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[S-R] Re: Slovak Surnames Gyurkovics

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  • Frank
    ... to the first name of the father. Therefore I said, this does not always mean .. son of, although he is always a son of somebody. Vuk is a normal serbian
    Message 1 of 6 , May 9 7:09 AM
      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Vladimir Bohinc" <konekta@n...> wrote=
      :
      > Dear Frank,
      > I will try to keep this simple;
      > Gyurkovic or Jurkovic means son of Jurko, yes. Jurko is a first name.
      > But I gave you examples of surnames ending with ..ic, which do not refer =
      to the first name of the father. Therefore I said, this does
      not always mean .. son of, although he is always a son of somebody.
      > Vuk is a normal serbian first name. (politician Vuk Draskovic for example=
      )
      > According to my experience I would say, Jurkovic surname is originally cr=
      oatian. There are very many croatian surnames in
      Slovakia, since they migrated here begfore the Turks.
      > A form Gyurkovic I would say is more from the East of Slovakia. However, =
      after the Turks left, lots of Croats and Slovaks migrated
      to
      Croatia and Vojvodina (Serbia), so it is possible, that you find some surna=
      mes there, that were originally croat, were slightly changed
      in Slovakia and came back there again. Very complex issue.
      > If you find any surname with ..ic ending in Slovenia, it is most probably=
      not slovene. This is how we distingush them.
      > We say :" Oh you are ..ic?" Everybody knows, what that means. Not Slovene=
      .
      > When researching, I do not bother all these minor differences in spelling=
      , which appear to confuse many private researchers.
      > Jurkovic is always a Jurkovic, however you spell it.
      > From my collection of ancient surnames from 16th and 17th century some in=
      teresting spellings:
      > Gywrko
      > Gywren
      > Gywrisouich
      > Gywrowech
      > Here you see, that the letter W is being used for U.
      > Now imagine this;
      > I have a music cassette with old folk songs from Wales in UK. One of the =
      songs has a title Cw Cw.
      > As long as I did not her it, I could not imagine how to pronounce this. I=
      t's Cuckoo!
      > Vladimir

      Dear Vladimir,

      Todate think above was your best explanation of surname meanings..

      Between 1683-1718, Croatia (Rijeka to beyond Zagreb), Royal Hungary
      (from Drava River to beyond Bratislava (Sk) Pozsony (H), and Slovakia to
      beyond Kos^ice (Sk) Kassa (H) were one contiguous territory.
      In 1683 the Ottoman Turks retreated from Vienna and the Habsburgs
      pressed forward and acquired most of old Hungary , the rest of Croatia,
      and most of Slavonia.
      In 1716 the Ottomans invaded Hungary-Croatia but were annihilated.
      By the time of the peace treaty (1718) the Habsburg added the Banat,
      the rest of Slavonia and a strip of northern Bosnia and Serbia.

      Maly' Sulín (Slovak) Szulin (H) was established in 1600. It was part of
      the property of his lordship Plavec^ * and his own Croatian nobility,
      who had established the neighboring village of Vel'ké Sulín (S) at the
      end of the 16th century.

      Towns of Plavnica and Plavec^, Slovakia were also part of the property
      of the Croatian nobility.
      * Plavnica, Plavec^ and nearby Plavec^ castle (Plavec^sky' hrad)

      "Slovenian language is related to the Basque language which is
      related to the Celtic languages.
      The ethnogenesis of the Slovenian nation starts with the arrival of
      the Veneti on the territory of today's Slovenia 3000 years ago.
      The archaic nature of the Slovenian language, its similarity to the
      Sanskrit and similarity to the venetic inscriptions bear witness to the
      continuing evolution of the Slovenian ethnic entity."

