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23160Re: [S-R] Name Changes

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  • Tom Geiss
    Sep 6, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Oh yes, and I've pretty immersed myself in Slovak history the last three years, how Hungary controlled things for hundreds of years. I know the story of JANOSIK all about Milan Rastislav Stefanic. who died in a plane crash that some say was no accident?? I know about the Cleveland agreement, and the Pittsburg Agreement, that led to the establishment of Czechoslovakia, in which some say the "Czechs got the cream; Slovaks got skim milk". Then there was the "First Slovak Republic' with Father Josef Tiso as president. (all with the blessing of Adolf Hitler) (from 1939 to 1945). This is all argued about on Slovak television even today.
      And I'm told that even now sometimes Hungarians doo mean things like cause a disturbance at a ball game. or burn a Slovak flag in Budapest..
      Tom
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Tom Geiss
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:20 PM
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Name Changes


      Thanks , Bill, for your input. I do know the ancestral villages. I guess this group is getting tired of hearing my story, but I will bore you all once more with the details.
      First of all , here is what I learned a few years ago, from reports of my grandmother, aunts, uncles (all since deceased). My grandma's family, (which was Austrian, and spoke German) had a large farm in Iglo , Hungary, (after 1918 it became Spisska Nova Ves). They were prosperous for the times, had many servants and workers.
      The farm was confiscated during WW1, and family living there were all killed.
      Only those who left the farm prior to the war were alive.

      (The descendents of these I've been seeking the last three years, with the help of my AMERICAN friend, who lives in SNV. Has lived there since 1939, when , at 13 , she got stuck there by the war.)
      I have found most of my grandma's siblings, on LDS microfilms, which are authentic, (including illegible handwriting). Also I have much of my grandma's PEDIGREE, which I paid the Levoca Archives to do, all the way back to 1764. (they found as much as my money would allow).
      Then a year and a half ago I heard about a letter written to grandma in the thirties, from BREZOVICA NAD TORYSA. I E-mailed this info to my friend in SNV, and she called her friend ,Anna Mikova, who lives there, and was told that the GURKOS (Gurkas??) used to live there , but they're all gone. In subsequent weeks Anna talked to older people, whose parents and grandparents used to work for the Gurkas.

      I obtained, from the Presov Archives the marriage docoment of my grandmother's brother JOZSEF GURKO, and his wife Terezia Guminszki, for verification that he was the same one born in Spisska Nova Ves. Of course I'm taking the archives' word for this, since this is NOT AN ORIGINAL DOCUMENT?? I believe that there are words in Slovak at the bottom, that (I think ) state this.
      They had a son, killed in WW1, and three daughters, RUZENA ALZBETA, AND TEREZIA.
      Their house is the one that is NO LONGER THERE. Vladi was there last June.
      The three daughters are supposed to have gone to Kosice.
      Their daughter ,Ruzena, was Anna Mikova,s teacher in school (5th to 9th grades), in the 1940's. So , Michael, this would be a different Ruzena, since you say she died in 1930. Anna Mikova went to her funeral, (and Anna wasn't born until 1936).
      There is so much more, but this is getting long.
      Jozef Gurko was born in 1866, got married in 1893.

      All I have to do is find out where my AUSTRIAN family got the Slavik name of GURKO ??
      Thanks for all the help so far. Tom
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Michael Mojher
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 2:40 PM
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Name Changes

      Tom,
      I was up late working on another project. I had some time to kill during it and plugged in your surnames while waiting.
      That one Gurko in the 1995 Census was located in Castkov in the district of Senica. If there was only one Gurko in 1995 it could well be if they died there are no longer any left in Slovakia. I could understand them hiding prior to 1993, but after that they would have no reason to fear being "Sl'achtic".
      Of all things, as I write my translators from my first two trips to Slovakia are visiting me. They are from Kosice. If you like I will see if they will search out your relatives grave. Send all the information you have on it.
      I did find this -
      Last and first name Age Place of burial Date of funeral includes

      Gurkó István 0 Kosice - Verejný cintorín 02.05.1896
      Gurko Mihály 0 Kosice - Verejný cintorín 24.06.1898
      Gurková Ruzena 0 Kosice - Verejný cintorín 30.09.1930
      Gurková Anna 82 Kosice - Verejný cintorín - Kolumbárium 00.00.1996

      Link - http://www.cemetery.sk/english/?

