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RE: [SJ-24] Re: Tall Mast ?????

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  • DUKE & SUE JONES
    The specifications for the San Juan 24 in 1972 called for 150% headsail to achieve a rating of 18.0. My boat had 150% and an IOR rating 18.0. When the rule was
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 3, 2009
    • 0 Attachment

      The specifications for the San Juan 24 in 1972 called for 150% headsail to achieve a rating of 18.0. My boat had 150% and an IOR rating 18.0. When the rule was changed to be IOR mark 3 my rating changed to 17.2 that’s when the larger headsails showed up.

      When the SJ24 was no longer competitive in quarter ton, a one design class was established and it was decided to go with the larger headsail that was used on the majority of the race boats, and that’s where the sail size came from not Kirby’s original design.

      The sheet lead on the early boats where on the side deck not on the combing and cabin side. My 150% sheeted about 6 inches behind the bridge at the back of the cabin and my 155% sheets 10 inches back my 130% sheets 6 inches forward.

      Duke Jones

      Live Wire #1

       

       

       

      Original Message-----
      From: SJ-24@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SJ-24@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wormlund
      Sent:
      Monday, November 30, 2009 5:42 PM
      To: SJ-24@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [SJ-24] Re: Tall Mast ?????

       

       

      Duke
      When I bought Snappy in 1974 it came with the standard mast and a 170 head sail. The fleet one design rules changed in the 1970's to accomodate the midwests boats who got a PHRF brake by using it. Before that all one design boats used a 170. The original design by Kirby assumed a 170 #1. The primary genoa winch and main track set up is designed to sheet a 170. The 167 was a bad move for the sail inventory. It sheets right on the coaming and makes a 155 useless as a #2.
      Gil

      --- In SJ-24@yahoogroups. com, "DUKE & SUE JONES" <dukejsuej@. ..> wrote:

      >
      > Yes! In 1975 the IOR rating changed and the stock rigged SJ 24 rated 17.2
      > and the max rating for Quarter ton stayed at 18.0, some of the SJ 24's
      went
      > with larger headsails from 150% to (167%) or longer spinnaker poles and
      > larger spinnakers to get there rating back up as these could only be
      carried
      > for half of the course I thought a larger main sail might be better so I
      > built a fractional rig for Live Wire hull #1 and got my IOR rating back up
      > to 18.0 ft..
      >
      > I used the original headsail sizes and only raised the head of the
      mainsail
      > 34 inches.
      >
      > When small boat IOR (MORA) and the Quarter ton died, I only had PHRF to
      race
      > in and they eventually penalized me 16 seconds a mile over the other SJ24s
      > so I took the big rig down and put the stock rig back on.
      >
      > I sold the rig and mainsail to a SJ24 owner in different area and lost
      track
      > of it but I know it was on at leased three other boats.
      >
      > Duke Jones
      >
      > Live Wire SJ 24 #1
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: SJ-24@yahoogroups. com
      [mailto:SJ-24@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
      > gc138@...
      > Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 4:25 PM
      > To: SJ-24@yahoogroups. com
      > Subject: [SJ-24] Tall Mast ?????
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > While looking up Portsmouth numbers for the SJ24 at this site:
      >
      >
      >
      > http://www.ussailin
      > <
      href="http://www.ussailing.org/portsmouth/tables06/tables06off-3.asp">http://www.ussailin g.org/portsmouth /tables06/ tables06off- 3.asp>
      > g.org/portsmouth/ tables06/ tables06off- 3.asp
      >
      >
      >
      > I came across the entry for a tall mast SJ24 which has slightly different
      > numbers. Anyone know what that's about? I've never heard anyone talking
      > about a tall mast.
      >
      > George #18 "Spaghetti"
      >
      >
      >
      > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.84/2530 - Release Date: 11/27/09
      > 07:58:00
      >

      No virus found in this incoming message.
      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.87/2536 - Release Date: 11/30/09 07:31:00

    • wormlund
      Duke Did the first boats rated 18 IOR with a 150 have the same primary track and winch set up as the one design class we have today? My boat was built in
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 8, 2009
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        Duke

        Did the first boats rated 18 IOR with a 150 have the same primary track and winch set up as the "one design" class we have today?

        My boat was built in 1974 and we sheet our 150 way in front of the cockpit coaming. Sheeting the 150 from the aft genoa track would not work at all. Even the 164 has a sheeting point in front of the aft genoa track. My 170 however sheet right in the middle of the aft track.