      The Welsh language, Gymraeg, belongs to the Celtic branch of the
      Indo-European language family and is the largest Celtic language in
      number of speakers (500,000+)

      Please .
      Os gwelwch yn dda. (Welsh)
      (os gwel-ookh uhn thah)

      cuckoo (E)
      kuku (Basque)
      cuach (Gaelic)
      kukavica (Slovene)
      kukavica (Croatian)
      kukuc^ka (Slovak)
      kakukk (magyar)

      ( Welsh)
      (n.) cog [-au, f.], cwcw [-od, f.], gwirionyn [m.]
      Cog is a bird.
      Cwcw is a bird.
      Gwirionyn is cuckoo as a simpleton.

      n. noun
      f. feminine gender
      m. masculine gender

      Frank K

      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Frank
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 3:54 PM
      > Subject: [S-R] Re: Slovak Surnames Gyurkovics
      >
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Vladimir Bohinc" <konekta@n...> w=
      rote=
      > :
      > > Dear Frank,
      > > Gyurkovics is not in that book. All the other surnames to the theme w=
      ere =
      > from that book of slovak surnames from Yugoslavia.
      > > Gyurkovits is not a misspelling of Gyurkovics. It is how the Germans =
      wrot=
      > e it.
      > > Burgenland is an Eastern province of Austria, where very many Croats =
      are =
      > living. Almost all of their surnames end with ..ts.
      > > When you say that ...ic or ...ics when attached to a surname means so=
      n of=
      > in all slavic languages then I have to elaborate a little
      > on
      > this.
      > > My name is Vladimir Bohinc
      > > My father was Anton Bohinc
      > > If I were russian, I would have a name Vladimir Antonovic Bohinc. So =
      Anto=
      > novic is the part of the name, which tells, whose son I
      > am.
      > > There are very many slavic surnames which have ..ic ending, but do no=
      t re=
      > fer to the first name of the father.
      > > They rather refer to the family as such or a clan.
      > > Deak to Deakovic, Gresko to Greskovic etc.
      > > Slovaks have some special endings that would signify this like ...ech=
      . M=
      > inar to Minarech, Masar to Masarech,
      > > Kucko to Kuckech.
      > > In general, of course, a surname always tells, that somebody is a son=
      of =
      > somebody, who had the same surname.
      > > But referring to the first name of the father, it is not always the c=
      ase.=
      >
      > > Vladimir
      >
      >
      > Dear Vladimir,
      >
      > Let me elaborate on my understanding how the surname affix -ovich or
      > -ovic^ whose spelling varies from language to language almost always m=
      eans=
      > "son
      > of." in Slavic languages.
      > As you wrote the use of a Russian patronymic based on father's name cou=
      ld b=
      > e
      > an exception.
      > A Hungarian patronymic could also be formed by adding -fi to the father=
      's
      > name.
      > This is an abbreviation of -fia, meaning "his son", and has also record=
      ed
      > as -fi, -fia, -fy, -fÿ, and others.
      > Example, István Lászlófi (Stephen, son of Laszlo).
      >
      > Am also familiar with Burgenland.
      > I had assumed the search was for surnames Gyurkovics and Gyurkovits fro=
      m
      > Upper-Hungary (Slovakia), but the search seems to have been everywhere=
      but=
      >
      > in Slovakia ?
      >
      > In the Croatian telephone directoryI found surnames Gjurkovic'
      > and Djurkovic'.
      > The Croatian letter "c'" is pronounced as " ch ".
      > This angular "c'" is used when c is the last letter in a Croatian
      > surname.
      > This surname means "son of George" in Croatian.
      > The Croatian surname suffix -ovic (pron. ovich) means " son of ".
      > A more common surname is Vukovic' (Vukovich) meaning "son of wolf" (cla=
      n
      > name)
      > Or are there different wolf names as well ?
      > There are the Serbian male names Vucko and Vuk.
      > Slovenian doesn't use this "c'" character but uses c^ instead.
      > This letter "c^" is also pronounced as " ch ".
      > This letter is also the equivalent of the Slovak letter "c^" pron. "ch"=
      .
      >
      > In the Slovakia telephone directory found one surname Gyürkövic^
      > listed under Kruz^ná.
      > This looks like an adaptation of a Hungarian given name + the Slovak
      > diacritic letter c^ pron. ch.
      > (Magyar uses the vowel ö pron. e)
      > Under Bratislava 6 surnames are listed; 4 spelled as Gyurkovics , 1
      > spelled Gyurkovic^, and 1 female gender surname as Gyurková.
      > Since the Hungarian diagraph "cs" was used in old Hungarian family name=
      s
      > it predates the Slovak diacritic c^ (about 1850) so probably another
      > adaptation of spelling.
      > The Slovak surname affix -ovic^ also means "son of".
      >
      > By the way, -owicz is just the Polish way of spelling the suffix we see=

