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10723Re: [S-R] "Honestus"

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  • Andrea Vangor
    Sep 9, 2004
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      Now that you mention it, I have seen that too in church records.
      Interesting.


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Vladimir Bohinc" <konekta@...>
      To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 1:29 PM
      Subject: Re: [S-R] "Honestus"


      >
      > Dear Andrea,
      > Quite often one or more children were born illegitimate before the parents
      eventually married ( or at least the mother got maried with someone). In
      such cases, there usually is an added note with the birth record of the
      child, that this particular child was legitimized later by a subsequent
      marriage ( usually on the day of marriage)
      > Interestingly, I do not recall any specific "labelling" of illegitimate
      born spouses. The only way, how the priest could say that in a proper and
      "understandable" manner, was, that he noted only the name of the mother of
      the spouse. This I have seen often.
      > Vladimir
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Andrea Vangor
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 10:13 PM
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] "Honestus"
      >
      >
      > My idea of consensus is one based on real facts, so this nails it,
      Vladimir.
      > Thanks! I wonder now what term would apply to an illegitimate person
      being
      > married. Which leads to another question. Given that some babies born
      out
      > of wedlock were adopted in some fashion when their parents were married,
      > taking their father's name whether or not he was the birth parent, would
      > that individual be described later as legitimate?
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Vladimir Bohinc" <konekta@...>
      > To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 12:41 PM
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] "Honestus"
      >
      >
      > >
      > > Dear Andrea,
      > > The term honestus only means legitimate. When the latin was changed to
      > slovak, the same meaning was written as:
      > > " s poctive suloze", which means from the honest copulation ( or
      laying in
      > bed together)
      > > German records follow similar rule, so they use the words: ' ehelicher
      > Sohn" for a son, born in wedlock or legitimate.
      > > The only respectable members of the community ( parish), were the
      > Landlords and other Nobles and later teachers and other officials and
      > priests, but the term honestus was never used for describing them as
      such.
      > > Since this is a historical fact, no consensus is needed.
      > > Best regards,
      > > Vladimir
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: Andrea Vangor
      > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 9:06 PM
      > > Subject: [S-R] "Honestus"
      > >
      > >
      > > Do we have any consensus as to the meaning of the terms "honestus"
      and
      > > "honesta" that occur in church records written in Latin?
      > >
      > > Do the terms mean that the person is a respectable member of the
      > community,
      > > or merely that he or she is of legitimate birth? Or, is it some
      kind of
      > > generic low-level honorific for peasants?
      > >
      > >
      > >
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