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9863Re: [S-R] Digest Number 1466

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  • Vladimir Bohinc
    May 2, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear Frank,
      You have some good dictionnaries. But you see, a machine can not always find the right word for certain situation.
      Re pros and cons;
      in general, every nation here tries to prove, that members of their ethnicity were there first. This is a material for ethernal disputes, because some things can not be proven.
      Does not make much sense to get involved.
      Fact is what I wrote about the Slovaks in BP before. Maybe in 200 years, there will be no more.
      Vladimir

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Frank
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 2:52 AM
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Digest Number 1466


      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Vladimir Bohinc" <konekta@n...>
      wrote:
      > Dear Frank,
      > Now I have to say this word again;
      > I was there for two days and met many people. They all speak slovak
      among themselves. They feel very much slovak.
      > Since when a surname tells a religion?
      > The main church there , which is pretty large is lutheran and I was
      studying lutheran church records and even met the lutheran
      bishop.
      > The RC church is very small.
      > Besides that, there is also a religious sect called Nazareni, which
      might be similar to the Amish. They have no church books,
      which
      made me some trouble.
      > The book is written in Slovak ISBN 973-9292-49-6, compiled by
      Dr.Michael Dudok " Priezviska Slovakov v Juhoslavii"
      > I know
      > Serbian,
      > Croatian,
      > Slovenian,
      > Slovak,
      > English
      > German
      > Russian
      > Polish
      > some French
      > some Italian
      > some Spanish
      > A Slovenian never expects a foreigner to understand slovenian, so
      we just automatically switch to a foreign language when we have
      to do with one. English speaking people are not aware of this luxury
      they enjoy. They just hope, everybody will understand them, so
      there are very few, who care to learn a foreign language.
      > Kako ste is not realy very slovenian. Kako se imate?
      > Some of you have expressed interest in obtaining a status of
      expatriate Slovak. I can tell you, Slovaks in Backi Petrovac are
      doing
      this en masse. I was wittnessing many people, who on one side brought
      their applications to the office of Matica Slovenska, which is
      helping them in this affair, and then on the other side in the parish
      office, where some of them had to find their GGparents, which was
      needed for this application.
      > Regards,
      > Vladimir

      Dear Vladimir,

      That is a fantastic language knowledge !
      Yes. And a Czech would say Jak se máte ?
      Found imati in my Croatian dictionary and I now see Kako se imate ?
      listed under iméti in the Slovene dictionary.
      Still have conflict in what I have read about Slovaks in Bac^ki Petrovac on=
      WWW.
      How much is true and how much is Serbian propaganda.
      Didn't write it just read it.
      Expected perhaps a Potemkin village like elaborate fake village
      constructed for Catherine the Great's tour of the Ukraine.
      NATO and US bombed Serbia back in 1999.

      PRO
      (transliterated) from both Slovak and Serbian languages

      "Petrovac had first appeared in the 13th century when Petrovac is
      mentioned as a church parish belonging to Backa Zupanija. Later that
      name is changed into Petrovac.
      Its first inhabitants were the Hungarians and Serbs. In the first half
      of the 18th century (1745) the Slovaks settle here. Since then
      Petrovac developed so that it represents cultural, economic, and
      political
      center of the Slovaks in these parts.
      According to listing in 1992 year in B.P. live 7229 inhabitants,
      out of which 88% are the Slovaks, then 4% the Serbs, the remaining 8%
      are other nationalities. (before end of the war between the Serbs and the C=
      roats)
      Agriculture is the most important economic activity based on the
      production of field crops (wheat, corn, broom weed, sugar beet, hop),
      cattle, breeding and poulty and vegetable crops. Besides agriculture
      there is also some industry manufacture, metal and chemical.
      Manufacture of wood civil engineering, printing activities, etc."

      According to church records, there are approximately 50,000 Lutherans
      in the Slovak Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession in
      Serbia.
      About 76 percent of the ethnic Slovaks living in Vojvodina are
      Lutherans.
      Lutheranism was brought into this area by Slovak and German settlers
      in the first half of the 18th century, who were fleeing from the
      counter-reformation movement in the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
      They had guaranteed religious freedom in Vojvodina, which was freshly
      liberated from the Turks and mostly unpopulated at that time.
      The church is among the main reasons for preservation of Slovak
      national identity in Vojvodina for more than 250 years.

