill.tarkulich@...>
      6. Re: Meri / Mari - First Born?
      From: nhasior@...
      7. RE: Meri / Mari - First Born?
      From: "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...>
      8. Re: Hello from a new member
      From: "capnkirk_93591" <capnkirk_93591@...>
      9. Re: Hello from a new member
      From: "capnkirk_93591" <capnkirk_93591@...>
      10. Re: Info
      From: MCMAN1@...
      11. Re: Hello from a new member
      From: nhasior@...
      12. RE: Hello from a new member
      From: "Bill Tarkulich" <bill.tarkulich@...>


      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 1
      Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 16:40:55 EDT
      From: Pennycope@...
      Subject: Re: Meri / Mari - First Born?

      My grandmother was Marie (Mary after she came to US) and aunt who was
      1st
      born was also Marie (Mary after she came to US).

      Marilyn


      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 2
      Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 22:10:23 -0000
      From: "mlthrush" <mlthrush@...>
      Subject: Re: Meri / Mari - First Born?

      Okay, everyone, in my husband's family, his mother from Sambron,
      Saros was the oldest daughter and named Maria. There were two sons
      named Peter. The first one died and the second, born the following
      year was then given the same name, Peter.

      My grandmother was named Maria also but I haven't had any luck
      finding her records in Lubovec, Saros so I don't know her birth
      order. This is complicated by the fact that on all her documents in
      the US she lists her maiden name as the same as her married name!
      She came from a different village than my grandfather and I haven't
      been able to determine if she actually had the same last name. I
      believe she was my grandfather's second wife. Has anyone heard of
      two families with the same last name marrying in the old country.
      Did cousins marry each other back then, around 1905. Or could this
      be a coincedence, like two Smiths marrying? By the way, Maria named
      her first born daughter Helene (in US)

      Mary Lou


      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Pennycope@a... wrote:
      > My grandmother was Marie (Mary after she came to US) and aunt who
      was 1st
      > born was also Marie (Mary after she came to US).
      >
      > Marilyn



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 3
      Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 20:29:56 -0400
      From: "Bill Tarkulich" <bill.tarkulich@...>
      Subject: RE: Meri / Mari - First Born?

      I have never seen two same surnames names marry each other in
      E.Slovakia. Marriage of 1st cousins was a social taboo. Once it got out
      farther than that, it very well may have happened, especially in
      villages of 300 persons.

      ______________
      Bill Tarkulich




      -----Original Message-----
      From: mlthrush [mailto:mlthrush@...]
      Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 6:10 PM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Meri / Mari - First Born?


      Okay, everyone, in my husband's family, his mother from Sambron,
      Saros was the oldest daughter and named Maria. There were two sons
      named Peter. The first one died and the second, born the following
      year was then given the same name, Peter.

      My grandmother was named Maria also but I haven't had any luck
      finding her records in Lubovec, Saros so I don't know her birth
      order. This is complicated by the fact that on all her documents in
      the US she lists her maiden name as the same as her married name!
      She came from a different village than my grandfather and I haven't
      been able to determine if she actually had the same last name. I
      believe she was my grandfather's second wife. Has anyone heard of
      two families with the same last name marrying in the old country.
      Did cousins marry each other back then, around 1905. Or could this
      be a coincedence, like two Smiths marrying? By the way, Maria named
      her first born daughter Helene (in US)

      Mary Lou


      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Pennycope@a... wrote:
      > My grandmother was Marie (Mary after she came to US) and aunt who
      was 1st
      > born was also Marie (Mary after she came to US).
      >
      > Marilyn




      To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
      SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      Yahoo! Groups Links









      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 4
      Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 20:45:11 -0400
      From: "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...>
      Subject: RE: Meri / Mari - First Born?

      I have looked at a village where there was so much intermarriage between
      a relatively small number of families over the centuries that not only
      did husband and wife have the same name, their witness names were also
      the same. Janet


      -----Original Message-----
      From: mlthrush [mailto:mlthrush@...]
      Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 5:10 PM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Meri / Mari - First Born?

      Okay, everyone, in my husband's family, his mother from Sambron,
      Saros was the oldest daughter and named Maria. There were two sons
      named Peter. The first one died and the second, born the following
      year was then given the same name, Peter.

