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Re: [SJ-24] Re: Cabin top core repairs

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  • David Michaels
    Alec - that s a great web link. Wished I had found it years ago! ... From: Alec Pollak Subject: [SJ-24] Re: Cabin top core repairs
    Message 1 of 19 , May 1, 2009
      Alec - that's a great web link. Wished I had found it years ago!

      --- On Thu, 4/30/09, Alec Pollak <suntoptracker@...> wrote:

      From: Alec Pollak <suntoptracker@...>
      Subject: [SJ-24] Re: Cabin top core repairs
      To: SJ-24@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 2:12 PM


      --- In SJ-24@yahoogroups. com, "Alec Pollak" <suntoptracker@ ...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In SJ-24@yahoogroups. com, David Michaels skibumdav@ wrote:
      >
      > take a look at the following site regarding fbg deck repair
      >
      > http://rotdoctor. com/glass/ GLrotrepair. html#deck
      >
      > smooth sailing
      >
      > SJ24 #34 Pleasant Harbor, WA
      >
      >
      > >
      > > Also on your air gaps - At the curve of the cabin top to bulk head
      > junction - a sprayed in resin foam was used. How far it goes on each
      > boat is a guess. It could be simply filled with no problems if the
      > balsanext to it was fixed.
      > > I have some pictures of cross sections of a SJ 24 I cut up to show
      the
      > core and construction. Several pics show the black ooze on the head
      > liner.
      > > www.pavementsailor. blogspot. com
      > >
      > > --- On Wed, 4/29/09, michael1312001 michael98277@ wrote:
      > >
      > > From: michael1312001 michael98277@
      > > Subject: [SJ-24] Cabin top core repairs
      > > To: SJ-24@yahoogroups. com
      > > Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 3:02 AM
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Gosh, I am dreading asking this. I recently purchased #66, and the
      > poor girl had been neglected for 10 years. I pulled all the frozen
      > winches and cleaned them out, only to find that the cabin top is full
      of
      > moisture. I put up a boom tent, left the holes uncovered, and put a
      > serious heater in the cabin for the last week. Its effect has been
      > nominal. This evening I used a cut off Allen wrench in a drill to bore
      > out the interior of the winch mounting holes. Significant amounts of
      wet
      > fiber came out of every hole. When the holes clogged with fiber, I
      blew
      > the crud out myself. In doing so I discovered that there are many air
      > gaps in the core between the holes. You can plug a hole with your
      finger
      > on one side, blow into it in the other, and hear the air rushing out
      > another (but sometimes you hear small bubbling sounds). Structurally,
      > the deck does not flex beyond normal parameters. It seems the core is
      > mush- at least where the winches were. I
      > > can continue to dry it out with heaters and some quality time with a
      > heat gun, but I'm thinking that the amount of acceptable moisture is
      > essentially no moisture. Am I being to uptight in thinking I have to
      > pass on this fantastic upcoming race, make Swiss cheese of my cabin
      top
      > for all areas that aren't dry, and give her plenty of time to dry out?
      > And am I right to think I should air her out for a painful month or
      so,
      > with a heater below and a boom tent overhead, passing by these really
      > nice sailing days here in Washington state? Go ahead, confirm my worst
      > fears and tell me it is so. I'm desperate for an alternative that lets
      > me race within a couple of weeks.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Michael
      > >
      > > #66, formerly Sasquatch, soon to be Maria something or something
      Maria
      > >
      >


    • Alec Pollak
      ... available under customer projects including a really neat home made shop vac attachment made from pvc pipe and plastic tubing that pulls mosture out or
      Message 2 of 19 , May 1, 2009
        --- In SJ-24@yahoogroups.com, David Michaels <skibumdav@...> wrote:
        >it's interesting to read through the full web site. a lot more info is
        available under "customer projects" including a really neat home made
        shop vac attachment made from pvc pipe and plastic tubing that pulls
        mosture out or multiple small holes drilled in the deck.

        there is also a good section on maintaining fbg boats. its informative
        even if you don't have a core problem.