      I'm not sure why the first three has an age of "0". Possibly they did die at or close to birth and no age was given.
      I read where the Rozalia cemetery is very large and finding grave sites can be difficult. At least you know Anna is in the Kolumbarium, which should make it easier to find her. I can ask Maros to take a photograph of it for you.

      From: Tom Geiss
      Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 11:24 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Name Changes

      Thanks, Mike, for looking that up. I will print taat and save it.
      I see you sent it at 1.00 AM. You were working overtime.
      In the case of the GURKO name, it's the other way around though. I found my grandma's GURKO family, on microfilm, but can't find anybody with that name today.
      They were kicked out of one town at the time of WW1, or before. And kicked out of another one after WW2, probably by the communists.
      According to one marriage record , some were "SL'ACHTIC " (Aristocratic) in other words, Too High Class for their own good.
      When Vladi went to Brezovica this summer to get me a photo of the family house (or ruins thereof) he was shown a sign that read, " Here is where the Gurko family house was "
      I'm suspecting that if there are any survivors left, that they are HIDING , have probably changed their name, and don't want to be found. I know of one who was buried in Kosice, in ROSALIA CEMETERY?? not too many years ago. Someday I'll get someone to go there and find out how her last name is spelled.
      Tom
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Michael Mojher
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 1:43 AM
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Name Changes

      Tom,
      I used the 1995 Slovakia Census database to search the spellings of the surnames to listed in your message.
      Hudeck 0 hits, a list of alternatives was given.
      Hudek - 108 found in 28 locations.
      Hudcek - 46 found in 16 locations.
      Hudecek - 167 found 65 locations.
      Hudecz - 7 found in 5 locations.
      Hudec - 3318 found in 587 locations.
      From this you can see there are a variety of spellings. If yours is Hudek then it is one of the lesser used spellings.
      Kodesch - 4 found in 2 locations
      Hodesch - 0
      Holisch - 12 found in 7 locations
      Kosesch given as an alternative.
      Szonoga - 0
      Sonoga - 36 listings in 14 locations.
      Gurko - 1 found in 1 location.
      Gurka - 98 found in 28 locations.
      Since in 1995 there was only one person with the spelling Gurko I would conclude that somewhere along the way the "a" got changed to an "o".
      In my own name in Slovakia it is spelled Mojcher, but originally there and in the USA it is Mojher. I found in the records how and when the "c" got added. So things do happen to names.
      If there is a "z" associated with an "s" or a "c" you can pretty well understand that it was a Hungarian form of the name. During the Magyarization period Hungarian spellings were forced upon people. Look at Hudecz and Hudec, 7 vs 3318. More than likely many of those families dropped the "z". As far as I know there is not a formal movement to change the Hungarian spellings back to the Slovak spellings. Since the Hungarian spellings were forced on people to begin with it should not be a surprise they would change it back to the original. A more interesting answer would be "Why did they keep the Hungarian spelling?"

      From: Tom Geiss
      Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 11:16 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [S-R] Name Changes

      When looking through LDS micofilm, I run into HUDEK ,HUDECK KODESCH HODESCH??
      Then ,when I go to Slovak White Pages, the only ones that give me any matches or info are HUDEK and KODESCH.
      Also I found SZONOGA, and got no help from the white pages until I dropped the Z and just wrote it SONOGA.
      Is there some movement in Slovakia to get rid of all Hungarian spellings??

      Also, my ancestors name was GURKO. White pages give me nothing on GURKO, but several addresses of GURKA. Are these two the same name with different spellings?
      Tom

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