      My grandmother was named Maria also but I haven't had any luck
      finding her records in Lubovec, Saros so I don't know her birth
      order. This is complicated by the fact that on all her documents in
      the US she lists her maiden name as the same as her married name!
      She came from a different village than my grandfather and I haven't
      been able to determine if she actually had the same last name. I
      believe she was my grandfather's second wife. Has anyone heard of
      two families with the same last name marrying in the old country.
      Did cousins marry each other back then, around 1905. Or could this
      be a coincedence, like two Smiths marrying? By the way, Maria named
      her first born daughter Helene (in US)

      Mary Lou


      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Pennycope@a... wrote:
      > My grandmother was Marie (Mary after she came to US) and aunt who
      was 1st
      > born was also Marie (Mary after she came to US).
      >
      > Marilyn




      To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
      SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      Yahoo! Groups Links








      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 5
      Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 21:46:35 -0400
      From: "Bill Tarkulich" <bill.tarkulich@...>
      Subject: RE: Meri / Mari - First Born?

      Janet,
      I'd be interested in hearing about this village. What was its
      population? Religion? Name of village and location? Time period
      involved. Thanks,

      ______________
      Bill Tarkulich




      -----Original Message-----
      From: Janet Kozlay [mailto:kozlay@...]
      Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 8:45 PM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [S-R] Meri / Mari - First Born?


      I have looked at a village where there was so much intermarriage between
      a relatively small number of families over the centuries that not only
      did husband and wife have the same name, their witness names were also
      the same. Janet


      -----Original Message-----
      From: mlthrush [mailto:mlthrush@...]
      Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 5:10 PM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Meri / Mari - First Born?

      Okay, everyone, in my husband's family, his mother from Sambron,
      Saros was the oldest daughter and named Maria. There were two sons
      named Peter. The first one died and the second, born the following
      year was then given the same name, Peter.

      My grandmother was named Maria also but I haven't had any luck
      finding her records in Lubovec, Saros so I don't know her birth
      order. This is complicated by the fact that on all her documents in
      the US she lists her maiden name as the same as her married name!
      She came from a different village than my grandfather and I haven't
      been able to determine if she actually had the same last name. I
      believe she was my grandfather's second wife. Has anyone heard of
      two families with the same last name marrying in the old country.
      Did cousins marry each other back then, around 1905. Or could this
      be a coincedence, like two Smiths marrying? By the way, Maria named
      her first born daughter Helene (in US)

      Mary Lou


      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Pennycope@a... wrote:
      > My grandmother was Marie (Mary after she came to US) and aunt who
      was 1st
      > born was also Marie (Mary after she came to US).
      >
      > Marilyn




      To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
      SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      Yahoo! Groups Links









      To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
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      Yahoo! Groups Links









      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 6
      Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 22:01:01 EDT
      From: nhasior@...
      Subject: Re: Meri / Mari - First Born?

      mary lou,
      yes, i saw bride and groom with the same surname in both of my
      grandparents'
      families. the names were so popular in the home village that they may
      have
      been distant cousins. i tried to see where they may have been realated.
      if they
      were, it was many, many generations back. and yes, the witnesses would
      have
      the same name many times as sisters, brothers etc. stood up for their
      siblings.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 7
      Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 22:18:48 -0400
      From: "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...>
      Subject: RE: Meri / Mari - First Born?

      Bill, it was from the Evangelical records from Zaturcsa, Turocz megye,
      in the 19th century. Most of the records were for noble families from
      Also and Felso Ruttka, and as you might expect, many of them were named
      Ruttkay. The Ruttkays had several branches (Ruttkay Miklian, Ruttkay
      Matusovits, Ruttkay Dauko, etc.), but often the records did not indicate
      which branch the individual belonged to--he or she was just a "Ruttkay."
      I have also seen marriage records there where the wife and the husband's
      mother shared the same family name. I do not mean to suggest that there
      were marriages between close relatives, but there were a limited number
      of noble families from which to choose an eligible marriage partner. I
      suspect that all this intermarriage was partially responsible for some
      of the migration south of these families. Janet


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Bill Tarkulich [mailto:bill.tarkulich@...]
      Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 8:47 PM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [S-R] Meri / Mari - First Born?

