Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

35302Re: [S-R] Re: MRAFFKO Ellenbogen Latin detail 1775 Bratislava

Expand Messages
  • htcstech
    Feb 26, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      My goof. I shouldn't rely on my memory in the early hours. It is Clara
      Ellenbergerin (1795 Budapest - no image to confirm the name), Clara
      Ellenbogen (1789 - Bratislava - St Martina) and finally Elena Carberin
      (1799 Budapest - no image).
      I have developed a mistrust of transcribed records and I may be jumping to
      conclusions.

      All this new information has happened 'live' over the last 24 hrs, solely
      based on index searches. I really should be looking at marriage and
      particularly death records as he (Georgius) could have married 3 times. His
      first wife was Susanna and I'm reasonably confident that Ellenbogen and
      Ellenbergerin are the same person. Now, I'm not sure of Elena Carberin, so
      I may chase that up when I'm in Budapest.

      Peter M.

      On 27 February 2013 06:24, CurtB <curt67boc@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > Peter,
      > Ellenbogen is already 'germanicized'. Berger and bogen are two quite
      > different German words.
      >
      >
      > Curt B.
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
      > >
      > > I have a suspicion that it was Germanicized to Ellenberger.
      > > Peter M.
      > >
      > > On 27 February 2013 06:05, CurtB wrote:
      > >
      > > > **
      >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Ron,
      > > > The surname Ellenbogen is surprisingly widespread throughout Central
      > and
      > > > Eastern Europe. It is particularly found in Jewish families, though not
      > > > exclusively so. It is today extensive in the U.S. and Israel. No
      > reason to
      > > > suppose it is associated with a place. It apparently has multiple
      > origins
      > > > but is thought to have originated as a craft or occupation of carpenter
      > > > from the name of the tool.
      > > >
      > > > Curt B.
      > > >
      > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > ***His wife, lady Clara, was born (maiden name) Ellenbogen.***
      > > > >
      > > > > Lady Clara Elbow? Perhaps she came from Ellenbogen, Bohemia, a fairy
      > > > tale appearing castle town in the elbow of the river. Today called
      > Locket
      > > > (elbow) between Karlovy Vary (Karlsbad) and Mariansky Lazne
      > (Marianbad),
      > > > Czech Republic. Not surprisingly, the town is located in an elbow of
      > the
      > > > river.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Peter,
      > > > > > It says lord Mraffko is on the five member board of administrators
      > of
      > > > legal chambers. His wife, lady Clara, was born (maiden name)
      > > > > > Ellenbogen. I am unable to read the place name, though it seems the
      > > > priest is giving house numbers on this page.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Curt B.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Curt,
      > > > > > > Thank you for clarifying these for me. I am indebted. If you
      > have the
      > > > > > > patience then I have one more.
      > > > > > > His first wife has died. He remarries and has a daughter, his
      > last
      > > > child
      > > > > > > according to the LDS index of Slovakia.
      > > > > > > (2nd last entry, right side)
      > > > > > >
      > > >
      > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22657-6186-71?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJ7:2111960010
      > > > > > > The description has evolved somewhat. I can pick out certain
      > words,
      > > > but the
      > > > > > > context and phraseology eludes me.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > FYI: It is important to find out as much as possible about him as
      > > > this
      > > > > > > newly discovered branch of my ancestors sheds much light on the
      > > > Galanta
      > > > > > > branch. I believe that the family still exists in France of
      > which I
      > > > am
      > > > > > > waiting confirmation.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Peter M.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > On 26 February 2013 16:58, CurtB wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > **
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Peter,
      > > > > > > > The Rex Hung under his son's name means he is named Stephen
      > after
      > > > St.
      > > > > > > > Stephen, King of Hungary (rather than St. Stephen, the first
      > > > Christian
      > > > > > > > martyr). Excell. Dom. above his name is his noble title; his
      > > > excellency
      > > > > > > > lord Mraffko.He is working in law chambers. His place is not
      > > > necessarily
      > > > > > > > different from other times, it simply says ex Citt. that is, he
      > > > lives in
      > > > > > > > the city (of Bratislava).
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Curt B.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > In the previous listing, he was enobled, but 2 years later
      > his
      > > > newborn
      > > > > > > > > Stephanus has 'Rex Hung." added. There is also (? Dom) and
      > the
      > > > addidtion
      > > > > > > > of
      > > > > > > > > Expeditorarus.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > >
      > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22650-11489-70?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJ3:n892102475
      > > > > > > > > Locus is quite different as well. Perhaps he moved around a
      > lot?
