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7241[S-R] Re: surname spelling changes

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  • Frank
    Apr 30, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Anne Sprentz" <asprentz@w...>
      wrote:
      > Frank,
      > I have one other thing I'd like to ask you about and then I'll quit
      > pestering you. This ties in with the 'cs' ending making the 'ch'
      sound in
      > Hungarian.
      >
      > I have three versions of this surname on documents, all after she
      came to
      > the states.
      >
      > Mary Szedlovics .....written on baptism record of son in 1907
      > Mary Helen Szedlovich.....written on sons application for Social
      Security
      > 1936
      > Mary Setlowitz.....written on sons birth record in 1907
      >
      > This is the wife of Mihaly Sprencz/Princz. These are the *only*
      records I
      > have with her name on them.
      > According to sons baptism record, she was born in 1880 in Ungvar,
      Ung megye,
      > which is now Uzhhorod, Ukraine.
      >
      > I'm trying to take into account that even though she was listed as
      Magyar on
      > sons birth record, she may not have actually been Hungarian.
      >
      > Have been told that the "sz" is not Hungarian. Know that the 's' in
      > Hungarian sounds like "sh'. You mentioned that the "cs' in
      Hungarian sounds
      > like 'ch', but why would a spelling of Szedlovich also be spelled
      Setlowitz
      > This is very confusing for me.
      >
      > Could you give me some examples of spelling/sounds of this name that
      might
      > (1) help me to find her or her family name before coming to the
      states, (on
      > ship manifest) and (2) something spelled "americanized" to help me
      find her
      > on census records here in the states. Which spellings would come
      from which
      > ethnicity? I'm starting to think she may have been
      Lithuanian/Polish from
      > all the other spellings I've found.

      Anne,

      I have no problem with that.

      Hungarians had a surname ending -ics which was not native to
      Hungarian but a phonetic adaptation i.e. written -ics pron. ick.

      This was akin to South Slavic surname affix -ic'/-vic', -ovic' pron.
      ovich, meaning 'son of'.
      Pronounced the same as and means the same thing as 'son of' (clan
      name) in Croatian.
      Similar to Polish surname affix -owicz or -owycz which is
      pronounced the same as and also means the same thing as 'son of'
      (clan name)
      This special ending also has the same meaning in Russian.


      In Hungarian, the letter 'sz' is pron. s.
      In Polish , letter 'sz' is pron. sh.
      In Hungarian, the letter s is pron. sh and in Slovak the letter
      s^ is pron. sh.
      Since letter 'cs' is pron. ch, surname Szedovics might be spelled
      Szedlovich or Sedlovic^ (ch)
      Setlowitz could be the German spelling.

      Hungarian and Slovak don't use the letter w.
      Letters q, w, x appear only in foreign words and surnames.
      In most Slavic languages the letter v is pron. v.
      In German and Polish the letter w is pron. v.
      In German the letter v is pron. f, v.

      Ungvár (H)
      Uz^horod (Cz, Sk)
      Uzhhorod (Ukr)
      Uzhgorod (Rus)

      Russian has no H sound/letter, but a hard G.
      Ukrainian has no G sound/letter, but a hard H.


      In 1880 Ung megye was part of Hungary.
      The area of today's Karpatho-Ukraine was part of the Kingdom of
      Hungary from the 10th century to 1919, and formed the counties,
      comitatus in Latin, which was the legal language of
      administration until 1844, Komitat or Gespannschaft in German,
      Megye in Magyar), of Ung,(capital Ungvár), Bereg (Beregszasz),
      U-gocsa (Nagy-Szállos), and Máramaros (Marmaros-Szighet).
      They did not form a special administrative area during Hungarian
      rule.

      After peace treaty (1920) the newly formed country of Czechoslovakia
      was formed from Bohemia, Moravia, and Austrian-Silesia and Slovakia
      and Karpatho-Ukraine.

      The larger part, with an area of 12,600 km or 5,400 sq. miles, was
      annexed by the newly created Czechoslovak Republic, or CSR, a
      smaller part of Marmaros Komitat by Romania.
      Both countries gave cities and villages new official names.

      The parts taken by the CSR were organized into the province of
      Podkarpatska Rus, divided into four Z^upy (Uz^horod, Mukac^evo,
      Berehovo, Marmaros^) whose boundaries followed roughly the old
      Komitat boundaries.The county capitals were Uz^horod, (Ungvár),
      Berehova, (Beregszasz), Mukac^evo (Munkács, German Munkatsch),
      while the new capital of Czech Marmaros was Chust
      (Huszt), since Máramarossziget was now the capital of Romanian
      Marmaros under the name of Sighetul Marmariei.


      The area had been promised autonomy in 1919, and finally
      received it in October 1938 in the wake of the Munich agreement.
      However, the Southern strip, populated mainly by Magyars (ethnic
      Hungarians), was returned to Hungary, which annexed the remainder
      of the area in March 1939.
      In 1939, Hungary forcibily annexed Subcarpathian Rus' (then part of
      Czechoslovakia.