      > inmany other Slavic names as -ovich or -ovic^ (using ^ to indicate the
      > so-called hac^ek in Czech)
      > The spelling varies from language to language, but it almost always
      > means "son of."
      > What happened here is that the possessive ending -ow/-ew had the
      > suffix -icz tacked onto it.
      > That suffix -icz or -ycz is how Poles once said "son of," so that
      > "son of Jan" was Janicz or Janycz; "son of Kuba" was Kubicz or Kubycz. =

      > But as time went on the Poles were influenced by the tendency of other
      > Slavs to use -owicz or -ewicz instead of plain -icz.
      >
      > Some surnames in eastern Slovakia also changed the letter cs to c^ as
      > in surname Gyurkovic^.
      > And some fem. gender versions just addded the affix -ová to the existin=
      g
      > surname Gyurkovics (since it can't have been spelled Gyurkovits)
      >
      >
      > Interestingly, the Canadian telephone directory lists both the
      > surnames Gyurkovics and Gyurokovits.
      > And the surname spelled Gyürkövic^ (probably once spelled Gyurkovics ? =
      ) is=
      >
      > listed under Kruz^ná, Slovakia.
      >
      > Frank K
      >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: Frank
      > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:31 PM
      > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Slovak Surnames Gyurkovics
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Vladimir Bohinc" <konekta@n..=
      .> w=
      > rote=
      > > :
      > > > Dear Frank,
      > > > In Hungarian surname Gyurkovics means "son of George" .
      > > > I would not agree with this for at least two reasons:
      > > > - Gyurkovics is not hungarian meaning, only a hungarian spelling,=
      In =
      > hung=
      > > arian, it has no meaning. It may well be, that the first who
      > > was named Gyurkovics actually was a son of a George, but this is be=
      yond=
      > res=
      > > earch possibilities.
      > > > - the theory, that -ic or -ics means son of also does not hold, =
      beca=
      > use =
      > > there are numerous examples, where the surname ending
      > > with -ic or -ics is not derived from the first name like Valo - Val=
      ovic=
      > , Pe=
      > > kar- Pekarovic etc, etc.
      > > > This theory holds in russian, but only sporadically in other lang=
      uage=
      > s - =
      > > ethnics.
      > > > While Juraj = Juro = Duro = Gyuro= George, here some variations o=
      n th=
      > is s=
      > > urname:
      > > > Durak
      > > > Duranec
      > > > Duranic
      > > > Duras
      > > > Durcak
      > > > Durcan
      > > > Durcek
      > > > Durciansky
      > > > Durcok
      > > > Durec
      > > > Durek
      > > > Durianec
      > > > Durica
      > > > Duricek
      > > > Durik
      > > > Durina
      > > > Durinec
      > > > Duris
      > > > Durisin
      > > > Durka
      > > > Durko
      > > > Durkov
      > > > Durkovic
      > > > Durkovsky
      > > > Duros
      > > > Durov
      > > > Durovic
      > > > Durovka
      > > > Durovsky
      > > > Jurak
      > > > Jurani
      > > > Juranyi,
      > > > Juras
      > > > Jurca
      > > > Jurdal
      > > > Jurenak
      > > > Jurica
      > > > Juricek
      > > > Jurik
      > > > Jurkovic
      > > > Gyurkovic
      > > > and the rest, starting with Gj or Gy.
      > > > Vladimir
      > >
      > > Dear Vladimir,
      > >
      > > You wrote
      > > > Gyurkovics is not hungarian meaning, only a hungarian spelling.
      > >
      > > The surname ending "-ics" pron. ick was not native to Hungarian but=
      was=
      >
      > > a Hungarian phonetic meaning derived from other languages.
      > > I know George was spelled György in Hungarian and as Georgius in Sl=
      oven=
      > e.
      > > And George is also D'uro, Djuro, Gjuro in Croatian.
      > > The affix meaning "son of " when attached to a surname still holds=
      tru=
      > e in=
      > > all
      > > the Slavic languages.
      > >
      > > Your listing of possible surnames that can be derived from a given =
      name=
      >
      > > is entirely another matter which I don't dispute.
      > > Durak => Juricek
      > >
      > > The Poles did the same thing and derived over 120 different surname=
      s
      > > from the their given name Jan (John) by just adding different suffi=
      xes
      > > to given name.
      > >
      > > Kelly Gyurkovits had a surname which appeared to be a
      > > misspelling of the original surname supposedly from Hungary which =
      was
      > > Gyurkovics.
      > > >From Kruz^na and Brzotín, Slovakia.
      > > How many of your above surname spelling were from Gömör és Kishont =
      megy=
      > e,
      > > Hungary ?
      > >
      > > I did identify the Last Residence or birthplace of all the surnames=

