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How is jesus ..?!

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  • other_bebe
    Who is Jesus? Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, the second person in the Holy trinity. However, the very Bible which is used
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 23, 2006
      Who is Jesus?

      Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God,
      the second person in the "Holy trinity." However, the very Bible
      which is used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis
      for doctrine within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge
      you to consult your own Bible and verify that the following
      conclusions are not drawn out of context:

      1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not
      When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of
      a limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and
      hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither
      the son, but the Father." Mark 13:32, and Matt 24:36. But God knows
      all. His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his
      own admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is
      clear proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is
      therefore not God.

      2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not
      While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the
      power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he
      said, "Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of
      himself, but what he seeth the Father do..." St. John 5:19. Again he
      said, "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my
      judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of
      the Father which hath sent me." St. John 5:30. But God is not only
      all-powerful, He is also the source of all power and authority. That
      Jesus, of his own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear
      proof that Jesus is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is
      not God.

      3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God.
      God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call
      upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was
      one whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "l ascend
      unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." St.
      John 20:17. He is also reported to have cried out while on the
      cross, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46. If
      Jesus were God, then couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast
      thou forsaken me?" Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus
      prayed the Lord's prayer (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself?
      When in the garden of Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be
      possible, let this cup pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but
      as thou wilt." Matt 26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That
      Jesus, of his own admission and by his own actions, acknowledged,
      worshipped, and prayed to another being as God is clear proof that
      Jesus himself is not God.

      4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood
      While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said
      that this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen
      God at any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neither heard His voice
      at any time nor seen His shape." St. John 5:37. He also said in St.
      John 4:24. "God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship
      him in spirit and in truth." That Jesus would say that no one had
      seen or heard God at any time, while his followers both saw and
      heard him, is clear proof that Jesus was not God.

      5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus
      acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct
      from his own.
      Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not
      equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth
      of Jesus himself who said in St. John 14:28, "My Father is greater
      than I." When someone referred to him as good master in Matt 19:17,
      Jesus responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but
      one, that is God..." Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions
      between himself and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came
      from God, neither came I of myself but He sent me." St. John 8:42.
      Jesus gave clear evidence of his subordination to God, rather than
      his equality with God,when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but
      thine be done" and in St. John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but
      the will of the Father which hath sent me." That Jesus would admit
      that he did not come into the world on his own initiative but was
      directed to do so, that he would acknowledge another being as
      greater than himself, and that he would negate his own will in
      deference to affirming the will of another, give clear proof that
      Jesus is not the Supreme One and therefore Jesus is not God.

      Conclusion
      The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge
      about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus
      is not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon
      what basis have you come to believe otherwise?

      My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity
      is false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as
      presented in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect
      unity.
      .

      What is the word of God about Jesus:

      A. Regarding Sonship of Jesus:
      That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they
      are doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to
      Him! When He decrees a thing he but says to it "Be", and it is.
      (Qur'an 19:34,35).

      And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son.' You
      have indeed advanced something hideous. The heavens are well nigh
      rent of it and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh
      fall down crashing for that they have attributed to the All-Merciful
      a son; and it behoves not the All-Merciful to take a son. None is
      there in the heavens and earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a
      servant (Qur'an 19:88-93).

      Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness;
      He created him of dust, then said He unto him, "Be", and he was.
      (Qur'an 3:59).

      People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and
      say not as to God but the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary,
      was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to
      Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers.
      and say not, 'Three', Refrain, better is it for you. God is only One
      God. Glory be on Him - that He should have a son! To Him belongs
      that which is in the heavens and on the earth, God suffices for a
      guardian. (Qur'an 4:171)



      C. Regarding Crucifiction of Jesus:
      And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty
      calumny, and for their saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of
      Mary, the Messenger of God'...yet they did not slay him, neither
      crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who
      are at variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him,
      they have no knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and
      they did not slay him of certainty... no indeed, God raised him up
      to Him; God is Almighty, All-Wise. There is not one of the people of
      the Book but will assuredly believe in him before his death, and on
      the Resurrection Day he will be a witness against them. (Qur'an
      4:156-159)










      JESUS in the QURAN ..