        I was told by Dennis Clark that Kirby designed the boat with a 170 in mind when he laid out the sheeting points.

        gil

        --- In SJ-24@yahoogroups.com, "DUKE & SUE JONES" <dukejsuej@...> wrote:
        >
        > The specifications for the San Juan 24 in 1972 called for 150% headsail to
        > achieve a rating of 18.0. My boat had 150% and an IOR rating 18.0. When the
        > rule was changed to be IOR mark 3 my rating changed to 17.2 that's when the
        > larger headsails showed up.
        >
        > When the SJ24 was no longer competitive in quarter ton, a one design class
        > was established and it was decided to go with the larger headsail that was
        > used on the majority of the race boats, and that's where the sail size came
        > from not Kirby's original design.
        >
        > The sheet lead on the early boats where on the side deck not on the combing
        > and cabin side. My 150% sheeted about 6 inches behind the bridge at the back
        > of the cabin and my 155% sheets 10 inches back my 130% sheets 6 inches
        > forward.
        >
        > Duke Jones
        >
        > Live Wire #1
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Original Message-----
        > From: SJ-24@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SJ-24@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        > wormlund
        > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 5:42 PM
        > To: SJ-24@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [SJ-24] Re: Tall Mast ?????
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Duke
        > When I bought Snappy in 1974 it came with the standard mast and a 170 head
        > sail. The fleet one design rules changed in the 1970's to accomodate the
        > midwests boats who got a PHRF brake by using it. Before that all one design
        > boats used a 170. The original design by Kirby assumed a 170 #1. The primary
        > genoa winch and main track set up is designed to sheet a 170. The 167 was a
        > bad move for the sail inventory. It sheets right on the coaming and makes a
        > 155 useless as a #2.
        > Gil
        >
        > --- In SJ-24@yahoogroups. <mailto:SJ-24%40yahoogroups.com> com, "DUKE & SUE
        > JONES" <dukejsuej@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Yes! In 1975 the IOR rating changed and the stock rigged SJ 24 rated 17.2
        > > and the max rating for Quarter ton stayed at 18.0, some of the SJ 24's
        > went
        > > with larger headsails from 150% to (167%) or longer spinnaker poles and
        > > larger spinnakers to get there rating back up as these could only be
        > carried
        > > for half of the course I thought a larger main sail might be better so I
        > > built a fractional rig for Live Wire hull #1 and got my IOR rating back up
        > > to 18.0 ft..
        > >
        > > I used the original headsail sizes and only raised the head of the
        > mainsail
        > > 34 inches.
        > >
        > > When small boat IOR (MORA) and the Quarter ton died, I only had PHRF to
        > race
        > > in and they eventually penalized me 16 seconds a mile over the other SJ24s
        > > so I took the big rig down and put the stock rig back on.
        > >
        > > I sold the rig and mainsail to a SJ24 owner in different area and lost
        > track
        > > of it but I know it was on at leased three other boats.
        > >
        > > Duke Jones
        > >
        > > Live Wire SJ 24 #1
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: SJ-24@yahoogroups. <mailto:SJ-24%40yahoogroups.com> com
        > [mailto:SJ-24@yahoogroups. <mailto:SJ-24%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
        > Of
        > > gc138@
        > > Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 4:25 PM
        > > To: SJ-24@yahoogroups. <mailto:SJ-24%40yahoogroups.com> com
        > > Subject: [SJ-24] Tall Mast ?????
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > While looking up Portsmouth numbers for the SJ24 at this site:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > http://www.ussailin
        > > <http://www.ussailin
        > <http://www.ussailing.org/portsmouth/tables06/tables06off-3.asp>
        > g.org/portsmouth/tables06/tables06off-3.asp>
        > > g.org/portsmouth/tables06/tables06off-3.asp
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > I came across the entry for a tall mast SJ24 which has slightly different
        > > numbers. Anyone know what that's about? I've never heard anyone talking
        > > about a tall mast.
        > >
        > > George #18 "Spaghetti"
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        > > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.84/2530 - Release Date: 11/27/09
        > > 07:58:00
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.87/2536 - Release Date: 11/30/09
        > 07:31:00
        >
      • DUKE & SUE JONES
        Gill, Yes the 150% rated 18.0 under IOR mark III then (IOR mark III a) came along and the rating dropped. As far as I know the early boats that had the teak
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 10, 2009
        • 0 Attachment

          Gill, Yes the 150% rated 18.0 under IOR mark III then (IOR mark III a) came along and the rating dropped.

          As far as I know the early boats that had the teak toe rails had Genoa track on the deck outboard of the cockpit combing and cabin side (that leaked most of the time).the track wasn’t Tee track it was aluminum sail track that you couldn’t be sealed on a flat surface.

          When the first aluminum toe rail boats showed up, they had the Genoa track moved to the cockpit combing and cabin side, the winch location stayed the same (about in the middle of the land outboard of the cockpit combing aft).

          My 155% has a clew height of about 18 inches above the deck and sheets about 10 inches behind the cabin, the 150% had the same clew height and sheeted a little forward.

          The guys that went to 170% lowered the clew to about 6 inches off the deck and sheeted them in about the same place that I sheeted my 155%.

          When I quit sailing in Quarter Ton the HOT boats were 27 feet long and weighed 3000 lbs or less, had dagger boards and fractional rigs that were about 40 feet high, with an echo for an interior and sailed with a crew of 6 big guys.   

           

          -----Original Message-----
          From: SJ-24@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SJ-24@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wormlund
          Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 4:22 PM
          To: SJ-24@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [SJ-24] Re: Tall Mast ?????