      > > Gyurkovits listed in the Ellis Island Records 1892-1924 and checke=
      d to=
      > see=
      > > if any
      > > were from Slovakia.
      > > Beyond that I don't know whether they are related to any surnames i=
      n
      > > your listing of other surnames and don't think that it really matte=
      rs a=
      > t th=
      > > is point.
      > >
      > > 13 surnames Gyurkovits listed in EIR 1892-1924
      > > In 1921 4 surnames emigrated from Sátoraljaújhely.
      > > Sátoraljaújhely was always located and still is in Hungary.
      > > It never became part of Slovakia after the WW I Hungarian peace tre=
      aty.=
      >
      > > Following the peace treaty with Hungary (1920) the border between
      > > Slovakia and Hungary was split near Sátoraljaúhely, Hungary, former=
      ly
      > > Zemplén Megye and Abaúj-Torna Megye.
      > > The Magyars had to combine counties as a result.
      > > Zemplén Megye was split in half, part remained in Hungary and part
      > > became Zemplin z^upa in Slovakia.
      > > Formerly Zemplén megye had extended almost to Miskolc (in Borsod me=
      gye)=
      >
      > > So parts of 3 former Hungarian counties were combined into a new
      > > Hungarian county now called Borsod-Abaúj-Zemplén Megye.
      > >
      > > In 1906 1 surname from Ungvár (H) Uz^gorod Uzhorod now in Ukraine o=
      nce
      > > located in Hungary.
      > > In 1909 2 surnames from O'palánka, formerly located in Bács-Bodrog
      > > megye and now in Serbia.
      > > In 1911 a surname from Kula Bács-Bodrog megye and now in Serbia.
      > > In 1903 3 surnames from Kurityán Borsod megye, Hungary.
      > > In 1900 a surname from Nyesta, Hungary which is located 28 miles SS=
      W of=
      >
      > > Kos^ice.
      > > In 1922 a surname from Ho"gyész which is still located in central H=
      unga=
      > ry.
      > > So I struck out with the spelling Gyurkovits as none were from Slov=
      akia=
      > .
      > > Then again if they didn't emigrate to USA the surnames were not li=
      sted=
      > .
      > >
      > > Just began to look at 58 surnames spelled Gyurkovics listed in EIR.=