      The Islamic view of Jesus lies between two extremes. The Jews , who
      rejected Jesus as a Prophet of God, called him an impostor. The
      Christians, on the other hand, considered him to be the son of God
      and worship him as such. Islam considers Jesus to be one of the
      great prophets of God and respects him as much as Ibrahim (Abraham),
      Moses, and Mohammed. (Peace Be Upon Them) This is conformity with
      the Islamic view of the oneness of God, the oneness of Divine
      guidance, and the complementary role of the subsequent mission of
      God's messengers.

      The essence of Islam - willing submission to the will of God - was
      revealed to Adam, who was passed it on to his children. All
      following revelations to Noah, Ibrahim, Moses, Jesus, and finally
      Mohammed (Peace Be Upon Them) were conformity with that message,
      with some elaboration to define the revelation between man and God,
      man and man, man and instructions. Thus, any contradictions among
      revealed religions is viewed by Islam as a man-made element
      introduced into these religions. The position of Jesus in the three
      major religions - Judaism, Christianity, and Islam - should not be
      an exception.

      Although the Quran does not present a detailed life-story of Jesus,
      it highlights the important aspects of his birth, his mission, his
      ascension to heaven, and passes judgements on the Christian beliefs
      concerning him. The Quranic account of Jesus starts with the
      conception of his mother, Mary, whose mother, the wife of Imran,
      vowed to dedicate her child to the service of God in the temple.
      When Mary became a woman, the Holy Spirit (the Archangel Gabriel)
      appeared to her as a man bringing her news of a son. We read the
      following dialogue in the Quran between Mary and the Angel:

      "When the angel said, "Mary, god gives you a good tidings of a Word
      from Him whose name is messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, -high honoured
      shall he be in this world and the next, near stationed to God. He
      shall speak to men in the cradle, and of age, and righteous he shall
      be, "lord" said Mary "How shall I have a son, seeing no mortal has
      touched me? "Even so, he said "God creates what He will".

      When he decrees a thing He but say to it, "Be", and it is. (Al-Imran
      3:45-47)

      In a chapter (Surah) entitled "Maryam" (Mary), the Quran tells us
      how Mary gave birth to her son, and how the Jesus accused her when
      she brought the child home:

      "Then she brought the child to her folk, carrying him, and they
      said, "Mary, you have surely committed a monstrous thing. Sister of
      Aaron, your father was not a wicked man, nor your mother a woman
      unchaste. Mary pointed to the child; but they said, 'Hoe shall we
      speak to one who still in the cradle, a little child. And he
      said, 'Lo, I am God's servant, God has given me the Book and made me
      a Prophet Blessed He has made me ,wherever/may be; and hi has
      enjoined me to prayer, and to give the alms so long as I live, and
      likewise to cherish my mother; He has not made me arrogant and
      wicked. Peace be upon me, the day I was born, and the day I die, and
      the day I am raised up a live. "Maryam 19:29-33)

      in the same chapter, following the above quotation, God assures
      Mohammed (PBUH) and through him the whole world, that what is told
      above is the TRUTH about Jesus (PBUH), although Christians might not
      accept it. Jesus is NOT the son of God: He was obviously enough, the
      son of Mary. The verses continue: "That is Jesus, son of Mary, in
      word of truth, concerning which they are doubting. It is not for God
      to take a son unto Him. Glory be to Him, He nut says to it, 'Be, and
      it is. (Maryam 19:34-35)

      After this strong statement about the nature of Jesus, God directed
      Mohammed (PBUH) to call the Christians to worship the one
      God: "Surely God is my God, and your God, so surely serve him. This
      is the straight path". (Maryam 19:36)

      TAfter this strong statement about the nature of Jesus, God directed
      Mohammed (PBUH) to call the Christians to worship the one
      God: "Surely God is my God, and your God, so surely serve him. This
      is the straight path". (Maryam 19:36)