        alec


        > Alec - that's a great web link. Wished I had found it years ago!
        >
        > --- On Thu, 4/30/09, Alec Pollak suntoptracker@... wrote:
        >
        > From: Alec Pollak suntoptracker@...
        > Subject: [SJ-24] Re: Cabin top core repairs
        > To: SJ-24@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 2:12 PM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In SJ-24@yahoogroups. com, "Alec Pollak" <suntoptracker@ ...>
        wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > --- In SJ-24@yahoogroups. com, David Michaels skibumdav@ wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > > take a look at the following site regarding fbg deck repair
        >
        > >
        >
        > > http://rotdoctor. com/glass/ GLrotrepair. html#deck
        >
        > >
        >
        > > smooth sailing
        >
        > >
        >
        > > SJ24 #34 Pleasant Harbor, WA
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > > Also on your air gaps - At the curve of the cabin top to bulk head
        >
        > > junction - a sprayed in resin foam was used. How far it goes on each
        >
        > > boat is a guess. It could be simply filled with no problems if the
        >
        > > balsanext to it was fixed.
        >
        > > > I have some pictures of cross sections of a SJ 24 I cut up to show
        >
        > the
        >
        > > core and construction. Several pics show the black ooze on the head
        >
        > > liner.
        >
        > > > www.pavementsailor. blogspot. com
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > > --- On Wed, 4/29/09, michael1312001 michael98277@ wrote:
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > > From: michael1312001 michael98277@
        >
        > > > Subject: [SJ-24] Cabin top core repairs
        >
        > > > To: SJ-24@yahoogroups. com
        >
        > > > Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 3:02 AM
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > > Gosh, I am dreading asking this. I recently purchased #66, and the
        >
        > > poor girl had been neglected for 10 years. I pulled all the frozen
        >
        > > winches and cleaned them out, only to find that the cabin top is
        full
        >
        > of
        >
        > > moisture. I put up a boom tent, left the holes uncovered, and put a
        >
        > > serious heater in the cabin for the last week. Its effect has been
        >
        > > nominal. This evening I used a cut off Allen wrench in a drill to
        bore
        >
        > > out the interior of the winch mounting holes. Significant amounts of
        >
        > wet
        >
        > > fiber came out of every hole. When the holes clogged with fiber, I
        >
        > blew
        >
        > > the crud out myself. In doing so I discovered that there are many
        air
        >
        > > gaps in the core between the holes. You can plug a hole with your
        >
        > finger
        >
        > > on one side, blow into it in the other, and hear the air rushing out
        >
        > > another (but sometimes you hear small bubbling sounds).
        Structurally,
        >
        > > the deck does not flex beyond normal parameters. It seems the core
        is
        >
        > > mush- at least where the winches were. I
        >
        > > > can continue to dry it out with heaters and some quality time with
        a
        >
        > > heat gun, but I'm thinking that the amount of acceptable moisture is
        >
        > > essentially no moisture. Am I being to uptight in thinking I have to
        >
        > > pass on this fantastic upcoming race, make Swiss cheese of my cabin
        >
        > top
        >
        > > for all areas that aren't dry, and give her plenty of time to dry
        out?
        >
        > > And am I right to think I should air her out for a painful month or
        >
        > so,
        >
        > > with a heater below and a boom tent overhead, passing by these
        really
        >
        > > nice sailing days here in Washington state? Go ahead, confirm my
        worst
        >
        > > fears and tell me it is so. I'm desperate for an alternative that
        lets
        >
        > > me race within a couple of weeks.
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > > Michael
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > > #66, formerly Sasquatch, soon to be Maria something or something
        >
        > Maria
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
      • Peter Sanburn
        I am looking for a relatively new main for my SJ24. Anyone have any thoughts? Also, anyone have long term experience with a soft bottom? We approaching 9 years
        Message 3 of 19 , May 4, 2009
          I am looking for a relatively new main for my SJ24. Anyone have any thoughts?
           