      Janet,
      I'd be interested in hearing about this village. What was its
      population? Religion? Name of village and location? Time period
      involved. Thanks,

      ______________
      Bill Tarkulich




      -----Original Message-----
      From: Janet Kozlay [mailto:kozlay@...]
      Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 8:45 PM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [S-R] Meri / Mari - First Born?


      I have looked at a village where there was so much intermarriage between
      a relatively small number of families over the centuries that not only
      did husband and wife have the same name, their witness names were also
      the same. Janet


      -----Original Message-----
      From: mlthrush [mailto:mlthrush@...]
      Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 5:10 PM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Meri / Mari - First Born?

      Okay, everyone, in my husband's family, his mother from Sambron,
      Saros was the oldest daughter and named Maria. There were two sons
      named Peter. The first one died and the second, born the following
      year was then given the same name, Peter.

      My grandmother was named Maria also but I haven't had any luck
      finding her records in Lubovec, Saros so I don't know her birth
      order. This is complicated by the fact that on all her documents in
      the US she lists her maiden name as the same as her married name!
      She came from a different village than my grandfather and I haven't
      been able to determine if she actually had the same last name. I
      believe she was my grandfather's second wife. Has anyone heard of
      two families with the same last name marrying in the old country.
      Did cousins marry each other back then, around 1905. Or could this
      be a coincedence, like two Smiths marrying? By the way, Maria named
      her first born daughter Helene (in US)

      Mary Lou


      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Pennycope@a... wrote:
      > My grandmother was Marie (Mary after she came to US) and aunt who
      was 1st
      > born was also Marie (Mary after she came to US).
      >
      > Marilyn




      To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
      SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      Yahoo! Groups Links









      To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
      SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      Yahoo! Groups Links










      To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
      SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      Yahoo! Groups Links








      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 8
      Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 04:22:51 -0000
      From: "capnkirk_93591" <capnkirk_93591@...>
      Subject: Re: Hello from a new member

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, nhasior@a... wrote:
      > In a message dated 5/29/04 1:33:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
      > capnkirk_93591@y... writes:
      >
      > > My ancestors surnames are Kakara and Dzuresko and they are
      supposed
      > > to be from Presov.
      > >
      >
      > Hello Kirk and welcome,
      > are your ancestors from the city of Presov or the County of Presov? my
      > father's mother was always known as 'being from Presov"
      > as it turns out, grandma was from the County of Presov, town of
      Raslavice.
      > Noreen
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      Noreen:

      I have no idea. My grandfather and his siblings were very secretive
      about their past. They lived off the grid before it existed. They
      simply don't appear on censuses, etc. The non black sheep branch in
      Illinois doesn't have any information on the Slavokian roots.

      Kirk



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 9
      Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 04:26:24 -0000
      From: "capnkirk_93591" <capnkirk_93591@...>
      Subject: Re: Hello from a new member

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John M," <jmatsko4@c...> wrote:
      > At 05:31 PM 5/29/2004 +0000, you wrote:
      > >My name is Kirk Nitz.
      > >
      > >I am wondering if anyone is an expert or is familiar with Presov?
      > >
      > >My ancestors surnames are Kakara and Dzuresko and they are supposed
      > >to be from Presov.
      > >
      > >Thanks for your time and this group.
      >
      > I'm definitely not an expert on Presov but do have relatives living
      > there. The Slovak online directory shows Anna Kakarova, in Presov
      and
      > about six other Kakarova and seven Kakara in Slovakia. I did not
      find any
      > Dzuresko in Slovakia but found two Dzuric^ko (pronounced Dzurichko)
      in
      > Presov. http://www.zoznamst.sk/eng/index.html

      >
      > What have you done to date in trying to confirm their town, locate
      their
      > arrival, etc?
      >
      > John M.

      John:

      Thanks for the info.

      I am against a brickwall and my head is getting sore.

      Do you know how I can contact the Kakaras?

