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Keel bolt torque value

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  • captwsims
    I ve forgotten what the torque is supposed to be...is it 90 foot- pounds? That s not a whole lot. Is there danger in overtorqueing the keel bolts,
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 1, 2003
      I've forgotten what the torque is supposed to be...is it 90 foot-
      pounds? That's not a whole lot. Is there danger in overtorqueing
      the keel bolts, especially with the boat in the water? Last time my
      boat was out it had a bit of keel wobble. I thought I'd do the
      standard rib thing, but found out my boat does not have the balsa
      cored sole. Rather, the space between the liner and hull is filled
      with something that is white, such as West System Microballoons.
      Perhaps the PO had already done the "fix". My boat (#703) was built
      May '76.

      Bill Sims
      Mandeville, Louisiana
    • gc138@aol.com
      Bill - Don t know that number but when I went to check mine I could not tighten them any more. They did not budge and don t appear to have any corrosion to
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 1, 2003
        Bill - Don't know that number but when I went to check mine I could not
        tighten them any more. They did not budge and don't appear to have any corrosion to
        make them stick. So it would seem that mine are much more than 90 fp.
        I just wanted to mention that if tightening your bolts does not help the
        wobble,
        check for the integrity of the foam sandwich that is your sole. If it has
        delamination, then it isn't doing much stiffening.
        Also, I thought it a good idea to add stiffeners on the port side since there
        is only light tabbing of the liner by OEM. I did that by adding ribs in each
        port stowage area that extend to the center line (or butt up to the sole) from
        as far up the stowage area as you can comfortably work. Also, fully tab the
        side of each stowage compartment to the hull with filleting and some layers of
        fiberglass 4" tape ( Bondo tape Home Depot or Autozone) and epoxy resin,
        offsetting the layers of tape. My 2 cents.
        George #18 "Spaghetti"


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • dlev1956@aol.com
        I plan on hauling my 1973 SJ24 later this month and doing the bottom and am wondering how obvious keel wobble will be if I have it. Can you actually feel the
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 1, 2003
          I plan on hauling my 1973 SJ24 later this month and doing the bottom and am
          wondering how obvious keel wobble will be if I have it. Can you actually feel
          the wobble by wiggling that large mass? Or what test/method do you use to
          determine if you have a problem? My cabin sole feels solid, but I know that it's
          probably water logged, since the boat had been let go for a while before I
          bought it.
          Dennis


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • eriesloop1@aol.com
          a cracked or separated sole should be addressed. any original sole still in existance is probably due for a re-fit, as the core is likely dissolved. the
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 1, 2003
            a cracked or separated sole should be addressed. any original sole still in
            existance is probably due for a re-fit, as the core is likely dissolved. the
            procedure is documented. it can be done at dockside in three weekends, although
            hauled would be more convenient.
          • Peter O
            I am not sure how your mail arrived in my box. As it happens I am an engineer & yacht owner so I have some experience & could possibly help but would need more
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 1, 2003
              I am not sure how your mail arrived in my box.
              As it happens I am an engineer & yacht owner so I have some experience
              & could possibly help but would need more information:
              What length & displacement is your yacht.
              What are your keel dimensions & weight.
              What size (Diameter) bolts fix the keel in place, how many, & what
              material are the bolts.
              Is your yacht a standard design & is the designer or builder available
              to answer technical questions concerning maintenance.

              Briefly:
              Yes you can over torque keel bolts.
              90 ft lbs is an average sort of "check torque" that one might select
              to see if any bolts were loose.
              You need more precise advice.

              Rgds
              Peter Owens BE(mech)

              -----Original Message-----
              From: captwsims [mailto:Bill-Sims@...]
              Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2003 1:55 p.m.
              To: SJ-24@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [SJ-24] Keel bolt torque value


              I've forgotten what the torque is supposed to be...is it 90 foot-
              pounds? That's not a whole lot. Is there danger in overtorqueing
              the keel bolts, especially with the boat in the water? Last time my
              boat was out it had a bit of keel wobble. I thought I'd do the
              standard rib thing, but found out my boat does not have the balsa
              cored sole. Rather, the space between the liner and hull is filled
              with something that is white, such as West System Microballoons.
              Perhaps the PO had already done the "fix". My boat (#703) was built
              May '76.