          Also, anyone have long term experience with a soft bottom? We approaching 9 years with one and wonder when we should paint it.
           
          Hmm - new sails, painted bottom, limited budget. What's a sailor to do?
           
          Thanks,

          Peter S
          Scuttle
          Bitterend Marina
          Bayview, Id
           
           
           


           
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        • GC138
          Peter - what do you mean by soft bottom ? George #18 Spaghetti In a message dated 05/04/09 17:01:48 Central Daylight Time, psanburn@hotmail.com writes: Also,
          Message 4 of 19 , May 4, 2009
            Peter - what do you mean by "soft bottom"?
            George #18 Spaghetti
             
             
             
            In a message dated 05/04/09 17:01:48 Central Daylight Time, psanburn@... writes:
            Also, anyone have long term experience with a soft bottom? We approaching 9 years with one and wonder when we should paint it.
             
          • Peter Sanburn
            George, That s what someone said it was at our local marina. The bottom paint seems to be soft and what I mean by that, if rubbed it leaves a cloud of the
            Message 5 of 19 , May 7, 2009
              George,
              That's what someone said it was at our local marina. The bottom paint seems to be soft and what I mean by that, if rubbed it leaves a cloud of the paint color in the water - apparently intentionally. I was told it was a common technique used about 8-10 years ago.
               
              Peter
               

              To: SJ-24@yahoogroups.com
              From: gc138@...
              Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 17:20:57 -0500
              Subject: Re: [SJ-24] Looking for a new Main



              Peter - what do you mean by "soft bottom"?
              George #18 Spaghetti
               
               
               
              In a message dated 05/04/09 17:01:48 Central Daylight Time, psanburn@hotmail. com writes:
              Also, anyone have long term experience with a soft bottom? We approaching 9 years with one and wonder when we should paint it.
               




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            • Peter Sanburn
              George, I just looked into soft bottom paint. It is used to prevent build up on the hull and sloughs off on purpose. Here is a link that describes it.
              Message 6 of 19 , May 7, 2009
                George,
                I just looked into soft bottom paint. It is used to prevent build up on the hull and sloughs off on purpose.
                 
                Here is a link that describes it.  http://www.marinepainting.net/anti-fouling-bottom-paint.html Go towards the bottom of page.
                 
                Peter
                 

                To: SJ-24@yahoogroups.com
                From: gc138@...
                Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 17:20:57 -0500
                Subject: Re: [SJ-24] Looking for a new Main



                Peter - what do you mean by "soft bottom"?
                George #18 Spaghetti
                 
                 
                 
                In a message dated 05/04/09 17:01:48 Central Daylight Time, psanburn@hotmail. com writes:
                Also, anyone have long term experience with a soft bottom? We approaching 9 years with one and wonder when we should paint it.
                 




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              • michael1312001
                Peter, I m a newby in the boating world, but it sounds like you simply have an ablative paint- very common even today. My understanding is that they typically
                Message 7 of 19 , May 7, 2009
                  Peter,

                  I'm a newby in the boating world, but it sounds like you simply have an ablative paint- very common even today. My understanding is that they typically last 2 or 3 years before needing replacement, depending on conditions. It is supposed to slough off like that so that when mussels and barnacles try to attache themselves they cannot. I have the same thing on my SJ 24. I'm told that when you have an ablative paint you normally stay with it, otherwise you'd have to sand it all off before repainting with something different.