      The Karpatho-Ukraine was annexed in June 1945 by the Soviet Union.
      Since 1991, it is part of the independent Republic Ukraine.

      For genealogists, the boundary changes, especially when dividing of
      a village from its county capital, where many records were collected,
      presents great challenges.


      The problem now is, that inorder to obtain surname records, you need
      to write the Ukrainian Archives in Ukrainian Cyrillic alphabet.

      For example, Kiev
      K | | B (Cyrillic)
      K i i v

      If they ever replied, answer would also be written in Ukrainian.
      It good times, the Archives sometimes replied after a year, or
      never.

      From the late 1700s until the end of WW I, Poland did not exist as a
      country. It was divided among the Russian, German (Prussian), and
      Austrian Empires. These divisions were known as Partitions.

      The former Russian Empire included Poland, Lithuania, Latvia ,
      Estonia , Belarus (Byelorussia), and parts of the Ukraine.
      Since this is not germane to CzechoSlovakia I will reply to your
      ancestry.com surname finds elsewhere.

      Instead I will tell you here how to obtain NJ naturalization records.

      Remember, for pre-1906 naturalization records you must figure out
      where the immigrant did (or could) naturalize, and look for that
      court's records. If it was a federal court, those records are likely
      at the appropriate Regional National Archives. After 1906 the
      procedure is just the same, except that there was a copy of ALL
      naturalization records since September 27, 1906, filed with the U.S.
      Immigration and Naturalization Service.
      So if you cannot determine which court naturalized the immigrant after
      1906, or if the courthouse burned and the post-1906 records were lost,
      or you could request a copy from the INS under the Freedom of
      Information Act.

      You can e-mail the regional National Archives and Records
      Administration (NARA) Northeast Region-New York City NY to search
      their surname naturalization index.


      E-mail: newyork.archives@...

      Holdings :
      Maintains archival records from Federal agencies and courts in
      New Jersey, New York, Puerto Rico, and the U.S.Virgin Islands.



      Request a surname naturalization record search and provide
      as much as you can of the following:

      Name
      Date of birth
      Place of birth
      Year of immigration
      Ship and port of arrival
      Year of naturalization
      Marital status
      Names of spouse and dependents
      Residence at time of naturalization

      Also provide your name and U.S. Postal snailmail address.

      NARA will also respond to your query by e-mail.
      If located , upon payment of $ 6 fee will mail you
      naturalization papers.

      You will receive acknowledgement of request following a few days
      or hours depending on NARA's volume.



      > She is not on the Ellis Island database. I believe she came through
      another
      > port, but the similiar spellings of Szedlovich that I have found on
      EI most
      > are not Hungarian. Here's what I've found:
      >
      > ancestry.com finds
      >
      > (2)SEDLEWICZ....born in .Lithuania speaks Lithuanian and
      b.Russian/Poland
      > speaks Polish
      >
      > (1)SEDLOVICH...
      > this one has a reference to Jewish Surnames in Russian Empire on
      > ancestry.com, but I can't access it
      > Also has 1 SSDI entry, no birthplace but last residence Elizabetn,
      > Allegheny, PA
      >
      > (1)SEDLOWITZ.. B..Poland/Russia speaks Yiddish 1914 ancestry.com
      > Ellis Island says he's coming to join his Uncle L SIDLEWICZ
      > Ellis Island also says his nationality was Russian but ethnicity was
      > Lithuanian
      >
      > (2) ZEDLOVICH... american born, but 2 brothers say parents were born
      in
      > Austria, and parents spoke German
      > (5) ZEDLOVICH SSDI entries on ancestry.com... all issued in NY 3 out
      of 5
      > last resided in Queens, NY
      >
      > (1)SEDLOVITCH B. Russia/ Speaks Lithuanian
      >
      > SEDLEVICH...Born in Russia Speaks Polish
      >
      > (2)SEDLEVICK...B Lithuanian/Lithuanian the other one b. Russian
      speaks
      > Russian
      >
      > ELLIS ISLAND FINDS:
      >
      > SZEDLEWICZ...ethnicity Russian/Lithuanian
      >
      > SIEDLEWICZOWNA..... ethnicity...Russia/Polish
      >
      > SEDLEWICZ... born in Russia Ethnicity...Russia/ Lithuanian
      >
      > SZEDROVICS..Ethnicity Hungarian
      >
      > SEDEWITZ...Ethnicity Russia/Polish
      > SEDLEWICZ...Ethnicity Russia/Lithuanian
      >
      > SZE?OWICZ Ethnicity Russian
      >
      > SZETKOVIC....Hungary/Slovak
      >
      >
      > I hope I made it understandable of what I'm trying to ask, and I
      thank you
      > for your previous reply to my earlier posts.
      >
      > Anne Sprentz
      >
      >
      > Do you know who killed my father?
      > JOHN SPRENTZ, murdered 1983 in
      > Ecorse, Michigan.... see my website for
      > further details.
      > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/2651/Unsolvedmurder.html
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