      The Quran recognizes the fact that Jesus had no human father, but
      this does not make him the son of God, or God himself. By this
      criterion, Adam would have been more entitled more entitled to be
      the son of God, because he had neither a father nor a mother, so the
      Quran draws attention to the miraculous creation of both in the
      following verses; " truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight is
      as Adam's likeness; He created him of dust, then He said upon
      him, 'Be' and hi was. (Al-Imran 3:59)

      The Quran rejects the concept of Trinity God the Father, God the
      son, God the Holy Spirit - as strongly as it rejects the concept of
      Jesus as the son of God. This is because GOD IS ONE. Three cannot be
      one. The Quran addresses Christians in the following verses from the
      Surrah entitled "An-Nisaa" (The Women)

      People of the Book, do not go beyond the bounds in your religion,
      and say nought as to God but the Truth. The messiah, Jesus, son of
      Mary, was only the messenger of God, and his word (Fulfilment of his
      word (Fulfilment of His command, through the word "Be", for the
      creation of Jesus) that he committed to Mary, and a spirit
      originating from Him (was given life by God). So believe in God and
      His Messengers, and say not 'Three'. Refrain, better is for you. God
      is only one God. Glory be to him-that He should have a son! To Him
      belongs all that is in the Heavens and in the Earth; God suffices
      for a guardian.

      The Messiah will not disdain to be a servant of God, neither the
      Angels who are close to Him. Whosoever disdains to serve Him and
      walks proud, He will assuredly muster them to Him, all of them.

      As for the believers, who do deeds of righteousness, we will pay
      them their rewards in full, and He will give them more, of His
      bounty; as for them who disdain and walks proud, then He will punish
      with a severe punishment, and they shall not find for them, apart
      from God, a friend or helper." (An-Nissa 4:171-173)

      The denial of Jesus's divinity (and. For the matter, of Mary's
      divinity) is presented in the Quran in the form of a dialogue, at
      the Day of Judgement, between the Almighty Jesus. All the Messengers
      and their nations will gather before God and He will ask the
      Messengers how they were received by their people and what they said
      to them. Among those who will be questioned is Jesus:

      "And when God said, 'O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say unto
      men, "Take me and my mother as gods, apart from God"? He said, 'To
      you be glory! It is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I
      indeed said it, you would have known it, knowing what is within my
      heart, though I do not know your knowledge; you know the things
      unseen. I only said to them what you did commands me: "Serve God, my
      God and your God." (Al-Maida 5-116)

      Given that the Quran denies the Trinity and the son ship of Jesus,
      what, according to the Quran, was the real mission of Jesus? The
      answer is that Jesus was a link in a long chain of Prophets and
      Messengers sent by God to various nations and societies whenever
      they needed guidance or deviated from his teachings of Moses and
      other Messengers. As he was miraculously supported by numerous
      miracles to prove that he was a Messengers from God. However, the
      majority of the Jews rejected his ministry.

      In another verse of the Quran, Jesus confirmed the validity of the
      Torah which was revealed to Moses, and also conveyed he glad tidings
      of a final Messenger who follow him: "And when Jesus son of Mary
      said, 'Children of Israel, I am indeed the Messenger to you,
      confirming the Torah that is before me, and giving good tiding of a
      Messenger who shall be the praised one."(As-Saff 61:6)

      Note that "praised one" is a translation of "Ahmad" - The Prophet
      Mohammed's name. Careful study of the New Testament shows that Jesus
      refers to the same Prophet in John 14:16-17: "And I will give you
      another Counsellor (ThProphet Mohammed). To be with you for ever,
      even the Spirit of Truth."

      The usual explanation of this Prophecy is that the counsellor
      referred to is the Holy Spirit, but this explanation is excluded by
      a previous verse in John: "Nevertheless I tell you the truth: it is
      to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the
      Counsellor will not come to you."