                  Michael

                  --- In SJ-24@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sanburn <psanburn@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > George,
                  >
                  > That's what someone said it was at our local marina. The bottom paint seems to be soft and what I mean by that, if rubbed it leaves a cloud of the paint color in the water - apparently intentionally. I was told it was a common technique used about 8-10 years ago.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Peter
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To: SJ-24@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: gc138@...
                  > Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 17:20:57 -0500
                  > Subject: Re: [SJ-24] Looking for a new Main
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Peter - what do you mean by "soft bottom"?
                  > George #18 Spaghetti
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > In a message dated 05/04/09 17:01:48 Central Daylight Time, psanburn@... writes:
                  >
                  > Also, anyone have long term experience with a soft bottom? We approaching 9 years with one and wonder when we should paint it.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > _________________________________________________________________
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                • GC138
                  Peter - You found your own answer - good. Whoever told you that was old technology didn t know what they were talking about. You always have to double check
                  Message 8 of 19 , May 7, 2009
                    Peter - You found your own answer - good. Whoever told you that was old technology didn't know what they were talking about. You always have to double check free advice  (Mine too). Interluxr's best paint is sloughing or "ablative". Micron Extra - good stuff. The other paints are also two part epoxies but they dry hard.
                    When you redo your bottom you might look into Micron (interlux). When you apply new bottom paint, usually you need to know what is on there unless you plan to strip it off. However, Micron will go over most paints. You would call and check first but I believe that is correct. 
                    If your paint is still sloughing, it may still have enough thickness left on to be effective. The thing about ablatives is that the boat has to  move through the water for it to slough. You may see another color through the bottom paint when it gets real thin - or - it will totally be losing effectiveness against growth.
                    George #18 Spaghetti
                     
                     
                     
                    In a message dated 05/07/09 10:46:56 Central Daylight Time, psanburn@... writes:

                    George,
                    That's what someone said it was at our local marina. The bottom paint seems to be soft and what I mean by that, if rubbed it leaves a cloud of the paint color in the water - apparently intentionally. I was told it was a common technique used about 8-10 years ago.
                     
                    Peter
                     


                    To: SJ-24@yahoogroups. com
                    From: gc138@...
                    Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 17:20:57 -0500
                    Subject: Re: [SJ-24] Looking for a new Main



                    Peter - what do you mean by "soft bottom"?
                    George #18 Spaghetti
                     
                     
                     
                    In a message dated 05/04/09 17:01:48 Central Daylight Time, psanburn@hotmail. com writes:
                    Also, anyone have long term experience with a soft bottom? We approaching 9 years with one and wonder when we should paint it.
                     




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                  • chuckskewessail
                    ... Contact me at Chuck@UllmanSailsSD.com you may like the price of a new main.
                    Message 9 of 19 , May 8, 2009
                      --- In SJ-24@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sanburn <psanburn@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > I am looking for a relatively new main for my SJ24. Anyone have any thoughts?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Also, anyone have long term experience with a soft bottom? We approaching 9 years with one and wonder when we should paint it.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Hmm - new sails, painted bottom, limited budget. What's a sailor to do?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      >
                      >
                      > Peter S
                      >
                      > Scuttle
                      >
                      > Bitterend Marina
                      >
                      > Bayview, Id
                      >
                      >
                      > Peter,
                      Contact me at Chuck@... you may like the price of a new main.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                    • Tom
                      Peter, I ve rigged all my boats with Ullman Sails which I purchased through Chuck Skewes. He is extremely knowledgable, especially with the SJ24. I had mine
                      Message 10 of 19 , May 11, 2009
                        Peter,

                        I've rigged all my boats with Ullman Sails which I purchased through Chuck Skewes. He is extremely knowledgable, especially with the SJ24. I had mine totally outfitted with a Ullman loose footed main, 100 mylar blade with battens, 135 kevlar genoe, 153 mylar, .75 spinnaker with dousing sock. The service and quality are untouchable. I sold the boat, she was unbelievably fast, and am now in the process of out fitting a SJ 34.



                        --- In SJ-24@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sanburn <psanburn@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > I am looking for a relatively new main for my SJ24. Anyone have any thoughts?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Also, anyone have long term experience with a soft bottom? We approaching 9 years with one and wonder when we should paint it.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Hmm - new sails, painted bottom, limited budget. What's a sailor to do?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        >
                        >
                        > Peter S
                        >
                        > Scuttle
                        >
                        > Bitterend Marina
                        >
                        > Bayview, Id
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Recent Activity
                        >
                        >
                        > 2
                        > New MembersVisit Your Group
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! News
                        > Get it all here
                        >
                        > Breaking news to
                        >
                        > entertainment news
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Finance
                        > It's Now Personal
                        >
                        > Guides, news,
                        >
                        > advice & more.
                        >
                        >
                        > Y! Groups blog
                        > the best source
                        >
                        > for the latest
                        >
                        > scoop on Groups.
                        >
                        > .
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > _________________________________________________________________
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                      • Peter Sanburn
                        Thanks for the great info George. We made the call to buy a new main this year and paint the bottom next year. Happy Sailing Peter To: SJ-24@yahoogroups.com
                        Message 11 of 19 , May 13, 2009
                          Thanks for the great info George.
                           