           

           

          Duke

          Did the first boats rated 18 IOR with a 150 have the same primary track and winch set up as the "one design" class we have today?

          My boat was built in 1974 and we sheet our 150 way in front of the cockpit coaming. Sheeting the 150 from the aft genoa track would not work at all. Even the 164 has a sheeting point in front of the aft genoa track. My 170 however sheet right in the middle of the aft track.

          I was told by Dennis Clark that Kirby designed the boat with a 170 in mind when he laid out the sheeting points.

          gil

          --- In SJ-24@yahoogroups. com, "DUKE & SUE JONES" <dukejsuej@. ..> wrote:

          >
          > The specifications for the San Juan 24 in 1972 called for 150% headsail to
          > achieve a rating of 18.0. My boat had 150% and an IOR rating 18.0. When
          the
          > rule was changed to be IOR mark 3 my rating changed to 17.2 that's when
          the
          > larger headsails showed up.
          >
          > When the SJ24 was no longer competitive in quarter ton, a one design class
          > was established and it was decided to go with the larger headsail that was
          > used on the majority of the race boats, and that's where the sail size
          came
          > from not Kirby's original design.
          >
          > The sheet lead on the early boats where on the side deck not on the
          combing
          > and cabin side. My 150% sheeted about 6 inches behind the bridge at the
          back
          > of the cabin and my 155% sheets 10 inches back my 130% sheets 6 inches
          > forward.
          >
          > Duke Jones
          >
          > Live Wire #1
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Original Message-----
          > From: SJ-24@yahoogroups. com
          [mailto:SJ-24@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
          > wormlund
          > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 5:42 PM
          > To: SJ-24@yahoogroups. com
          > Subject: [SJ-24] Re: Tall Mast ?????
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Duke
          > When I bought Snappy in 1974 it came with the standard mast and a 170 head
          > sail. The fleet one design rules changed in the 1970's to accomodate the
          > midwests boats who got a PHRF brake by using it. Before that all one
          design
          > boats used a 170. The original design by Kirby assumed a 170 #1. The
          primary
          > genoa winch and main track set up is designed to sheet a 170. The 167 was
          a
          > bad move for the sail inventory. It sheets right on the coaming and makes
          a
          > 155 useless as a #2.
          > Gil
          >
          > --- In SJ-24@yahoogroups. <mailto:SJ-24% 40yahoogroups. com>
          com, "DUKE & SUE
          > JONES" <dukejsuej@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Yes! In 1975 the IOR rating changed and the stock rigged SJ 24 rated
          17.2
          > > and the max rating for Quarter ton stayed at 18.0, some of the SJ
          24's
          > went
          > > with larger headsails from 150% to (167%) or longer spinnaker poles
          and
          > > larger spinnakers to get there rating back up as these could only be
          > carried
          > > for half of the course I thought a larger main sail might be better
          so I
          > > built a fractional rig for Live Wire hull #1 and got my IOR rating
          back up
          > > to 18.0 ft..
          > >
          > > I used the original headsail sizes and only raised the head of the
          > mainsail
          > > 34 inches.
          > >
          > > When small boat IOR (MORA) and the Quarter ton died, I only had PHRF
          to
          > race
          > > in and they eventually penalized me 16 seconds a mile over the other
          SJ24s
          > > so I took the big rig down and put the stock rig back on.
          > >
          > > I sold the rig and mainsail to a SJ24 owner in different area and
          lost
          > track
          > > of it but I know it was on at leased three other boats.
          > >
          > > Duke Jones
          > >
          > > Live Wire SJ 24 #1
          > >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: SJ-24@yahoogroups. <mailto:SJ-24% 40yahoogroups. com>
          com
          > [mailto:SJ-24@ yahoogroups. <mailto:SJ-24% 40yahoogroups. com>
          com] On Behalf
          > Of
          > > gc138@
          > > Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 4:25 PM
          > > To: SJ-24@yahoogroups. <mailto:SJ-24% 40yahoogroups. com>
          com
          > > Subject: [SJ-24] Tall Mast ?????
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > While looking up Portsmouth numbers for the SJ24 at this site:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > http://www.ussailin
          > > <http://www.ussailin
          > <
          href="http://www.ussailing.org/portsmouth/tables06/tables06off-3.asp">http://www.ussailin g.org/portsmouth /tables06/ tables06off- 3.asp>
          > g.org/portsmouth/ tables06/ tables06off- 3.asp>
          > > g.org/portsmouth/ tables06/ tables06off- 3.asp
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > I came across the entry for a tall mast SJ24 which has slightly
          different
          > > numbers. Anyone know what that's about? I've never heard anyone
          talking
          > > about a tall mast.
          > >
          > > George #18 "Spaghetti"
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > No virus found in this incoming message.
          > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          > > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.84/2530 - Release Date:
          11/27/09
          > > 07:58:00
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > No virus found in this incoming message.
          > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.87/2536 - Release Date: 11/30/09
          > 07:31:00
          >

          No virus found in this incoming message.
          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.98/2551 - Release Date: 12/07/09 19:34:00

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