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35149Re: [S-R] Alias Confusion (3 names)

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  • deeellessbee
    Feb 5, 2013
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      Thank you Peter!

      Debbie


      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
      >
      > Sure, but it was just a bit of free thinking about name origins as he
      > wanted to know which and why the alias occurred.
      > As it was basically off topic, I went private as it wouldn't of helped
      > anyone else. However I wrote briefly about the history of the Hajdu and
      > that they originated from Southern old Hungary including Macedonia,
      > Coratia, Serbia, Romania and Bulgaria. They were originally guerrilla
      > fighters against the Turks and later the Hapsburgs, often anti-Catholic.
      > They eventually became freemen (untaxed) and were later used on estates as
      > armed, horse-riding private police or overseers. In social standing, they
      > were a cut above the peasant farmers, although they were alienated in
      > certain places as they would force the labourers to keep working. The main
      > aspect of the Hajdus were in the revolutionary armies -The Kurucz and the
      > Rakoczi, both armies were present in the area from the late 1600 to about
      > 1711. Both disbanded and were left to their own fates, often settling in
      > the area where they found themselves. So Hajducsek (Hajduczek) name was
      > descriptive of their origins. They were probably very proud of this.
      >
      > Even more contentiously, Skop can be translated to Skopje, which provides
      > the Macedonian/Croatian link. The Ottoman empire had control of Greece as
      > well. Skop can refer to the Polish town and Hajdus were also used in Polish
      > estates as guards.
      > So I concluded that Skop was some form of remembrance by the Hajducsek
      > family.
      >
      > Peter M.
      > P.S. I've been wrong before.....
      >
      >
      > On 5 February 2013 14:15, deeellessbee wrote:
      >
      > > **
      > >
      > >
      > > Peter, if it's something that can be shared, I too would be interested in
      > > hearing your thoughts on Matthias' "alias madness". While I have the basics
      > > of (the "why" of) the alias name down, it still sometime confuses me and I
      > > still don't know which name was which in my family. So threads about
      > > aliases always catch my eye and I am interested in learning as much as I
      > > can about them.
      > >
      > > Thanks,
      > > Debbie
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hello Eric,
      > > >
      > > > "Does Hajducsek Andras maskep (otherwise) Skop mean that Skop had been
      > > > dropped in favor of Hajducsek going forward? Might he have been born
      > > simply
      > > > as Andras Skop? Or might the use of Hajducsek have begun in previous
      > > > generations?"
      > > >
      > > > The 'vel' in the 1795 record is Latin and translates to 'or' but also
      > > has a
      > > > meaning 'in particular'. So the priest at the time recorded the original
      > > > family name as originally 'Hajducsek'. The 1847 record shows that 'Skop'
      > > > and 'Hajducsek' were still linked, but no mention of 'Kuhar'. This shows
      > > > that there is some consistency within the records, at least as far as the
      > > > priest(s)/scribes were consistent. The 'Hajducsek' name appearing as
      > > early
      > > > as 1785 in the nearby village of Pol'ov cements that name as the
      > > original.
      > > > I'm presuming that there was no 'Skop' alias in that record?
      > > > So we can't say that one name took over the other at this stage, but the
      > > > family wanted to be known by both names, so you need to follow the Skop
      > > and
      > > > Hajducsek names from at least 1795 onwards.
      > > >
      > > > Joannes, son of Mathias, born in June 14th 1795 would of been 23 at the
      > > > time of Andras's birth. Andras could be Joannes's son, or brother.
      > > > As for Mathias's alias madness, I'll email you directly on possibilities.
      > > >
      > > > Peter M.
      > > >
      > > > On 5 February 2013 06:16, tkejuice1208 wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > **
      > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Hello all. After a year of some fairly intense research and a lot of
      > > > > confusion, I am reaching out for assistance. The subject of the
      > > research is
      > > > > Andras Hajducsek from Saca, a village a short distance south /
      > > southwest of
      > > > > Kosice. The surname was not a popular one in Saca or the neighboring
      > > > > villages of Mala Ida and Pol'ov so I do not believe that there was more
      > > > > than one adult Andras Hajducsek of the same approximate age within my
      > > > > window of research. Searching LDS records from Roman Catholic parishes
      > > in
      > > > > the area, I have only been able to locate marriage and death records
      > > for
      > > > > Andras. The marriage record from 1/28/1846 shows a 24 year old groom
      > > and
      > > > > his 20 year old bride Anna Krisztianko from Saca. This places his year
      > > of
      > > > > birth at 1821 or 1822. His death record on 1/24/1881 shows his widow
      > > Anna
      > > > > Krisztanko and lists his age at 63. This places his YOB at 1817 or
      > > 1818. I
      > > > > have not been able to locate his baptismal record despite searching RC
      > > > > records in several area villages across all years 1815 â€" 1825.
      > >
      > > > >
      > > > > My first thought is that Andras Hajducsek and family may have migrated
      > > > > from another village but the surname, as far as I can tell, appears in
      > > the
      > > > > area as early as 1785 in Pol'ov. Still, I cannot document his birth and
      > > > > parentage.
      > > > >
      > > > > I am worried that this research is being complicated by aliases. Andras
      > > > > and Anna had a son (Andras) on 8/27/1847 in Saca. The name of the
      > > father
      > > > > was recorded as Hajducsek Andras maskep (otherwise) Skop. This
      > > connection
      > > > > to the Skop surname is further complicated by a possible relative from
      > > the
      > > > > late 1700's whose name was recorded as Mathias Skop, alias Kuhar vel (I
      > > > > think it is "vel") Hajducsek on the record from 5/14/1795 that I have
      > > > > linked to:
      > > > >
      > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22646-26414-74?cc=1554443&wc=M9MJ-R7W:n1744020469
      > > > >
      > > > > I have always been confused by the use of the alias in terms of which
      > > is
      > > > > the old name and which carries forward, but the apparent use of three
      > > > > surnames has created a nightmare. I have never seen three surnames
      > > recorded
      > > > > for 1 person and cannot begin to make sense of it.
      > > > >
      > > > > Since I don't know that Mathias and Andras were related, I am focusing
      > > on
      > > > > establishing the Hajducsek Skop connection. Does Hajducsek Andras
      > > maskep
      > > > > (otherwise) Skop mean that Skop had been dropped in favor of Hajducsek
      > > > > going forward? Might he have been born simply as Andras Skop? Or might
      > > the
      > > > > use of Hajducsek have begun in previous generations?
      > > > >
      > > > > Can anyone explain Mathias and his alias madness???
      > > > >
      > > > > Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
      > > > >
      > > > > Thank you!
      > > > >
      > > > > Eric Hajducsek
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
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