                          We made the call to buy a new main this year and paint the bottom next year.
                           
                          Happy Sailing
                          Peter
                           

                          To: SJ-24@yahoogroups.com
                          From: gc138@...
                          Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 11:48:33 -0500
                          Subject: Re: [SJ-24] Looking for a new Main



                          Peter - You found your own answer - good. Whoever told you that was old technology didn't know what they were talking about. You always have to double check free advice  (Mine too). Interluxr's best paint is sloughing or "ablative". Micron Extra - good stuff. The other paints are also two part epoxies but they dry hard.
                          When you redo your bottom you might look into Micron (interlux). When you apply new bottom paint, usually you need to know what is on there unless you plan to strip it off. However, Micron will go over most paints. You would call and check first but I believe that is correct. 
                          If your paint is still sloughing, it may still have enough thickness left on to be effective. The thing about ablatives is that the boat has to  move through the water for it to slough. You may see another color through the bottom paint when it gets real thin - or - it will totally be losing effectiveness against growth.
                          George #18 Spaghetti
                           
                           
                           
                          In a message dated 05/07/09 10:46:56 Central Daylight Time, psanburn@hotmail. com writes:

                          George,
                          That's what someone said it was at our local marina. The bottom paint seems to be soft and what I mean by that, if rubbed it leaves a cloud of the paint color in the water - apparently intentionally. I was told it was a common technique used about 8-10 years ago.
                           
                          Peter
                           


                          To: SJ-24@yahoogroups. com
                          From: gc138@...
                          Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 17:20:57 -0500
                          Subject: Re: [SJ-24] Looking for a new Main



                          Peter - what do you mean by "soft bottom"?
                          George #18 Spaghetti
                           
                           
                           
                          In a message dated 05/04/09 17:01:48 Central Daylight Time, psanburn@hotmail. com writes:
                          Also, anyone have long term experience with a soft bottom? We approaching 9 years with one and wonder when we should paint it.
                           





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                        • Peter Sanburn
                          Thanks Tom. Godd luck with your SJ 34. Peter To: SJ-24@yahoogroups.com From: copperdeco@yahoo.com Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 17:17:18 +0000 Subject: [SJ-24] Re:
                          Message 12 of 19 , May 13, 2009
                            Thanks Tom.
                             
                            Godd luck with your SJ 34.
                             
                            Peter
                             

                            To: SJ-24@yahoogroups.com
                            From: copperdeco@...
                            Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 17:17:18 +0000
                            Subject: [SJ-24] Re: Looking for a new Main




                            Peter,

                            I've rigged all my boats with Ullman Sails which I purchased through Chuck Skewes. He is extremely knowledgable, especially with the SJ24. I had mine totally outfitted with a Ullman loose footed main, 100 mylar blade with battens, 135 kevlar genoe, 153 mylar, .75 spinnaker with dousing sock. The service and quality are untouchable. I sold the boat, she was unbelievably fast, and am now in the process of out fitting a SJ 34.

                            --- In SJ-24@yahoogroups. com, Peter Sanburn <psanburn@.. .> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > I am looking for a relatively new main for my SJ24. Anyone have any thoughts?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Also, anyone have long term experience with a soft bottom? We approaching 9 years with one and wonder when we should paint it.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Hmm - new sails, painted bottom, limited budget. What's a sailor to do?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Thanks,
                            >
                            >
                            > Peter S
                            >
                            > Scuttle
                            >
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