      CON

      Vojvodinian Slovaks

      Moreover, the offspring of ethnically mixed marriages in some
      predominantly Slovak settlements (e.g. Bac^ki Petrovac) often have
      not demonstrated a particular interest in being taught in the Slovak
      language.
      As a matter of fact, the Slovak-language grammar school in Bac^ki
      Petrovac and in Kovacica currently suffer both from a lack of
      adequate teaching staff and from a shortage in pupils interested in
      taking
      classes in the Slovak
      language. What is even more notable is that at the gymnasium of Stara
      Pazova (i.e. an area where over 7,000 ethnic Slovaks live) most
      subjects are taught in Serbian.
      On the other hand, there exist certain problems with the training of
      Slovak-language teachers, especially at the level of elementary
      education.
      In Vojvodina, the task of training elementary-level teachers is
      assigned to the Faculty for Elementary Teaching in Bac^ki Petrovac
      (i.e. an outpost of the Sombor-based Faculty for Elementary School
      Teachers).
      However, according to an opinion poll conducted in Vojvodina's
      predominantly Slovak localities, most locals do not regard this
      training as particularly useful, since the teaching-staff is larger
      n number than already required and most lectures, except some
      practice classes organized in Slovak, are held in Serbian.
      Due to financial problems persist. The library of the Department for
      Slovak Language and Literature at the University of Novi Sad, for
      instance, has hardly acquired any new reading material over the
      past ten years.

      Roman Catholics are usually in Croatia and Slovenija.
      The primary faith in Serbia is Orthodox Christian, with 65 percent,
      followed by Muslim (19 percent), Roman Catholic (4 percent),
      Protestant (1 percent), and other (11 percent).

      My conclusion was that if a surname researcher asked for surnames
      listed which must be census related in your book they would only be listed=

      if surnames practiced Lutheran religion.
      Most surname bearers from Slovakia were R.C. and a few were G.C.
      religion.
      Today, Slovakia is 60 % R.C., 10 % atheist, 8 % Protestant , 4 %
      Orthodox and 18 % other.
      Before WW I the R.C. percentage was much higher.

      Regards

      Frank K

      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Frank
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 8:25 PM
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Digest Number 1466
      >
      >
      > ahoj List
      >
      > Just downloaded [S-R] Digest number 1466 to my printer and ran out
      > of fpaper.
      > 20 messages and 59 pages long !.
      > Is there an invisible chain letter running ?
      > Mainly Yahoo! Group Links and an antivirus program from ISP
      > www.eset.sk.
      > repeat repeat .............
      >
      > I had meant to ask Vladimir B in what language his book of
      surnames
      > from Bac^ka Petrovac was written.
      > Slovak or Serbian ?
      > Does Vladimir also know Serbian ?
      >
      > Ako sa más^ ? Slovak
      >
      > Jak se máte ? Czech
      >
      > Kako ste ? Croatian/Slovene (Roman)
      >
      > K A K O C T E ? Serbian/Bulgarian (Cyrillic)
      > (k ah k o s t eh)
      >
      > Vojvodinian Slovaks
      >
      > The offspring of ethnically mixed marriages in some predominantly
      > Slovak settlements (e.g. Bac^ki Petrovac) often have not
      demonstrated
      > a particular interest in being taught in the Slovak language.
      > As a matter of fact, the Slovak-language grammar school in Bac^ki
      > Petrovac and in Kovacica currently suffer both from a lack of
      adequate
      > teaching staff and from a shortage in pupils interested in taking
      > classes in the Slovak language.
      > What is even more notable is that at the gymnasium of Stara
      > Pazova (i.e. an area where over 7,000 ethnic Slovaks live) most
      > subjects are taught in Serbian.
      > On the other hand, there exist certain problems with the training
      of
      > Slovak-language teachers, especially at the level of elementary
      education.=
      >
      > In Vojvodina, the task of training elementary-level teachers is
      > assigned to the Faculty for Elementary Teaching in Bac^ki
      Petrovac (i.e. a=
      > n
      > outpost of the Sombor-based Faculty for Elementary School
      Teachers).
      > However, according to an opinion poll conducted in Vojvodina's
      > predominantly Slovak localities, most locals do not regard this
      training as=
      >
      > particularly useful, since the teaching-staff is larger in number
      than alre=
      > ady
      > required and most lectures, except some practice classes
      organized in
      > Slovak, are held in Serbian.
      > Due to financial problems persist. The library of the Department
      for
      > SlovakLanguage and Literature at the University of Novi Sad, for
      > instance, has hardly acquired any new reading material over the
      past
      > ten years.
      >
      >
      > Further if your surnames were Lutheran religion I don't expect
      they
      > are listed in this book of surnames.
      >
      > According to church records, there are approximately 50,000
      Lutherans
      > in the Slovak Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession in
      Serbia.
      > About 76 percent of the ethnic Slovaks living in Vojvodina are
      Lutherans.
      >
      > http://jankolar.tripod.com/bp.htm
      >
      > Frank K
      >
      >
      >
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