      > > These seems to be a repeat with many surnames from Sátoraljaújhely,=

      > > Hungary ,Ungvár, Uz^gorod Uzhorod, Ukraine, Kurityán, Hungary, and =

      > > Kula now located in Serbia.
      > > Then perhaps this surname spelling is listed in your book from Serb=
      ia ?=
      >
      > >
      > > Frank K
      > >
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: Frank
      > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 12:21 PM
      > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Slovak Surnames Gyurkovics
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Kelly Gyurkovits" <kgyurk=
      ovit=
      > s@h.=
      > > ..> =
      > > > wrote:
      > > > > Dear Vladimir,
      > > > >
      > > > > I know you send there are many variations of the Gyurkovics =

      > > > > surname, Do you think you could give me as much on that name =
      as
      > > > > possible! from your book
      > > > >
      > > > > Thanks a Million
      > > > > Kelly Gyurkovits
      > > >
      > > > ahoj Kelly,
      > > >
      > > > In Slavic languages and Hungarian the unaccented letter "c" is =
      pron=
      > . as=
      > > "ts"=
      > > > .
      > > > In Hungarian the diagraph "cs" is pron. as "ch" and the letter =
      "gy"=
      > = d=
      > > y
      > > > which is pron. like letter "d" in word adulation.
      > > >
      > > > Hungarians had a surname ending -ics which was not native to Hu=
      ngar=
      > ian
      > > > but a phonetic adaptation i.e. written -ics pron. ick.
      > > > This was akin to South Slavic surname affix -ic'/-vic', -ovic' =
      pron=
      > .
      > > > ovich, meaning 'son of'.
      > > > Similar to Polish surname affix -owicz or -owycz which is pron=
      ounc=
      > ed
      > > > the same as and means the same thing as 'son of' (clan name) in=

      > > > Croatian.
      > > > This special ending also has the same meaning in Russian.
      > > > In Russian and Ukrainian -ovich/-ovych or -evich/-ovych (in Lat=
      in
      > > > alphabet)
      > > > O B |/| h (Rus Cyrillic)
      > > > 0 v i ch
      > > > O B y h (Ukr Cyrillic)
      > > > O v y ch
      > > >
      > > > The Slovak diacritic letter c^ is pron. ch.
      > > > The Croatian diacritic letter c' is pron. ch.
      > > > The Slovene diacritic letter c^ also pron. ch.
      > > > In Polish the letter cz is pron. ch.
      > > >
      > > > given names
      > > > George
      > > > György (dim. Gyorgy, Gyurika, Gyuris, Gyurko) (H)
      > > > Georgius (L)
      > > > Juraj (dim. Jurko, Juro) (Sk)
      > > > Georg (G0
      > > >
      > > > In Hungarian surname Gyurkovics means "son of George" .
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > If you go to online EIR you will note 58 surnames Gyurkovics li=
      sted=
      > .
      > > > Some have patronymic name György Gyurkovics which is an approp=
      riat=
      > e
      > > > version.
      > > > One was a Georg Gyurkovics.
      > > > These EIR surnames were from both Upper-Hungary (Slovakia) and =
      Hung=
      > ary.=
      > >
      > > >
      > > > 13 surnames were spelled Gyurkovits and the majority were from =

      > > > the part of former Zemplén megye that remained in Hungary after=
      the=
      > WW =
      > > I
      > > > peace treaty.
      > > > One surname was from what was later the Ukraine.
      > > > Some surnames were misspelled as Gyurkovitz (German letter z is=
      pro=
      > n.
      > > > ts) and Gyorgyovit.
      > > > There were also other variant surname spellings listed you can =
      chec=
      > k at=
      > > EIR=
      > > > .
      > > >
      > > > -Nech sa pa'c^i
      > > >
      > > > FranK K
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.co=
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      > oup/=
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