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36331Re: Current Name of Szepes Village Curiatybe

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  • tkejuice1208
    Jul 23, 2013
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      Hi Ron. The struggle was the scale, the clutter, and yes, the German names. Like everything else, it just took time to decipher. Being familiar with the Hungarian and Slovak village names, the addition of the German was a complicating factor because the German in no way resembles the other names. In the end, I found the location of interest. Thanks for highlighting the idiosyncrasies of the old maps.

      -Eric

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@...> wrote:
      >
      > What is so brutal about the maps in German? Is it the old print form, the words, or distinguishing words within all of the graphics? If it is simply words than there surely is a key somewhere on the internet. If not, start collecting the problem words now and remind me in September to take a look at them. I work in German much of the time.
      >
      > One word about the old maps, and the maps from about 1890 to 1918 are a treasure trove - I read one WW I history where the A-H Army was complaining because the latest maps they had to use WERE NOT up to date - "quite a few bridges and forest roads / trails exist that are not shown on the maps". That is really a paraphrase.
      >
      > So as much as the historic maps we have help us, be assured there were features not shown.
      >
      > Ron
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "tkejuice1208" <tkejuice1208@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Thank you, Michael. The old German maps are brutal! On a hunch, I pulled up the Spisske Tomasovce / Hadusovce village website and fished around a bit. They list this place as a municipal landmark by the Slovak name Kuria Tyba (Kuria = Mansion / Manorhouse) and provides a brief historical profile. Hopefully this information will save someone a lot of time in the future! Case closed!
      > >
      > > http://www.spissketomasovce.sk/-pamiatky-obce
      > >
      > > Eric Hajducsek
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > http://www.oldmapsonline.org/#bbox=19.259674,47.972701,22.86319,49.693634&q=&datefrom=1000&dateto=2010 This is a link to all sort of old maps of Hungary/Slovakia.
      > > > The town of Hadusovce was incorporated into the town of Spisske Tomasovce in 1924.
      > > > The German maps are the hardest to read because of the language issue.
      > > > It seems the older the map the less detail, especially towns and villages, there are on it.
      > > > Good luck.
      > > >
      > > > From: tkejuice1208
      > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 6:48 AM
      > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Current Name of Szepes Village Curiatybe
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Here's an update to the Curia-Tybe thread. I located a map from 1910 which depicts what I suspect to be the place "Curia-Tybe". I will post to the "Files" area of S-R. The name of the place per the map is Tibehaza, and it is located at the end of road that runs south/southwest along the northern edge of the village known today as Hadusovce.
      > > >
      > > > Google maps shows a place that consists of several small and large structures; perhaps the remnants of a farm or estate. Tibehaza is Hungarian, with haza translating to home, homeland, mother land, native land, or country. The Tybe, Tybee, Tibe portion remains a mystery. Perhaps the home of Tiberius.
      > > >
      > > > Meravy is the surname of interest resulting from this place in the late 1700's. Roman Catholic baptismal, marriage, and death records for this place can be found in the collection for Letanovce.
      > > >
      > > > I am interested in finding older maps to see if earlier names provide additional clues. Please contact me directly with questions or additional information.
      > > >
      > > > Thanks,
      > > >
      > > > Eric Hajducsek
      > > > mailto:tkejuice1208%40yahoo.com
      > > >
      > > > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, htcstech <htcstech@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > That issue reminds me of Matyusfold, the name of the Esterhazy estate in
      > > > > Galanta. The family had more than one estate.
      > > > > Esterhazy had a number of palaces and mansions and various members of the
      > > > > family moved around quite a lot as did others in high nobility.
      > > > > You should be careful about this though as some nobles were in name only,
      > > > > and only for the duration of their lives. Others held their nobility and
      > > > > could pass on their titles by inheritance.
      > > > > Even as 'life only nobles', they had the right to vote and not pay taxes
      > > > > but I'm almost convinced that they could not move outside the sphere of the
      > > > > palatine or royal personage without some sort of arrangement. Some were
      > > > > asked to travel from estate to estate. I suspect that the women who married
      > > > > into nobility could also bring their close 'jobbagy' family with them and
      > > > > through a kind of nepotism, they received better conditions, working for
      > > > > the high noble in the household, church and lands as foremen and so forth.
      > > > > Thus they were also free of paying taxes. That is what happened to my
      > > > > ancestors who were also of Moravian descent.
      > > > > Places do disappear. The one I'm currently researching is
      > > > > 'Vácszentmihály'- records stopped in 1895 and there is no further
      > > > > place known as that. Even
      > > > > though the records of Vac (near Visegrad) exists, and even though there is
      > > > > the church of Szent Mihaly nearby, no-one knows what happened to
      > > > > Vácszentmihály.
      > > > > They've never heard of it, even though it's in the right 'megye' or county.
      > > > > It could very well of been part of the noble Grassalkovich's estate, maybe
      > > > > a chapel in his palace or somesuch.
      > > > >
      > > > > Peter M.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > On 30 May 2013 22:29, tkejuice1208 <tkejuice1208@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > > **
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Thanks to all who contributed with their input.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > After digging around a bit more, I have discovered several alternate
      > > > > > spellings: Curiatybe, Curia-tybe, Curia Tybe, Kuria Tybe, Kuira Hybe (as
      > > > > > per the LDS Family Search Database), and simply Tybe. I have added them all
      > > > > > here in case someone is keyword searching in the future.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I am now fairly certain that this was not a village, but an estate of a
      > > > > > noble family large enough to warrant a distinction as a separate place, not
      > > > > > part of Lethanfalu (Letanovce) or other neighboring villages in the LDS
      > > > > > collection for Letanovce.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > In many of the records, there was no mention of occupation or status for
      > > > > > this branch of my family. At least two so far list them as "Civiles or
      > > > > > Cives" while another lists them as "Regis".
      > > > > >
      > > > > > The connection to Curia Tybe is via the Moravy family, not Javorszky.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Interestingly, the baptismal records for the children of Andreas Javorszky
      > > > > > and Juliana Moravy seem to suggest residences in the villages of
      > > > > > Quintoforum (Spissky Stvrtok), Schavnik (Spissky Stiavnik), and Welbach
      > > > > > (Bystrany).
      > > > > >
      > > > > > It begs the question: Was this degree of movement common among the
      > > > > > nobility or upper class?
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      >
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