      > > > > > > > > Peter M.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > On 26 February 2013 14:15, htcstech wrote:
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > Georgius had a son Joannes. The entry here is a little more
      > > > specific,
      > > > > > > > but
      > > > > > > > > > almost all abbreviations.
      > > > > > > > > > Can you please decode this?
      > > > > > > > > > Also, the locus looks like In-Ved-Zin
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > >
      > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22650-8891-83?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJ3:n892102475
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > Thanks
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > Peter M
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > On 26 February 2013 13:54, CurtB wrote:
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >> **
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >>
      > > > > > > > > >>
      > > > > > > > > >> Peter,
      > > > > > > > > >> He worked for the chancery of the archbishop, not the
      > > > cathedral as
      > > > > > > > such.
      > > > > > > > > >> It does not say what position he held within it, a minor
      > > > clerk or a
      > > > > > > > senior
      > > > > > > > > >> head.
      > > > > > > > > >>
      > > > > > > > > >> Well, yes, he did come to the cathedral to have the child
      > > > baptized.
      > > > > > > > It is
      > > > > > > > > >> not unlikely that the cathedral was his parish church now,
      > > > but not
      > > > > > > > > >> necessarily since the register lists him as coming from
      > > > somewhere
      > > > > > > > else.
      > > > > > > > > >>
      > > > > > > > > >>
      > > > > > > > > >> Curt B.
      > > > > > > > > >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
      > > > > > > > > >> >
      > > > > > > > > >> > Thank you Curt and Julie!
      > > > > > > > > >> > Is it correct to assume that he worked for the
      > Cathedral?
      > > > Or more
      > > > > > > > likely
      > > > > > > > > >> > that he came to the Cathedral with his wife for the
      > baptism?
      > > > > > > > > >> > Peter M.
      > > > > > > > > >> >
      > > > > > > > > >> > On 26 February 2013 13:25, CurtB wrote:
      > > > > > > > > >> >
      > > > > > > > > >> > > **
      > > > > > > > > >>
      > > > > > > > > >> > >
      > > > > > > > > >> > >
      > > > > > > > > >> > > Peter,
      > > > > > > > > >> > > This is the baptismal register of the cathedral
      > church of
      > > > St.
      > > > > > > > Martin
      > > > > > > > > >> in
      > > > > > > > > >> > > Bratislava..
      > > > > > > > > >> > >
      > > > > > > > > >> > > The description used for him is still in use today in
      > > > church
      > > > > > > > (canon)
      > > > > > > > > >> law.
      > > > > > > > > >> > > He belongs to, or is a member of (penes), the chancery
      > > > for the
      > > > > > > > > >> > > administration of temporal goods, that is, the money,
      > > > buildings,
      > > > > > > > > >> lands,
      > > > > > > > > >> > > investments, of the cathedral or diocese.
      > > > > > > > > >> > >
      > > > > > > > > >> > > Since this is the cathedral church people come from
      > many
      > > > different
      > > > > > > > > >> places.
      > > > > > > > > >> > > I can't read this location any better than you. Julie
      > > > Michutka has
      > > > > > > > > >> given
      > > > > > > > > >> > > reasonable guidance here.
      > > > > > > > > >> > >
      > > > > > > > > >> > > Curt B.
      > > > > > > > > >> > >
      > > > > > > > > >> > >
      > > > > > > > > >> > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
      > > > > > > > > >> > > >
      > > > > > > > > >> > > >
      > > > > > > > > >> > >
      > > > > > > > > >>
      > > > > > > >
      > > >
      > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22655-31886-28?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJM:n1505507877
      > > > > > > > > >> > > >
      > > > > > > > > >> > > > Right page, last entry.
      > > > > > > > > >> > > > I need to know what "(penes?) excels camera
      > > > cancellista" in
      > > > > > > > > >> reference to
      > > > > > > > > >> > > > the father Georgius.
      > > > > > > > > >> > > > I get "within the most high room (chancellery?).
      > From
      > > > reading
      > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > >> other
      > > > > > > > > >> > > > entries, I think this is a job description of some
      > kind.
      > > > > > > > > >> > > > Under Locus: I read " Ex Wericz". The script is poor
      > > > and I'm not
      > > > > > > > > >> certain.
      > > > > > > > > >> > > > Also LDS have this book under Sv.Martina (part II)
      > as a
      > > > > > > > location.
      > > > > > > > > >> Does
      > > > > > > > > >> > > > anyone know what/where that is?
      > > > > > > > > >> > > >
      > > > > > > > > >> > > > Thank you so much for your help,
      > > > > > > > > >> > > >
      > > > > > > > > >> > > > Peter M.
      > > > > > > > > >> > > >
      > > > > > > > > >> > > >
      > > > > > > > > >> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
      > removed]
      > > > > > > > > >> > > >
      > > > > > > > > >> > >
      > > > > > > > > >> > >
      > > > > > > > > >> > >
      > > > > > > > > >> >
      > > > > > > > > >> >
      > > > > > > > > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > > > > > > >> >
      > > > > > > > > >>
      > > > > > > > > >>
      > > > > > > > > >>
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Show all 21 messages in this topic