      Kirk



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 10
      Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 01:16:55 EDT
      From: MCMAN1@...
      Subject: Re: Info

      Hello Karen,
      My Aunt Rose Fratick mentioned to me before she died
      that
      she had relatives in Bucks Co. We are in Delaware Co. Pa. My
      grandfathers
      first name was Andrew he was married to Mary Horvanek. They came to the
      US in
      around 1900. I was always told we were Slovak. Our neighborhood is
      Slovak and
      at one time we had a Slovak American Citizens Club. I believe my
      grandfather
      had a brother who settled in Bucks county. I do know that our name was
      americanized years ago. Thank you for your response Joe Fratick


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 11
      Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 07:10:13 EDT
      From: nhasior@...
      Subject: Re: Hello from a new member

      In a message dated 5/31/2004 12:25:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
      capnkirk_93591@... writes:


      > have no idea. My grandfather and his siblings were very secretive
      > about their past. They lived off the grid before it existed. They
      > simply don't appear on censuses, etc. The non black sheep branch in
      > Illinois doesn't have any information on the Slavokian roots.
      >

      Kirk,
      Can you get access to the church records of your parents? The church
      where
      your parents were baptized will have a ledger in the rectory with the
      information you seek. it will contain the origin of birth of your
      grandparents. Out
      of your four grandparents listed on your parents' church records, at
      least one
      or two of them will have the village of origin rather than the county of

      origin. maybe you will be lucky and all four baptismal records will
      have the
      village. it is important that you ask to see the ledger, not get a copy
      of the
      baptismal certificate. the certificate, as you know, has very little
      information
      on it. However, the ledger will have lots and lots of useful
      information. i
      was fortunate in that the person in charge of the records at the rectory

      offered to photocopy the two ledger pages from my grandparents. She was
      not too
      friendly at first, but became one of my most helpful sources of
      information
      after awhile.
      Noreen


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 12
      Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 07:43:04 -0400
      From: "Bill Tarkulich" <bill.tarkulich@...>
      Subject: RE: Hello from a new member

      Hello Kirk,

      Before you pursue any further self-flagellation, let's try to clarify
      what you're trying to accomplish here. Are you looking for relatives?
      Trying to build a family tree?

      John has also asked you a critical question. What research have you
      have conducted to-date? There are a lot of knowledgeable people here,
      but we need some further guidance from you before we can assist in any
      substantive way.

      Simply picking up the phone and calling (or writing) people with similar
      surnames is not recommended, without having done adequate research
      first. You'll likely end up calling unrelated people and blow your
      chance at a dialog. People move. Similar surnames are found throughout
      the country.

      There's no silver bullet here, although much of the information is at
      your fingertips. You have to put some time into doing the detective
      work, just like everyone else on this forum who has been sucessful.

      You'll need to begin by identifying your ancestral villages. It's not
      that difficult to do. There are several stateside sources for this
      information. Most of us have started with little or zero knowledge too.

      I suggest you read this material first
      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/strategy.htm - A research strategy
      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm - Identifying your
      ancestor's village(s) You can bang your head later after you've
      exhausted these resources.

      It is also helpful to include in your reply some info about your
      immigrants. Please approximate dates for: birth and immigration,
      marriage stateside or in Europe, Religion, language spoken, places
      lived.

      It is not suprising you have not found anything in US census. This is a
      snapshot of one day in time. Happens to a lot of us.


      ______________
      Bill Tarkulich




      -----Original Message-----
      From: capnkirk_93591 [mailto:capnkirk_93591@...]
      Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 12:26 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Hello from a new member


      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John M," <jmatsko4@c...> wrote:
      > At 05:31 PM 5/29/2004 +0000, you wrote:
      > >My name is Kirk Nitz.
      > >
      > >I am wondering if anyone is an expert or is familiar with Presov?
      > >
      > >My ancestors surnames are Kakara and Dzuresko and they are supposed
      > >to be from Presov.
      > >
      > >Thanks for your time and this group.
      >
      > I'm definitely not an expert on Presov but do have relatives living
      > there. The Slovak online directory shows Anna Kakarova, in Presov
      and
      > about six other Kakarova and seven Kakara in Slovakia. I did not
      find any
      > Dzuresko in Slovakia but found two Dzuric^ko (pronounced Dzurichko)
      in
      > Presov. http://www.zoznamst.sk/eng/index.html

      >
      > What have you done to date in trying to confirm their town, locate
      their
      > arrival, etc?
      >
      > John M.

      John:

      Thanks for the info.

      I am against a brickwall and my head is getting sore.

      Do you know how I can contact the Kakaras?

      Kirk




      To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
      SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      Yahoo! Groups Links









      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________


      To unsubscribe from this group, go to
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