              Bill Sims
              Mandeville, Louisiana


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            • Peter O
              You cant be sure until your boat is cradled on dry land & the hull is water blasted clean. If you have a crack around the base of the keel where it meets the
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 1, 2003
                You cant be sure until your boat is cradled on dry land & the hull is
                water blasted clean.
                If you have a crack around the base of the keel where it meets the
                hull then you have sufficient movement at this joint to crack your
                coating system.
                Usually buy not always this is an indication of a "wobbly" keel,
                depending upon the problem magnitude the crack will be relatively
                minor (say up to razor blade width) or more significant (up to pocket
                knife blade thickness.
                However its quite common to see this crack in performance yachts. I
                can recall seeing the whole Whitbread fleet hauled out at Auckland
                part way thro' the race & nearly all boats had some form of stress
                crack at the keel base, one or two were severe!!
                Its also common to see the crack in boats due to other factors but
                rarely in such cases is the crack more than a hairline.
                Recommend you consult other SJ 24 owners or your local club if this is
                an option.
                Otherwise follow common sense:
                Check the materials in the crack vicinity for soundness.
                Dry the area thoroughly.
                Ease off the keel bolts & allow some separation to develop to aid
                inspection & drying.
                If all is relatively OK, reseal with a stiff epoxy filler material &
                draw up the keel bolts to within about 1 mm of contact, allow the
                epoxy to cure, trim excess epoxy, torque up bolts evenly & carefully
                to whatever you judge appropriate after advice (I don't know the joint
                details or number or diameter of bolts) but somewhere around 75 ft lbs
                would be a good starting point.

                Peter Owens

                -----Original Message-----
                From: dlev1956@... [mailto:dlev1956@...]
                Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2003 3:40 p.m.
                To: SJ-24@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [SJ-24] Keel bolt torque value


                I plan on hauling my 1973 SJ24 later this month and doing the bottom
                and am
                wondering how obvious keel wobble will be if I have it. Can you
                actually feel
                the wobble by wiggling that large mass? Or what test/method do you use
                to
                determine if you have a problem? My cabin sole feels solid, but I know
                that it's
                probably water logged, since the boat had been let go for a while
                before I
                bought it.
                Dennis


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &
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              • Bill Sims
                List, Per my post, the sole is not delaminated, and is not a foam/balsa sandwich. Must have been redone by PO many years ago, or was an experiment by the
                Message 7 of 11 , Dec 2, 2003
                  List,

                  Per my post, the sole is not delaminated, and is not a foam/balsa sandwich. Must have been redone by PO many years ago, or was an experiment by the Clarks, as the core is a white, rigid material resembling Microballoons in epoxy resin. Could not find any cracks or signs of movement in the bilge area.

                  And I stiffened the port side about 10 years ago using a technique described in the NACA newsletter. Basically it involved fitting a couple of ribs inside the port storage compartment.

                  My keel moved through an arc of about 3 or 4 inches when pressed hard from the side near the heel. Yesterday I rocked the boat (it's in the water) and put my hand on the different bolts to see if I could perceive movement relative to the hull joint, and to see if I could perceive any flexing of the hull or joint. Did discern---by touch--some very slight movement, especially with the center bolts. The hull/joint did not seem to flex at all. That is why I'm going to retorque the keel bolts.

                  Unless I hear otherwise will try torque wrench set at 90 foot-pounds this afternoon.

                  Bill Sims
                  San Juan 24 #703, Phantasm

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Dave Brezina
                  Hi All: I m wondering if at some time the non-balsa core between the hull liner and the hull was eliminated. I ve posed this question before and anyone who
                  Message 8 of 11 , Dec 2, 2003
                    Hi All:

                    I'm wondering if at some time the non-balsa core between the hull
                    liner and the hull was eliminated. I've posed this question before
                    and anyone who responded thought all the boats had the balsa spacers
                    between the hull liner and hull. I haven't tested this (drilling
                    holes in the bottom of the boat is best left to the three stooges) but
                    the white filler is exactly what Scorpion (1978) has in the fiberglass
                    deck beam in way of the mast support. Since I had some deck work to
                    do, and it being less three stooges to drill holes in the vertical
                    face of the beam overhead, I did have a look. The thing is entirely
                    filled.