      The characteristics of this counsellor, as can be derived from the
      prophecy, are that he will stay forever with the believers, he will
      glorify Jesus; and he will speak that he hears form God. All four
      characteristics apply to the Prophet Mohammed. He came six centuries
      after Jesus. He came six centuries after Jesus. He came with a
      universal and everlasting message, fulfilling the prophecy that the
      counsellor will stay forever with the faithful. He glorified Jesus
      as a great Prophet. The Quran attributes to Jesus miracles not
      mentioned in the Bible's Old and New Testaments, as well as specific
      verses in the Quran show how the Prophet Mohammad is rejected by
      Jews and Christians out of prejudice and misunderstanding, rather
      that carefully study the Bible.

      It is a sad fact of history that not many are following
      the "straight path" to which people were called by Jesus. He was
      only followed by a few disciples inspired by God to support him. The
      non-believers plotted - as they would against Mohammed, six
      centuries later - to kill Jesus. But God had better plan for him and
      his followers, as the Quran tells us:

      "And when Jesus perceived their unbelief, he said 'Who will be my
      helpers in the cause of God? The apostles said, 'we are Gods
      helpers. We believe in God; so bear witness of our submission God,
      we believe in that you have sent down, and we follow the Messenger.
      Inscribe us therefore with those who bear witness. 'And they
      devised, and God devised, and God devised, and God is the best of
      divisors. When God said, 'Jesus, I will take you to Me and will
      raise you to Me, and I will purify you (of the falsehoods) of those
      who do not believe. I will make your followers above the unbelievers
      till the Resurrection Day."(Al-Imran 3:52-55)

      As the above verses indicate, Jesus was taken and raised to heaven.
      He was not crucified. It was certainly the plan of the enemies of
      Jesus to put him to death on the cross, but God saved him and
      someone else was crucified:

      "And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a grave
      false charge, and for their saying, 'We killed the messiah, Jesus
      son of Mary, the Messiah of God"…yet they did not slay him, neither
      crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who
      are at variance concerning him are surely in doubt the following of
      conjecture; and they did not kill him of certainty…no indeed; God
      raised him up to Him; God is Almighty, Allwise. There is not one of
      the people of the book but will assuredly believe him before his
      death, and on the Resurrection Day he will be a witness against
      them." (An-Nissa 4:156-159)

      The Quran does not explain who was the person crucified instead of
      Jesus, nor elaborate on the Second Coming of Jesus. However,
      explanators of the Quran have always interpreted the last verse of
      the above quotation to mean that Jesus will believe in him before he
      dies. This understanding is supported by authentic sayings (Hadith)
      of the Prophet Mohammed may the peace and blessings of Allah him and
      upon all His Messengers.




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      http://www.alarabiya.net/Articles/2006/11/02/28751.htm



      Can u debate: Is Jesus god? Is the bible the word of God? Is
      crucifixion fact or fiction? Do you know the true Paul? What did the
      Old Testament say about Jesus? Is Jesus the fake messiah?

      ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

      Where in the bible did Jesus claim divinity? Where in the bible did
      Jesus ask to be worshipped? Where did Jesus say I am God Manifested
      in flesh? Where did Jesus mention the original sin? Where did Jesus
      say I am the Son God? Where did Jesus say that I am the Word God?

      Jesus say I am the Second Icon God?

      (John 18:20)

      20"I have spoken openly to the world," Jesus replied. "I always
      taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come
      together. I said nothing in secret.





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      :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


      We advise you visiting :
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      http://www.beconvinced.com
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      http://english.islamway.com
      http://www.todayislam.com
      http://www.prophetmuhammed.org
      http://www.islamtoday.net/english/
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      http://saaid.net/book/open.php?cat=92&book=1536

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      :

      question & Answers about Islam

      http://saaid.net/book/open.php?cat=92&book=1414

      :


      Islam Its Foundations And Concepts

      http://saaid.net/book/open.php?cat=92&book=1896

      :

      http://www.islamhouse.com/dc


      http://www.imanway.com/fr/page.htm

      Ce site est magnifique , vous pouvez y trouver plusieurs sites
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      :
      http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
      :

      DECOUVERTE DE L'ISLAM ET DES MUSULMANS

      http://www.islam-fraternet.com/decouv.htm
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