                    Dave Brezina



                    --- In SJ-24@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Sims" <Bill-Sims@c...> wrote:
                    > List,
                    >
                    > Per my post, the sole is not delaminated, and is not a foam/balsa
                    sandwich. Must have been redone by PO many years ago, or was an
                    experiment by the Clarks, as the core is a white, rigid material
                    resembling Microballoons in epoxy resin. Could not find any cracks or
                    signs of movement in the bilge area.
                    >
                    > And I stiffened the port side about 10 years ago using a technique
                    described in the NACA newsletter. Basically it involved fitting a
                    couple of ribs inside the port storage compartment.
                    >
                    > My keel moved through an arc of about 3 or 4 inches when pressed
                    hard from the side near the heel. Yesterday I rocked the boat (it's
                    in the water) and put my hand on the different bolts to see if I could
                    perceive movement relative to the hull joint, and to see if I could
                    perceive any flexing of the hull or joint. Did discern---by
                    touch--some very slight movement, especially with the center bolts.
                    The hull/joint did not seem to flex at all. That is why I'm going to
                    retorque the keel bolts.
                    >
                    > Unless I hear otherwise will try torque wrench set at 90 foot-pounds
                    this afternoon.
                    >
                    > Bill Sims
                    > San Juan 24 #703, Phantasm
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • gc138@aol.com
                    Bill - Sounds like the stiffening has been addressed on your boat. Maybe you have found the problem in the loose bolts. Your mention og the wiggle in the bolt
                    Message 9 of 11 , Dec 2, 2003
                      Bill - Sounds like the stiffening has been addressed on your boat. Maybe you
                      have found the problem in the loose bolts. Your mention og the wiggle in the
                      bolt makes me wonder if years of wiggling may have enlarged the bolt holes, in
                      which case just tightening the bolts may not cure the wobble. Just a
                      thought.
                      George #18 "Spaghetti"


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • gc138@aol.com
                      Dave - if you are talking about the v-rib athwartships in the cabin overhead under the mast, I found the same thing. Also something I haven t heard of, my
                      Message 10 of 11 , Dec 2, 2003
                        Dave - if you are talking about the v-rib athwartships in the cabin overhead
                        under the mast, I found the same thing. Also something I haven't heard of, my
                        bilge was glassed over and filled completely with that same foam and I had to
                        chip it out to get to my keel bolts. I guessing the boat was built like this
                        since I acquired the '72 boat in '76 it was still fairly new and probably did
                        not have any kind remedial work done on it. I have always wondered what kind
                        of filling that was called. I think some kind of poured polyester foam.
                        George #18 "Spaghetti"


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Gil Lund
                        Group Note that the original balsa wood core does not extend to the keel bolt area. The bolt torque is not affected by its destruction. My boat has 1/2 -13
                        Message 11 of 11 , Dec 2, 2003
                          Group
                          Note that the original balsa wood core does not extend to the keel
                          bolt area. The bolt torque is not affected by its destruction.

                          My boat has 1/2"-13 Stainless Steel Keel Bolts. They have a non
                          lubricated assembly torque of 50 Ft.Lb (Frict Coff = .200)

                          The bolts were epoxied into the hull at the factory and just torquing
                          them will normally not solve any keel wobble problem. You will have
                          to remove the nuts and washers, set the keel straight, dry the holes
                          as best you can and re-inject them with epoxy that cures in a moist
                          atmosphere. Then you can retorque the nuts and call it a day. Not a
                          simple procedure.
                          Gil

                          --- In SJ-24@yahoogroups.com, "captwsims" <Bill-Sims@c...> wrote:
                          > I've forgotten what the torque is supposed to be...is it 90 foot-
                          > pounds? That's not a whole lot. Is there danger in overtorqueing
                          > the keel bolts, especially with the boat in the water? Last time
                          my
                          > boat was out it had a bit of keel wobble. I thought I'd do the
                          > standard rib thing, but found out my boat does not have the balsa
                          > cored sole. Rather, the space between the liner and hull is filled
                          > with something that is white, such as West System Microballoons.
                          > Perhaps the PO had already done the "fix". My boat (#703) was
                          built
                          > May '76.
                          >
                          > Bill Sims
                          > Mandeville, Louisiana
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